Post: #1

I've spent the last couple of days reading about travel hackers signing up for shitloads of credit cards all at once, getting the big signup bonuses of frequent flier miles, and then closing the cards before the annual fee becomes due (usually part of the signup bonus is that the first year annual fee is waived, so they typically can keep the card for 2 years without paying any fees).

Most cards offer anywhere from 30,000 to 50,000 miles as a signup bonus, and these sometimes obsessive and very dedicated hackers just sign up for around 5-10 cards, accrue 250,000+ miles and then start flying business class everywhere until their miles run out. Rinse and repeat. They also do all sorts of online surveys and ad watching and stuff for bonus miles too.

Example: http://chrisguillebeau.com/3x5/frequent-...e-returns/

There is a "catch", I guess, which is you'll need a decent income to get your application approved, and there are minimum spends before the miles are credited to you. However this requirement only seems to go as high as $2,000 in 3 months, which is easy (although on 10 different cards all at once, probably not, unless you're a baller). In any case, it just seems like a no brainer if you could sign up for 2 credit cards, get 100,000 miles and then go take a business class flight to wherever.

Has anyone tried this? Unfortunately I'm not a US citizen, so I'm not eligible for the majority of these cards. I've looked at the cards back home and there's just not enough competition for credit card companies to need to make offers like this.

At first I thought it was bs but after some heavy Googling a lot of people seem to be doing it and it sounds legit. There's even dedicated forums where people post all the latest deals and everyone signs up, gets points, and goes flying around the world together. In fact I feel rather stupid for not having heard about this sooner.

Be keen to hear from anywhere who's had any success with this, and if anyone knows options for non US citizens.

Post: #2

There are a couple of threads on this. And yes, credit card churning is a perfectly viable strategy for generating miles. Your credit rating will however take a hit and if you're late to cancel a card in time your margins will soon disappear.

Personally I just buy miles and book award seats when I want to fly with style. CC churning requires a bunch of research and micromanagement.

Post: #3

(10-10-2013 05:50 AM)Vicious Wrote:  There are a couple of threads on this. And yes, credit card churning is a perfectly viable strategy for generating miles. Your credit rating will however take a hit and if you're late to cancel a card in time your margins will soon disappear.

Personally I just buy miles and book award seats when I want to fly with style. CC churning requires a bunch of research and micromanagement.

Think I remember you use US Airways miles, Vicious. Better get on it while you still can, once they merge with AA, that shit's going to be way more expensive.

Post: #4

(10-10-2013 10:06 PM)booshala Wrote:  Think I remember you use US Airways miles, Vicious. Better get on it while you still can, once they merge with AA, that shit's going to be way more expensive.

My money's on the merger not happening. DOJ filed suit to block it, and they had some pretty strong arguments. Apparently they've only lost like 1 out of 80+ antritrust cases in the last 10 years, which I take to mean that when DOJ files suit, they do it if they think they have a very strong case.

Back to the topic, yeah this can work if you have the time to manage it all, and I think most people who qualify for the various cards are simply too busy to be bothered. Also, you can't have too many credit cards open at once unless you have a high income -- when you apply, the card companies will computer your total credit lines vs income and take that into consideration.

Post: #5

I checked for flights using air miles and the "taxes" seem to cost 80% of the regular fee. Not much difference compared to just buying it without air miles.

Post: #6

This game has been going on for years. The mother of all points was the $1 coin with free shipping.
fatwallet , thepointsguy, flyertalk is where the experts are on this topic

Post: #7

(10-11-2013 10:35 AM)Collide Wrote:  I checked for flights using air miles and the "taxes" seem to cost 80% of the regular fee. Not much difference compared to just buying it without air miles.

Depends by airline. For example, Southwest Airlines only charges a $2.50 fee each way and nothing else.

Post: #8

Relevant article. Guy flew around the world for under $220 by gaming the system:

http://spartantraveler.com/how-i-flew-ar...-than-220/

Post: #9

I think it has been mentioned here before:

The "Baht Run." Steve hired 20 Thai farmers back in 2001 to fly back and forth on short runs so he could rack up millions of miles through a loophole. According to the article, he had around 27 Million frequent flier miles by the time it was all done.

http://www.executivetravelmagazine.com/a...lier-miles

I have never done anything like that myself, but that article directs to a website called "flyertalk" where people obsessed with getting the most out of the airlines share tips.

