Post: #1

Is the husband in this story Beta? Usually its the wife breaking up families over ridiculous reasons. Most females would have blown up, got a lawyer, and destroy the man but this woman gave him space. The article is from 2009 but I think its still relevant for today. The author is Laura Munson.

http://theweek.com/article/index/99512/h...gnored-him

Let's say you have what you believe to be a healthy marriage. You're still friends and lovers after spending more than half of your lives together. The dreams you set out to achieve in your 20s — gazing into each other's eyes in candlelit city bistros, when you were single and skinny — have for the most part come true.

Two decades later you have the 20 acres of land, the farmhouse, the children, the dogs and horses. You're the parents you said you would be, full of love and guidance. You've done it all: Disneyland, camping, Hawaii, Mexico, city living, stargazing.

Sure, you have your marital issues, but on the whole you feel so self-satisfied about how things have worked out that you would never, in your wildest nightmares, think you would hear these words from your husband one fine summer day: "I don't love you anymore. I'm not sure I ever did. I'm moving out. The kids will understand. They'll want me to be happy."

But wait. This isn't the divorce story you think it is. Neither is it a begging-him-to-stay story. It's a story about hearing your husband say, "I don't love you anymore" and deciding not to believe him. And what can happen as a result.

Here's a visual: Child throws a temper tantrum. Tries to hit his mother. But the mother doesn't hit back, lecture or punish. Instead, she ducks. Then she tries to go about her business as if the tantrum isn't happening. She doesn't "reward" the tantrum. She simply doesn't take the tantrum personally because, after all, it's not about her.

Let me be clear: I'm not saying my husband was throwing a child's tantrum. No. He was in the grip of something else — a profound and far more troubling meltdown that comes not in childhood but in midlife, when we perceive that our personal trajectory is no longer arcing reliably upward as it once did. But I decided to respond the same way I'd responded to my children's tantrums. And I kept responding to it that way. For four months.

"I don't love you anymore. I'm not sure I ever did."

His words came at me like a speeding fist, like a sucker punch, yet somehow in that moment I was able to duck. And once I recovered and composed myself, I managed to say, "I don't buy it." Because I didn't.

He drew back in surprise. Apparently he'd expected me to burst into tears, to rage at him, to threaten him with a custody battle. Or beg him to change his mind.

So he turned mean. "I don't like what you've become."

Gut-wrenching pause. How could he say such a thing? That's when I really wanted to fight. To rage. To cry. But I didn't.

Instead, a shroud of calm enveloped me, and I repeated those words: "I don't buy it."

You see, I'd recently committed to a non-negotiable understanding with myself. I'd committed to "the End of Suffering." I'd finally managed to exile the voices in my head that told me my personal happiness was only as good as my outward success, rooted in things that were often outside my control. I'd seen the insanity of that equation and decided to take responsibility for my own happiness. And I mean all of it.

My husband hadn't yet come to this understanding with himself. He had enjoyed many years of hard work, and its rewards had supported our family of four all along. But his new endeavor hadn't been going so well, and his ability to be the breadwinner was in rapid decline. He'd been miserable about this, felt useless, was losing himself emotionally and letting himself go physically. And now he wanted out of our marriage; to be done with our family.

But I wasn't buying it.

I said: "It's not age-appropriate to expect children to be concerned with their parents' happiness. Not unless you want to create co-dependents who'll spend their lives in bad relationships and therapy. There are times in every relationship when the parties involved need a break. What can we do to give you the distance you need, without hurting the family?"

"Huh?" he said.

"Go trekking in Nepal. Build a yurt in the back meadow. Turn the garage studio into a man-cave. Get that drum set you've always wanted. Anything but hurting the children and me with a reckless move like the one you're talking about."

Then I repeated my line, "What can we do to give you the distance you need, without hurting the family?"

"Huh?"

"How can we have a responsible distance?"

"I don't want distance," he said. "I want to move out."

My mind raced. Was it another woman? Drugs? Unconscionable secrets? But I stopped myself. I would not suffer.

