(10-01-2013 01:26 AM)NY Digital Wrote:  

Quote:Makes sense to me. "We wanted to SAVE you from having health insurance, we're so sorry."

Obamacare will only advance the decline of America.

Nothing good will come of it.

I'm curious, what magic spell will the Democrats use to conjure up doctors out of thin air?

Let's not forget all those doctors running away to private practice.

It's okay though, CHANGE is good.

I am of the belief that Obamacare is not creating a disincentive for doctors to make money - even though you may be right that further deteriorations in our health care system may cause decreasing incomes to the doctors.

Ultimately, much of the problems with the US health care system is that it is being controlled too much by big monied interests including insurance companies and drug companies, and our various doctors need to have some autonomy to be able to prescribe treatments rather than being vetoed by insurance and drug companies... which also should include the doctors should be able to prescribe and direct preventative measures rather than just reacting to illnesses.

And overall, yes, this is a complicated topic; however, ultimately, it would be best if regular Americans were deciding what they want with their health care and their health care system rather than having these systems thrust upon us by big Pharma and big insurance companies making the decisions and the politicians afraid to say anything to the contrary in the benefit of actual health care of people.

I just read through this thread, and I had made another thread that has since been closed:

http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-28619.html


Federal Government shut down :

At about 2am Eastern time, the House of Representatives closed shop, and decided to do nothing further about their inability to pass a bill that will pass the senate and the president.

What do guys think about these further developments of the Federal Government shut down?

To what extent, are you personally affected in any way?

How long do you think that this shut down will last?

Do you have any prediction concerning what the resolution of this shut down will be?

Is the shut down good for the US or for other countries?

How will the shut down affect the US economy / the world economy and the view that other governments and financial institutions have about the United States, and our ability to keep the government open?

Doesn't it seem that the United States merely moves from one crisis to another? and in a couple of weeks, there is going to be another debt ceiling crisis, no? How will that play out?

>>>>>>>>Sumanguru Wrote: I'm an essential employee, so I come to work with no idea when I'll get paid. I can't take leave as I'll be AWOL.

Morale is pretty low here today.<<<<<<<<<<<

Yes, Saumanguru, it's a mess, and we should all strive to have enough savings for having our paychecks cut off... just in case...

Currently, I personally have a good year saved that I could live off, but when I was earlier in my career, i had struggled to maintain 2-3 months of savings that i could live off in a worse case emergency scenario. Family is sometimes a back up for emergency funds, but not everyone has the family back up.

Ultimately, and at this time, I am predicting that all federal government employees are going to receive pay for their time off (whether their time off is for a day or for two weeks of govt shut down), b/c there just does not seem to be enough broad support in the public or with politicians to sustain a meaningful and/or long term shut down. But really hoping other RVF members will chime in here, with their opinions.

I may be wrong in my prognosis of how long this shut down will last, though b/c prior to the actual shutdown that began a few hours ago, I had believed that there was not enough support of either politicians or the public to even come to this point of an actual shut down.. I did not think the ones causing the shut down would be that dumb (anyway public sentiment is that a small group of tea party backers in the house of representatives are causing the shut down though there may be a different reality and/or a different perception of reality by RVF members regarding who is causing this problem?). What do i know?

Also, this whole fiasco of shutting down the fed govt to undermine federal workers and maybe even to undermine aspects of American society seems potentially suicidal to the whole standing of the USA in the world - which is largely an artificial confidence structure that is being maintained by some thin threads, that I would think even wealthy people in the USA would not want to screw with this delicate balance that is working to the advantage of the USA.

I mean ultimately I think the goal of the very wealthy in the US is to rob a few more resources from the American people (such as robbing the big pot of social security money) before the place goes down in flames, but what do I know? - that is a form of speculation from me. And, maybe some other RVF members have some thoughts about these kinds of motives to explain why we are where we are at regarding these kinds of crises that seem self-inflicted?

Ride for the constitution
Ride for the constitution facebook

Truckers going on strike to protest against government corruption. Could get interesting. Truckers aren't at the forefront of everyone's mind, but in reality they play a huge role in the smooth operation of a nation - especially one as large and diverse as the USA.

This shit could get nasty

I just did a quick look at the news recap, and in sum last night the house passed a similar version of what it had passed three times earlier requiring either the defunding or the postponement of Obama Care. And, this morning the senate rejected that for the fourth time.

In essence a large majority of Americans consider this to be the house's making to keep on presenting the same issue that really was passed 3 years ago and settled with the Supreme Court - like a bunch of bullies and spoiled brats. IMHO, there are better tactics to get your way rather than being babies and crying over spilled milk. It just seems that the babies are going to have to give in first, in this case, but how long can they hold out and continue to cause damage to the credibility of the US financial legitimacy.

In any event, the stock market seems to be taking this pretty well. The last few days that the market was open, the Dow was down nearly a percentage each day. This morning the Dow is up nearly half a percentage. Go figure! There must be some optimism in the market that this shut down fiasco is going to work itself out soon.

