Post: #76

But just to be clear, I'll reiterate this: "if alcohol causes problems in your life, or you lack discipline and think quitting for an entire year will help you develop discipline, I got no beef with you."

All who sign on to go along with Lizard of Oz's challenge here, I say, more power to you. Good luck, I hope you achieve what you set out to achieve.

I just think BB makes a great point. Is the problems you have because of alcohol the demon sauce...or is the problem YOU and how you view it's use or abuse?

I'll wholeheartedly agree with the following:

Quote:First, it is good to accept a challenge like this and to show yourself you can do it, no excuses, no bullshit, no exceptions. It's good for a man to stake his pride on something and then get it done.

Second, there are very good physiological reasons for this. People who have been hard drinkers are sensitized to alcohol and any taste of the drug triggers certain cascades in your brain. While this doesn't mean that any taste compels you to go on a binge, it is important to go for a long period without those cascades ever occurring to really reset some of the pathways and change your relation to it.

To those that accept the challenge, good luck, I wish you success.

As for me, I'm gonna go have a brew.

Post: #77

K Galt, like I said earlier in the thread:

Quote:The challenge is aimed at guys who feel their lives have been made worse by alcohol. True moderate drinkers are rare -- most guys here who like to drink -- love to drink. This is for them.

A true drinker -- someone who drinks because he loves to be drunk -- will not naturally or willingly become a moderate one. And the wagon, the complete removal of the drug, confers great benefits on the true drinker that cannot be realized in any other way.

It is sometimes possible for a true drinker to go back to being a moderate drinker after a long wagon -- but that's a different story...

Again, I don't think that there is anything wrong in principle with truly moderate drinking, or that every guy needs to be a teetotaler. But for those guys who have drunk hard enough for long enough for it to start telling -- in both obvious and subtle ways -- there is great value in taking a complete and rigorous break for an extended period of time.

Post: #78

It's time for a change.

I've already got some good stuff. Writing it now for THC to edit and post. I've been working in a strip club in an utter shit hole for the past month.

I've got to make some money and I'm going to use this time to improve myself.

Post: #79

I've been taking extended breaks (up to 6 months) regularly for the last decade. Never got the DT's or really missed it. It does feel good to lay off and my body appreciates it. I've seen a few dudes look rough for the first few days, or cats literally making their way to the first bar when coming offshore and stay there for 30 days.

For me, the key is after a hard bender night, stop for a couple days and let the body and mind catch rest. Going real hard night after night puts you into an alternate universe, and you'll be hammered and don't know it. Scary shit.

Post: #80

El Chinito, just wanted to say welcome aboard. And I did see your thread earlier. Look forward to more updates from you as time goes on.

(12-04-2013 03:37 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  I made a similar thread asking members on here how to do the scene without alcohol. I'm glad someone actually put together a productive challenge. I am definitely in.

Post: #81

I'm buzzed. Sitting in Chilis to go area waiting for them to bring me a compromised paleo dinner to my car.. But.. I'm done drinking an hour ago from work. It was three double shot vodka and red bull total zeros and out.

Vodka is the crack of booze. It's fast as fuck and leaves pretty fast. In and out and done for another night.

Post: #82

LOL Mech I know you're secretly fantasizing about a 1 year wagon as you wait for that compromised paleo dinner.

I like how you always count your drinks in units of 2. A mark of quality...

Post: #83

(12-04-2013 10:03 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  I like how you always count your drinks in units of 2. A mark of quality...

That's cause he's always seeing double.

Post: #84

"Sitting in Chilis..."

^El Mech break down a Chili's Data Sheet.

I've heard they're stocked full of 9's.

Post: #85

(12-04-2013 10:14 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  "Sitting in Chilis..."

^El Mech break down a Chili's Data Sheet.

I've heard they're stocked full of 9's.

Post: #86

(12-01-2013 11:58 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  Damn. I really do want to try this I want to try this lizard. What are some of the pros you have noticed since being alcholol free? Maybe I will do the whole month of December to start.

Midnite, I can feel you've been thinking hard about this. All I want to say is you can definitely do it if you decide to. You'll thank yourself later.

Post: #87

@Enigma: lmao.

El Mech has become an expert at ignoring the bait I throw out.

Post: #88

No really. I ate and I'm sober again drinking lemon waters. Drunk and done, back to the grind in the am.