Edit: Excuse the necrobump. Came here through another bookmarked thread and now can't delete.

Post: #10

(10-10-2013 05:50 AM)Vicious Wrote:  There are a couple of threads on this. And yes, credit card churning is a perfectly viable strategy for generating miles. Your credit rating will however take a hit and if you're late to cancel a card in time your margins will soon disappear.

This is not true.

When you get a credit card that has a high limit and don't max it out, your credit rate increases because your credit utilization ratio improves.

I have like six figures or something in credit card limits and my rating is through the roof - because I don't carry a monthly balance. When it comes to credit, the people who don't need credit are the ones with the highest credit ratings.

Since playing the miles game, I have:
* Flown first glass with my girl from LAX to NYC for free (each ticket would have cost $3,500)
* Taken numerous flights from LAX to Vegas, Denver, Phoenix, Miami for free.
* Stayed in five star resort for a week for free (Westin Starwood miles).

Well, not technically for free. Some of the cards have annual fees. But the fees are usually not even 10% the cost relative to the value in miles I receive.

I currently have over 100,000 miles in Southwest, 50,000 in American Airlines, 125,000 in British Airways (which you can use on American Airlines).

OP, check out Million Mile Secrets for more info. He goes into all of the details.

I could share my strategy but I'd just be repeating him. Just know that it's possible and ignore the bad info from people who don't even play the game.

The way I differ from "churners" is that I don't buy Moneypacks or anything to meet my minimum spending.

If a new credit card requires me to spend $3,000 in the first three months, then I use that card for all of my bills/spending to meet my limit.

Some people will get multiple cards that have minimum spends and then buy gift cards or something in order to meet the minimum spends.

I'm not that extreme. I just pay by bills and shop/spend as I normally do.

I just get a new credit card after I meet the minimum spend for a rewards card.

I get credit cards for my business, too.

It's great. Like I said, read Million Mile Secrets, as he posts up the new and best offers and goes into the strategies.

Post: #11

As usual, MikeCF weighs in with quality info.

I've racked up 3 million plus miles in the past two years with a combination of credit card sign ups, paid butt in seat miles and a bunch of travel hacking and manufactured spending tactics.

Unfortunately for anyone wanting to start and looking to fly in premium cabins, the airlines have most devalued their awards to the point of not making it worth it anymore. For example, a first class flight from LAX to Bangkok with a stopover in Frankfurt used to cost 140,000 united miles. Now it's going up to 270k next year. A bunch of other unfortunate changes that are customer unfriendly... Or rather, not nearly as generous as before. If you want to fly domestic, these changes aren't so bad, but I love taking first class to Asia, Europe and Oceania. Just booked a first class flight to Dubai on the A380 where you can shower on the plane. Ridiculous...

There are lots of blogs that go into earning and burning miles, in addition to Million Miles Secrets, One Mile at a Time and View from the wing are the two most popular. Mightytravels.com and milevalue.com put out quality info as well.

Post: #12

(12-20-2013 08:32 PM)booshala Wrote:  AJust booked a first class flight to Dubai on the A380 where you can shower on the plane. Ridiculous...

Post: #13

(12-20-2013 07:02 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 05:50 AM)Vicious Wrote:  There are a couple of threads on this. And yes, credit card churning is a perfectly viable strategy for generating miles. Your credit rating will however take a hit and if you're late to cancel a card in time your margins will soon disappear.

This is not always true.

When you get a credit card that has a high limit and don't max it out, your credit rate increases because your credit utilization ratio improves.

Fixed. Italics are my emphasis.

And you snipped away the part where I mention CC churning means micromanagement. Dealing with the limits is one such task and not everyone are eligible for high limits.

In any event CCs are usually a small part of your credit rating. If you have a mortgage the CCs impact might even be negligible.

I even said it's a perfectly viable strategy so I have no idea what you mean by "bad info".

---

Unrelated, I just earned my 2-for-1 Travel voucher on SAS Amex. Problem is that it's getting madly difficult finding award seat inventory.

For this I recommend http://www.expertflyer.com/ that can give you mail alerts when award seat inventory becomes available on specified flights.

