Post: #1

Great article by Camille Paglia, who I think is an old school feminist and lesbian.

Quote:It’s a Man’s World, And It Always Will Be

The modern economy is a male epic, in which women have found a productive role—but women were not its author

By Camille Paglia Dec. 16, 2013 104 Comments

If men are obsolete, then women will soon be extinct—unless we rush down that ominous Brave New World path where females will clone themselves by parthenogenesis, as famously do Komodo dragons, hammerhead sharks, and pit vipers.

A peevish, grudging rancor against men has been one of the most unpalatable and unjust features of second- and third-wave feminism. Men’s faults, failings and foibles have been seized on and magnified into gruesome bills of indictment. Ideologue professors at our leading universities indoctrinate impressionable undergraduates with carelessly fact-free theories alleging that gender is an arbitrary, oppressive fiction with no basis in biology.

Is it any wonder that so many high-achieving young women, despite all the happy talk about their academic success, find themselves in the early stages of their careers in chronic uncertainty or anxiety about their prospects for an emotionally fulfilled private life? When an educated culture routinely denigrates masculinity and manhood, then women will be perpetually stuck with boys, who have no incentive to mature or to honor their commitments. And without strong men as models to either embrace or (for dissident lesbians) to resist, women will never attain a centered and profound sense of themselves as women.

From my long observation, which predates the sexual revolution, this remains a serious problem afflicting Anglo-American society, with its Puritan residue. In France, Italy, Spain, Latin America, and Brazil, in contrast, many ambitious professional women seem to have found a formula for asserting power and authority in the workplace while still projecting sexual allure and even glamor. This is the true feminine mystique, which cannot be taught but flows from an instinctive recognition of sexual differences. In today’s punitive atmosphere of sentimental propaganda about gender, the sexual imagination has understandably fled into the alternate world of online pornography, where the rude but exhilarating forces of primitive nature rollick unconstrained by religious or feminist moralism.

It was always the proper mission of feminism to attack and reconstruct the ossified social practices that had led to wide-ranging discrimination against women. But surely it was and is possible for a progressive reform movement to achieve that without stereotyping, belittling, or demonizing men. History must be seen clearly and fairly: obstructive traditions arose not from men’s hatred or enslavement of women but from the natural division of labor that had developed over thousands of years during the agrarian period and that once immensely benefited and protected women, permitting them to remain at the hearth to care for helpless infants and children. Over the past century, it was labor-saving appliances, invented by men and spread by capitalism, that liberated women from daily drudgery.

What is troubling in too many books and articles by feminist journalists in the U.S. is, despite their putative leftism, an implicit privileging of bourgeois values and culture. The particular focused, clerical and managerial skills of the upper-middle-class elite are presented as the highest desideratum, the ultimate evolutionary point of humanity. Yes, there has been a gradual transition from an industrial to a service-sector economy in which women, who generally prefer a safe, clean, quiet work environment thrive.

But the triumphalism among some, such as Hanna Rosin in her book, “The End of Men,” about women’s gains seems startlingly premature, such as when Rosin says of the sagging fortunes of today’s working-class couples that they and we had “reached the end of a hundred thousand years of human history and the beginning of a new era, and there was no going back.” This sweeping appeal to history somehow overlooks history’s far darker lessons about the cyclic rise and fall of civilizations, which as they become more complex and interconnected also become more vulnerable to collapse. The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.

After the next inevitable apocalypse, men will be desperately needed again! Oh, sure, there will be the odd gun-toting Amazonian survivalist gal, who can rustle game out of the bush and feed her flock, but most women and children will be expecting men to scrounge for food and water and to defend the home turf. Indeed, men are absolutely indispensable right now, invisible as it is to most feminists, who seem blind to the infrastructure that makes their own work lives possible. It is overwhelmingly men who do the dirty, dangerous work of building roads, pouring concrete, laying bricks, tarring roofs, hanging electric wires, excavating natural gas and sewage lines, cutting and clearing trees, and bulldozing the landscape for housing developments. It is men who heft and weld the giant steel beams that frame our office buildings, and it is men who do the hair-raising work of insetting and sealing the finely tempered plate-glass windows of skyscrapers 50 stories tall.

Every day along the Delaware River in Philadelphia, one can watch the passage of vast oil tankers and towering cargo ships arriving from all over the world. These stately colossi are loaded, steered, and off-loaded by men. The modern economy, with its vast production and distribution network, is a male epic, in which women have found a productive role—but women were not its author. Surely, modern women are strong enough now to give credit where credit is due!



Read more: It’s a Man’s World, And It Always Will Be | TIME.com http://ideas.time.com/2013/12/16/its-a-m...z2nfdy52UV

Post: #2

I'm glad there are elder statesmen dissidents within the ranks of feminism saying "Stop this sisters! This is nuts!"

Post: #3

Everything you see was invented, built and delivered by a man.

