(01-24-2014 02:15 AM)calwinston Wrote:  The fall of the Ukrainian hryvnia begins.....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-23...redit.html

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10...11524.html

When I left Ukraine last month is was still hovering around 8 hryvnia to the dollar. Now it is at 8.5 and declining.

The ruble is tanking right now too.

The artistic irony in this

Russia must be rather annoyed that this is happening so close (in both geography and time) to the Olympics.

(01-25-2014 12:31 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  Russia must be rather annoyed that this is happening so close (in both geography and time) to the Olympics.

I disagree. The Sochi games have been the subject of so much negative attention and scrutiny that any event that would take the attention off of the perceived screw ups ($55-60 billion projected price tag!!!) is surely welcome.

(01-25-2014 12:18 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

I still can't believe the cops aren't going on the offensive.Fuck what West thinks..open fire if they are being beaten. Taking over gov't buildings using violence is an act of terrorism(they don't even pay taxes lol).
Not to take sides but the national guard/military should be called in at this point. Its pretty pathetic when you lose your own buildings.

(01-25-2014 01:17 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(01-25-2014 12:18 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

I still can't believe the cops aren't going on the offensive.Fuck what West thinks..open fire if they are being beaten. Taking over gov't buildings using violence is an act of terrorism(they don't even pay taxes lol).
Not to take sides but the national guard/military should be called in at this point. Its pretty pathetic when you lose your own buildings.

If they did that, this shit would turn into a civil war.

It could still become a civil war, but for now at least it is just a violent riot.

Ukrainian cops are pieces of shit. I don't get why there are people here even remotely feeling sorry for them.

The criminals are the cops there.






As for people thinking execution on the spot before a trial is a good idea, you guys are blind. It's a slippery slope and it's only a matter of time when you get trampled and had wished for a fair trial.

(01-25-2014 01:22 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Ukrainian cops are pieces of shit. I don't get why there are people here even remotely feeling sorry for them.

The criminals are the cops there.






As for people thinking execution on the spot before a trial is a good idea, you guys are blind. It's a slippery slope and it's only a matter of time when you get trampled and had wished for a fair trial.

@Worldwide (rolls eyes because KNOWING you like I do..you deserved what you got,lol just kidding!)
We usually agree but here We don't. Most Ukrainian cops are decent like anywhere else. Then you have your thugs...but understandably since Russians/Ukrainians worship gangsters and men who are strong..you will end up with more aggressive cops. But then again its everywhere in the society.
I know many expats(mostly in Odessa) who got attacked by ordinary Ukrainians...in all cases they were ganged up on , striked from behind and kept kicking even when the victim was on the ground. That is the Ukrainian/Russian way(sounds like Al Capone in untouchables lol). Cops are products of their environment!
You have a problem because you had to bribe one? Go to non touristy cities and you will not see that as much..remember you spent your time in a city where everyone wants a piece of the pie!Las Vegas cops also prey on tourists..they wrote up my father for nothing!
One reason most American cities have residence requirements for being a cop is so their will be a desire for the cop to improve/help the community. In Ukraine they specifically assign cops to different cities than where they grew up or have family. That doesn't help.Also Most cops are actually Ukrainians since most come from the villages. Its a low paying job..they don't attract the big city gents.
The few times Ukrainian cops bothered me.....I actually did something wrong! Being able to pay a bribe is actually a win situation than having to go before a judge if you think about it. Also remember what I told you..the gov't actually forces cops to pay even for the paper they use to process an arrest or write a real summons(was that way in 2006). So it makes sense that the cops will avoid arrests and go off the books!
In any case from the videos it seems like the protesters are being more violent.
When next months pension checks don't go out to the babushkas and the cops and teachers and other gov't workers don't get paid because of shut down..lets see how much support the protesters get.

(01-25-2014 01:45 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  @Worldwide (rolls eyes)
We usually agree but here We don't. Most Ukrainian cops are decent like anywhere else. Then you have your thugs...but understandably since Russians/Ukrainians worship gangsters and men who are strong..you will end up with more aggressive cops. But then again its everywhere in the society.
I know many expats(mostly in Odessa) who got attacked by ordinary Ukrainians...in all cases they were ganged up on , striked from behind and kept kicking even when the victim was on the ground. That is the Ukrainian/Russian way(sounds like Al Capone in untouchables lol). Cops are products of their environment!
You have a problem because you had to bribe one? Go to non touristy cities and you will not see that as much..remember you spent your time in a city where everyone wants a piece of the pie!Las Vegas cops also prey on tourists..they wrote up my father for nothing!
One reason most American cities have residence requirements for being a cop is so their will be a desire for the cop to improve/help the community. In Ukraine they specifically assign cops to different cities than where they grew up or have family. That doesn't help.
The few times Ukrainian cops bothered me.....I actually did something wrong! Being able to pay a bribe is actually a win situation than having to go before a judge if you think about it. Also remember what I told you..the gov'tactually forces cops to pay even for the paper they use to process an arrest or write a real summons(was that way in 2006). So it makes sense that the cops will avoid arrests and go off the books!