Post: #14

there are a number of good sites about this

http://www.freefrequentflyermiles.com/index.htm

there are entire forums dedicated to it as well:

http://www.flyertalk.com
and
http://www.fatwallet.com
http://www.slickdeals.net
both have travel forums for deals and discounts.

Post: #15

(12-20-2013 10:11 PM)Vicious Wrote:  And you snipped away the part where I mention CC churning means micromanagement. Dealing with the limits is one such task and not everyone are eligible for high limits.

Not really.

Here is what I personally do. This is not theory.

Got a Chase Southwest card for 50,000 miles. The "basic" one.

Spend $3,000 and got my miles.

Then got a SW premier card. 50K miles.

Spend $3,000 and got my miles.

Then got a business one (the basic one) for 50K miles.

Spend $3,000 and got my miles.

Next I'm gonna get the business premier.

The SW cards have an annual fee but you get the equivalent in miles, so it's a wash.

So that'll be 200K in bonus miles in addition to the 3K miles you get as part of your minimum spend on each card.

IOW, if you get all 4 Southwest cards, you're looking at 212K miles.

That's a lot of travel on Southwest. Round trip to Vegas from LAX is 9K miles. Round trip to Denver is 12K. Round trip to JFK is 25K.

Got a British Airways one. 50K miles. Those can be used on British Airways or for American Airlines. I just used 12.5K miles to fly from Miami to LAX on American Airlines.

Lots of free travel for me. It's not hard.

It's simple. I log into one account interface at Chase and just set my card to autopay. The cards all just show up on one screen.

It's actually really easy.

Have you ever done it yourself?

Post: #16

(12-20-2013 10:25 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Have you ever done it yourself?

With 20+ cards.
I used to have spreadsheets to keep track of when I got them, when they were activated, the requirements for the miles, the tiers etc

Mind you this was in the early to mid 2000's and it's possible that the online support is more solid today than back then.

Today the bottleneck are international award seat inventory (domestic US is actually fair) so I have more miles than I can spend and a fair deal that has expired because I couldn't use it.

Post: #17

I also got an AmEx platinum when they were offering the 100K sign on bonus.

(Not everyone can get one of those, but I have the credit for one. In other words, concerns about credit being lowered from getting credit cards are not legitimate at all.)

AmEx had a deal with British Airways where you got a 25 (or 33, can't remember )% boost.

Boom. 130K British Airways miles.

AmEx platinum has a $450 annual fee, but I'll cancel it at end of the year. I just used it to get the 100K miles sign up. So 130K miles cost me $450.

But I used 75,000 of those miles to fly myself and my girl first class from LAX to NYC. That'd have cost me $3,500 a ticket.

It costs me roughly 12,500 miles for a one-way on American Airlines to most places in the U.S. I fly one way from Miami to LAX for 12.5K miles. That flight (I priced it online) would have been $300.

I'm making out like a bandit here and I haven't even used all of my miles!

But the AmEx card does a reimbursement for travel fees (American Airlines charges $25 for first checked bag), so my cost was even less.

Plus, I visited Admiral's lounge, a lot better to sleep in compared to regular terminals, for free. That's $50 a pop usually. I stayed there twice (once with my girl and once by myself). There's $150 in benefits.

My latest card is a Citi Premier. That'll cost me $450 a year, but I'll only have it for one year. That got me 60K American Airline miles. Plus free bag check in, free Admiral's Club, priority pass check in on American Airlines etc.

Without micromanaging anything. It's just a simple matter of making sure I put away one credit card and start using the new credit card.

Post: #18

(12-20-2013 10:37 PM)Vicious Wrote:  Today the bottleneck are international award seat inventory (domestic US is actually fair) so I have more miles than I can spend and a fair deal that has expired because I couldn't use it.

That could be. I don't do much international travel. I have read about fuel charges and whatnot for international travel.

I can use my American Airlines miles to fly to Cabo from LAX. It ends up being 12.5K or so miles with a $52 fuel surcharge. It's much cheaper than paying cash.

I'm biased towards the West Coast. If I can get to Vegas, Denver/Boulder, Phoenix, and Cabo for free…I am good to go.

Post: #19

(12-20-2013 10:25 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(12-20-2013 10:11 PM)Vicious Wrote:  And you snipped away the part where I mention CC churning means micromanagement. Dealing with the limits is one such task and not everyone are eligible for high limits.

