Post: #1

I'm going to try and make this as short and alpha as possible.

Basically had a health issue since a young age. No fault situation just a shitty hand in life. I've spent a lot of money and had a few surgeries. There is one last surgery that can significantly help me — it costs $100,000. In my experience, estimates from doctors need to be increased 30-50%. So we are talking $130,000 — $150,000.

Any thoughts on getting the surgery, cashing out my chips and booking a ticket to EE? Advice on actually doing that?

Pros:
-I have some savings so if I can get it to my new location I could live comfortably for quite some time.
-I have an account in the EU I could transfer most of the money to and then pick it up there.
-I have friends in EE who are willing to help. I have also traveled there.
-I can easily get a job teaching English. I've done that before.

Cons:
-I have excellent credit.
-I probably won't be able to finish my graduate degree.
-I have some great securities investments that I don't want to cash out but might otherwise be seized (paging WestCoast...)

In my pre-red pill life, I probably would have just made payments for the next 20 years and let the banks bend me over a barrel. I also would have felt bad for the doctor for not getting paid. Yeah, fuck that shit.

Post: #2

What's your health issue, kid?

Post: #3

svenski7, I don't know exactly your situation, but to go into something with the full intention of not honoring a deal is a big lack of integrity.

I am sure we will never meet but I would never trust you in a deal.

With the new affordable care act isn't there some way to have the surgery on a much cheaper basis?

I get red pill and alpha are terms thrown around a lot on here. But I don't think either terms really mean breaking deals.

But if you can look yourself in the mirror, go ahead and do it. I am not trying to sound judgmental, though it may be coming off that way.

I have just learned over the years, your word is your bond. And yes I believe in karma. I feel much of what I have achieved in life is because I try really hard to be a fair dealer - but at the same time I don't give crap and don't accept when it is given to me.

You want something and you don't want to pay for it. And that is ok?

I am very sorry about being dealt a health issue. I truly am.

There was some thread on hear about a guy wanting borrow money and lie on his credit app or something. I think a lot of posts were along the lines of what I am writing about. And it seems these days the government and institutions are good at tracking people down. I think Ali was talking about how the government is prepared to keep people from leaving the country who owe money. And you might never be able to come back into the US, I don't know exactly, but things are changing quickly in this world.

I wish you luck on whatever you decide to do, I just don't think going red pill meant trying to pull a fast one.

Post: #4

I'm with samsamsam. ^^^^^

I have a brother who has lived his life this way: skipping out on bills, swindling people, even faking his way into college. His life hasn't gone well. In fact, he's gone nowhere. No one can be honest all of the time, but skipping out on a $100K bill is a bit much.

That said, have you thought about doing a Kickstarter or some other type of fundraising project to raise money for the surgery? If people can fund stupid indie films and crappy bands, they'd likely get behind your health issue as well --- if you present it right.

And have you looked into whether insurance definitely won't cover this? Especially under the new health care law?

Finally, a $100K loan isn't that hard to pay off depending on what you do and if you can incorporate freelance work. I paid off a condo loan ahead of time but just working extra hours and adding extra money to each installment.

Post: #5

Have you considered getting the surgery abroad?

Post: #6

samsamsam Wrote:With the new affordable care act isn't there some way to have the surgery on a much cheaper basis?

Even though I wouldn't call myself a 'supporter,' ACA is the only way I currently have any insurance. I had insurance through my employer for the previous surgeries but I had to quit my job because of the injury. The previous surgery was $60k — which I paid.

samsamsam Wrote:You want something and you don't want to pay for it. And that is ok?

No man, it's not ok and that's why I'm putting it up on RVF.

I understand your business and honor perspective on this. I am an MBA student and entrepreneur — I understand what you're saying. If someone skipped out on $100k for a service I provided, I'd probably pay to have them whacked over in EE.

I've always paid my bills. In fact, between the time I posted the thread and this reply, I called up one of the doctors and paid the bill in full. I also worked out two payment plans with other doctors today. I don't mention this out of some sort of sense of entitlement rather to show this would be very unusual behavior for me.

I've never borrowed money from any institution. I have no student debt, no mortgage or car payment.

The argument is beta emotional and machiavellian in nature. Perhaps this is a dark side of my red pill.

Post: #7

^^ This.

Go abroad. I bet you can get it done effectively for 1/5 of the price, if not less.

Post: #8

If I were in your position I would consider having the surgery abroad as previously mentioned. Thailand/Mexico/Colombia. Especially considering you are likely to need further care down the line, you might as well investigate it, and this would seem to solve both issues at once. Deal with health and getting away.

Post: #9

(10-16-2013 07:19 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  Have you considered getting the surgery abroad?

This.

Also, I think a few people in here are living in a fairy tale.

When you hustle, the risk of being hustled yourself comes with the territory. 100k is a drop in the bucket to the medical establishment in this country. Remember, these people will let you die before they cut into their enormous profit margins.

The best way to handle this particular situation is to get the work done in another country where you will get the same care for a fraction of the cost.