Post: #4

This article may make men feel good, but it is 100% wrong. Men, through our own creative genius, have created the technological advancements which have led to our own destruction-- politically, economically, and culturally etc. The trend is not on our side and with technology our own decline is being accelerated.

Technology, reduces the need for male power and strength and enables weak women to compete with men. For example, women in the military-- Impossible in Roman times where you had to actually had to have physical strength to stab someone in the chest with a sword. Now with drones and firearms women can just as effectively kill because warfare has been reduced to pulling a trigger/operating a joystick with drones.

The decline in manual labor, manufacturing, etc has disproportionately hurt men. Only men could operate the heavy physical equipment. Now with automation and robotics. A woman can sit in a cubicle and push a few buttons and accomplish what it took 50 men to do 100 yrs ago.

Women have successfully appropriated man's creation (technology) and used it against him.

Men are not in control anymore, especially, when women can vote in whichever sugar-daddy (President) who promises them the most government candy--(thank you Woodrow Wilson you piece of garbage)

Post: #5

(12-16-2013 04:03 PM)Flavius Aetius Wrote:  This article may make men feel good, but it is 100% wrong. Men, through our own creative genius, have created the technological advancements which have led to our own destruction-- politically, economically, and culturally etc. The trend is not on our side and with technology our own decline is being accelerated.

Technology, reduces the need for male power and strength and enables weak women to compete with men. For example, women in the military-- Impossible in Roman times where you had to actually had to have physical strength to stab someone in the chest with a sword. Now with drones and firearms women can just as effectively kill because warfare has been reduced to pulling a trigger/operating a joystick with drones.

The decline in manual labor, manufacturing, etc has disproportionately hurt men. Only men could operate the heavy physical equipment. Now with automation and robotics. A woman can sit in a cubicle and push a few buttons and accomplish what it took 50 men to do 100 yrs ago.

Women have successfully appropriated man's creation (technology) and used it against him.

Men are not in control anymore, especially, when women can vote in whichever sugar-daddy (President) who promises them the most government candy--(thank you Woodrow Wilson you piece of garbage)

There is a lot of truth to this. However, it will always be men that keep that technology and innovation coming into the future. And it will be men who create companies that employ people in large numbers. By and large, women are not creators of jobs.

But if we ever had to return the law of the jungle where civilization is built upon muscle, intimidation and brute force, feminism will die on the vine. Feminism is only possible with technology as a leverage.

Post: #6

(12-16-2013 04:03 PM)Flavius Aetius Wrote:  This article may make men feel good, but it is 100% wrong. Men, through our own creative genius, have created the technological advancements which have led to our own destruction-- politically, economically, and culturally etc. The trend is not on our side and with technology our own decline is being accelerated.

Technology, reduces the need for male power and strength and enables weak women to compete with men. For example, women in the military-- Impossible in Roman times where you had to actually had to have physical strength to stab someone in the chest with a sword. Now with drones and firearms women can just as effectively kill because warfare has been reduced to pulling a trigger/operating a joystick with drones.

The decline in manual labor, manufacturing, etc has disproportionately hurt men. Only men could operate the heavy physical equipment. Now with automation and robotics. A woman can sit in a cubicle and push a few buttons and accomplish what it took 50 men to do 100 yrs ago.

Women have successfully appropriated man's creation (technology) and used it against him.

Men are not in control anymore, especially, when women can vote in whichever sugar-daddy (President) who promises them the most government candy--(thank you Woodrow Wilson you piece of garbage)

Yet all of this is completely unsustainable economically. Just in case you haven't recently, take a look at this (as merely one indicator). Of course, in the short term, things can limp along for some time and timing that is very difficult. In the long term (say, three generations, tops), I have absolutely no doubt that the house of cards that is the modern woman's existence in the West will come tumbling down.

Post: #7

A wiseman wrote somewhere that an empire goes through three phases Agricultural, Industrial and Financial then decline. Flavius, submit your post to ROK lad.

Post: #8

(12-16-2013 04:03 PM)Flavius Aetius Wrote:  This article may make men feel good, but it is 100% wrong. Men, through our own creative genius, have created the technological advancements which have led to our own destruction-- politically, economically, and culturally etc. The trend is not on our side and with technology our own decline is being accelerated.

Technology, reduces the need for male power and strength and enables weak women to compete with men. For example, women in the military-- Impossible in Roman times where you had to actually had to have physical strength to stab someone in the chest with a sword. Now with drones and firearms women can just as effectively kill because warfare has been reduced to pulling a trigger/operating a joystick with drones.

The decline in manual labor, manufacturing, etc has disproportionately hurt men. Only men could operate the heavy physical equipment. Now with automation and robotics. A woman can sit in a cubicle and push a few buttons and accomplish what it took 50 men to do 100 yrs ago.

Women have successfully appropriated man's creation (technology) and used it against him.

