(10-01-2013 09:36 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Threads like this can be quite revealing in exposing the depths of one's psychosis.

Some guys are just totally off the deep end.

Resorting to Ad Hominem, NICE.

A pattern common in leftists.

(10-01-2013 09:30 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  You are very naive...

................. if that doesn't tell you anything then I'm not sure there is any help for you. ...............

Jaydublin: I would not mind engaging in a civilized talk with you about your various points b/c some of them are good, especially when you explain them a little bit more.

Nonetheless, i find it very distracting to the conversation and unnecessary in my mind when you feel that it is necessary to throw out denigrating remarks towards me.

I am doing my best to make my points, and I would like to make them without attacking anyone b/c people are entitled to their various opinions... especially on topics like this that become very complicated and convoluted.

Many of us can get distracted by misinformed and inaccurate talking points.... and if I am a victim of such, I do not mind being corrected or redirected by the substance of the discussion, yet I become a little more irritated when I am being insulted for seemingly no good reason.

Anyhow, right now, I am preparing to go out for salsa dancing.. so I don't anticipate being able to respond for a few hours.

(10-01-2013 09:42 PM)NY Digital Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 09:36 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Threads like this can be quite revealing in exposing the depths of one's psychosis.

Some guys are just totally off the deep end.

Resorting to Ad Hominem, NICE.

A pattern common in leftists.

Ad hominem attacks are not strategies for any particular side... and calling someone a leftist is not only an ad hominem attack, it is distracting with labels that are unnecessary for discussing the substance.

(10-01-2013 09:42 PM)NY Digital Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 09:36 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Threads like this can be quite revealing in exposing the depths of one's psychosis.

Some guys are just totally off the deep end.

Resorting to Ad Hominem, NICE.

A pattern common in leftists.

Ha. That wasn't directed at anyone in particular obviously, which is what an ad hominem would require. It was rather a setup for the joke (youtube clip).

So, your next sentence is nullified.

We are all naive on different topics. It probably does not come across well on here.

The same as mentioning Fox News when debating someones points. It's quite the backhanded insult these days.

Have fun with Salsa, I need to start my lessons again actually.

(10-01-2013 09:45 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 09:30 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  You are very naive...

................. if that doesn't tell you anything then I'm not sure there is any help for you. ...............

Jaydublin: I would not mind engaging in a civilized talk with you about your various points b/c some of them are good, especially when you explain them a little bit more.

Nonetheless, i find it very distracting to the conversation and unnecessary in my mind when you feel that it is necessary to throw out denigrating remarks towards me.

I am doing my best to make my points, and I would like to make them without attacking anyone b/c people are entitled to their various opinions... especially on topics like this that become very complicated and convoluted.

Many of us can get distracted by misinformed and inaccurate talking points.... and if I am a victim of such, I do not mind being corrected or redirected by the substance of the discussion, yet I become a little more irritated when I am being insulted for seemingly no good reason.

Anyhow, right now, I am preparing to go out for salsa dancing.. so I don't anticipate being able to respond for a few hours.

At this point, I wish the government would just shut down forever.

(10-01-2013 09:57 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  We are all naive on different topics. It probably does not come across well on here.

Yes, frequently, we run the risk of antagonizing people more than necessary when we are quickly writing something and possibly not appropriately adjusting the tone in order not to attack other people.... sure once in a while we may want to get our digs in but, it is not an easy balance in writing and when we really do not know each other.

(10-01-2013 09:57 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  The same as mentioning Fox News when debating someones points. It's quite the backhanded insult these days. .

I'll concede somewhat on that point b/c you are correct that in essence I do not know whether you and/or others are getting your talking points from Fox News or some Fox News affiliate. So those kinds of comments may be too presumptive and unnecessary to make the points that i would like to make.