However, I'd like to point out the difference between integrity and letting people fuck you over.

Going to college, working long hours, getting married young, starting a family, etc. are considered (or once were) the "right" things to do. Go see how that worked out for a lot of people.

There's a difference between honor and stupidity. The samurai were so honorable that they would kill themselves over it. Then a bunch of cats came through and gunned them down. A dishonorable foe doesn't deserve your respect if it comes at your disadvantage.

Post: #10

Check out Costa Rica, Thailand, Mexico. They are cheap places where you can live comfortably with a strong medical tourism sector. I wouldn't recommend EE for medical tourism since the region has crappy infrastructure compared to the other places. You can move to CR,Th,Mex and freelance from there while you're recuperating from your surgery.

Then again, your surgery might be something new that is not available abroad. My ex is a dentist in Mexico and never heard of Invisaling (the braces without braces thing).

Post: #11

Thanks for the additional perspective and have my respect for how you handled yourself in the past. I also know my respect means very little but you have it anyway

Questions (ok - gonna try to break it down like a business problem)
1) How soon do you need to have the surgery? Is it urgent?
2) How badly impacted are you by this condition?
3) It seems like you have some wits and ambition - could you take your current resources and grow them so that the 100K wouldn't be so bad? Thanks to RVF I stumbled across Fastlane Millionaire. Is it the greatest book ever, no. Did I know a lot of it already, yes. But I still learned some things from it and it is broken up into 5 to 10 page chapters. Enough to read while taking a crap. My point? It gave me some food for thought on developing the right type of internet business. You want to make money, reach as many people as you can and offer them some value. It may be a no brainer - but it sometimes when you see it in print - it really lands.
4) Consider the international option for surgery?
5) Here is a stretch - but can you use some of your skills to barter down some of the costs? I imagine these are hospitals we are dealing with and not necessarily a single practitioner

Here is an article about how prices vary drastically for the same surgery - and sometimes the outcomes are no different.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davechase/20...sts-50-90/

I am sure if you want to play it straight and do the right thing and maybe share a bit more about the condition, there are people here who could offer valuable insights - more than I can. Heck maybe there is a doctor on the forum that specializes in what you need.

Post: #12

I personally know a guy who had a surgery done in New Zealand for something like %15-20 of what it would have cost him in U.S. just a few years ago. He raised money with an internet campaign (but also cashed out his life insurance and borrowed some from a family member). Under the ACA he would have been covered at home, but his insurance company basically swindled him before it was illegal. He said it was a fantastic experience, and can't say enough good things about the way medicine is practiced there compared to here.

You may have some options, is what I'm saying.

Post: #13

Go abroad go abroad go abroad. Do the research. Under no circumstance should you pay this much money (assuming insurance will not cover it) in the US. This is sheer insanity. Many many countries are capable of high level medical care. There are companies in the US that cater to medical tourism, talk to them. The only people who need to come to the US is for ultra specialized surgery (conjoined twins) or some kind of experimental drug that is not available anywhere else and is not FDA approved.

Here are some links to get you started:

http://www.planethospital.com/
http://www.medretreat.com/
http://www.worldmedassist.com/

As you can see, this is a competitive market.

Post: #14

Here are the problems with going abroad.

1. Technical. The implant I need has recently been upgraded. Let's call it version 2.0 The difference is that the device can now recognize if I'm standing, sitting or in bed and adjust itself accordingly. I need version 2.0 which has only been on the market for one year. It is only available in the US.

2. Travel. I have never traveled to SE Asia or Latin America and don't know anyone there. I'm not afraid of going by myself but I don't like the idea of being alone in the hospital post-surgery.

I did go to a hospital in EE. One doctor who spoke limited English told me, "Your brains are falling out." They told me I needed to take vitamins and then stuck a syringe full of "vitamins" in my ass cheek. My friend who was translating laughed his ass off! In the end all of the EE doctors told me to return to the US.

samsamsam Wrote:1) How soon do you need to have the surgery? Is it urgent?

Not urgent or life-threatening.

samsamsam Wrote:2) How badly impacted are you by this condition?

Had to quit two jobs and cut a vacation short within the last year. I had to relocate to the other side of US for medical care. Left all my social circles, etc.

samsamsam Wrote:3) It seems like you have some wits and ambition - could you take your current resources and grow them so that the 100K wouldn't be so bad? Thanks to RVF I stumbled across Fastlane Millionaire. Is it the greatest book ever, no. Did I know a lot of it already, yes. But I still learned some things from it and it is broken up into 5 to 10 page chapters. Enough to read while taking a crap. My point? It gave me some food for thought on developing the right type of internet business. You want to make money, reach as many people as you can and offer them some value. It may be a no brainer - but it sometimes when you see it in print - it really lands.

Currently reading Think and Grow Rich and The Intelligent Investor.

samsamsam Wrote:4) Consider the international option for surgery?

