Post: #1

I don't think has been posted here before--certainly not as its own thread--but it's worth listening to. It's a complete evisceration of the silliness of the "teach men not rape" argument, the common belief that women bear no responsibility for their own safety, and the assumption that being drunk absolves women (but not men) of their behavior.

It's long, but it's worth listening/watching.

0:49 - "the largest straw man here is that we don't teach our children not to rape."

1:19 - "why do you put a lock on your front door when theft is against the law...why not teach your children not to steal?"

6:08 - "Drunk or not, you are responsible for your own actions...you cannot simply drive drunk...and say 'I wouldn't have driven that way when I was sober!'."

8:02 - "the statement implies that women have no agency of their own...no ability to effect the outcome by taking sensible precautions."

13:18 - "your choice of clothes is a statement about yourself"

13:37 - "if you dress and act erotically, if you put on the body-language of foreplay....but actually have no interest in such things, you are increasing the chances that someone will misread the signs as interest or sexual initiation."

16:30 - "the people who have badly scarred by such events are probably not the best people to give advice on such subjects."

16:53 - "telling young women that they should be paranoid that all men that they meet are potential rapists and should never be trusted is not something that is going to increase the number of [fulfilling relationships]."

It goes on like this.

Post: #2

I'll watch it at home since I don't have sound at work.

Completely non-sequiter but the internet meme thing never ceases to amuse me. You think Gene Wilder would have ever imagined his Willy Wonka scene "Tell Me More..." would be used for this purpose 30 years ago?

Post: #3

The go-to response is "Rape and theft are different." If pressed, usual follow-up goes along the lines of "They just are."

Which is when I call myself an idiot for debating a woman and resolve to be smarter next time.

Post: #4

I have noticed this argument being increasingly demolished in the past year. There has been nothing out of the feminist sphere (e.g. wage gap myth, rape myths, patriarchy myths) that hasn't been effectively countered with logic or reason.

Post: #5

(12-08-2013 04:42 PM)Roosh Wrote:  I have noticed this argument being increasingly demolished in the past year. There has been nothing out of the feminist sphere (e.g. wage gap myth, rape myths, patriarchy myths) that hasn't been effectively countered with logic or reason.

Me too, but the Jezebel's of this world shame the MSM for even publishing the studies, effectively slamming the DM (for example) for 'saying' it, rather than refuting the evidence. It's an extension of the "Wow, just wow" thing we see on Twitter.

Post: #6

(12-08-2013 04:07 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  I'll watch it at home since I don't have sound at work.

Completely non-sequiter but the internet meme thing never ceases to amuse me. You think Gene Wilder would have ever imagined his Willy Wonka scene "Tell Me More..." would be used for this purpose 30 years ago?

I love these internet memes.

Cartoons in the newspaper never make me laugh.

Internet memes make me laugh most of the time.

It seems the next step in this type of 'one gag' humour.

Post: #7

(12-08-2013 04:07 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  I'll watch it at home since I don't have sound at work.

Completely non-sequiter but the internet meme thing never ceases to amuse me. You think Gene Wilder would have ever imagined his Willy Wonka scene "Tell Me More..." would be used for this purpose 30 years ago?

There is a Willy Wonka before Johnny Depp?



I know, I know, I'm young...

Post: #8

This is the same dude, Thunderfoot, who tore apart that feminist gaming critic awhile ago.

Post: #9

(12-08-2013 04:42 PM)Roosh Wrote:  I have noticed this argument being increasingly demolished in the past year. There has been nothing out of the feminist sphere (e.g. wage gap myth, rape myths, patriarchy myths) that hasn't been effectively countered with logic or reason.

It's staggering that even the Bible has more logical and historical clout than feminism. No offense to religious folks.

Post: #10

(12-08-2013 04:42 PM)Roosh Wrote:  I have noticed this argument being increasingly demolished in the past year. There has been nothing out of the feminist sphere (e.g. wage gap myth, rape myths, patriarchy myths) that hasn't been effectively countered with logic or reason.

Yup.

Which is why they are pushing towards draconian measures such as censorship to make sure the rest of their shoddy mantra can't be busted anymore.

Post: #11

(12-08-2013 05:02 PM)kbell Wrote:  This is the same dude, Thunderfoot, who tore apart that feminist gaming critic awhile ago.

Yeah, thunderfoot is almost a manosphere member at this point. In the last year he's done more anti-feminism videos than anti-religion videos. He started with "Why feminism is poisoning atheism" and most recently it was "Why feminism poisons EVERYTHING".

My kind of guy.

Post: #12

Here in DC, there's a problem with smartphones getting snatched on the metro. So, they put a bunch of advertisements telling people to be careful with them, watch their sorrounding, and don't have it out in a place where someone could grab it and dash. The ads are focused on the potential victims of the crimes, not the criminals. Presumably, someone who has made the decision to steal from people on the metro is a hardened criminal is not going to be educated. So we focus on educating people on how not to be a victim. Amazingly, this isn't controversial and nobody says this is victim shaming. That we focus on potential victims is just seen as common sense.

There are men who would commit real rape. There are men out there would violently force a woman to have sex against her will. There are men who would have sex with a woman who is passed out drunk. But these men are criminals, and depraved ones are that. Most men would never consider violently taking a girl, most men wouldn't find any pleasure in banging a girl who is passed out drunk or is way too far gone. Anybody who is that depraved is too far gone to be edcuated by a "raping is wrong" message, there would be no point in it, and we would be far better served by teaching people to protect themselves against criminals like that.

By making this "teach men not to rape" argument, I see two goals that the feminists have:

-They wish to define rapists not as a violent, deviant, subset of men, but as any man. They want to say any man is a potential rapist.

-They wish to expand the definition of rape to things such as cases where a woman has drank before having sex, where a woman is repeatedly asked to have sex by her beta partner when she doesn't really want to, or where she puts up resistance at first but then later decides to have sex, and then has . That's why feminists focus talk about a clear, spoken, sober, enethusiastic sex- they want to vastly expand the amont of heterosexual sex that is considered rape.

The trouble is, it's not going to work. Most men and women have the common sense to know that it's not rape if a guy and girl get drunk together and then have sex. Someone who isn't a feminist isolated to her lesbian collective are going to know that most men, for whatever the flaws, are not secret rapists.

So all they succeed in doing is preventing the education of women as to how not be victims of the real criminals. If any of us had a daughter was about to go off to college, of course we want to teach her how to not be a target for the real predators. And by trying to expand the definition of rape, they take away from what a woman who was actually forced went through by comparing her experience to that of someone who got drunk, had sex, and regretted it the next morning.

Post: #13

(12-08-2013 05:53 PM)MattW Wrote:  

(12-08-2013 05:02 PM)kbell Wrote:  This is the same dude, Thunderfoot, who tore apart that feminist gaming critic awhile ago.

Yeah, thunderfoot is almost a manosphere member at this point. In the last year he's done more anti-feminism videos than anti-religion videos. He started with "Why feminism is poisoning atheism" and most recently it was "Why feminism poisons EVERYTHING".

My kind of guy.

The why feminism poisons everything video is very good. I recommend it.