It's funny, I believe porn is the cause for both these extremes.

It creates acceptance for jackhammer sex while also making guys thirsty.

Tyler Durden's secret society concept in full effect. You are either in or out. The castle walls get higher everyday.

(02-02-2014 04:54 AM)Sugar Wrote:  ....but the truth is most guys don't approach, and the ones who do usually have to drunk.

The truth is 98% + don't approach, and that is the big secret.

99% never speak.

(02-03-2014 10:55 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(02-02-2014 04:54 AM)Sugar Wrote:  ....but the truth is most guys don't approach, and the ones who do usually have to drunk.

The truth is 98% + don't approach, and that is the big secret.

99% never speak.

that simply is not true.

(02-03-2014 10:22 AM)soup Wrote:  Tyler Durden's secret society concept in full effect. You are either in or out. The castle walls get higher everyday.

One of the most brilliant posts never circulated around the manosphere. RSD haters are missing out on some experience talking from that man.

(02-02-2014 04:08 AM)Akula Wrote:  

(02-01-2014 10:58 PM)Vaun Wrote:  Feminized educational system. An extremely safe and coddled existence free of war and poverty in the West. No exposure to older WW2 generation men, who were basically assholes and hard as hell to work for, but taught work ethic and integrity. Being content with having/accomplishing very little. Video games and 40 ounce mountain dew. I dont know, I'd like to blame feminism, but a lot of men are just not stepping up.

It's probably 95% Feminism / 5% 'men not stepping up' but let's not get too far down that last little conceit. Western society is absolutely f*cked up and gender roles & heterosexuality are under attack by the gay lobby and mainstream culture. They basically want everyone to 'experiment' and be less male or female. For most people that goes against nature / biology and the results are creating hordes of uber-beta feminized guys and all these illogical, misandrist 'Feminist' drones...and let's not forget how divorce laws and marriage have made marriage a very risky proposition whereby women hold all the cards so even in a supposedly 'solid relationship founded on love' you've got no guarantees (as a man that is, for women they hit the lottery).

It's not guys not "stepping up", it's the fact that so many men have been beaten down. In addition to all the other ways the system is grinding men down, think about this - In previous eras, people got paired off young, and grew confident leading families their own way. There was no giant split between the alpha players and hordes of betas. Those same "regular guys" are now living lives of sloppy seconds, rejections and fatties till 30. This can't help but put holes in their soul. You can't just instantly rebound into a confident alpha after so many years of being beaten down, even when the tide begins to turn.

The "where have all the good men gone" does have some merit. Those confident, regular working guys are now a "lost generation". They've been wiped out like we had a major war. We had a war, but it was a war on men.

You know what makes me laugh at the guys my age is that they're beyond hope. They think their looks are the only thing that will get them by, and that girls will randomly approach them out of nowhere just because they look decent. I've also had guys brag to me about how hot their 5/10 girlfriends are instead of aiming for better. The second they get laid(if they ever do), they continue to mouth off and brag about getting laid in front of everyone like it's some damn accomplishment. If you even approach girls(which 99% of guys don't do usually) you'll be miles ahead of most anyone. The lack of a pair between their legs is what pisses me off and laugh my ass off the next second. I'll just keep sitting their enjoying my hedonistic self.

(02-03-2014 08:25 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  It's not guys not "stepping up", it's the fact that so many men have been beaten down. In addition to all the other ways the system is grinding men down, think about this - In previous eras, people got paired off young, and grew confident leading families their own way. There was no giant split between the alpha players and hordes of betas. Those same "regular guys" are now living lives of sloppy seconds, rejections and fatties till 30. This can't help but put holes in their soul. You can't just instantly rebound into a confident alpha after so many years of being beaten down, even when the tide begins to turn.

The "where have all the good men gone" does have some merit. Those confident, regular working guys are now a "lost generation". They've been wiped out like we had a major war. We had a war, but it was a war on men.

Exactly! Men who have grown up in the past 40 years or so have been told how much of a piece of shit they are by Americunts for their entire lives. What rational person would continue to play when the deck is stacked against them?

This has already been covered by a well known manosphere writer:

Quote:She was somewhat surprised at my response. She said, "so they just give up? They don't go out anymore? Don't they want to find somebody? Anybody?!"

"Yeah, more or less."

