Post: #1

Is buying bullion a good way to keep money, or is this just popular amongst 'preppers' and conspiracy types?

Post: #2

See here:
/thread-3939.html

Some fantastic talks by prominent gold advocates
Peter Schiff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhTgTJwvFdg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdB9I79BQRI

Mike Maloney
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj2s6vzErqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU

Edit: Tried to fix Youtube embedding, not sure why it didn't.

Improve yourself, improve the world.
Datasheets: Chinese Dating. Bitcoin and trading on BTC-E.

Post: #3

Gold has more value as a buffer against global disasters than as a saving tool, and its price swings (it has spiked during the global economic crisis) reflects it. This makes the nature of its price at least partly a bubble rather than a function of inherent value. The best time to get into gold is during good economic times, the best duration is long-term, and the best funds with which to do so are excess savings. You can see this regularity here:



For an even longer view, look here: http://www.gcasset.com/chart-perspective...al-prices/

If the major Western players (USA, EU (esp. France, Germany, Spain and Italy) exit the current quagmire and resume solid growth in, say, 2016., the good time to get into the gold market would be sometime after 2020.

Post: #4

it

Its a hated sector right now. The bearishness in physical metals and mining shares is at extremes. The upside potential is huge check out zealllc.com

Post: #5

I'm a simple guy without a lot of money. If I had more, or had the desire to be a savvy investor I would look at a lot of different things to invest in. But what little I have I don't want to lose. All of my money is cash, silver, and some gold. And all of that shit is in my safe. I don't do paper. If I can't put my hands on it I figure it's not really mine.

Post: #6

I invest all my money in women by taking them to dinner and buying them expensive gifts.
It's going to pay off BIG TIME one day

Post: #7

I think that buying gold/silver is similar to shorting against the fiat currencies.
I would invest in silver if it's under 5k.
I just bought a oz gold bar & two 10 oz silver bars.

Post: #8

I think electronics is driving up the price of gold, silver and copper. All the circuit board traces are copper. The connectors are made of gold to avoid corrosion. Silver is used as solder.

When they recycle electronics they recover some of the metals in the process.

You can buy copper bars and coins as well. Pretty cheap.

http://www.providentmetals.com/bullion/copper.html

Post: #9

My belief is that, if the economy REALLY goes to the shitter, then whos going to want to buy gold from you?

Post: #10

(01-27-2014 05:10 PM)germanico Wrote:  My belief is that, if the economy REALLY goes to the shitter, then whos going to want to buy gold from you?

Just anybody anybody in the world. China maybe? Rich people in the US

Post: #11

(01-27-2014 04:59 AM)Surreyman Wrote:  Is buying bullion a good way to keep money, or is this just popular amongst 'preppers' and conspiracy types?

There's a difference between "keeping money" and "keeping the value of money." Obviously the latter depends on buying low and selling high. I'm not sure gold's trajectory is up right now long term, but I'm not going to argue with anyone who has a gut feeling otherwise.

But as for the former, keeping money, I think it can be valuable. This is because acquiring gold can "feel" like acquiring more than a simple, fungible financial asset. You can become attached to it. It's more than just a number in an account, it's something you can touch. You can hear it spin on a counter. You can click the coins against each other. You can sit like Scrooge McDuck on your pile. And you relate certain purchases with things that were going on in your life at the time you made them. You remember where you bought them, how you got the money, and what kind of person you were at the time. So you tend not to treat it so casually. Also, to cash it in requires more work than simply writing a check, and so again you're forced to treat it more seriously. In short -- it's easier to save.

Gold is also relatively anonymous. There are no institutions that stand between you and your store of value. Institutions that can be corrupted or that will side with authorities should the world turn against you. Furthermore, no matter what people say, there will always be people willing to take your gold in trade.

For keeping money, I like gold over silver, not that both shouldn't be part of a diversified portfolio. But if you need to run, you can fit $40K worth of gold in your pockets or sew it into the seams of your clothes. $40K of silver would weigh too much to carry.

Finally, if you're going to use gold to keep money, don't buy any you plan on selling. Buy to keep. Selling is something that should not even be in your frame of reference when you buy. If it is, just put your money in the bank.

Post: #12

(01-27-2014 07:37 PM)travolta Wrote:  Just anybody anybody in the world. China maybe? Rich people in the US

"Here at GoldMart, we are buying YOUR gold at the best price in the market!"