Vodka IS the crack of booze. Handle it or the grave.

Post: #89

I think McQueen is still upset with mech for giving him shit when he first joined for being hung up on some girl.

Post: #90

Haven't drank since I was 18. Don't plan on doing it for my 21st either.

The date thing is actually really easy. Just come up with a witty line about why you don't drink. Surprisingly, a lot of girls are really cool with it.

Also some, not all but quite a few, girls will actually be impressed if you talk to them sober.

I remember talking to two random girls and saying some whack nonsense. They knew I wasn't drinking and ended up letting it slide because they were simply impressed that I could walk up to them and start a conversation while sober.

Post: #91

@Fisto:

Ah the infamous Letter to A Cunt thread. Nah, I deserved it in that situation.

Post: #92

(12-04-2013 02:20 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  That said. In my book, a wagon means no drinks of any kind for any reason for the specified period of time. No exceptions. This is the way that I would like this "1 year challenge" to be taken. Not one drink from the starting date, whatever it is, to the same date one full year later.

If you had "about three drinks since you quit drinking" then to me that's not the same as being on the wagon for that entire period. That's not a moral judgment, just a matter of what the word means.

Of course, I agree with you that there is no need for the AA drama where "falling off the wagon" necessarily entails some sort of nearly life-ending binge. However. If someone has a drink for any reason, their wagon is over. They then can, and indeed should, re-start their wagon immediately. But it's a new wagon, and the count starts again from that date.

I expected someone to say that and I understand your perspective.

There's a big difference though. I'm not taking a challenge nor am I "on a wagon" for a year. I just don't drink anymore - I'm all in. Just ended up in this thread because it sprouted out of the other non-drinking thread I was already posting in.

And given that I just don't drink, taking one sip to appease an old Korean guy's sense of hospitality, as in my case, isn't akin to a failure. Maybe if I had a drink or two I could see your point but not a courtesy sip. By my "rules," that's like saying the grandma who takes a ritual sip at Thanksgiving every year is a drinker. It's not like I sat there in a battle of wits with myself and lost. In my case there is no battle of wits.

But just to be clear, I didn't bring that up to convince readers here they should drink sometimes when someone offers it just to be polite. My real point was that if you walk away from drinking tomorrow, there's no reason to think you'll struggle against some insane urge for years on end.

That's all mental and you can change your mind about it if you want.

Quote:First, it is good to accept a challenge like this and to show yourself you can do it, no excuses, no bullshit, no exceptions. It's good for a man to stake his pride on something and then get it done.

I agree. I did it on a regular basis when I used to drink. Sometimes up to 4 months (never took the year challenge but considered it). In the end, after I renewed the habit, I always eventually ended up right back where I started.

Again, though, we're talking about two different things here. While I'm a big advocate of subjecting yourself to periods of strict self-discipline, in this case I'm not doing this to prove anything to myself or anyone else. Therefore, someone telling me I'm not on some nonexistent wagon just because I took a taste of some wine to be polite doesn't hold any meaning to me (with all due respect).

I get it, though, I really do. And I encourage it too.

Quote:Second, there are very good physiological reasons for this. People who have been hard drinkers are sensitized to alcohol and any taste of the drug triggers certain cascades in your brain. While this doesn't mean that any taste compels you to go on a binge, it is important to go for a long period without those cascades ever occurring to really reset some of the pathways and change your relation to it.

Finally, there is no need to either understate or overstate the difficulty of doing this. For people who have been hard drinkers giving it up is not easy. There is a whole structure of habits that has to be abandoned -- not just the drug but all the social and solitary rituals that go with it, and all the ways in which these rituals seem to beguile certain periods of one's days and nights and seasons. There are other and better structures that replace them over time, but this doesn't happen immediately. It takes months or more. And in the interim there can be a good deal of emptiness and boredom that bring the temptation to return to the seemingly tried and true ways of drinking.

It is also true that this is absolutely doable and is entirely within any man's power. But it does take some commitment and some backbone. In short, it's neither easy nor impossible, rather, it's a challenge but one that can be met and that brings great rewards to those that stick with it.

We'll have to agree to disagree with all of the above.