I think that ultimately my point was meant to be that there are some people that engage in a style of asking a whole bunch of questions that contain presumptions and even some untruths or are otherwise difficult to answer to get us thinking about all the negatives of the Affordable Healthcare Act (AHCA). I think these strategies and tactics are distracting, and may cause listeners to have to research into or attempt to answer these multiple quasi-irrelevant questions..

I thought that this thread was mostly aiming at questions concerning the government shut down, and in post # 27 of this thread, i attempted to pose several questions that I thought were on point for this topic.
Responses were somewhat scattered concerning my questions - and kept getting into AHCA rather than the govt shut down.

(10-01-2013 07:45 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  What do guys think about these further developments of the Federal Government shut down?

To what extent, are you personally affected in any way?

How long do you think that this shut down will last?

Do you have any prediction concerning what the resolution of this shut down will be?

Is the shut down good for the US or for other countries?

How will the shut down affect the US economy / the world economy and the view that other governments and financial institutions have about the United States, and our ability to keep the government open?

Doesn't it seem that the United States merely moves from one crisis to another? and in a couple of weeks, there is going to be another debt ceiling crisis, no? How will that play out?

(10-01-2013 09:57 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  Have fun with Salsa, I need to start my lessons again actually.

I took quite a few lessons my first couple of years; however, now I have been dancing more than 11 years, and i find it to be quite an enjoyable hobby.

(10-01-2013 10:48 PM)Samseau Wrote:  At this point, I wish the government would just shut down forever.

This is the effect that tea party obstructionist want to achieve.. for people to become frustrated with govt.. and ultimately, then these tea party obstructionists can get their way by causing people to lose confidence in govt, which ultimately causes anarchy and further exploitation of people by the well - to - do.

If you think about the plot, it is ridiculous b/c the house had passed legislation about 40 times in the past three years to vote to overturn AHCA... and those were largely symbolic and a waste of time.. now they are crying babies and want to continue to try to get this matter onto the agenda and see shutting down the govt and sabotaging the credit of the US as their opportunity again to keep attempting to revisit the same question... what persistence and inability to move on...

In essence, government is supposed to be a tool of the people to protect the people from exploitation and if we can remove money influence from govt and to have people take over govt, then we would be in a much better place to achieve rule by the people - even though the carrying out and practice of democracy is usually going to be a little messy b/c it allows for participation and input of a variety of people rather than merely having a few rich dictators, which may be more of what we have in the USA...

It seems that we do NOT really have a democracy --- and instead we have a Plutocracy that is run by the few well-to-do rich elitist .1% or some small number of very wealthy that are calling too many of the shots.... which is a sad state of affairs for the people of the United States.

Quote:This is the effect that tea party obstructionist want to achieve.. for people to become frustrated with govt.. and ultimately, then these tea party obstructionists can get their way by causing people to lose confidence in govt, which ultimately causes anarchy and further exploitation of people by the well - to - do.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong.

The less govt. the better the middle class does. The move govt. the better the extremely wealthy do. This is simple economics. The govt. is owned and paid for by the wealthy, and then laws are passed to protect their wealth from creative middle and lower class up and comers.

(10-02-2013 05:55 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Quote:This is the effect that tea party obstructionist want to achieve.. for people to become frustrated with govt.. and ultimately, then these tea party obstructionists can get their way by causing people to lose confidence in govt, which ultimately causes anarchy and further exploitation of people by the well - to - do.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong.

The less govt. the better the middle class does. The move govt. the better the extremely wealthy do. This is simple economics. The govt. is owned and paid for by the wealthy, and then laws are passed to protect their wealth from creative middle and lower class up and comers.

Yeah, I was gonna say, I've never been hurt by the "rich," whoever the fuck they are.





Just another myth.

However, the "government" has been fucking with my life since I was born. First my mother divorced my father over something trivial, a practice put into law by feminists in the 70's (no-fault divorce).

Then I was put in a shitty public school and forced to learn lots of useless bullshit things, because it's illegal not to educate your child in some way and my dad had to work.