Instead, I went to my desk, Googled "responsible separation," and came up with a list. It included things like: Who's allowed to use what credit cards? Who are the children allowed to see you with in town? Who's allowed keys to what?

I looked through the list and passed it on to him.

His response: "Keys? We don't even have keys to our house."

I remained stoic. I could see pain in his eyes. Pain I recognized.

"Oh, I see what you're doing," he said. "You're going to make me go into therapy. You're not going to let me move out. You're going to use the kids against me."

"I never said that. I just asked: What can we do to give you the distance you need ... "

"Stop saying that!"

Well, he didn't move out.

Instead, he spent the summer being unreliable. He stopped coming home at his usual 6 o'clock. He would stay out late and not call. He blew off our entire Fourth of July — the parade, the barbecue, the fireworks — to go to someone else's party. When he was at home, he was distant. He wouldn't look me in the eye. He didn't even wish me "Happy Birthday."

But I didn't play into it. I walked my line. I told the kids: "Daddy's having a hard time, as adults often do. But we're a family, no matter what." I was not going to suffer. And neither were they.

My trusted friends were irate on my behalf. "How can you just stand by and accept this behavior? Kick him out! Get a lawyer!"

I walked my line with them, too. This man was hurting, yet his problem wasn't mine to solve. In fact, I needed to get out of his way so he could solve it.

I know what you're thinking: I'm a pushover. I'm weak and scared and would put up with anything to keep the family together. I'm probably one of those women who would endure physical abuse. But I can assure you, I'm not. I load 1,500-pound horses into trailers and gallop through the high country of Montana all summer. I went through Pitocin-induced natural childbirth. And a Caesarean section without follow-up drugs. I am handy with a chain saw.

I simply had come to understand that I was not at the root of my husband's problem. He was. If he could turn his problem into a marital fight, he could make it about us. I needed to get out of the way so that wouldn't happen.

Privately, I decided to give him time. Six months.

I had good days and I had bad days. On the good days, I took the high road. I ignored his lashing out, his merciless jabs. On bad days, I would fester in the August sun while the kids ran through sprinklers, raging at him in my mind. But I never wavered. Although it may sound ridiculous to say, "Don't take it personally" when your husband tells you he no longer loves you, sometimes that's exactly what you have to do.

Instead of issuing ultimatums, yelling, crying, or begging, I presented him with options. I created a summer of fun for our family and welcomed him to share in it, or not — it was up to him. If he chose not to come along, we would miss him, but we would be just fine, thank you very much. And we were.

And, yeah, you can bet I wanted to sit him down and persuade him to stay. To love me. To fight for what we've created. You can bet I wanted to.

But I didn't.

I barbecued. Made lemonade. Set the table for four. Loved him from afar.

And one day, there he was, home from work early, mowing the lawn. A man doesn't mow his lawn if he's going to leave it. Not this man. Then he fixed a door that had been broken for eight years. He made a comment about our front porch needing paint. Our front porch. He mentioned needing wood for next winter. The future. Little by little, he started talking about the future.

It was Thanksgiving dinner that sealed it. My husband bowed his head humbly and said, "I'm thankful for my family."

He was back.

And I saw what had been missing: pride. He'd lost pride in himself. Maybe that's what happens when our egos take a hit in midlife and we realize we're not as young and golden anymore.

When life's knocked us around. And our childhood myths reveal themselves to be just that. The truth feels like the biggest sucker-punch of them all: It's not a spouse, or land, or a job, or money that brings us happiness. Those achievements, those relationships, can enhance our happiness, yes, but happiness has to start from within. Relying on any other equation can be lethal.

My husband had become lost in the myth. But he found his way out. We've since had the hard conversations. In fact, he encouraged me to write about our ordeal. To help other couples who arrive at this juncture in life. People who feel scared and stuck. Who believe their temporary feelings are permanent. Who see an easy out and think they can escape.

My husband tried to strike a deal. Blame me for his pain. Unload his feelings of personal disgrace onto me.

But I ducked. And I waited. And it worked.

