Post: #1

Good Afternoon,
http://distancelearn.about.com/od/online...school.htm

Do you guys think this is a good path to pursue after going to college? I'd like to do this along with med school and hopefully walk out of school with both degrees. Do you think the possible financial gain is worth the extreme time and effort involved in this?

Post: #2

What do you stand to gain from this?

What do you want to do in 15 years?

Those are two questions you should ask yourself. The prospects for Law school grads are low, too much supply and not enough demand so the JD will be uselss compared to the MD.

Not to mention that if you don't plan to see yourself using that JD in 15 years then it's a small ROI type of thing, considering you're very interested in medicine.

This is coming from someone who wanted to major in Spanish/International Business/Finance. Then I realized that Spanish would not bring any benefits as I would not use the degree.

Post: #3

(01-05-2014 06:42 PM)CaliforniaSupreme Wrote:  Good Afternoon,
http://distancelearn.about.com/od/online...school.htm

Do you guys think this is a good path to pursue after going to college? I'd like to do this along with med school and hopefully walk out of school with both degrees. Do you think the possible financial gain is worth the extreme time and effort involved in this?

Make sure your state (or any state or country you might want to live in) will accept it for admission to the bar. Some have some pretty screwy regulations. Then again, in some states you can "just" intern for a certain amount of time with a practicing lawyer and then challenge the bar exam directly.

Post: #4

If I decide to go this route, I'd basically get into the field of medical law. Perhaps doing work on behalf of insurance companies, etc. I am dead set on going to med school, and I'm trying to get all possible advantages on my side.

E: I live in California, probably the best place for this kind of program.

Post: #5

(01-05-2014 06:54 PM)CaliforniaSupreme Wrote:  If I decide to go this route, I'd basically get into the field of medical law. Perhaps doing work on behalf of insurance companies, etc. I am dead set on going to med school, and I'm trying to get all possible advantages on my side.

E: I live in California, probably the best place for this kind of program.

If you want to get involved in both law and medicine, either go forensic pathology or just become an expert witness in your specialty as a doc. You want fat cash for not a lot of work, being an expert witness is the way to go. I (as a non-physician) am admitted as one in several jurisdictions across three countries because of my work and my going rate is between US$150 and $300 per hour plus expenses. I know a few docs who do it and pull over $1000 per hour.

I know several MD/JDs (other than forensic pathologists where a few have that combo) and none of them like the law aspect of their job. In fact, they are probably the most miserable docs I know.

Post: #6

(01-05-2014 06:42 PM)CaliforniaSupreme Wrote:  Good Afternoon,
http://distancelearn.about.com/od/online...school.htm

Do you guys think this is a good path to pursue after going to college? I'd like to do this along with med school and hopefully walk out of school with both degrees. Do you think the possible financial gain is worth the extreme time and effort involved in this?

Every med student I've met hasn't been able to do much else during school, same goes for most of the law students (the ones who managed to graduate, anyway). I'd also be really worried about getting a degree from a non-accredited institution, the job market for recent law school grads is over-saturated and you'd be on the absolute bottom of the barrel. Your link says it requires 864 hours of classroom time, that's not really free time you're going to have in med school.

Also, I don't know what you're majoring in, but getting the pre-reqs done for both law school and med school sounds like a lot of unnecessary work, virtually none of the pre-law and pre-med classes are going to be the same.

Post: #7

Gonna be blunt with you, this is stupid.

To be in the field of medical law you don't need an M.D., and having one will not give you any big leg up on. You will be what, 35 or older when this is all wrapped up? Other lawyers your age will have had at least a decades worth of experience in litigating that you will have missed out on, and furthermore they will have a pretty good knowledge of medicine just from working in the field for so long (a decade is more than half of how old you are right now....to put things in perspective). Also, health insurance firms do hire doctors but those guys are doing medical analysis work, not super-legal-doctor work.

I think you are probably attracted to this for the prestige of it. 4 letters after your name, fancy stuff huh?

Not in my opinion. Prestige is stupid, don't chase prestige. Chase $$$. You are going to be out of the workforce for a ridiculous amount of time getting these two degrees, and when you graduate you won't have any big pay increase for all that. Opportunity cost > future income by getting the JD.

Also, aren't you trying to do ROTC also? If that is still true, you are going to come out of this owing the military about the full 20 years of service. So you will finally be able to go into private sector at like 55 years old hahaha.

Post: #8

(01-05-2014 07:11 PM)MHaes Wrote:  Gonna be blunt with you, this is stupid.