Not really.

Here is what I personally do. This is not theory.

Got a Chase Southwest card for 50,000 miles. The "basic" one.

Spend $3,000 and got my miles.

Then got a SW premier card. 50K miles.

Spend $3,000 and got my miles.

Then got a business one (the basic one) for 50K miles.

Spend $3,000 and got my miles.

Next I'm gonna get the business premier.

The SW cards have an annual fee but you get the equivalent in miles, so it's a wash.

So that'll be 200K in bonus miles in addition to the 3K miles you get as part of your minimum spend on each card.

IOW, if you get all 4 Southwest cards, you're looking at 212K miles.

That's a lot of travel on Southwest. Round trip to Vegas from LAX is 9K miles. Round trip to Denver is 12K. Round trip to JFK is 25K.

Got a British Airways one. 50K miles. Those can be used on British Airways or for American Airlines. I just used 12.5K miles to fly from Miami to LAX on American Airlines.

Lots of free travel for me. It's not hard.

It's simple. I log into one account interface at Chase and just set my card to autopay. The cards all just show up on one screen.

It's actually really easy.

Have you ever done it yourself?

Did you apply for the companion pass on southwest? You get that after earning 110k miles in a calendar year. Your companion flies free wherever you go minus taxes.

Post: #20

(12-20-2013 10:43 PM)booshala Wrote:  Did you apply for the companion pass on southwest? You get that after earning 110k miles in a calendar year. Your companion flies free wherever you go minus taxes.

That's for 110k flown (ie butt in seat) miles and not miles earned through other venues.

Post: #21

(12-20-2013 10:48 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(12-20-2013 10:43 PM)booshala Wrote:  Did you apply for the companion pass on southwest? You get that after earning 110k miles in a calendar year. Your companion flies free wherever you go minus taxes.

I'm assuming that's for 110k flown (ie butt in seat) and not miles earned through other venues.

You'd think that, it would make sense, but I found out…

That's not true!

http://millionmilesecrets.com/2013/10/20...ss-timing/

So, yep, I got the companion passion, too.

You can change it 3 times, so basically you can fly three people in three different trips.

Bring "sand to the beach" (are you in the U.S.? in the U.S. that means brining your girlfriend to a place where you can find sex) on one trip, bring a guy friend on another.

They fly for free.

Not too shabby.

Post: #22

You would think that companies would have some sort of early termination fee if you cancel the card within a certain time period. Maybe so few people do this that the losses are insignificant.

Post: #23

(12-20-2013 11:18 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  You would think that companies would have some sort of early termination fee if you cancel the card within a certain time period. Maybe so few people do this that the losses are insignificant.

Yeah what MikeCF writes about is definitely possible, but it's more hassle than most people will bother with, despite all the benefits. That's why they don't asses early termination fees I think.

I just upgraded my United MileagePlus Visa to a higher level version (with a $95 annual fee) because the mileage earning rate is much better and because of the bonuses. Even that for me was a pain in the butt, because I had to apply for it as a new card (in order to get signing bonus), and then spent an hour or two going through all the websites with my old Visa on file or with auto-billing (Amazon, Tivo, etc) and update them to this new Visa.

It's basically a trade-off of time vs. money. There's still only 24 hours in a day, so you have to decide how to best spend that time. That varies greatly for each person.

Post: #24

Great stuff mike and vicious. As always, useful posts.

I've got the credit to pull some of this, but I've always looked at these miles grabs as a huge investment of time and micromanagement.

How much time in terms if research do I need to invest into figuring out these miles programs? Is it a large initial time investment that becomes progressively easier? Is there a significant amount of time investment every month with this stuff?

What's my first step?

Sorry for sounding so clueless, but you are two guys I really trust, and while your means to the end sounds a bit different, the idea is the same. I'd love a miles hack for dummies post.

Post: #25

Before you do anything else, what's your need? Are we talking about 2-3 international flights a year (round-trip) or a bunch of domestic flights?

These are the two different camps Mike and I are in. My need these days entirely means I just buy and burn miles at certain sales (I have a separate thread on it). This is mainly fire and forget.

If you have a lot of spend/year that you put on CCs anyhow churning is the way to go.

If you elaborate a bit I can guide you better.