Nope, I have to disagree.

I wish my experience was just bribes. More like kidnapping and ransom. Luckily I had someone bribe me out before anything really bad happened like a beating or pinning some other shit on me. Saying they are not criminals and then going on to say they take bribes isn't exactly making your point.

But you do have a point, this only happened in Odessa.

(01-23-2014 11:15 PM)TripleG Wrote:  "One point folks are making I agree with. The US would have destroyed any such movement say on the Washington DC mall. It would have been violent and the psychological ops through media would have been brutal."

Rastignac, US would not have done any better. Just look at the LA Riots if you need an example or the MLK riots a few decades earlier...



In terms of controlling civil disobedience no one in the world does it better than the Russians. They enforce brutal yet effective punishment. Unfortunately cops here are too scared of using force (compared to developing world) due to potential lawsuits so too much power is concentrated in the judicial sector...street justice unfortunately is non-existent here and can lead to a repeat of racial riots or even economic riots, just look how long the Occupy Wall Street protests persisted. If the police in any way used violent force on the DC Mall useless groups like the ACL or NAACP would interfere and trust me the politicians and DC government would get scared of further offending them and their followers and would back off as soon as the media started reporting on local law enforcement using excessive force.

L.A. riots aren't comparable, shit went into a freefall when the police were overwhelmed. If a situation like this was thoroughly planned for, it could have turned out much better earlier. If the National Guard was called out right when things began to go south, we wouldn't have that much chaos. If the rioters saw Humvees and heavily armed soldiers, they would have ended it much sooner. Fear works.

(01-25-2014 01:54 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(01-25-2014 01:45 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  @Worldwide (rolls eyes)
We usually agree but here We don't. Most Ukrainian cops are decent like anywhere else. Then you have your thugs...but understandably since Russians/Ukrainians worship gangsters and men who are strong..you will end up with more aggressive cops. But then again its everywhere in the society.
I know many expats(mostly in Odessa) who got attacked by ordinary Ukrainians...in all cases they were ganged up on , striked from behind and kept kicking even when the victim was on the ground. That is the Ukrainian/Russian way(sounds like Al Capone in untouchables lol). Cops are products of their environment!
You have a problem because you had to bribe one? Go to non touristy cities and you will not see that as much..remember you spent your time in a city where everyone wants a piece of the pie!Las Vegas cops also prey on tourists..they wrote up my father for nothing!
One reason most American cities have residence requirements for being a cop is so their will be a desire for the cop to improve/help the community. In Ukraine they specifically assign cops to different cities than where they grew up or have family. That doesn't help.
The few times Ukrainian cops bothered me.....I actually did something wrong! Being able to pay a bribe is actually a win situation than having to go before a judge if you think about it. Also remember what I told you..the gov'tactually forces cops to pay even for the paper they use to process an arrest or write a real summons(was that way in 2006). So it makes sense that the cops will avoid arrests and go off the books!

Nope, I have to disagree.

I wish my experience was just bribes. More like kidnapping and ransom. Luckily I had someone bribe me out before anything really bad happened like a beating or pinning some other shit on me. Saying they are not criminals and then going on to say they take bribes isn't exactly making your point.

I never said ALL take bribes. But graft is part of FSU culture . So then basically EVERYONE is a criminal in that country then by your account!
To get something fixed.... i had to bribe (make payment)maintenance folks beyond what is thier salary.
To get internet folk s to come.... Bribe.
Educators get bribes.
Private medical clinics make up FALSE conditions to get paid.
Private delivery company workers expected a extra payment to release my goods(not gov't)
Bribing is done at all levels..Not just gov't. As I said.... its hard to get folks to do their job without xtra incentives over there.
TBH in Brooklyn they aren't much better.My Latvian Super(Russian ethnic) expects bribes to get him over here to fix anything. I went to a dentist who made up all this shit on my insurance claim that wasn't even done(hes Russian with a Russian staff like most medical staff in my area)
As for kidnapping I had a taxi cab driver I guess attempt to kidnap me...but putting his face in the steering wheel changed the scenario.