To be in the field of medical law you don't need an M.D., and having one will not give you any big leg up on. You will be what, 35 or older when this is all wrapped up? Other lawyers your age will have had at least a decades worth of experience in litigating that you will have missed out on, and furthermore they will have a pretty good knowledge of medicine just from working in the field for so long (a decade is more than half of how old you are right now....to put things in perspective). Also, health insurance firms do hire doctors but those guys are doing medical analysis work, not super-legal-doctor work.

I think you are probably attracted to this for the prestige of it. 4 letters after your name, fancy stuff huh?

Not in my opinion. Prestige is stupid, don't chase prestige. Chase $$$. You are going to be out of the workforce for a ridiculous amount of time getting these two degrees, and when you graduate you won't have any big pay increase for all that. Opportunity cost > future income by getting the JD.

Also, aren't you trying to do ROTC also? If that is still true, you are going to come out of this owing the military about the full 20 years of service. So you will finally be able to go into private sector at like 55 years old hahaha.

I have two major career goals: make money and be happy with how I make it.

I've heard advice from counselors saying that joint degree programs and the such are good programs to get into. That's why I'm even considering the online JD program on the side, because it may help me make money faster. I have the same reasoning behind ROTC. The costs of the online law degree is not too much, about $10k a year, and my parents said that they'd pay it without repayment if I pursue it. It seems better to go that route instead of making a military commitment. I come from a family where education is everything, they'll try to pay for my schooling as long as I'm committed to it. However, I'm trying my best to help pay my way through school.

Post: #9

I had a professor who had this combo of degrees, and two others. He was living pretty bummy though (you could tell). I don't know why anyone would do that to themselves. But some people are quite content with being "career students." Not me though. I would never do a PhD either.

Post: #10

Quote:I've heard advice from counselors saying that joint degree programs and the such are good programs to get into.

There is a BIG difference between a joint MD/JD program (where they set it up for you) and trying to wing it on your own. Most med students (and I have dated quite a few) have so little free time that there was a running joke with more than one ex about "So do you want sleep or sex tonight?"

Quote:The costs of the online law degree is not too much, about $10k a year, and my parents said that they'd pay it without repayment if I pursue it.

There are bigger costs than the price. You know....like your sanity.

Quote:That's why I'm even considering the online JD program on the side, because it may help me make money faster. I have the same reasoning behind ROTC.

Any evidence that it will actually help you make money faster?

As for the ROTC and making money.....yeah, don't. The military treats their docs like absolute dog shit. I was in a medical squadron and even with the Air Force having the best quality of life, we had four docs either attempt or succeed in suicide in two years in our squadron. This was BEFORE the massive spike in military suicides started due to the war in Iraq.

Post: #11

I'm already under a lot of academic pressure. I'm attending a high-ranking, very competitive private school. I don't sleep that much right now, due to the load of coursework. I have no problems with dealing with pressure- I operate well under it. In my mind, pressure equals a challenge, and I won't quit until I "win."

My current career plan is to attend a 4 year university or 2 year college and transfer. Afterwards, I'll apply to med school as fast as possible. I have financial support from my parents, but I still need to make money. I will probably end up taking out some student loans. I work a job already, but I need a more lucrative and efficient way to make money. Legally, of course, without sacrificing time I could be using for school.

I like the military and wanted to work in military trauma medicine, but I keep hearing these horror stories about working for the armed forces.


I'm taking any and all suggestions, it's all greatly appreciated.


Thanks!
Matt

Post: #12

You'd have to be pretty dumb to go into law school at all right now. The market for new lawyers is drying up fast. Only something like 55% of law graduates find a full time legal job.

And it's only gonna get worse as time goes on.

Post: #13

Quote:I'm already under a lot of academic pressure. I'm attending a high-ranking, very competitive private school. I don't sleep that much right now, due to the load of coursework. I have no problems with dealing with pressure- I operate well under it. In my mind, pressure equals a challenge, and I won't quit until I "win."

Yeah...if you're still in high school you have no idea what academic pressure is. I mean that with no disrespect of course but it is a completely different world, especially when you get into the clinical parts of medical school. You can be the most brilliant student or clinician but if you aren't getting enough rest or are just overtaxing yourself, you will suffer and so will your colleagues and your patients.

Quote:wanted to work in military trauma medicine

Find a way to follow a doc around at a busy trauma center. You would be amazed how many people who think they are attracted to trauma lose interest the first time they encounter a patient with widespread third degree burns or a gunshot wound to the head. Prior to getting into research, I spent several years as a medic on civilian ambulances both before and after the military and what people expect and the reality of emergency medicine and trauma are two completely different things. The first time you have a kid die right in front of you...your total outlook on the world changes and it makes what a lot of people whine about being a "bad day" seem completely and totally petty and selfish.

