Post: #1

Guys,

I know many of you are single dudes living the dream. Do most of you guys feel free? I mean philosophically, have you "checked out" as much as possible? Maybe not live in the woods type of checking out (although thats cool) but just in general?

I'm asking because the older I get (almost 38) the more I just want to give up and check out. I have a good job in IT, decent hours, but I am tired of the huge tax penalties for being single, the constant office bullshit, and honestly, the authority they have over me.

How did you guys transition (if applicable) to the lifestyle change?

EDIT: Changed my title for clarity.

Post: #2

This isn't a MGTOW forum. I dont even really know what they are, but I don't think most of us are MGTOW. Don't they not fuck women?

Post: #3

This again.

Post: #4

(10-24-2013 11:03 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  This isn't a MGTOW forum. I dont even really know what they are, but I don't think most of us are MGTOW. Don't they not fuck women?

Hrmm, maybe I need to redefine my headline, I wasn't really clear.

Post: #5

There's a difference between freedom and leadership. Guys seeking freedom often do so by cutting themselves off from relationships. A more positive vision of freedom is enabled by leadership where you create a life on your own terms, while still maintaining strong and interdependent relationships with the people in your life.

Post: #6

Come on now.

Any cursory glance at an mgtow forum and its apparent rvf is night and day in its differences.

I probably fit some of the mgtow ideals in that I dont want kids or marriage but thats where it ends.

I come to this forum because it helps me in my path of self improvement, learning the ins and outs of traveling/living in other countries and I want to understand as much as possible about game, gender psychological dynamics and ultimately becoming the best version of myself.

Good luck finding any of that on a mgtow forum. The general premise from those forums is a basic giving up on self improvement or avoiding societal demands because it doesnt benefit you. Meanwhile here we try to take advantage of society/women and get the most we can from it.

Post: #7

I think Kaii's using the word to mean just plugging out of society's expectations by quitting his job, possibly starting his own business, maybe dialing back on the middle class lifestyle, traveling, and doing whatever makes him happy. Not trying to be whatever his parents, family, and friends expect of him.

As long as he does all that and still pulls girls and works on his game, I don't think he's really MGTOW.

Post: #8

(10-24-2013 11:19 AM)bacon Wrote:  Come on now.

Any cursory glance at an mgtow forum and its apparent rvf is night and day in its differences.

I probably fit some of the mgtow ideals in that I dont want kids or marriage but thats where it ends.

I come to this forum because it helps me in my path of self improvement, learning the ins and outs of traveling/living in other countries and I want to understand as much as possible about game, gender psychological dynamics and ultimately becoming the best version of myself.

Good luck finding any of that on a mgtow forum.

Yeah man, I get it I wasn't trying to compare forums, I just formulated my question wrong.

Post: #9

(10-24-2013 11:27 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  I think Kaii's using the word to mean just plugging out of society's expectations by quitting his job, possibly starting his own business, maybe dialing back on the middle class lifestyle, traveling, and doing whatever makes him happy. Not trying to be whatever his parents, family, and friends expect of him.

As long as he does all that and still pulls girls and works on his game, I don't think he's really MGTOW.

Yes!! You said exactly what I was trying to say, thanks!

Post: #10

(10-24-2013 11:28 AM)Kaii Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 11:27 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  I think Kaii's using the word to mean just plugging out of society's expectations by quitting his job, possibly starting his own business, maybe dialing back on the middle class lifestyle, traveling, and doing whatever makes him happy. Not trying to be whatever his parents, family, and friends expect of him.

As long as he does all that and still pulls girls and works on his game, I don't think he's really MGTOW.

Yes!! You said exactly what I was trying to say, thanks!

Ok in light of rephrasing of the question you will find much of that here. Many people on this forum are living in exotic locations/ doing interesting self employed work and can help get you started on living the lifestyle you dream about as opposed to one society/family/friends would like you to live.

I think one of the unspoken ethoses of this forum is to go out and get what you want and to be willing to make the necessary changes to ones lifestyle to make that happen.

Post: #11

(10-24-2013 11:40 AM)bacon Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 11:28 AM)Kaii Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 11:27 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  I think Kaii's using the word to mean just plugging out of society's expectations by quitting his job, possibly starting his own business, maybe dialing back on the middle class lifestyle, traveling, and doing whatever makes him happy. Not trying to be whatever his parents, family, and friends expect of him.

As long as he does all that and still pulls girls and works on his game, I don't think he's really MGTOW.

Yes!! You said exactly what I was trying to say, thanks!

Ok in light of rephrasing of the question you will find much of that here. Many people on this forum are living in exotic locations/ doing interesting self employed work and can help get you started on living the lifestyle you dream about as opposed to one society/family/friends would like you to live.