Then I couldn't get a job until I was 16 because of some "child exploitation" bullshit law.

Next I've been paying Social Security and Medicare taxes since I could work, and I know I will never get a dime of it back.

Then in college I watched with horror as feminist propaganda was force-fed into women which destroyed them, or the career bullshit mentality which also destroyed them.

In college I was forced to take on heavy loans that cannot be discharged.

Then after I got out the entire economy went to shit and all the government did was bail out the banks that caused the problems.

Now the government is going to force me to get healthcare I don't need to support people I don't know.

I don't know who the "rich" are, but I know who the government is. The rich have never done anything to me, but the government has been fucking with my life since day 1.

Yep Samseau,

The rich, are those who pull the puppet strings of our govt. Which means the more power and control the govt. has, the more the rich control our lives. Whether it be George Soros or Warren Buffet or anyone else calling for higher taxes, it is all the same end result. More govt. in our lives, controlling the middle class men, AKA, the men that visit this site and just want out of this crazy system that gives us no chance at all.

Who made the original push for the feminist movement, or I should say, or was the REAL force behind the feminist movement? Henry Ford and the Rockafellers. Why? Get women to work and tax them, so the wealthy could pay less and have more power over govt. and the lives of the middle class.

Leftism = socialism = destroy the middle class.

Ozymandias --PB Shelley

I met a traveler from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

I had originally thought that this "Government Shutdown" would only last a short while, but I now see that this shutdown is going to go right up until the debt ceiling deadline of October 17th. This shit is getting stupid. The only thing that is going to force the GOP to give up their demand to defund or delay the implementation of the ACA is to have the stock market drop like crazy because we get right up to the debt ceiling deadline.

Regardless of how you feel about the ACA, the tactics employed are what is annoying. If the ACA turns out to be a disaster, then it could be repealed by a later GOP administration. As it stands now, though, the GOP doesn't have votes and yet still wants to repeal it before full implementation. This is madness and it is governing by hostage taking.

(10-01-2013 12:48 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 12:33 AM)Matt Forney Wrote:  ...

Any elected politicians who tries to rein in these bureaucracies always finds himself smacked down, whether it was Scott Walker taking on the public sector unions in Wisconsin two years ago

I thought Walker won, and the unions lost a lot of power.

He did, but facts have little place in a political diatribe.

I don't live in the United States. I live in California. We have our own money. And more patents than any other state as well. Sorry, I just love to rub it in.

1) Everything you hear, you hear because your owners want you to hear it.

2) Most of what you think, you think it because your owners want you to think that.

3) The trick is that they are so smart you think YOU ever so originally came up with your Horatio Alger, bootstrapping, fable belief and anti-societal ("Soshulist") "defiance".

4) Another trick is to get you to pay more but get less.

Gee, the below stats are pretty, bad the Soshulist countries are beating us, I WONDER WHERE ALL THE MONEY WE SPEND GOES? hahhahhahah. Suckers.

Now I know no one wants to know facts, but here is an article from the Journal of The American Medical Association admitting our health care is worse, but more expensive than other developed countries.

http://www.drug-education.info/documents/iatrogenic.pdf

Here's an excerpt. JAMA is about the most mainstream, legit medical journal I know of.

(10-03-2013 12:50 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I don't live in the United States. I live in California. We have our own money. And more patents than any other state as well. Sorry, I just love to rub it in.

(10-03-2013 12:54 AM)Easy E Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 12:50 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I don't live in the United States. I live in California. We have our own money. And more patents than any other state as well. Sorry, I just love to rub it in.

No, no , no that's the OLD governor Gray Davis, now we have the more stylish Jerry Brown.

...and the California pension fund still has 250 billion in it.

Ahhh, the sunshine...

^It is the closest I could find.

As for the tinfoil cartoon, you said California had its own money. It does not.

(10-03-2013 12:58 AM)Easy E Wrote:  ^It is the closest I could find.