"That's crazy! How do they ever expect to find anybody?"

I replied, "Well...they don't."

Regardless, the point was her reaction surprised me in return to see this was that shocking of a revelation to her. I always thought it was kind of common knowledge, men do indeed give up after a while, but apparently it's not. So allow me to explain.

...

But what ultimately results in the decision to exit the market is more of an economic decision. It is the realization that as you have less and less remaining life you have to make surer and surer bets as to how to spend your time. It's no different than switching from equities to bonds as you approach retirement. Ergo, whereas when you were 18 you would stay at a party all night in the hopes of getting a girl's phone number, when you're 25 you start to think about working instead of partying, and by the time you're 30, you rarely go to clubs, dance halls, bars opting instead to play video games at home or read a book or put some more hours in at the office.

The reason is the expected rate of return of your precious, finite, and perpetually dwindling time. If you go out, hot as you may be when you're 18, you have little to no control over succeeding in getting a girl's number or a date. And as experience will tell you it's a 1/20 shot you will succeed, and that's assuming you have good game. All in all, I would estimate most 20 somethings waste an equivalent to 4 full years of full time work chasing girls to relatively little avail. A significant opportunity cost.

http://captaincapitalism.blogspot.com/20...arket.html

I'm 20 at the moment and know a lot of dudes who won't/don't go out. These aren't omega brony guys either. Some of them play college ball, and the others are good looking and witty men. When it comes to going out and meeting women they have zero interest.

While all the guys here are into game, it's kind of our unifying hobby, we still often question whether or not it's worth all the effort. There are more than a few threads about calling it quits and several manosphere guys have grown tired of dealing with girls, choosing to close shop instead. We complain, have trouble, and lose motivation and this is our activity.

For the average guy, who doesn't want to put in all the hours, getting laid isn't worth it.

Imagine just being a regular dude who goes to the gym and has a good job. You talk to girls and they don't just shoot you down, they then try and mock you. You do the online dating thing and you're greeted with snark and disrespect. Eventually that Pornhub archive, XBox One, and Netflix collection is going to look a lot better than heading to the club and getting blown out.

Eventually whatever "skills" you may have had will just atrophy and you'll lose motivation to even take care of yourself.

Good thread, some great posts..
Although some of the stuff i read here really depresses me. I'm not knocking anyone here, it's all the truth. As Bacchus said:

(02-01-2014 10:13 PM)Bacchus Wrote:  I actually can understand the thirst. Sympathize with it- no. But I know where's it coming from.

But i'm with the guys saying Men aren't stepping up.
Yes men may have been beaten down, yes the deck may be stacked. But it's the only fucking deck we get. This isn't Vegas, this is life. What's the alternative..?

Shit i understand how much it sucks ass to be rejected over and over. But fucking hell... giving up and becoming a total herb isn't the answer. I have no sympathy for any man who gives up because its 'just too hard to find a decent girl'. None at all. That's worryingly close to using the feminazi logic of 'why the world is wrong and i'm right, so i'm not going to change'.

There's only one person in charge of your life, and thats yourself. Fuck social conditioning, fuck equal opportunities, fuck INequal opportunities...
All that counts is what you do for yourself. These men have to stop blaming others and take control back for themselves. No matter what it takes. No matter how hard it is, or how unfair it seems. THAT is the first step back towards a balanced world.
And more importantly how you get all the porno sex you could ever need...

I believe lack of work ethic and the 'instant results' culture also has something to do with this.

Most guys fail because they don't put in any effort, quitting before they achieve results. Their egos also hold them back. They believe by simply existing that they deserve a hot girl. It's not much different than girls with their laundry list of qualities they want in a guy.

I take a look and I see a guy who doesn't work out, dresses like crap, and never approaches. Over the years the women around them and even guy friends told them 'you're fine just the way you are! people will like you for you.' But that advice is bullshit.

When you change and improve, a lot of people want you to fail, friends included. Unintentionally you give them a giant fuck you as you go and make things happen, while they rationalize their laziness. Wait a while and jealously ensues.

I also believe that hardcore game and constant self-improvement are not necessarily for everyone. It takes an inner drive and commitment that's shaped by previous life experiences, that many have not had. You really have to have a strong 'why' or you're going to give up. It's different for every guy, but for the guys who started in this world at the bottom, we work like hell at everything to make sure we never go back to where we came from.