Post: #13

(01-27-2014 05:10 PM)germanico Wrote:  My belief is that, if the economy REALLY goes to the shitter, then whos going to want to buy gold from you?

Gold crashed in 2008 with everything else but then it immediately recovered the next month. All that uncertainty and as the other stocks continued to crash in early 2009 Gold held strong.

Post: #14

(01-27-2014 07:37 PM)travolta Wrote:  

(01-27-2014 05:10 PM)germanico Wrote:  My belief is that, if the economy REALLY goes to the shitter, then whos going to want to buy gold from you?

Just anybody anybody in the world. China maybe? Rich people in the US

Sure, but how much are they going to pay you for it? Probably not what you paid for it, so you're investing money in an assert that's going to be worth pennies on the dollar when you supposedly most need it.

The problem with metals is that it is purely a price bet, without the benefit of equity, interest or dividend payment.

Post: #15

The good things about holding a 100oz bar of silver for example, is that it is much harder to panic out of than a stock. With your online account, you can sell in 5 seconds or less. With gold or silver, you have to make an effort to sell. Get it out of the safe, drive down to the pawnshop, negotiate with the scumbag pawnbroker etc... There's also an extra factor of being able to transact anonymously outside of the system if you approach it the right way.

Post: #16

(01-27-2014 05:10 PM)germanico Wrote:  My belief is that, if the economy REALLY goes to the shitter, then whos going to want to buy gold from you?

This is exactly right.

If the shit ever hit the fan hard enough for precious metals to hedge against fiat currency, what the hell is a hunk of metal going to do for you?

If the shit hits the fan here, bet your ass it's going to ripple throughout the rest of the world and there's not a soul that would be interested in buying your gold.

Now precious metals as an industry is definitely worth researching. As another poster mentioned above, we're in a huge buying opportunity for mining companies, which I'm currently doing.

Another poster in the stocks thread mentioned Billiton https://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3A...7CTsgfk0wE which is a safe large cap

ATM I'm buying Newmont https://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3A...Gan_sgf-QQ and Minas Buenaventura https://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3A...H_DcsQeSUA

Post: #17

Anyone who thinks the world quit gold cold turkey as a form of money is delusional. Of course this doesn't mean its coming back in the next decade.

Post: #18

A lot of this anti-gold sentiment is a reaction against the "gold bugs" who sit around with their pile of gold waiting for the end of civilization. They preach end of the world doctrine where gold, guns, and food, and water filtration are the only things in life. Glenn Beck, Fox News, newsletter writers, etc.

I understand the gold bug mentality very well--my entire family for the past two generations have been gold bugs. Just as you should take what the gold bugs say with a grain of salt, you should also be skeptical of the anti-gold bugs/pro-fiat currency people.

Physical Gold is a very effective hedge and works well as a small part of a balanced portfolio:

1. It is off the radar and not as easily traceable (IRS does not know about it like stocks, real estate, etc).
2. Very liquid--you can sell/buy gold anywhere in the world from London to Zimbabwe to Argentina.
3. As others have said--very portable as well. If capital controls were implemented it would be much easier to smuggle gold out of the country then your stock portfolio.
4. Generally, gold is not correlated to stocks, real estate. Yes during the 2008 financial crisis all correlations went to 1--but that was temporary. Gold quickly rebounded and made new all time highs sooner than the market.
5. Gold beats cash under a mattress/ in a 0.25% savings account over the long-term when it comes to maintaining purchasing power.

As a trade I like gold and especially the miners. Momentum has changed recently and gold (and the miners) have started to trade independently of the market. Good sign. If it cracks above the 200 day moving average the technical commodity funds/quant funds will start to buy it.

Post: #19

(01-29-2014 09:33 PM)Flavius Aetius Wrote:  A lot of this anti-gold sentiment is a reaction against the "gold bugs" who sit around with their pile of gold waiting for the end of civilization. They preach end of the world doctrine where gold, guns, and food, and water filtration are the only things in life. Glenn Beck, Fox News, newsletter writers, etc.

I understand the gold bug mentality very well--my entire family for the past two generations have been gold bugs. Just as you should take what the gold bugs say with a grain of salt, you should also be skeptical of the anti-gold bugs/pro-fiat currency people.