This essay originally appeared in The New York Times. Used with permission. All rights reserved.

Post: #2

She acted very honorably, especially considering how rare it is for an American woman to flout the advice of her crone cronies.

Him? He was petty, childish and self-destructive. I hate the term beta, but there was nothing commendable about how he behaved. He was fortunate enough to have a wife who overpowered his near self-annihilation.

Post: #3

From what is written, he's a cunt.

But this is only one side of the story.

Post: #4

This part is very telling:

Quote:You see, I'd recently committed to a non-negotiable understanding with myself. I'd committed to "the End of Suffering." I'd finally managed to exile the voices in my head that told me my personal happiness was only as good as my outward success, rooted in things that were often outside my control. I'd seen the insanity of that equation and decided to take responsibility for my own happiness. And I mean all of it.

My husband hadn't yet come to this understanding with himself. He had enjoyed many years of hard work, and its rewards had supported our family of four all along. But his new endeavor hadn't been going so well, and his ability to be the breadwinner was in rapid decline. He'd been miserable about this, felt useless, was losing himself emotionally and letting himself go physically. And now he wanted out of our marriage; to be done with our family.

Wife had a change in her personality. Husband went through a crisis. Wife stayed a mature adult through the whole thing. Husband came around.

This is how a marriage is supposed to work. Nobody is on their A-game 100% of the time. Your partner is there to cover you when you're not your best and you cover them when they're not their best. Between two people one of you should be on it all the time.

Post: #5

Lauren Munson holds seminars with her husband for couples on how to get through rough patches. I imagine this is a real picture of marriage. People have their ups and downs but the common American woman has fallen for the Disneyland/Fairytale version of marriage which they believe the endorphins are flowing 24 hours a day and everyone is happy all the time.

Post: #6

This is how it used to go: Things are sometimes difficult, you endure it, work it out and become once again happy.

Nowadays, we need the fairy tale: We should always be happy, the other should be perfect, or we run.

Throwaway Consumer Products, instead of your Life Partner.

Nice reminder that NAWALT. Happy new year.

Post: #7

10/10 WM (would marry)

I hope I meet a chick like that. I'd definitely need that sort of grounding in my marriage for it to last.

NAWALT... puts a smile on my face

Post: #8

(01-02-2014 09:39 AM)frenchie Wrote:  10/10 WM (would marry)

I hope I meet a chick like that. I'd definitely need that sort of grounding in my marriage for it to last.

NAWALT... puts a smile on my face

Yeah that midlife crisis thing sucks, I've seen quite a few marriages destroyed by it, my own of 24 years included. The media always plays it up as a male thing, but in my circle it's been the wives that have pulled the "Eat, Pray, Love" thing, not the men. With women it's generally when menopause kicks in that causes it, they truly lose their minds and they almost never come back as anything but a last resort, no where else to go. It's a dirty little secret that almost never is discussed regarding marriage, your woman at about 40-45 will become someone you or your kids won't even recognize.

Post: #9

"My husband had a mid-life crisis and somehow its still all about myself"

Goes on and on about HER strenght, HER calmness, HER support, HER help, all what was needed to save HER family.

Yeah, it worked out in the end, but im still not buying it.

So the "beta" (is there such a thing as "alpha" or "beta" even?) husband wanted out and she held her ground and the dude stayed. Does that makes her strong or just stronger than him?

And, will she respect him after that? Will he still be king in his castle? Is she still his rock, or is she just a rock that wont let you leave?

Post: #10

^lol I knew there'd be someone to spin the woman as a villain, I just didn't know who.

Post: #11

The guy didn't know what he wanted by the sounds of things and left it for his wife to make the decision for him. If she'd reacted in the way he initially thought, I bet they'd have divorced and he'd be left wishing for things to go back the way they were once he was living in his own little place, seeing the kids every other weekend and spending his evenings on dating sites.

She was in the right, massively, and was mature enough and intelligent enough to recognise what was going on with him and stuck by him. That's pretty much the exact definition of the kind of girl all guys on this forum and manosphere in general want.