Why don't you share your kidnap experience??
Maybe it was some rich MILF that was attempting to get you and she paid them to acquire you??Weirder things have happened!
PS- i never said they weren't criminals, just that they aren't TURDS.I said they are products of their environment and actually respond how the locals expect them,even want them to.

(01-25-2014 02:06 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  I never said ALL take bribes. But graft is part of FSU culture . So then basically EVERYONE is a criminal in that country then by your account!
To get something fixed.... i had to bribe (make payment)maintenance folks beyond what is thier salary.
To get internet folk s to come.... Bribe.
Educators get bribes.
Private medical clinics make up FALSE conditions to get paid.
Private delivery company workers expected a extra payment to release my goods(not gov't)
Bribing is done at all levels..Not just gov't. As I said.... its hard to get folks to do their job without xtra incentives over there.

As for kidnapping I had a taxi cab driver I guess attempt to kidnap me...but putting his face in the steering wheel changed the scenario.

Why don't you share your kidnap experience??
Maybe it was some rich MILF he was attempting to get you and she paid them to acquire you??Weirder things have happened!

Yeah, I know bribes quite well. We are talking about cops, though.

Educators and others did not take jobs to uphold the laws.

Sure, bribes can be good but they tend to be more of a problem when it comes to getting anything done.

I prefer not to get into too many details here but let's just say they were in the right place at the right time... or more like they were informed about me at the place we were at.

I don't want people to think this is the norm, though. It was part timing and part motherfuckers. hah Either way, I survived.

All of the Ukrainians I talked with, they all said the same thing. The criminals are the cops. Look at the video I posted if you think otherwise. You think that shit is ok?

Rich Milf? Dude, you don't think I could get the younger hotties? haha

(01-25-2014 02:14 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(01-25-2014 02:06 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  I never said ALL take bribes. But graft is part of FSU culture . So then basically EVERYONE is a criminal in that country then by your account!
To get something fixed.... i had to bribe (make payment)maintenance folks beyond what is thier salary.
To get internet folk s to come.... Bribe.
Educators get bribes.
Private medical clinics make up FALSE conditions to get paid.
Private delivery company workers expected a extra payment to release my goods(not gov't)
Bribing is done at all levels..Not just gov't. As I said.... its hard to get folks to do their job without xtra incentives over there.

As for kidnapping I had a taxi cab driver I guess attempt to kidnap me...but putting his face in the steering wheel changed the scenario.

Why don't you share your kidnap experience??
Maybe it was some rich MILF he was attempting to get you and she paid them to acquire you??Weirder things have happened!

Yeah, I know bribes quite well. We are talking about cops, though.

Educators and others did not take jobs to uphold the laws.

Sure, bribes can be good but they tend to be more of a problem when it comes to getting anything done.

I prefer not to get into too many details here but let's just say they were in the right place at the right time... or more like they were informed about me at the place we were at.

I don't want people to think this is the norm, though. It was part timing and part motherfuckers. hah Either way, I survived.

All of the Ukrainians I talked with, they all said the same thing. The criminals are the cops. Look at the video I posted if you think otherwise. You think that shit is ok?

Didn't say it was ok..... but when shit hits the fan the thugs show their true colors. We had a lot of crazy mother fuckers on our side do bad shit in war zones and even here in America you had the cops in the 70 pct who ass raped that guy with a plunger. Lets Not even talk about some of those Redneck southern cops I have met lol.
That s why these riots are bad.... guys who have anger management issues or who may be sociopaths make up an excuse to go all medieval. But then again if someone threw a Molotov cocktail at me... I might want to go Medieval on his ass. Wouldn't you? They use to throw those to blow up tanks in WW2!

Surprisingly, there hasn't been looting. My wife swears that the protesters are more afraid of mafia hit-men coming after them so they are keeping away from looting businesses since MANY are owned by mobsters .

Haha...Young Odessan snobby women prefer to be pursued. The older ones resort to kidnapping, etc

(01-25-2014 02:25 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  Didn't say it was ok..... but when shit hits the fan the thugs show their true colors. We had a lot of crazy mother fuckers on our side do bad shit in war zones and even here in America you had the cops in the 70 pct who ass raped that guy with a plunger. Lets Not even talk about some of those Redneck southern cops I have met lol.
That s why these riots are bad.... guys who have anger management issues or who may be sociopaths make up an excuse to go all medieval. But then again if someone threw a Molotov cocktail at me... I might want to go Medieval on his ass. Wouldn't you? They use to throw those to blow up tanks in WW2!