Post: #14

(01-05-2014 08:00 PM)internationalscientist45 Wrote:  

Quote:I'm already under a lot of academic pressure. I'm attending a high-ranking, very competitive private school. I don't sleep that much right now, due to the load of coursework. I have no problems with dealing with pressure- I operate well under it. In my mind, pressure equals a challenge, and I won't quit until I "win."

Yeah...if you're still in high school you have no idea what academic pressure is. I mean that with no disrespect of course but it is a completely different world, especially when you get into the clinical parts of medical school. You can be the most brilliant student or clinician but if you aren't getting enough rest or are just overtaxing yourself, you will suffer and so will your colleagues and your patients.

Quote:wanted to work in military trauma medicine

Find a way to follow a doc around at a busy trauma center. You would be amazed how many people who think they are attracted to trauma lose interest the first time they encounter a patient with widespread third degree burns or a gunshot wound to the head. Prior to getting into research, I spent several years as a medic on civilian ambulances both before and after the military and what people expect and the reality of emergency medicine and trauma are two completely different things. The first time you have a kid die right in front of you...your total outlook on the world changes and it makes what a lot of people whine about being a "bad day" seem completely and totally petty and selfish.

I'm grateful to be able to work with doctors at a hospital ER, it's one of the only level II trauma centers around here. I'm basically getting paid to shadow a trauma surgeon and ER doc, and to do some secretarial work. I've seen some very traumatic things, including patients passing away in front of me, but I'm generally unfazed by it. I understand that it's a part of the job, and I definitely love the field. I understand the balance of life and death. It helps that I've grown up in the hospital environment, coming from a medical family.

In terms of my workload at the moment, I have a lot on my plate, more than the many high school students in the US. I'm trying my best to make it work.

Post: #15

(01-05-2014 08:10 PM)CaliforniaSupreme Wrote:  I'm grateful to be able to work with doctors at a hospital ER, it's one of the only level II trauma centers around here. I'm basically getting paid to shadow a trauma surgeon and ER doc, and to do some secretarial work. I've seen some very traumatic things, including patients passing away in front of me, but I'm generally unfazed by it. I understand that it's a part of the job, and I definitely love the field. I understand the balance of life and death. It helps that I've grown up in the hospital environment, coming from a medical family.

In terms of my workload at the moment, I have a lot on my plate, more than the many high school students in the US. I'm trying my best to make it work.

Trying your best is all any of us can be asked to do. I just simply wanted you to go in with your eyes open. A lot of people don't and end up miserable.

All the best to you.

Post: #16

redacted

Post: #17

(01-05-2014 08:21 PM)internationalscientist45 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 08:10 PM)CaliforniaSupreme Wrote:  I'm grateful to be able to work with doctors at a hospital ER, it's one of the only level II trauma centers around here. I'm basically getting paid to shadow a trauma surgeon and ER doc, and to do some secretarial work. I've seen some very traumatic things, including patients passing away in front of me, but I'm generally unfazed by it. I understand that it's a part of the job, and I definitely love the field. I understand the balance of life and death. It helps that I've grown up in the hospital environment, coming from a medical family.

In terms of my workload at the moment, I have a lot on my plate, more than the many high school students in the US. I'm trying my best to make it work.

Trying your best is all any of us can be asked to do. I just simply wanted you to go in with your eyes open. A lot of people don't and end up miserable.

All the best to you.

Thank you for bringing up your past experiences, shedding some light on the AF docs.

I appreciate all the advice I can get, I'm all for making informed decisions!

Post: #18

I think the MD/MBA makes an awesome combo if it's right for you, and I think that depends largely on what type of medicine you end up wishing to practice. And if money is a serious goal for you, it should be the type of practice in which an MBA would be an asset.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/...it.286211/

I love the idea of these two fields of study put together. Law and medicine -- fuck no. Business and medicine -- hell yes.

Post: #19

Online JD? Please do not do something this foolish. Your resume will hit the shredder faster than you can even imagine. You will not even make the first cut. I would never in a million years consider someone with a JD from an online school or any online school. Why? because there are plenty of resumes from people who went to regular schools. No "judgement" but no one has the time to figure out if you are really smart despite the fact that you "went" to the University of Phoenix. Your resume gets 10-15 seconds....if it's not a school someone has heard of (and assuming you apply to a decent place to work) it's bye bye baby.

