Post: #1

Some months ago I posted a thread about Eike Batista a Brazilian entrepreneur, who was the 7th richest man in the world in 2011, but whose fortune got spinned in a free fall (losing an incredible $2mm per hour) making him ending 2012 in 100th place. However, in those days he still had his own yacht, his own jet and the loyalty of her stunning girlfriend.
The fall continued, and yesterday the man filed bankrupcy and now he's worth -$746.5 million (yes, it's a negative sign on the left). Long ago are the days when he was worth 30 billion dollars. This tragedy also brings a lot of questions about the leverage of Brazilian economy which is also showing many weakness signs.
The man has also lost his yacht, his cars, his corporate offices, and even his once loyal stunning girlfriend Flávia Sampaio dumped him. Bitch!

Post: #2

(11-01-2013 04:43 PM)Luvianka Wrote:  The fall continued, and yesterday the man filed bankrupcy and now he's worth -$746.5 million (yes, it's a negative sign on the left). Long ago are the days when he was worth $30 billion.

Meh, I'm not too sympathetic given what I've read about the guy over the past couple of years. He strikes me as a spoiled kid born on third base who mistook that base for the dugout and talked accordingly. He couldn't see his own privilege and that bred overconfidence-everything came to him easily, so he just assumed it'd keep coming and treated risk like it didn't exist. He built an empire upon a foundation of brash, irrational overconfidence and outright dishonesty. His fall is well deserved. The only unfortunate bit is that he's taking a lot of other folks down with him.

Quote:Batista grew up the son of Brazil's wealthy former minister of mines and energy. In a country famous for corruption and nepotism, it seemed a bit more than coincidental when the younger Batista literally struck gold in the mining industry in the 1980s, despite the assertion in his autobiography, characteristically titled "The X Factor: The Path of Brazil's Greatest Entrepreneur," that his fortune was the result of hard work and ingenuity.

This is what I'm talking about. Born on third base, but thinks he started from the bottom.

Quote:Things began to fall apart last year in dramatic fashion. His bodybuilder son, Thor, struck and killed a cyclist while speeding in a million-dollar Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren that the Batistas had been in the habit of keeping on display in their living room. The public was shocked by Eike Batista's response, as he took to Twitter to blame the "carelessness" of the cyclist, an impoverished cargo worker who had to commute by bike on a dangerous highway.

The guy gives a 20 year old kid a McLaren SLR. The kid (like father, like son), speeds in the thing because rules don't apply to him and actually kills a man who wasn't born on third base. Instead of holding his son responsible as he should, he proceeds to blame the victim while his son gets off with community service after killing a man.

Quote: Cléber Carvalho Rumbelsperger, the lawyer for the victim’s family in this case, said in the days after the crash that witnesses contended that Mr. Pereira dos Santos was hit on the shoulder of the highway when Mr. Batista was trying to pass a bus. But Mr. Batista and his father each presented a starkly different version of what happened.

“The cyclist’s carelessness could have caused three deaths,” said the elder Mr. Batista, 55, in a Twitter message a day after Mr. Pereira dos Santos was buried. He said that both his son and a friend riding in the two-seat McLaren could have been killed.

Thor also said he had never been in a car accident. But the newspaper O Globo reported that he had actually collided with a cyclist in Rio last year while driving an Audi, fracturing the pelvis of an octogenarian.

But some Brazilians wonder why Mr. Batista had been allowed to drive that day in March in the first place. The television network Globo reported that over 18 months he had received various fines associated with his driver’s license, including numerous penalties for speeding violations, a total that would normally result in a suspended license.

No humility. No empathy. No common decency. Just rabid overconfidence.

Quote:Amid assurances of big gains — each of his companies had the letter X in its title, signifying multiple returns — his personal fortune soared, even as the companies brought in little revenue. After he tapped equities markets for all they were worth, he turned to debt markets, borrowing even more to pump up his companies.

"He built his empire based on what have now been proven to be very unrealistic expectations," said Tony Volpon, a New York-based economist for international bank Nomura Securities. "He made the cardinal sin of using debt to finance what were very risky exploratory activities in oil, and no one does that."

"He didn't understand that oil and gas projects are high-risk ventures," said Pires, of the energy consulting firm. "In this business there is no certainty, just probability. He went around preaching and promising."

In Brazil's new, more austere and more politically conscious moment, Eike Batista has had little to say. His once-active Twitter account has been dormant for 126 days.

Post: #3

My takeaway from this is just how crazy fortunes are made and lost today.

You have 20 year old self made billionaires.

You have guys like this one going from Billionaire to bankrupt in no time at all.

Post: #4

Well said Athlone. Great post.

