Post: #1

I am a huge Peter Hitchens fan. But I understand if most of you are not.

Still - I thought some of the members might enjoy the 90 minute talk he gave entitled 'Why I like Vladimir Putin'.

Nobody else in the western media ever has anything good to say about him. So it is novel hearing an alternative point of view.





I haven't had a chance to watch it yet. But I will post back when I do.

Post: #2

I too haven't watched it, but I know I'll like it if I do. I've told you before how I'm a fan of Peter Hitchens.

Post: #3

Found a nice meme.



Good to hear from you, Teedub. I hope you had a good xmas!

Post: #4

Yeah it was good thanks mate, hope you did too.

Post: #5

   

Seeing Christopher trounce Peter in a debate a couple years before he died was one of the great joys of my life. I can't stand that reactionary fool, Peter.

Russell Brand makes short work of him here, as well:

Post: #6

Thanks for posting that. It was very interesting. I like Peter Hitchens, even when I don't always agree with him or when I find he can come off being anachronistic. He is a national treasure in your country and very underrated.

The coughing in the video was really annoying. A lot of the time it was already hard enough to hear some of the questions from the audience, but the coughing meant I missed some bits entirely.

Post: #7

(12-26-2013 10:51 PM)Farmageddon Wrote:  Russell Brand makes short work of him here, as well:

Brand, whilst exceptionally good with women, has really begun to piss me off since he declared himself some kind of political revolutionary. He's a hipsterish hypocrite, a champagne socialist, and it irritates me how he's given all this airtime to preach his politics, when someone like Noam Chomsky can do it far more eloquently and intelligently.

Post: #8

(12-26-2013 08:42 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

That just about sums 90% of our manosphere philosophy.

Post: #9

Pretty good lecture by Peter. I too don't totally agree with everything Peter says, but he does make good points in regard to invading countries. I wish more people, especially here in America, had his worldview in regards to foreign policy.

Post: #10

(12-27-2013 04:04 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 10:51 PM)Farmageddon Wrote:  Russell Brand makes short work of him here, as well:

Brand, whilst exceptionally good with women, has really begun to piss me off since he declared himself some kind of political revolutionary. He's a hipsterish hypocrite, a champagne socialist, and it irritates me how he's given all this airtime to preach his politics, when someone like Noam Chomsky can do it far more eloquently and intelligently.

I cant stand Rusell Brand voice tone. It sound to high pitched.

Post: #11

@Farmaggedon: I like Christopher Hitchens as a person and as a figure who adds to the gaity of the nation. But I have never rated him as a writer or as a debator. And I am familiar with most of what he has produced.

But he does have some lovely flourishes. This was one of my favourite moments:





I think Christopher Hitchens suffered because he had an amazing voice. Some people are blessed with an amazing voice (think Don Draper from 'Mad Men').

And as a result - everything they say sounds wise, polished and compelling to the audience.

But as a result of that. It is very easy to get lazy in your debating techniques - since the audience loves you pretty much whatever you say. Particularly in America where he is a 'rock star' to the atheists.

And that filters into your writing since your ego starts to believe that your every utterance comes out fully formed and perfect.

I believe Stephen Fry has the same problem here in the UK - since his accent adds a level of seeming wisdom to what he says whether it is merited or not.

When I debate people I try and adapt my mannerisms to that of a bratty child. Since I want to win people purely by the strength of my argument and nothing else. It is fun when it works since there is nothing worse for a sensible adult than having to agree with a childish twat like me.

As for Christopher Hitchens - this was a good summing up of his writing by one of my favourite journalists here in the UK:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyo...aloon-bar/

Post: #12

@Farmageddon - as for that Hitchens V Hitchens debate. Peter Hitchens speaker was broken so he couldn't actually hear what Christopher was saying. Not that it mattered since he tended to say the same thing at each of those debates.

I am an atheist myself. But I think there is no way for atheists and religious people to have a proper debate.

You either believe that there is a God who is capable of doing miracles which leave no evidence behind. Or you do not. There isn't much room for debate really. And in the past 200 years I have yet to see a knock out blow by either side. The interesting thing is that religious people are open to the idea that there may not be a God. And openly say that there belief rests mostly on faith. Whereas atheists tend to come in with the attitude that they are 100% certain and there is no doubt in their mind.

That is an interesting difference in approach. And suggests to me that many atheists want there not to be a God just as much as many religious people want there to be a God.

And I say all that as an atheist.

Post: #13

Peter Hitchens is a smart guy who was actually an atheist for most of his adult life. Check out his book, The Rage Against God: How Atheism led me to faith.

Smug and self-assured atheists (ie not cardguy) often forget that the vast majority of intelligent people throughout human history were theists. That doesn't mean God exists, but it does mean young guys with crappy educations (ie us) should think very very hard before outright dismissing the supernatural.

Post: #14

I always use this phrase.

I'm an atheist. But I don't make a religion out of it.

Cardguy

PS A serious question that most theists never consider is this. They mostly assume God is good. Some of the Eastern traditions consider imagine God as being indifferent to human affairs and therefore amoral.

But what about the third possibility?

What if God is evil? And what if when we die he laughs in our face and spends all eternity torturing each and everyone of us? One of the reasons I am okay with there not being a God is that there is no guarantee that God is actually a good being. The being that creates the universe could be good, indifferent or bad. And there is no way of being sure which.

Post: #15

I listened to most of it, he didn't break any new ground. Most of it was Q & A, so I never did get to find out why he like Putin.

Post: #16

I should add that Jesus Christ is a fucking legend. The message he preached was so simple, powerful and profound. And if atheists (such as myself) are honest - it is not one that you hear regularly from non-atheist traditions.

It is not just about treating others as you want them to treat you. It is about loving others with careless abandon. And making a point of loving those who least 'deserve' it more than any other.

That is a very powerful message.

And when it comes to working in the community and doing charity work. The religious people really do outnumber the atheists.

Post: #17

@ColSpanker: Yeah - to be honest it wasn't classic Hitchens. But thought it might be of interest here since there is more interest in Putin on this forum than in most places.

Post: #18

Always liked Christopher better than Peter.