Physical Gold is a very effective hedge and works well as a small part of a balanced portfolio:

1. It is off the radar and not as easily traceable (IRS does not know about it like stocks, real estate, etc).
2. Very liquid--you can sell/buy gold anywhere in the world from London to Zimbabwe to Argentina.
3. As others have said--very portable as well. If capital controls were implemented it would be much easier to smuggle gold out of the country then your stock portfolio.
4. Generally, gold is not correlated to stocks, real estate. Yes during the 2008 financial crisis all correlations went to 1--but that was temporary. Gold quickly rebounded and made new all time highs sooner than the market.
5. Gold beats cash under a mattress/ in a 0.25% savings account over the long-term when it comes to maintaining purchasing power.

As a trade I like gold and especially the miners. Momentum has changed recently and gold (and the miners) have started to trade independently of the market. Good sign. If it cracks above the 200 day moving average the technical commodity funds/quant funds will start to buy it.

I'm with you on points 1-3. If it was time for me to uproot and GTFO I'd liquidate everything and convert it to gold watches. I know a guy, a former wall street crook, that moves around a lot of money like this in 30K watches.

Post: #20

I saw a documentary where they showed that somewhere under London theres a vault where they keep tons and tons of gold in bars, some of them hundreds of years old.

And they have them in there not for safekeeping, but because if they where out on the market the price of the gold in circulation would go down.

Think the price of gold is always on the rise? Tell that to the Spanish Empire.

Post: #21

If you have the money buying gold is a great investment, I missed the boat not too long ago when gold was at $450/oz.
The chinese government is telling it's citizens to buy gold, in India gold is being bought in large numbers. The Canadian government is telling it's citizens to buy real estate, now you tell me which is the better investment.
If you know anything about fiat currency, then the answer is obvious.

Post: #22

(01-29-2014 06:32 PM)j r Wrote:  

(01-27-2014 07:37 PM)travolta Wrote:  

(01-27-2014 05:10 PM)germanico Wrote:  My belief is that, if the economy REALLY goes to the shitter, then whos going to want to buy gold from you?

Just anybody anybody in the world. China maybe? Rich people in the US

Sure, but how much are they going to pay you for it? Probably not what you paid for it, so you're investing money in an assert that's going to be worth pennies on the dollar when you supposedly most need it.

The problem with metals is that it is purely a price bet, without the benefit of equity, interest or dividend payment.

Sure, maybe it won't be worth much in USD, but what about foreign currencies...? Does nobody on this forum offshore? Holding all of your money is USD is a dangerous bet to begin with. When/if the US dollar collapses, those with gold can simply leave to another country and be fine. Physical gold stored offshore can't be nationalized by the US government.

Post: #23

The idea of owning gold is not to become wealthy by trading it in some future Mad Max scenario, it's simply to hedge against a currency collapse/hyperinflation, and to a lesser extent to escape the reach of an increasingly greedy and confiscatory government. No one is going to stand around bartering their gold coins for food or whatever. If shit ever got to that point, guns and muscle would be all that mattered, not gold. Rather, by owning gold you ensure that at least that portion of your wealth is guaranteed to hold its value over time, regardless of what currency its measured in.

Let's say the dollar collapses five years from now. Inflation goes crazy. Your $500k stock portfolio is now worth $5 million, which is awesome. Except that a loaf of bread is $100, and $250 the next week. Suddenly a $5 million portfolio doesn't seem like so much. The middle class, and basically everyone who didn't own hard assets of some type (real estate, productive companies, antiques & collectibles, precious metals, etc...) would have their savings totally wiped out. If all you are holding is dollars and dollar denominated assets, then you're fucked if dollars lose their value. That's why people own gold: to diversify away from the dollar (and from all fiat currencies, really) and to ensure continuity to the next financial system in the event that the current system undergoes a collapse or significant shock.

Is it likely? I don't know. I hope not. But it's not likely my house is going to burn down, either, and I still have fire insurance.

Post: #24

(01-31-2014 11:39 AM)scorpion Wrote:  Rather, by owning gold you ensure that at least that portion of your wealth is guaranteed to hold its value over time, regardless of what currency its measured in.

that's why I have some.

Post: #25

Silver today is just over $19 an ounce. A couple years ago it peaked at $48. These are bargain basement prices for silver. The less that money is worth, the more precious metals increase their value. Precious metals will always be coveted. They have been since the dawn of man. That will never change.

Uzi