Surprisingly, there hasn't been looting. My wife swears that the protesters are more afraid of mafia hit-men coming after them so they are keeping away from looting businesses since MANY are owned by mobsters .

Hell yeah I would be wanting to mess some of them up if they did the same thing to me. That is why I wouldn't be a good cop and wouldn't get into that line of work.

There are stories popping around that "demonstrators" are going missing from the hospitals. I don't know if it is true but it wouldn't surprise me.

I think the gov played right into the hands of the radicals in this situation.

(01-25-2014 02:29 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(01-25-2014 02:25 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  Didn't say it was ok..... but when shit hits the fan the thugs show their true colors. We had a lot of crazy mother fuckers on our side do bad shit in war zones and even here in America you had the cops in the 70 pct who ass raped that guy with a plunger. Lets Not even talk about some of those Redneck southern cops I have met lol.
That s why these riots are bad.... guys who have anger management issues or who may be sociopaths make up an excuse to go all medieval. But then again if someone threw a Molotov cocktail at me... I might want to go Medieval on his ass. Wouldn't you? They use to throw those to blow up tanks in WW2!

Surprisingly, there hasn't been looting. My wife swears that the protesters are more afraid of mafia hit-men coming after them so they are keeping away from looting businesses since MANY are owned by mobsters .

Hell yeah I would be wanting to mess some of them up if they did the same thing to me. That is why I wouldn't be a good cop and wouldn't get into that line of work.

There are stories popping around that "demonstrators" are going missing from the hospitals. I don't know if it is true but it wouldn't surprise me.

I think the gov played right into the hands of the radicals in this situation.

Umm.....maybe those going missing from hospitals are being taken for organ harvesting? That shit goes on in EE sometimes!
If you were forced to eat Ukrainian hospital food..you would make sure you went MISSING also (3 meals of porridge/buckwheat daily)

(01-25-2014 02:33 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(01-25-2014 02:29 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(01-25-2014 02:25 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  Didn't say it was ok..... but when shit hits the fan the thugs show their true colors. We had a lot of crazy mother fuckers on our side do bad shit in war zones and even here in America you had the cops in the 70 pct who ass raped that guy with a plunger. Lets Not even talk about some of those Redneck southern cops I have met lol.
That s why these riots are bad.... guys who have anger management issues or who may be sociopaths make up an excuse to go all medieval. But then again if someone threw a Molotov cocktail at me... I might want to go Medieval on his ass. Wouldn't you? They use to throw those to blow up tanks in WW2!

Surprisingly, there hasn't been looting. My wife swears that the protesters are more afraid of mafia hit-men coming after them so they are keeping away from looting businesses since MANY are owned by mobsters .

Hell yeah I would be wanting to mess some of them up if they did the same thing to me. That is why I wouldn't be a good cop and wouldn't get into that line of work.

There are stories popping around that "demonstrators" are going missing from the hospitals. I don't know if it is true but it wouldn't surprise me.

I think the gov played right into the hands of the radicals in this situation.

Umm.....maybe those going missing from hospitals are being taken for organ harvesting? That shit goes on in EE sometimes!
If you were forced to eat Ukrainian hospital food..you would make sure you went MISSING also (3 meals of porridge/buckwheat daily)

ha! I forgot all about buckwheat until you mentioned it.

(01-22-2014 07:39 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(01-22-2014 07:28 PM)CarCrashKid Wrote:  From my knowledge and experience

Do you have any? Because by the sound of what you wrote next, I don't think you've ever visited Russia or Ukraine.

(01-22-2014 07:28 PM)CarCrashKid Wrote:  Russia has got bad press for years now. Products and services are cheaper over there because of the spread of communism.

The reason doctors and lawyers don't have the same life style as the oligarchs is because they get paid as poorly as someone working in a less skilled job. The oligarchs are corrupt firstly and bringing in outside money to live in an economy where goods such as property is super cheap.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I love this. You've provided literally zero evidence to oppose my thoughts.
However let me have a go,
I know for a fact that in the Ukraine, the minimum wage was raised to about €0.60 euro from November or December. Now, I can tell you that the minimum wage in Ireland is €8.65 per hour because I've been on that wage.

Now let me try some more arithmetic. Let's say I work in both countries for a year...
8 hours a day,4 days a week, every week for a year.