@Neo
I personally disagree with that lack of motivation to not improve part. Many of these men are fine with waiting and putting in the effort for their girlfriends, for that gym body, or for those Straight As, but when it comes down to changing their attitude or meeting new people/approaching they are the sorriest people to have ever do it. My nerdy Asian friends are more than happy to work for that A or my muscle head friends for that swole body or even these white knight kids I know pleasing their 4s or 5s of girlfriends(they go all out), but when it comes to things out of their comfort zone bam! they can't do shit.

(02-01-2014 09:01 PM)Thesoloist Wrote:  

(02-01-2014 08:16 PM)Valhalla Wrote:  Easiest it's ever been to get porno sex [for the top 20%] yet guys are the thirstiest

So much truth

If you're one of the top guys it's easy money, lot of the thirst comes from men not having self-respect and putting the pussy on a pedestal. The feminist machine is strong

In his Manosphere Radio interview Good Looking Loser talked about "being above average." It's not that hard to become above average in a few categories - get fit, get decent clothes, read some books, learn a few openers and ask for the number on every approach. Then you're much much more likely to get slotted into the "easy" category rather than the "thirsty" category. Probably 80% of your success with women happens before you open your mouth - "left of boom" as they say in the service.

(02-01-2014 08:16 PM)Valhalla Wrote:  Easiest it's ever been to get porno sex [for the top 20%] yet guys are the thirstiest

Isn't there some 80/20 Rule?

20% of guys are banging 80% of woman

Yes, about 12 years ago me and a buddy noted the 80/20 rule. But before we could unravel the analogue we needed we got side tracked by booze, looking for the one (yeah we still for a time got hung up on romance) to our detriment, and then finishing up school and career searching. I think this is a similar process most men naturally go through- one college buddy turned into a complete player after being a good christian boy and no having sex in college, what dispelled his delusions was a born again virgin gf who tried /did screw all his friends.

What helps men get over boyish notions of love is lack of guidence and trust in older men. My friends and I are older millenials, so our fathers were either absent (in my case) or beat down baby boomer beta providers. So evn if a sincerely mentor comes along a boy will have problems putting complete faith in his advice. I hate to think of the crap these younger millenials are being fed from their Gen X parents.

In my studies of past cultures and societies I came across something of answer. Remember Tsar Nicholas, last emperor of Russia? When he was a young man, the older men of the family and court tried to get him to engage in daliences with a mistress (in his case a ballerina) but he had silly notions of being faithful and in love with the German princess who was betrothed to him (blame 19th century romanticism and Queen Victoria who all the royal families were related to) so he wouldn't take on some side poon like his elders wanted.

What was the result? He was so beta whipped by his wife and sentimentalism that when his wife brought Rasputin into the court and his scandals spread shaking faith in the Tsar, Nicholas didn't have the spine to put his wife in line and kick out Rasputin. The other contributing factor was the heir apparent's hemophilia (another gift from Queen Victoria) hich Rasputin was able to control. But granted if he wasn't so whipped he could have evqaluated the situation like a man and just kept putting his seed in his wife to produce another son in case the heir did die.

In the end his weakness cost him the Russian Empire, and the lives of his family.

(02-04-2014 07:16 PM)Moreless Wrote:  

(02-01-2014 08:16 PM)Valhalla Wrote:  Easiest it's ever been to get porno sex [for the top 20%] yet guys are the thirstiest

Isn't there some 80/20 Rule?

20% of guys are banging 80% of woman

op talent

80/20 rule is long gone. Now it's the top 2% murdering the top talent 98% of the time. Society has changed a lot.

Our culture has never been more sexualized, yet its never been harder for the average chode faggot to get a cute, feminine girlfriend (which is what most of them actually want, not a string of one night stands). Hence why the average guy is so fucked up these days.

Chris Rock talked about this somewhere. When crack hit the ghetto, there'd be girls who were virgins one month and doing gangbangs for drugs the next. A lot of the negative attitudes about women seen in gangster rap, come from these guys watching girls become whores for drugs. I feel like the cell phone, social media, and readily accessible porn has had the same effect on white america. Now we can see the girl next door getting fucked and doing porn, whereas before the fantasy was unbroken.