Karma is a bitch

Post: #5

Okay - anyone clue me in on this? The guy was worth 30 billion dollars - and now is worth minus 700 million dollars.

How does that work? Does that mean he will go live on the street? Or does the debt get wiped out? And if so - will he have the experience, knowledge and contacts to just walk into a cushy multi-million dollar consultancy type job if he wants it?

I just wonder how it works? Does if he have to repay all that cash? And would he now by searching his local papers (like the rest of us) for a job to pay his bills? Do you become a regular schlub when this happens? Or are you still part of the elite?

Post: #6

To add the above - here is a nice anecdote from Donald Trump (although I am never entirely convinced of his success - since there seems to be alot of smoke and mirrors about his businesses and net worth).

Quote:Donald Trump's comeback is one of the most dramatic of all time—as well as one of the most visible. According to a well-known anecdote, one day when he was $1 billion in debt, Trump pointed out a homeless man to his daughter and said, "See that bum? He has a billion dollars more than me." The Guinness Book of Records lists him as having the biggest financial turnaround in history. "In the early 1990s, I owed billions of dollars and many people thought I was finished," says Trump. "I refused to give in to the negative circumstances and I never lost faith in myself. I didn't believe I was finished even when the newspapers were saying so. I refused to give up. Defeat is not in my vocabulary."

Post: #7

Me too, Athlone. His fortune was pretty much based on corruption. The chick was smoking hot, though.

Post: #8

The chick is incredible. She has something unique about her. 11/10.

Post: #9

(11-01-2013 06:53 PM)cardguy Wrote:  The chick is incredible. She has something unique about her. 11/10.

Brazilian upper class chick with some mulattoe blood. Only when you are in Brazil you can appreciate that kind of beauty.

Post: #10

I have never seen skin like that. Amazing.

Post: #11

(11-01-2013 06:49 PM)cardguy Wrote:  To add the above - here is a nice anecdote from Donald Trump (although I am never entirely convinced of his success - since there seems to be alot of smoke and mirrors about his businesses and net worth).

Quote:Donald Trump's comeback is one of the most dramatic of all time—as well as one of the most visible. According to a well-known anecdote, one day when he was $1 billion in debt, Trump pointed out a homeless man to his daughter and said, "See that bum? He has a billion dollars more than me." The Guinness Book of Records lists him as having the biggest financial turnaround in history. "In the early 1990s, I owed billions of dollars and many people thought I was finished," says Trump. "I refused to give in to the negative circumstances and I never lost faith in myself. I didn't believe I was finished even when the newspapers were saying so. I refused to give up. Defeat is not in my vocabulary."

If you can convince people you can make them money they will give you money, or you can convince people whom you owe money to not let you loose more money if they give you the ability to make more money by easing the debt load. Trump was able to convince people to give him credit to roll his losses and he was able to get the ball rolling on projects that got him rich again. When you made your riches cheating people they will wish you burn in hell and won't give you a dime. Trump from my understanding had good relationships with his industry and only hustled outsiders like the City of New York and non industry creditors.

I've been told that wealthy dudes never really go "broke" just like somebody living of a credit card, and you assume he may still have some rich friends....

"Yea you can stay at my 3rd home in Panama while you sort things out"

Or people will offer him shit for a opportunity to fleece him later on.

"Yeah well offer you $300 Million now but we want 80% of the cut when this shit starts growing"

"Yeah will ease your debt but we want you to step of your stake when your making money again.

This Brazilian guy has no track record of making money though. He simply hustled his fortunes so creditors will leech him dry until he dies. If he has good friends he will still live good and better then 99% of us do.

(11-01-2013 07:02 PM)cardguy Wrote:  I have never seen skin like that. Amazing.

Rich people sit in different sun then us regular folk. I never saw this until the first time I was in NYC and I seen Rich a$$$$ people on the streets walking around. Their skin had a different tan, tone, and their hair shined a different way, the girls especially. It was like on some next level stuff I had never seen before.

Post: #12

As for "what will happen to him now?" I don't know much about brazil, but since it is south america, won't one of the other people whose fortune he just destroyed have him killed now?

I doubt he has any money left to hire bodyguards.

Post: #13

@kosko - great response!

And yeah - I have noticed that rich girls look much better than ordinary girls. Indeed - some high class girls are too high class to slum around with modelling and media careers. So - often you will see wealthy girls who look totally different to the kind of hot girls you are used to seeing in magazines.

It is an interesting subject. But generally - there is nothing better than a hot girl who is rich. It enables them to get their looks up to the next level.