8.65*8*4*52... €14,393
Vs
.60*8*4*52.. €998.4

Now if I make more money than my compatriot get the minimum wage, imagine the difference between doctors.

Relative to the West, things are much cheaper. Hence why a lot of men in this forum, intend or tend to make their money in the Anglosphere then set sail for the Eastern shores.

(01-25-2014 04:11 PM)CarCrashKid Wrote:  I love this. You've provided literally zero evidence to oppose my thoughts.
However let me have a go,
I know for a fact that in the Ukraine, the minimum wage was raised to about €0.60 euro from November or December. Now, I can tell you that the minimum wage in Ireland is €8.65 per hour because I've been on that wage.

Now let me try some more arithmetic. Let's say I work in both countries for a year...
8 hours a day,4 days a week, every week for a year.

8.65*8*4*52... €14,393
Vs
.60*8*4*52.. €998.4

Now if I make more money than my compatriot get the minimum wage, imagine the difference between doctors.

Relative to the West, things are much cheaper. Hence why a lot of men in this forum, intend or tend to make their money in the Anglosphere then set sail for the Eastern shores.

You're talking about a cash society. There are salaries and then there is what they really take home.

(01-25-2014 04:11 PM)CarCrashKid Wrote:  

(01-22-2014 07:39 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(01-22-2014 07:28 PM)CarCrashKid Wrote:  From my knowledge and experience

Do you have any? Because by the sound of what you wrote next, I don't think you've ever visited Russia or Ukraine.

(01-22-2014 07:28 PM)CarCrashKid Wrote:  Russia has got bad press for years now. Products and services are cheaper over there because of the spread of communism.

The reason doctors and lawyers don't have the same life style as the oligarchs is because they get paid as poorly as someone working in a less skilled job. The oligarchs are corrupt firstly and bringing in outside money to live in an economy where goods such as property is super cheap.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I love this. You've provided literally zero evidence to oppose my thoughts.
However let me have a go,
I know for a fact that in the Ukraine, the minimum wage was raised to about €0.60 euro from November or December. Now, I can tell you that the minimum wage in Ireland is €8.65 per hour because I've been on that wage.

Now let me try some more arithmetic. Let's say I work in both countries for a year...
8 hours a day,4 days a week, every week for a year.

8.65*8*4*52... €14,393
Vs
.60*8*4*52.. €998.4

Now if I make more money than my compatriot get the minimum wage, imagine the difference between doctors.

Relative to the West, things are much cheaper. Hence why a lot of men in this forum, intend or tend to make their money in the Anglosphere then set sail for the Eastern shores.

They said your post didn't make sense because of 2 main reasons:
1. products aren't cheaper in FSU. Many services yes, but Not all. Food is about the same. Some items like meat are more expensive while some like bread is less. But consumer products are about 1/3 to 1/2 more.
Many services that are considered for the elite or just as expensive, eating out in a good restaurant or going bowling. I am comparing to America NOT the Socialist republic of Europa lol.

2. what you said about doctors made NO sense. Doctors living like Oligarchs? where in this world? America is probably the only country where doctors are rich (according to Michael more anyway). Usually that's specialists. Many Lawyers are rich ,Most aren't(Slubu doesn't think he is rich does he?).
Doctors are upper middle class in America. Lawyers are middle class to upper middle class on average .ADA's(gov't LAWYER) make shitty pay, less than cops.
In Ukraine they don't make high salaries because MOST work for gov't.Most of their lawyers are = to ADA's and most of their dr's work at clinics and State hospitals. They also don't have to buy expensive insurance or pay for expensive college degrees. In fact they don't even give up many earning years studying .I dated doctors who were 23. YES..23. Doesn't take many years of studying like in USA.many also BUY their degrees! so good luck with those ones lol.
An Oligarch is the = to a Carnegie or a Rockefeller of sorts .How can you compare them or their income to the professional class? Makes little sense.
Most Oligarchs make money in country because they control the capital investments and assets of Ukraine/Russia. They actually tend to send their money outside of the country to protect it..Not bring it in from outside.
My flat in Odessa was worth 135k in 2008. Then it went down to 70k in the recession. A few years ago you could buy a 2 br 2ba condo in vegas and Florida for 50k. I bought a home for 75k in North Vegas. In Moscow the avg flat is beyond most westerners means to buy .Where is the low costs you are talking about?
It has been said over and over...Russia isn't cheap. Men go there for girls, its Not a retirement destination lol.
3.You said the cheap products is due to the spread of communism!. Russia hasn't SPREAD communism since 1989! DId you just awake from a time capsule? Prices have risen fast in the last 15 years .FSU suffers from high inflation compared to stable economies of the West.