I think one of the unspoken ethoses of this forum is to go out and get what you want and to be willing to make the necessary changes to ones lifestyle to make that happen.

Thanks man. I have read/studied/thought about how I want my life to be, but haven't acted yet out of fear (I am man enough to admit that). Now is the time to act, I just need to take the leap!

Reading this forum sure helps to push you to better improve yourself, it's awesome!

Post: #12

So Kaii, what are your next steps?
What are your biggest fears and limiting beliefs in taking action?

Post: #13

(10-24-2013 12:20 PM)psyrus Wrote:  So Kaii, what are your next steps?
What are your biggest fears and limiting beliefs in taking action?

Fear of losing finacial security, I got's bills to pay. That is probably the biggest one. The other would be fear of failing, and being back where I started like 15 years ago (broke and lame).

Post: #14

(10-24-2013 12:40 PM)Kaii Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 12:20 PM)psyrus Wrote:  So Kaii, what are your next steps?
What are your biggest fears and limiting beliefs in taking action?

Fear of losing finacial security, I got's bills to pay. That is probably the biggest one. The other would be fear of failing, and being back where I started like 15 years ago (broke and lame).

There is always the risk of being broke again, you'll also be broke when you're dead.

My advice to soften the risk is to bank alot of cash before you make whatever leap you are planning. Also, don't make the leap by yourself, find a business partner who can talk you out of your risk aversion.

Also, downsize your bills to just shy of broke...ie. small apartment, shitty car to minimize your risk of crashing until you've rebuilt your life again. This also maximizes your cash saving ability pre-leap.

Oh and last, don't worry about being homeless. Once you get down to the poverty line in income you can get all sorts of things like section 42 housing and tax credits that keep you from becoming a crackhead in a cardboard box.

Post: #15

Yea man, bills to pay is always the hardest part of making the exit from the cushy cube lifestyle. I guess I was sort of lucky in that I gave up on my last corporate job and was eventually fired because the new manager didn't like me, so I was able to collect on unemployment and draw from my 401k to tide me over until I moved to the south from the northeast. That all went down about 18 months ago. I ended up freelancing for about 6 months before catching on with a company that lets me work remotely.

The first thing you want to do is make sure you have some ideas on what you want to do before you leave your day gig and get started on them, if possible. The second thing you want to do is either move some place where you can stretch out your funds, or if you're not interested in leaving your current city, downgrade your lifestyle until your expenses and income balance each other out. After you've taken on the entrepreneurial lifestyle/mindset, you'll begin to see opportunities everywhere. Your first venture or two may fail, but it sounds like you have a ton of experience to fall back on in a lucrative field if you have to go back to work for a while until you're ready to try it again.

Post: #16

(10-24-2013 12:57 PM)wiscanada Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 12:40 PM)Kaii Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 12:20 PM)psyrus Wrote:  So Kaii, what are your next steps?
What are your biggest fears and limiting beliefs in taking action?

Fear of losing finacial security, I got's bills to pay. That is probably the biggest one. The other would be fear of failing, and being back where I started like 15 years ago (broke and lame).

There is always the risk of being broke again, you'll also be broke when you're dead.

My advice to soften the risk is to bank alot of cash before you make whatever leap you are planning. Also, don't make the leap by yourself, find a business partner who can talk you out of your risk aversion.

Also, downsize your bills to just shy of broke...ie. small apartment, shitty car to minimize your risk of crashing until you've rebuilt your life again. This also maximizes your cash saving ability pre-leap.

Oh and last, don't worry about being homeless. Once you get down to the poverty line in income you can get all sorts of things like section 42 housing and tax credits that keep you from becoming a crackhead in a cardboard box.

Thanks for the tips man!

Post: #17

(10-24-2013 11:19 AM)bacon Wrote:  Come on now.

Any cursory glance at an mgtow forum and its apparent rvf is night and day in its differences.

I probably fit some of the mgtow ideals in that I dont want kids or marriage but thats where it ends.

I come to this forum because it helps me in my path of self improvement, learning the ins and outs of traveling/living in other countries and I want to understand as much as possible about game, gender psychological dynamics and ultimately becoming the best version of myself.

Good luck finding any of that on a mgtow forum. The general premise from those forums is a basic giving up on self improvement or avoiding societal demands because it doesnt benefit you. Meanwhile here we try to take advantage of society/women and get the most we can from it.

Very much true.

While I hate what the country is becoming, I am very much apart of the system. The alternative to not being in the system (checking out) really doesn't work for me. If I can get better at manipulating this screwed up world to my favor than more power to me.