Also, basically what WIA said about "medical law." The only substantial way that law legitimately intersects with some non-legal subject is patent law, where you need a technical background (engineering or PhD). Otherwise these two professional schools are not even in the same universe.

Also, medical school is just the beginning of your medical education...unless you want to be in some bottom field like general practice or pediatrics. You want to do surgery? Boards, fellowships, etc. Years and years where you make shit and have no time to be an international playboy.

Basically this combination degree is a really bad idea. JD...unless you have some plus factor, don't even waste your time (and substantial money). If you're not in a top 14 school, good luck getting a job in big law (where the money is). FYI I am in big law.

Post: #20

It may be worth it if you can get a full or near-full scholarship to both the J.D. and M.D. components.

It will take you an inordinate amount of your prime years to get both.

The money you'd be making, if you are successful, you can make with either the J.D. alone or the M.D. alone, eventually.

It comes down to this: this combo requires an intensity of focus and long-term planning to pull it off. Anyone with those skills is going to be successful regardless, and can skip the heavy degrees.

Post: #21

Forget the 20 Year Plan. Settle down, graduate from high school. Apply to colleges you want to attend. Study what you're interested in. Have fun, work hard in that order. Learn a foreign language, study abroad. If your parents have money, skip the ROTC or don't incur an obligation. Go to Officer Candidate School if you're still interested in the military five years from now, or go to medical school or law school if you want. Quit sweating your long-term future.

Getting an MD to work as a JD is a dumb idea, especially for insurance companies which don't pay much. On the plaintiff side, medical malpractice is not as big and lucrative an area as the insurance company propaganda makes it out to be - most states have extra procedural barriers to medical malpractice suits, some have damage limits.

(01-05-2014 07:38 PM)internationalscientist45 Wrote:  As for the ROTC and making money.....yeah, don't. The military treats their docs like absolute dog shit. I was in a medical squadron and even with the Air Force having the best quality of life, we had four docs either attempt or succeed in suicide in two years in our squadron. This was BEFORE the massive spike in military suicides started due to the war in Iraq.

That must have been quite a unit - relatively-young MDs attempting suicide?

Post: #22

edit: nvm

Post: #23

(01-05-2014 07:11 PM)Osiris Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 06:42 PM)CaliforniaSupreme Wrote:  Good Afternoon,
http://distancelearn.about.com/od/online...school.htm

Do you guys think this is a good path to pursue after going to college? I'd like to do this along with med school and hopefully walk out of school with both degrees. Do you think the possible financial gain is worth the extreme time and effort involved in this?

Every med student I've met hasn't been able to do much else during school, same goes for most of the law students (the ones who managed to graduate, anyway). I'd also be really worried about getting a degree from a non-accredited institution, the job market for recent law school grads is over-saturated and you'd be on the absolute bottom of the barrel. Your link says it requires 864 hours of classroom time, that's not really free time you're going to have in med school.

Also, I don't know what you're majoring in, but getting the pre-reqs done for both law school and med school sounds like a lot of unnecessary work, virtually none of the pre-law and pre-med classes are going to be the same.

this stereotype only exists because the average student doesn't know how to study properly. they aren't capable in studying in focused, intense bursts and spend all day and night trying to learn material on a superficial level.

the coursework in medical school is much more fulfilling and cool then undergrad, and honestly i felt much more pressure and stress college than in med school; and even then it wasn't stressful to the point that i wasn't able to enjoy life.

i'd say 75% of these kids get into medicine not even enjoying basic sciences. couple that with pretty shitty time management, preparation, and inefficient studying skills and you have a "grinder" as my friends and i like to call them.

also, most universities require you to take a couple semesters of political science, government, history, composition, etc. regardless if you are a STEM major. if you take a couple of classes during the summer and winter breaks you should be able to easily do the pre-law requirements along with doing the pre-med requirements during the fall-spring semesters.

you'll have to work a lot harder than the average college student, but fuck it. most of those kids spend their days eating pizza and watching shit like pawn stars all day; then come 3 days before the test they pull several stress induced all nighters and end up making average grades.

Post: #24

I am impressed with CaliforniaSupreme's work ethic and confidence.

Looks like we might have another Alec Baldwin on our hands! :-)

Post: #25

I don't see an issue with this.

OP needs to find someone who has both degrees and become his apprentice. Find out everything you need to know.

If a man is willing to put in the work then I will never tell him no. Just as long as there is a goal and purpose.