BTW: Doctors often open their own private practice over there that caters to the RICH. They scam the rich by making up false ailments and get paid to treat them. Those doctors do pretty well!
Many lawyers do clerical type stuff..like notarizing documents. Its a very bureaucratic society. They aren't out their handling divorces or chasing ambulances. There aren't many ambulances.

In closing I think that is why senior members might have joked about you ever being there!It was ALL good fun!

Also to back up Worldwide. They have reported income lets say of 200 dollars but make 350. This way they only pay taxes on the 200(15% and paid by employers?? I THINK, or it use to be that way)

(01-25-2014 04:35 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  They said your post didn't make sense because of 2 main reasons:
1. products aren't cheaper in FSU. Many services yes, but Not all. Food is about the same. Some items like meat are more expensive while some like bread is less. But consumer products are about 1/3 to 1/2 more.
Many services that are considered for the elite or just as expensive, eating out in a good restaurant or going bowling. I am comparing to America NOT the Socialist republic of Europa lol.

ha! Yeah, a lot of stuff is way more expensive there. Bowling surprised me there since it kind of has a low class view here. There was one place that I won free drinks and I'm a crappy bowler.

When I was there, we were talking 5 to 1 on hryvnia exchange. I am starting to miss the place now. haha

Quote:Also to back up Worldwide. They have reported income lets say of 200 dollars but make 350. This way they only pay taxes on the 200(15% and paid by employers?? I THINK, or it use to be that way)

It's been awhile for me but that was the way it worked. Child support was pretty much screwed because of it. hah

Add in the bribe system and then you can see why government jobs were sought after in a big way. I spent a lot of money, in bribes, getting my passport stamped for a year.

(01-25-2014 04:11 PM)CarCrashKid Wrote:  Relative to the West, things are much cheaper. Hence why a lot of men in this forum, intend or tend to make their money in the Anglosphere then set sail for the Eastern shores.

As someone who has lived in the country for almost a decade, I can tell you 'things' are certainly not cheaper. I doubt you've ever been to either country, but if you have then you are not comparing like-for-like goods and services. Bread that is 1/3 by weight made up of sawdust is not better value, it's only cheaper due to its lower quality. Local produce is of very poor quality, hence the lower prices. Imported goods, even basic ones like bananas, are significantly more expensive than anywhere in the EU or the US.

Your comment about oligarchs 'bringing in money' is ridiculous. Oligarchs make their money by stealing State assets and resources, and siphoning money from the State budget. The idea that they then live cheaply in Ukraine and Russia is, frankly, idiotic. For starters, most of them spend little time in Russia and Ukraine. While in the West, they keep up appearances by buying the most expensive real estate in London, New York, and the French Riviera, by commissioning the world's most expensive yachts, and personally sponsoring sports teams. And you think they're on a budget?

"the spread of communism" - actually, what Russia and Ukraine have now is unchecked capitalism; the opposite of what you're trying to claim.

So have you been to Ukraine or Russia?

Do we have any men on the ground in Ukraine right now?

(01-25-2014 09:27 PM)DaveR Wrote:  As someone who has lived in the country for almost a decade, I can tell you 'things' are certainly not cheaper. I doubt you've ever been to either country, but if you have then you are not comparing like-for-like goods and services. Bread that is 1/3 by weight made up of sawdust is not better value, it's only cheaper due to its lower quality. Local produce is of very poor quality, hence the lower prices. Imported goods, even basic ones like bananas, are significantly more expensive than anywhere in the EU or the US.

Your comment about oligarchs 'bringing in money' is ridiculous. Oligarchs make their money by stealing State assets and resources, and siphoning money from the State budget. The idea that they then live cheaply in Ukraine and Russia is, frankly, idiotic. For starters, most of them spend little time in Russia and Ukraine. While in the West, they keep up appearances by buying the most expensive real estate in London, New York, and the French Riviera, by commissioning the world's most expensive yachts, and personally sponsoring sports teams. And you think they're on a budget?

"the spread of communism" - actually, what Russia and Ukraine have now is unchecked capitalism; the opposite of what you're trying to claim.

So have you been to Ukraine or Russia?

I've been in Kiev, Moscow, St.Petersburg and Novgorod.
I'll admit being there for in total less than two weeks. So instead of trying to defend my pride from people. I'll just say Yeah, you're all correct!
And now move on.