Yes. I'm keeping an open mind.

samsamsam Wrote:5) Here is a stretch - but can you use some of your skills to barter down some of the costs? I imagine these are hospitals we are dealing with and not necessarily a single practitioner

Yes, this is what one friend (also MBA) suggested. He fell down on some ice a couple years ago and broke his wrist. The surgery was about $20k but since he had limited funds he setup long-term payment plan. The billing department called him a few months later and offered a $10k lump sum settlement which he took.

Enigma Wrote:However, I'd like to point out the difference between integrity and letting people fuck you over.

0:40 - 1:10 is exactly how I feel.

That said I'm not going to die and I'm not Denzel Washington's son.

Post: #15

What surgery do you need?

You list "having good credit" as a "con" in your first post. I don't understand? You mean you have good credit and are worried you could wreck it by getting a surgery you can't afford and then working out a payment plan and then leaving the country before making all of the payments?

I wouldn't recommend that.

Try to find a plan that would cover the surgery. You can't get turned down for insurance now due to pre existing conditions under the current law(essentially it is like buying fire insurance after your house burns down and still getting the insurance to buy you another house).

Again, I can't stress enough, you could be getting a lot better advice if we knew what surgery you were looking to get.

Post: #16

What is going on here?

Post: #17

Could you at least tell us what you have?

No one will judge you.

Maybe it'll help your situation.

Post: #18

I don't want to be some kind of an asshole here, but have you considered getting the surgery done overseas and skipping out on them? You could probably steal an identity on the internet and get all your surgical work done in Mexico under some dead guy's name. Make a cash deposit or a few payments then do whatever you were planning on doing. There's a lot of risk involved with this but if you're committed to conning your way into medical treatment that's a good way of going about it. My guess is that they'll be wise to your bullshit (many people have likely executed this idea) so do your homework.

I just don't see why you'd risk never being allowed back into your home country due to skipping out on debt (Canada? US?). What if somebody told you "You can't ever come back to Cambodia"? I wouldn't be terribly bothered either. You'd be doing a huge disservice to a poor country but it seems to me that you're intent on screwing somebody.

Post: #19

Contact this hospital here in BKK: http://www.bumrungrad.com/

It is one of the newest and best hospitals here. Tons of rich Arabs, Indians, Japanese, etc. come here for medical tourism. The place is like a 5 star hotel. See if they have the V2.0 that you need. Many, if not damn near all, of their doctors were probably trained in the US.

You could fly someone out here with you and put them up in a hotel and it would cost you less than $2,000. Hell, if you get a good price on flights you could probably do it for $1,500. Bumrungrad is located right in the tourist area so there is tons of shit for them to do, and the hospital itself as I mentioned is crazy nice.

Post: #20

(10-17-2013 08:38 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Contact this hospital here in BKK: http://www.bumrungrad.com/

It is one of the newest and best hospitals here. Tons of rich Arabs, Indians, Japanese, etc. come here for medical tourism. The place is like a 5 star hotel. See if they have the V2.0 that you need. Many, if not damn near all, of their doctors were probably trained in the US.

You could fly someone out here with you and put them up in a hotel and it would cost you less than $2,000. Hell, if you get a good price on flights you could probably do it for $1,500. Bumrungrad is located right in the tourist area so there is tons of shit for them to do, and the hospital itself as I mentioned is crazy nice.

I love this board Always someone with good info.

Post: #21

If you skipped out on a $100k medical bill, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to go back to the US, right? You'd get flagged up at passport control immediately.

And what's with this "alpha actions" and "beta actions"? That frame of mind isn't helping at all, and if you want to be a man about it, you figure out a way of paying your bills and making the money back after. Stealing isn't "alpha".

Post: #22

OP's first thread was about a question regarding a spinal cord problem.

Quote: I'm one year post L4-L5 microdiscectomy/laminectomy and have the same amount of sciatic pain. The doctors in Seattle can't see anything on the MRI so they think there is some permanent nerve damage. It hurts like hell. If this would work, I'd get the surgery.

OP, you won't get stopped at passport control. That's a civil case that the government cannot get involved in.

Go to Thailand or Costa Rica.

Conning people is not alpha.

Post: #23

Sounds like a back or neck surgery.

Am I right?

Post: #24

(10-17-2013 09:00 AM)MattC Wrote:  If you skipped out on a $100k medical bill, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to go back to the US, right? You'd get flagged up at passport control immediately.

And what's with this "alpha actions" and "beta actions"? That frame of mind isn't helping at all, and if you want to be a man about it, you figure out a way of paying your bills and making the money back after. Stealing isn't "alpha".

How would owing money flag passport control?

Post: #25

(10-17-2013 11:39 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(10-17-2013 09:00 AM)MattC Wrote:  If you skipped out on a $100k medical bill, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to go back to the US, right? You'd get flagged up at passport control immediately.

And what's with this "alpha actions" and "beta actions"? That frame of mind isn't helping at all, and if you want to be a man about it, you figure out a way of paying your bills and making the money back after. Stealing isn't "alpha".

How would owing money flag passport control?

Looks like the US owing money to the IRS could keep you from traveling.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arch...rt/255940/