As for the tinfoil cartoon, you said California had its own money. It does not.

Nice of you to dig it up!

I actually meant we don't need Federal dollars or half-witted Southern State Tea Party legislators for our workers to enjoy the sunshine.

Billion with a "B" Baby!!

We Soshulists knew they was trying to screw, so we made shure
Calpers has money up the wazoo.

even anti-socialist Cruz, who sent the gubmint down the toobz,
is senator from Texis, and they have 110 Billion too!!

So if you say Unions cause the blooz
maybe it cuz you wish you was in one too!

Because it would be horrible, wudnt it
for people to have a car, a roof and some food

When Wall Streeters only have a paltry 200 ft yacht to cruz.

(10-03-2013 12:50 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  1) Everything you hear, you hear because your owners want you to hear it.

I doubt anyone here watches TV.

Quote:2) Most of what you think, you think it because your owners want you to think that.

Says the guy who repeats 60's slogans.

Quote:3) The trick is that they are so smart you think YOU ever so originally came up with your Horatio Alger, bootstrapping, fable belief and anti-societal ("Soshulist") "defiance".

No one cares about bootstrapping. What we care about is not being toyed with, fucked with, and oppressed by a manical government with a terrible social agenda. No one here thinks government policy will make us rich.

Only liberals believe in such fairytales.

Quote:4) Another trick is to get you to pay more but get less.

That's exactly what Obamacare is.

Quote:Gee, the below stats are pretty, bad the Soshulist countries are beating us, I WONDER WHERE ALL THE MONEY WE SPEND GOES? hahhahhahah. Suckers.

Now I know no one wants to know facts, but here is an article from the Journal of The American Medical Association admitting our health care is worse, but more expensive than other developed countries.

http://www.drug-education.info/documents/iatrogenic.pdf

Here's an excerpt. JAMA is about the most mainstream, legit medical journal I know of.

Those stats have no cited sources nor a listed methodology. They are meaningless. Also, I bet you if you looked at the US white healthcare stats, they are just as good if not better than any European country. Compare what is comparable.

Politically, you may be one of the worst posters on the board. I'm 99% sure that you are a feminist.

Everything you say comes straight from your college days. You have no mind of your own. Thus there is no reason to believe you aren't a feminist.

The GOP is suffering horribly from a lack of fiscal conservatives and moderate Republicans. If the party could take a firm stance on its kooks and just find a base around classic conservatism the next election would be a slam dunk.

Is this only pissing Americans off and making them hate and distrust the government even more? Hmmm what next.

Samseau Wrote:Those stats have no cited sources nor a listed methodology. They are meaningless. Also, I bet you if you looked at the US white healthcare stats, they are just as good if not better than any European country. Compare what is comparable.

Are you saying that you missed these or that for some reason you think they have falsified data?

Quote:The poor performance of the United States was recently confirmed by the World Health Organization [4], which used different indicators. Using data on disability-adjusted life expectancy, child survival to age 5 years, experiences with the health care system and equality of out-of-pocket expenditures for health care (regardless of need for services), this report ranked the United States as 15th among 25 industrialized countries. Thus, the figures regarding the poor position of the United States are robust and not dependent on particular measures used.

Calling people feminists might look good in general when you're coming from a strong position with a lot of arguments, but not when you're just throwing blanket statements around. There are both sources and methodology here, including names like Lancet and British Medical Journal. Look them up.

Quote:Calling people feminists might look good in general when you're coming from a strong position with a lot of arguments, but not when you're just throwing blanket statements around. There are both sources and methodology here, including names like Lancet and British Medical Journal. Look them up.

Liberalism = feminism and feminism = liberalism.

Liberalism cannot survive without feminism. Most men are strong and smart enough to make it on their own and not need govt. to provide for them. Thus without feminism liberalism cannot survive.

So if a poster is calling for liberalism, there is a good chance they are a feminist.