He had no direction. It's like he was asking permission for a divorce and needed to get something out of his system. Sounds like he did, and fair do's to his wife for holding onto things.

Post: #12

(01-02-2014 10:58 AM)germanico Wrote:  "My husband had a mid-life crisis and somehow its still all about myself"

Goes on and on about HER strenght, HER calmness, HER support, HER help, all what was needed to save HER family.

Yeah, it worked out in the end, but im still not buying it.

So the "beta" (is there such a thing as "alpha" or "beta" even?) husband wanted out and she held her ground and the dude stayed. Does that makes her strong or just stronger than him?

And, will she respect him after that? Will he still be king in his castle? Is she still his rock, or is she just a rock that wont let you leave?

I was waiting for one of the jaded posters to comment. I give credit were credit is due. Most American women would have listened to their bitter friends, filed for divorce, and try to take EVERYTHING by saying that her husband was "emotionally" abusive. She stayed when society encourages women to throw in the towel.

Post: #13

I like the story it sounds like the makings of a good chick flick.

Post: #14

Guy probably wanted some kind of change from his wife. Marriedmansexlife.com would have helped both of them out a lot.

Post: #15

Good on the wife. Congrats to her for standing firm through thick and thin like she promised. Due respect.

Guy - eh, coulda handled it better.

Post: #16

Gentlemen, this is how a woman breaks you down. The guy is miserable, hounded by a harridian in a loveless, sexless marriage. No? Why did he want to go, then? She's isolated him socially, he never sees his friends. Maybe I'm wrong but statistically it's more likely than not. He made one last go at freedom and happiness but it's late in the game, he has no support network, he's lost his youth, and his confidence has been shattered by years of quiet desperation and by the lack of a frame of reference to understand why he's miserable.

She just wears him down slowly over the months, laying some heavy guilt trip on him. Sort of like in Seinfeld, the episode where George tried to break up with his girlfriend and she says 'no'.

This story is a tragedy, like as if in The Truman show he gave up and never got out of the dome. Beware idolizing marriage or your wife could be telling this story about you one day. I don't want to go all Mark Minter here, but the problem is that when a woman feels secure she stops trying. Marriage makes a woman feel secure. Kids increase that sense of security, most men want to do the right thing by their kids and will tolerate a lot for their sake. Given the modern divorce industry, that if he leaves he will lose half his money for the rest of his life, that his access to his children will be subject to her whim, given these things do you realize how miserable a situation has to be for a man to risk all of that?

And it pains me to think of how she punished him after his capitulation.

Post: #17

I have serious problems with believing this story. It sounds like a love child of a female hamster and "what I wanted to happen" fantasy.

If it's true then the husband is a loser, but the lines and reactions are delivered in moments that are too perfect, as someone wrote above: just like a chick flick.

Post: #18

(01-03-2014 05:14 AM)atahualpa Wrote:  Gentlemen, this is how a woman breaks you down. The guy is miserable, hounded by a harridian in a loveless, sexless marriage. No? Why did he want to go, then? She's isolated him socially, he never sees his friends. Maybe I'm wrong but statistically it's more likely than not. He made one last go at freedom and happiness but it's late in the game, he has no support network, he's lost his youth, and his confidence has been shattered by years of quiet desperation and by the lack of a frame of reference to understand why he's miserable.

She just wears him down slowly over the months, laying some heavy guilt trip on him. Sort of like in Seinfeld, the episode where George tried to break up with his girlfriend and she says 'no'.

This story is a tragedy, like as if in The Truman show he gave up and never got out of the dome. Beware idolizing marriage or your wife could be telling this story about you one day. I don't want to go all Mark Minter here, but the problem is that when a woman feels secure she stops trying. Marriage makes a woman feel secure. Kids increase that sense of security, most men want to do the right thing by their kids and will tolerate a lot for their sake. Given the modern divorce industry, that if he leaves he will lose half his money for the rest of his life, that his access to his children will be subject to her whim, given these things do you realize how miserable a situation has to be for a man to risk all of that?