Men are not in control anymore, especially, when women can vote in whichever sugar-daddy (President) who promises them the most government candy--(thank you Woodrow Wilson you piece of garbage)

There is a lot of truth in what you are saying---but your post assumes that the current state of affairs (ie, the prosperity, rapid technological advancement, etc) is sustainable indefinitely. This is a precisely what Paglia is arguing against. She is saying that what we have now is unsustainable because human civilization undergoes a cyclical process, not a linear one.

Post: #9

(12-16-2013 03:14 PM)Dusty Wrote:  And without strong men as models to either embrace or (for dissident lesbians) to resist, women will never attain a centered and profound sense of themselves as women.

I think many woman know this fact and want to fight it.

The only way a woman can feel like a woman is to be with a man that evokes those feelings in her. A Man dont need a woman to feel like a Man BUT women need a Man to feel like a woman.

Men validate a woman feminine existence.


Good read overall.

Post: #10

(12-16-2013 09:34 PM)Intl_Rasta Wrote:  Good read overall.

The good thing too, this is a prominent first wave feminist who has observed the movement go off the rails. She sees the same harmful shit we see.

Post: #11

The late great poet James Brown said it best too: This is a Man's World

Post: #12

(12-16-2013 09:47 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

(12-16-2013 09:34 PM)Intl_Rasta Wrote:  Good read overall.

The good thing too, this is a prominent first wave feminist who has observed the movement go off the rails. She sees the same harmful shit we see.

I'd say second wave.

Post: #13

Yep. We got them feminists on the run now!

Post: #14

Judgy Bitch breaks down Jezebel's response.

http://judgybitch.com/2013/12/17/jezebel...-them-out/

Post: #15

(12-16-2013 03:58 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Everything you see was invented, built and delivered by a man.

The majority of everything you see was invented and built by the....white man.

Post: #16

Post: #17

It's all patriarchy until somebody has to show up at 2am to fix your plumbing.

Post: #18

(12-17-2013 03:59 PM)EisenBarde Wrote:  It's all patriarchy until somebody has to show up at 2am to fix your plumbing.

Or kill the spider in the kitchen

Post: #19

(12-17-2013 04:34 PM)kosko Wrote:  Or kill the spider in the kitchen

Or to get helped out when the car breaks down

Post: #20

(12-17-2013 11:22 AM)runsonmagic Wrote:  Judgy Bitch breaks down Jezebel's response.

http://judgybitch.com/2013/12/17/jezebel...-them-out/

It's incredible how stupid Jezebel's response is. It's literally all snark and empty cliches, not a single argument or even an attempt to make sense. It depresses me that these lunatics have such a stranglehold on public opinion.

Post: #21

(12-17-2013 04:48 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

(12-17-2013 04:34 PM)kosko Wrote:  Or kill the spider in the kitchen

Or to get helped out when the car breaks down

Or on a sinking cruise ship with limited lifeboats lol http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cos...ash-158694

Post: #22

I have a little theory related to this: Alphas compete, betas build.

I think all men have a desire to both compete with other men and to build something, but I imagine certain types of guys lean one way or another if they can. Sports and sales are more competitive, engineering is more about building or creating.

Post: #23

(12-16-2013 04:03 PM)Flavius Aetius Wrote:  This article may make men feel good, but it is 100% wrong. Men, through our own creative genius, have created the technological advancements which have led to our own destruction-- politically, economically, and culturally etc. The trend is not on our side and with technology our own decline is being accelerated.

Technology, reduces the need for male power and strength and enables weak women to compete with men. For example, women in the military-- Impossible in Roman times where you had to actually had to have physical strength to stab someone in the chest with a sword. Now with drones and firearms women can just as effectively kill because warfare has been reduced to pulling a trigger/operating a joystick with drones.

The decline in manual labor, manufacturing, etc has disproportionately hurt men. Only men could operate the heavy physical equipment. Now with automation and robotics. A woman can sit in a cubicle and push a few buttons and accomplish what it took 50 men to do 100 yrs ago.

Women have successfully appropriated man's creation (technology) and used it against him.

Men are not in control anymore, especially, when women can vote in whichever sugar-daddy (President) who promises them the most government candy--(thank you Woodrow Wilson you piece of garbage)

Women have successfully appropriated SOME OF man's creation (technology) and used it against him.

They will never build the buildings we live and work in, create the roads and air-strips we use for travel, or deliver and install the appliances we use. Nor will they maintain such things. And if it hasn't been invented yet, odds are they won't be dreaming it up.

What they mostly do is PROMOTE men's creations which is why so many women are in PR. In much the way wives used to brag about their husbands, professional women now get paid to do the same type of bragging about corporations.

On some level women know this (and if they don't, they'll know it after reading this). Their knowledge of this is why they're often so angry. As Paglia wrote, we now socialize them to be men, but they're not.

PS: A lot of Paglia's points seem taken from discussions in the manosphere. I've long been saying things like "Look around -- if it exists a man dreamed it up and built it." IMO Paglia is doing reading in these parts and WSJ writer James Taranto is reading Roissy.

Post: #24