Let it all fall apart. The girls will start hitting the wall en masse, and the guys will start looking at foreign prospects. I say let it all break down, and watch the girls come running back to being submissive. When that happens we'll have done our jobs.

Also I kind of disagree with your opinion on Tsar Nicholas II. I think he was politically inept at ruling, but an alpha at heart. His wife inspired the alpha in him by telling him to man up and run the kingdom even though he was disliked as well as taking charge of the troops himself(both of which I find courageous). He would have been a great ruler in times of peace, but instead he was inept in the chaotic times he lived in.

(02-03-2014 10:22 AM)soup Wrote:  Tyler Durden's secret society concept in full effect. You are either in or out. The castle walls get higher everyday.

I think the % of guys who are "in" is a lot smaller than he suggested. It's not 1% straight men, probably closer to .1% or even fewer.

(02-06-2014 10:26 PM)Sugar Wrote:  I think the % of guys who are "in" is a lot smaller than he suggested. It's not 1% straight men, probably closer to .1% or even fewer.

It is not like with money where the Koch Brothers and the like can accumulate most of it. Guys who fuck a lot actually have to keep fucking, and they too have limited time and energy. The highest self-reported notch count on RVF is what....a little over 100/year? Most guys, even alphas, never get anywhere close to that number. 0.1% can't physically satisfy all the women even if they fuck every night, the math just doesn't work.

My estimate would be somewhere between 20 and 2%. Let's say a top 20% guy has 5 chicks in his "mini-harem". These 5 chicks also fuck other guys like him, but then he sometimes fucks other chicks too (from other top 20% guys' mini harems). This means that the guy satisfies 5 girls (give or take) on a regular basis, and these girls don't need betas to fuck them. That's the 80/20 rule right there.

(02-06-2014 11:18 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(02-06-2014 10:26 PM)Sugar Wrote:  I think the % of guys who are "in" is a lot smaller than he suggested. It's not 1% straight men, probably closer to .1% or even fewer.

It is not like with money where the Koch Brothers and the like can accumulate most of it. Guys who fuck a lot actually have to keep fucking, and they too have limited time and energy. The highest self-reported notch count on RVF is what....a little over 100/year? Most guys, even alphas, never get anywhere close to that number. 0.1% can't physically satisfy all the women even if they fuck every night, the math just doesn't work.

My estimate would be somewhere between 20 and 2%. Let's say a top 20% guy has 5 chicks in his "mini-harem". These 5 chicks also fuck other guys like him, but then he sometimes fucks other chicks too (from other top 20% guys' mini harems). This means that the guy satisfies 5 girls (give or take) on a regular basis, and these girls don't need betas to fuck them. That's the 80/20 rule right there.

Has anyone pulled up any statistics? Even self-reported surveys on how often you get laid is eye opening I'm sure. In a quick search I was able to find an interesting experiment for response rates on online dating sites, I'm sure it's worse when it comes to getting laid:

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/06/2...xperiment/

(02-06-2014 05:43 AM)P Dog Wrote:  Our culture has never been more sexualized, yet its never been harder for the average chode faggot to get a cute, feminine girlfriend (which is what most of them actually want, not a string of one night stands). Hence why the average guy is so fucked up these days.

Cant agree with you more, I think a lot of "thirst" comes from actual female attention in the form of a girlfriend or similar situation. One night stands are good when you're actually fucking the girl but a couple of days later you look back at it and you're in the same place i.e. no female attention. A good way to describe ONS are fast food good while you're eating them but you're hungry a few hours later, because they're kind of a means to an end. Is this beta?

With knowledge and application of game it's impossible to be thirsty. You recognize dry spells are a part of it sometimes and they are chances for you to grow or try out certain areas of game you haven't tried before. Perhaps you need to try new venues, day game more, experiment online, etc.

The average guy without game awareness does not have this sense. He's always clawing at chances to get with girls, because to him he has to make the most of the chances because they don't come around often. Whenever he gets a chance, more than likely he will fuck it up because he's jumping at the opportunity as if it's his last.

Once you have some experience with game, you recognize that getting laid is up to you, and not up to the girls (the average guy mindset). It's impossible to be thirsty because more than likely you haven't been approaching or working hard enough, and perhaps girls just aren't your focus at that time, and you know if you cared enough you could easily solve that small problem.