Post: #14

(11-01-2013 04:43 PM)Luvianka Wrote:  

Oh, I'm sure she didn't break up with him on account of his lost fortune. It's probably simply that she needed to get away from the stress of the situation. But nothing to do with the money. I mean, it's not like the sort of quality women that a billionaire would date are just gold digging.

I'm sure that she just liked him for who he was, but losing all that money chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaangggggggggged him.

Post: #15

(11-01-2013 07:17 PM)kosko Wrote:  Rich people sit in different sun then us regular folk. I never saw this until the first time I was in NYC and I seen Rich a$$$$ people on the streets walking around. Their skin had a different tan, tone, and their hair shined a different way, the girls especially. It was like on some next level stuff I had never seen before.

What's behind that? Better skincare or a better diet?

I want that next level skin.

Post: #16

A natural tropical tan is always best.

Post: #17

i want skin that is from the next level universe.

wait,

is that beta?

Post: #18

Ofcourse your skin is going to contrast with the proles when seasons are used as verbs. For example. grandmother summers in Bar Harbor.

Post: #19

(11-01-2013 07:50 PM)torontokid Wrote:  

(11-01-2013 07:17 PM)kosko Wrote:  Rich people sit in different sun then us regular folk. I never saw this until the first time I was in NYC and I seen Rich a$$$$ people on the streets walking around. Their skin had a different tan, tone, and their hair shined a different way, the girls especially. It was like on some next level stuff I had never seen before.

What's behind that? Better skincare or a better diet?

I want that next level skin.

Skincare, mostly. You could have a dermatologist living in your closet if you wanted. Shit, install a bunk bed and you can keep a stylist in there to pick out your clothes, too.

Regular people might buy a bottle of moisturizer for $5-10 bucks. Rich people use moisturizer infused with platinum (yes, the metal) that costs thousands (yes, this actually exists).

Post: #20

(11-01-2013 09:57 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  Ofcourse your skin is going to contrast with the proles when seasons are used as verbs. For example. grandmother summers in Bar Harbor.

Great line.

Post: #21

It's a sobering story and highlights once again something I've said and believed for a long time. If you haven't built a life based on your body and your mind, you will have nothing to sustain you when all your possessions are taken away. Which can happen. Financial disaster, war refugees, natural disasters, etc., happen more frequently than people think.
You only really own what is inside your head, and what you can carry on your back. I know it sounds like a tiresome platitude, but it is true.

Which is why some guys like him will commit suicide when they are financially ruined. Their whole identity is based on their "wealth." I'm not saying money is not important, because it is. But when your whole identity is built around it, you sew the seeds of your own downfall. And when the money goes, so go all your fake "friends."

This is also why it's important to embrace humility, charity, and at least some of the virtues of modesty. You're up one day, and down the next. Don't ever think you can't be taught a lesson in humility. Never lord it over other people when you are on top. Because someday you could be the guy on the bottom.

His real test as a man begins now. Will he curl into the fetal position and die? Or will he remake himself in a newer, better way? Time will tell.

Post: #22

"When you don't got much cash...you gotta be able to sincerely mack".

- The Former West Chicago Pimp

Post: #23

(11-01-2013 06:46 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Okay - anyone clue me in on this? The guy was worth 30 billion dollars - and now is worth minus 700 million dollars.

How does that work? Does that mean he will go live on the street? Or does the debt get wiped out? And if so - will he have the experience, knowledge and contacts to just walk into a cushy multi-million dollar consultancy type job if he wants it?

I just wonder how it works? Does if he have to repay all that cash? And would he now by searching his local papers (like the rest of us) for a job to pay his bills? Do you become a regular schlub when this happens? Or are you still part of the elite?

He will take a large hit, but still end up rich by normal standards.

Let's say he ends up down to his last 100 million. That's a problem I wouldn't mind having.

His main company has filed for bankruptcy. It looks like he will have to file for personal bankruptcy in the future.

The thing is, he can discreetly strip assets from his company vehicles and personal holdings and put them in other peoples' names. If he saw the writing on the wall, there was already time for this to happen.

Until his bankruptcy is resolved, he will have to live off spending by family and associates.

He has a huge network of contacts and surely has a large bank of favors that can be called in. Bankruptcy can't strip him of that.

I don't expect he would have a regular job. He would broker deals for commission and fees.

The headline numbers don't always give the full picture. In business in Latin America there are often hidden activities. Kickbacks, bribes, caixa dois, so para ingles ver etc.

Post: #24

Who holds the record for most bankrupt individual in history? Bernie madoff was owing $5bn to investors when he went down. That's quite some liabilities.

Post: #25

(11-01-2013 06:45 PM)Agent 47 Wrote:  Karma is a bitch

"Karma has an evil twin sister named Payback... and Payback is a bitch"