I know these are common ideas about alcoholism, but simply put...if I read that busting the paradigm makes it easy...I follow the directions and it is suddenly very easy...friends I know who have been miserable alcoholics for decades do the same and find it easy...and thousands of others report the same...well, then I must say that brings me to a point where I'm wholly convinced a lot of these things you mention are just a product of the beliefs we attach to alcohol.

Society has a long reputation of convincing themselves of things that aren't exactly true. I'm of the opinion that's the case with "addiction."

I know addiction well so these aren't light issues to me. My father and my uncle both od'ed on heroin and most everyone in my family is a raging alcohol or ex-druggie. But I've also seen that people do it to themselves because they go back and forth without making a real decision. Or have built a lifelong habit of quitting every good thing they start. Or convince themselves they are addicts rather than someone choosing to take an addicting drug.

In every case where I could see someone actually meant they were done with a substance, they never went back.

That said, I don't want to get into a debate about what works and what doesn't. Or discourage them! Anyone making an honest effort to stop or abstain for a while gets a solid in my book, and I wish them luck.

If the approach they take doesn't work for them, well, then they know and can try something else next time.

Every step forward is a step in the right direction.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #93

One year of not drinking:

http://dangerandplay.com/2013/11/21/one-year-sobriety/

Post: #94

BB:

I think one good reason for total abstinence if you are an alcoholic is that alcohol consumption can lead to death in many cases for the hard core drinker.

risks are higher of having a second, third, fourth drink after having the first. thus the worst possible outcome is a great probability after having the first.

so the decision is -

value of having one drink vs. increasing the odds of the worst possible outcome, even if slightly

and to me, its just not worth it

Post: #95

(12-05-2013 09:23 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  BB:

I think one good reason for total abstinence if you are an alcoholic is that alcohol consumption can lead to death in many cases for the hard core drinker.

risks are higher of having a second, third, fourth drink after having the first. thus the worst possible outcome is a great probability after having the first.

so the decision is -

value of having one drink vs. increasing the odds of the worst possible outcome, even if slightly

and to me, its just not worth it

I will say again that you guys are DEFINITELY misreading me if you think I'm arguing against total abstinence.

Even if that's how I felt, I'd hardly come in here trying to talk alcoholics into drinking. lol

Perhaps my example was inappropriate for the conversation at hand (though I still stand by it). All I was trying to say was people have the option of making it MUCH easier on themselves if they target their beliefs instead of only their behaviors. Think NLP.

And changing your beliefs often starts by changing the language you use - something most people who quit drinking fail to do. Hence my caution to people talking about not drinking as being hard. That sets up for an out where you can crawl back to your friends and joke about failing (I fell off the wagon har har har).

And don't know about you, but I'll take easy over hard any day of the week when it comes to lifestyle changes.

Anyhow, I'm sure those ready for that message have gotten it so I don't see any reason to beat the issue into the ground and completely derail the thread with it. Even if we were talking about the same thing, which we're clearly not, this conversation isn't going to go anywhere. Trying to change someone's mind about the nature of alcoholism is about as productive as talking them into your religion or political beliefs.

We all have the same interests in mind, so let's get back to that. And more talk of gaming sober would be interesting. As would living destinations particularly conducive to teetotalers.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #96

Dang. You guys are making me reconsider. I have a few major partying trips and now I'm adding a 90 day challenge to the list. I know I'm not going to be able to go with zero alcohol, too many damn meetings where it's going to be rude not to drink so thanks to this thread I'll go ahead and add not drinking for at least 3 months on the 2014 goal list.

Fuck this place, trying to make me improve my life. Ha!

Post: #97

I'm in for this as well.

Will set the date on or around the 1st of the year.

Post: #98

(12-05-2013 09:42 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  too many damn meetings where it's going to be rude not to drink

honestly, no one will care.

this goes back to game 101. we over inflate what other people think of us or their concern for who we are or what we are doing. worrying about a girl rejecting us and this preventing us from approaching is silly. people are wrapped up in their own shit.

i've been in every situation imaginable with alcohol and haven't drank, including high level client/vendor meetings, intimate toasts, dates, parties, clubs, even wine tastings! - and no one cares

Post: #99

(12-05-2013 11:10 AM)Biz Wrote:  I'm in for this as well.

Will set the date on or around the 1st of the year.

Biz, glad to hear you're in and look forward to your starting date and updates.

Post: #100

Who's going to meltdown on the forum first and get banned? A year? No way 10 days.