And it pains me to think of how she punished him after his capitulation.

This seems like completely opposite to the actual way the story turns out. From what I gather, the guy actually went out and started hanging out with his friends again, started getting his own life, and eventually started to feel like a contributory party to a mutually beneficial marriage again. Furthermore, I think the way that the article was written was handled with respect and love to the author's husband. She took no joy in his misery, and made a tough but necessary decision to stay the course and keep the family together when women are all too quick to pull the big D card and run over the guy roughshod.

Come on. Credit where credit is due. I get that a lot of guys here have some resentment toward women, but resenting good women is not the answer.

Post: #19

Of course, if it's bullshit or it's completely misrepresentative of what actually happened, then whatever. But we'll never know that.

Post: #20

"She just wears him down slowly over the months, laying some heavy guilt trip on him. Sort of like in Seinfeld, the episode where George tried to break up with his girlfriend and she says 'no'."

That's a good thing if there are kids involved. If you swapped the sexes in your post, you'd sound like some divorce-happy empowered woman.

I don't recommend a female led household if only because most men and women are unsuited to it. But if you have a very mature woman and an unstable man as in this story, a female led household is a good thing.

As a man, if you're gonna be a bitch, it's only fair and proper that you get treated like one.

Post: #21

Quote:Let's say you have what you believe to be a healthy marriage. You're still friends and lovers after spending more than half of your lives together. The dreams you set out to achieve in your 20s — gazing into each other's eyes in candlelit city bistros, when you were single and skinny — have for the most part come true.

Sounds like she got fat.

Post: #22

(01-03-2014 05:40 AM)aphelion Wrote:  This seems like completely opposite to the actual way the story turns out. From what I gather, the guy actually went out and started hanging out with his friends again, started getting his own life, and eventually started to feel like a contributory party to a mutually beneficial marriage again. Furthermore, I think the way that the article was written was handled with respect and love to the author's husband. She took no joy in his misery, and made a tough but necessary decision to stay the course and keep the family together when women are all too quick to pull the big D card and run over the guy roughshod.

Come on. Credit where credit is due. I get that a lot of guys here have some resentment toward women, but resenting good women is not the answer.

Yea, it's like we aren't reading the same article. By my read he went out with his friends for a little while, then capitulated to her. These were two distinct stages, and the hanging out with people other than her circle of friends was part of his 'temper tantrum' as she put it, not part of some sort of growth ending in his. 'Temper tantrum', yea, real respectful. I read no introspection, no speculation about what might have been wrong, what might have driven him to leave her. Instead she heard that he wanted to leave, and she pursued the ideal strategy to wear him down while simultaneously getting to play the victim/martyr to the friends, and most importantly, while doing no introspection and changing nothing that might have been bothering him.

Do you really think it was respectful to publish her 'how I tamed a man' story for his failure and humiliation to be told to the entire readership of the NYT? I reiterate: why did he want to leave? Knowing that he is risking his financial future, his access to children and possibly his liberty, do you really think he was just doing an Eat Pray Love? To me there is no comparison to a woman leaving her husband because there is such an enormous difference in the risk that each or them are taking. Despite all of the feminist tropes, a man won't leave a wife for trivial reasons because of the magnitude of the consequences that simply aren't there for a woman. Woman wants to leave her husband: she keeps the kids, the house, and half of his money for the rest of her life. A man looses all of that. Think about it before you buy her story hook like and sinker. Again: why did he want to leave? You may not have noticed before, but women do a terrific job of playing the martyr.

We wouldn't be reading this story if she was a 'good one' because he wouldn't have been so desperately unhappy as to risk so much just to be able to go out a bit and see friends. If he felt love and respect none of it would have happened, guaranteed. I give her credit, but I can read between the lines. She's good at what she does and now her control is complete. I guarantee you there is no sex, no love and no respect in this marriage.

Post: #23

So the guy came around in the end. Now how would this story have played out if they had swapped positions and he denied her a divorce? Hmm.