I salute my MGTOW brothers, but they're in the same boat of the Japanese dudes who just check out and live in the basement playing video games all day. What fun is that?

Post: #18

Human beings are inherently social creatures. We gain status through our interactions with other people and status dictates the quality of life that we lead.

Some people are happy to live alone in a cabin and never bother interacting with other people. If you're one of those outliers, congrats. If you're not, then getting why you want is almost always going to be about how goodl you are at interacting with other people.

The road to success is self-improvement.

Post: #19

I'm pretty much MGTOW. Not that I want to be, but there just isn't much to choose from, the work and money is certainly not worth it to me, and getting older I have more important things on my mind.

But at the same time I am so supportive of the PUA/Game movement, because it is so beneficial to men is so many ways. Much more than just being able to get laid. I use a lot of the body language PUA stuff I learn here in day to day interactions.

Anyway, do I feel free from the system. I feel I am in between. Baring an economic collapse I could probably live the rest of my life on what I have saved and invested. But I would not lead the kind of life I want to live. So I keep working and saving all I can to get to that point. I figured if I can get up to a few million in net worth I can then truly be free from this system. Right now I feel like I am trying to escape it and something reaches up and pulls me back in.

Post: #20

I've got friends who don't punch a clock and pay their bills, but they're not free of responsibility.

But deciding what you want to do today is better than having someone else decide it.

Post: #21

You are never free of systems. You just go from one system to another. A better analogy is learning to surf the waves. I have been living outside the US for five years and don't plan on going back, especially after Obamacare and the increasing police state presence. Women are the least of my problems. But then there are other problems to solve. The Internet can also be an entrapping system.

Post: #22

(10-24-2013 10:44 AM)Kaii Wrote:  Guys,

I know many of you are single dudes living the dream. Do most of you guys feel free? I mean philosophically, have you "checked out" as much as possible? Maybe not live in the woods type of checking out (although thats cool) but just in general?

I'm asking because the older I get (almost 38) the more I just want to give up and check out. I have a good job in IT, decent hours, but I am tired of the huge tax penalties for being single, the constant office bullshit, and honestly, the authority they have over me.

How did you guys transition (if applicable) to the lifestyle change?

EDIT: Changed my title for clarity.

I'm more free than I've ever been but it's not ultimate freedom. I still have a job and have to show up a minimum amount of hours.

First and foremost, get rid of your T.V. Make a list of everything in your life that makes you complacent. This could be toys, devices, even people.

Next, trash them all. Cut them out, cold turkey. You're old enough to know that life is way too short for complacency.

I can relate in that my job pays well and as much as I hate having to work for someone else, I've managed a pretty great lifestyle because of that job. My suggestion is to constantly be brainstorming how to hack your job to work a minimum of hours but still get paid. With your newfound free time, dedicate a number of hours per week to side gigs and cash under the table.

Abandon the American perspective that money=toys/decadence and adopt a mindset that money=freedom. Freedom to travel, freedom to unplug, freedom to retire early.

Checking out means different things to different people. It sounds like you've already checked out mentally, and that's the first step. Many people are dissatisfied with their lives so they pacify themselves with substances and materialism. It takes a certain amount of courage and strength to embrace your dissatisfaction and act on it rather than pacify it.

Start anywhere. Make one small change every month for a more fulfilling and "unplugged" life. After a year you'll look back and realize you've come a long way.

I'm realizing it's a double edged sword as well. The more I travel and the more I experience foreign cultures and being outside of my safety zone, the more I want to be there. The things that were slightly intolerable to you before will become increasingly intolerable. It's just part of the deal.

Post: #23

I was making good coin in the corporate world, but I didn't like the shackles, so I freed myself.

Here's what I did: I negotiated a severance package from work and then moved to a low-cost country where I had enough savings to live for a year. Time your exit so that it's after you get your annual bonus.

Reduce your expenses to the bare minimum. Think of cool things to do for dates that don't cost much. Art shows, bike riding, kite flying, salsa dancing, cooking at home, host gatherings/afterparties at your place, etc.

Figure out how to make cash when your savings run out. Can you find a flexible remote IT job? Can you freelance? You'll eventually figure something out. I started a couple of businesses, did some private tutoring, taught some courses. I also rented out my house while I lived abroad and renegotiated my mortgage so that my rental income covered the expenses.

It's been 5 years and I love it, even though I'm earning far less than I was in the corporate world. Like WIA said, having the flexibility to decide what you do today is way better than sitting in a cubicle and having someone else decide.

Post: #24

I'm on my way out of the system, I suppose...

Post: #25

What system?