Post: #1

Modern sound engineers are fucking up music. By maxing out the sound of reissues and modern music everything sounds a mush. Without quiet you can't have loud.

This is the most important issue facing music today. And is a good reason to avoid any modern reissues for old albums that you love.

Youtube has many videos on this subject. I also read a good book on it. But - if you want a quick one minute example of what I am talking about. Check this out:

Post: #2

There was an old article about 10-20 years ago about the overmastering and overcompression of pop songs, but the hell if I can find it.

Here are something related (pdf warning):

"there is no evidence of any significant correlation between loudness (& implied compression) and commercial success"

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84417...tation.pdf

"Dynamic Range Compression: Are The Loudness Wars Over?"

http://thequietus.com/articles/13821-lou...s-bob-katz

Post: #3

This is exactly why I listen to (original analogue release) vinyl records. I find extreme compression exhausting to listen to and it makes the music uninvolving. Digital sound fatigues the ear in a way analogue doesn't.

Post: #4

(12-06-2013 07:11 PM)Sombro Wrote:  There was an old article about 10-20 years ago about the overmastering and overcompression of pop songs, but the hell if I can find it.

Here are something related (pdf warning):

"there is no evidence of any significant correlation between loudness (& implied compression) and commercial success"

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84417...tation.pdf

"Dynamic Range Compression: Are The Loudness Wars Over?"

http://thequietus.com/articles/13821-lou...s-bob-katz

You're probably referring to Joe Gross' article on this subject from 2006 which ran in the now-defunct Arthur magazine (link here). I think this was the first article that really defined the problem and looked into what was happening in sound.

Since then, record companies have sought to improve the sound on reissues of older music. I do a lot of sound editing and notice the wave files no longer look like one big block, but now have good old-fashioned ups and downs.

But there are other problems, like altered EQ settings that remove bass and treble and pile on the midrange. Or simply lack presence. I have some of my own vinyl rips of albums on YouTube and I know they sound better than the tweezy reissued. Whatever the case, when you do a side-by-side most reissues don't capture what the vinyl originally sounded like.

PS: Anyone who has only heard The Beatles on those '09 CD or vinyl remasters is missing so much treble that some songs don't even sound like the same mixes ("She Said She Said," "Because"). I'm tempted to do rips and put them against each other on YouTube. When they remastered, they tried so hard to avoid top-end hiss that they lopped off the higher EQ info.

Post: #5

I am interested because I have had a loud-ass sound system in my car for my entire life.

Bought it about 11 years ago, but it hits like it always did. I think my ears are a bit used a louder system.

I don't know. It might be the flu that has kept me in.

Post: #6

I always read amazon reviews before getting a reissue. Audio freaks really compare the different versions. I match up the "good" year from reviews with the torrent version. Some albums get remastered over and over.

Post: #7

I know Nirvanas Nevermind got re issued a few times and the latest one sounded like shit. A lot of old punk cds have been remastered. I cant imagine the originals sounding better than these.

Post: #8

Cardguy do you think you should ALWAYS get the originals?

Post: #9

Really depends on whoever mastered the song.

There's no way a producer like Vig would make it sound worse today or yesterday.

Post: #10

Found this
http://www.izotope.com/artists/adam_ayan_part_2.asp

Post: #11

IAASE (I am a sound engineer.. or at least was. Here's my opinion):

I don't care for vinyl distortion. Why? Because that's what I grew up with. I don't care for the way vinyl sounds. Warmth isn't the word I'd use to describe vinyl distortion, just fuzzy in an old school kind of nostalgic way.

Regardless, a CD has the ability to be even more precise sounding than a record ever can. Producers need to let it go and relax music a bit. I imagine the sound engineers doing cocaine and then mastering the album. Wouldn't be surprised.

Post: #12

(12-07-2013 05:55 AM)houston Wrote:  Cardguy do you think you should ALWAYS get the originals?

I am no expert. But this has become a big issue from about the mid nineties onwards.

So - if you have an album that came out before that - I would stick with that instead of getting a later reissue.

The history of recorded sound (and the records vs CDs debates and so on) is a really complex one. But also very interesting. This is a great book which goes over the history of all the major issues (including the problem of modern re-issues):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Perfecting-Sound...ding+sound

Personally - I must be weird. I actually think cassette tapes sound better than CDs, MP3s and records. I feel the sound is warmer but also more vivid at the same time. And I like the way the subtle warping of the tape changes the sound over time.

I dunno' if this is a good example. Here are a couple of my favourite songs that I listen to alot on YouTube. And they are both taken from cassettes. It is amazing how good they sound - and to me they sound better than any other format.









I have listened to these songs on CDs and MP3s and they don't sound as good as this. I have a bunch of other cassette tapes where the songs sound better in that format than they do on CD or record as well.

But it all depends. One of my favourite albums is 'Astral Weeks' by Van Morrison - and that sounds much better on record. Particularly on large speakers which allow the sound to move through the room. It is a complex album - and you hear different instruments/melodies everytime you listen to it.

But the debate is alargely academic. Since the sound engineers who mix he album have a much bigger impact than the choice of format you ultimately decide to use to listen to the music on.

Post: #13

Post: #14

(12-07-2013 08:38 AM)frenchie Wrote:  I don't care for vinyl distortion. Why? Because that's what I grew up with. I don't care for the way vinyl sounds. Warmth isn't the word I'd use to describe vinyl distortion, just fuzzy in an old school kind of nostalgic way.

From my experience, analogue favours low end instruments like bass guitar, cello and electric piano more, and gives more air and richness to strings, and better vocal presence and separation for voices.

Digital distortion introduces a layer of random harmonics which mightn't seem detectable to the ear, are overlaying the song with *constant* unchanging high frequency tones. Our ears are excited by dynamic shifts and bored by unchanging waveforms - it's a genetic survival mechanism. A hot mastered track is going to be actively boring the listener at some level . Spread that across an entire album, and you'll see why album sales have dropped enough that people are considering the album format dead.

I've got a vinyl record coming out later next year. My producer and I have worked *very* hard to take advantage of the format to make it sound great. It'll be interesting to see how my observations pan out in terms of engaging the listener.