(10-01-2013 09:48 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I just did a quick look at the news recap, and in sum last night the house passed a similar version of what it had passed three times earlier requiring either the defunding or the postponement of Obama Care. And, this morning the senate rejected that for the fourth time.

In essence a large majority of Americans consider this to be the house's making to keep on presenting the same issue that really was passed 3 years ago and settled with the Supreme Court - like a bunch of bullies and spoiled brats. IMHO, there are better tactics to get your way rather than being babies and crying over spilled milk. It just seems that the babies are going to have to give in first, in this case, but how long can they hold out and continue to cause damage to the credibility of the US financial legitimacy.

In any event, the stock market seems to be taking this pretty well. The last few days that the market was open, the Dow was down nearly a percentage each day. This morning the Dow is up nearly half a percentage. Go figure! There must be some optimism in the market that this shut down fiasco is going to work itself out soon.

The House is doing what they were elected to do. Obamacare is very unpopular. So they did their best to stop it.

Now they will work out a plan sometime soon to get the govt. funded 100% again, and the Democrats will own Obamacare 100%. And as Obamacare continues to get worse and worse, the Democrats will have to defend it in upcoming elections.

Maybe the media will not ask the Democrats why certain companies and the DC elected officials and their staffers are given tax payer money so they can get out of Obamacare. But the voters will.

(10-01-2013 09:54 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  The House is doing what they were elected to do. Obamacare is very unpopular. So they did their best to stop it.

Now they will work out a plan sometime soon to get the govt. funded 100% again, and the Democrats will own Obamacare 100%. And as Obamacare continues to get worse and worse, the Democrats will have to defend it in upcoming elections.

Maybe the media will not ask the Democrats why certain companies and the DC elected officials and their staffers are given tax payer money so they can get out of Obamacare. But the voters will.

Surely we can have different opinions about what the people think, and whether the small group of people holding things up in the house represent the people or some narrower and more radical vision of america. If the people of the US are allowed to vote on something with accurate information, then generally, I think people would vote to have better health care in the US, like most industrial countries have, and not a system of health care that is only for the very rich. In fact, no one, even a feminist, should go bankrupt b/c of a health issues... even if the person may be of a "lower" class.

In essence, it seems that a better health care system would strengthen America and its businesses.

I am NOT sure if Obamacare does that exactly, but it has some additional protections for regular people. Now if we could lessen the influence of the drug and insurance companies in this equation about what the people want, then probably we would be talking true will of the people.

Certainly, opinions on this forum may vary... and even families are divided over this issue of affordability of healthcare in America. But that Obamacare legislation had already passed three years ago and been approved by the Supreme Ct, about a year ago, and, maybe those kinds of questions of modifying Obamacare should be a separate debate from shutting down the USA govt.? Opinions may vary.

(10-01-2013 10:15 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 09:54 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  The House is doing what they were elected to do. Obamacare is very unpopular. So they did their best to stop it.

Now they will work out a plan sometime soon to get the govt. funded 100% again, and the Democrats will own Obamacare 100%. And as Obamacare continues to get worse and worse, the Democrats will have to defend it in upcoming elections.

Maybe the media will not ask the Democrats why certain companies and the DC elected officials and their staffers are given tax payer money so they can get out of Obamacare. But the voters will.

Surely we can have different opinions about what the people think, and whether the small group of people holding things up in the house represent the people or some narrower and more radical vision of america. If the people of the US are allowed to vote on something with accurate information, then generally, I think people would vote to have better health care in the US, like most industrial countries have, and not a system of health care that is only for the very rich. In fact, no one, even a feminist, should go bankrupt b/c of a health issues... even if the person may be of a "lower" class.

In essence, it seems that a better health care system would strengthen America and its businesses.

I am NOT sure if Obamacare does that exactly, but it has some additional protections for regular people. Now if we could lessen the influence of the drug and insurance companies in this equation about what the people want, then probably we would be talking true will of the people.

Certainly, opinions on this forum may vary... and even families are divided over this issue of affordability of healthcare in America. But that Obamacare legislation had already passed three years ago and been approved by the Supreme Ct, about a year ago, and, maybe those kinds of questions of modifying Obamacare should be a separate debate from shutting down the USA govt.? Opinions may vary.

A majority of people in the USA do not want Obamacare. It is far from a small group of radicals, it is the majority of the people.

I agree healthcare is a mess, but Obamacare is not a fix. In fact many think it was designed so badly so that it would fail and force socialist healthcare on the US citizens.

The govt. shut down is all just politics. In the long run it will force either the Democrats to cut some spending or all in all the Democrats will own the spending and Obamacare going into the 2014 elections.

(10-01-2013 10:15 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 09:54 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  The House is doing what they were elected to do. Obamacare is very unpopular. So they did their best to stop it.

Now they will work out a plan sometime soon to get the govt. funded 100% again, and the Democrats will own Obamacare 100%. And as Obamacare continues to get worse and worse, the Democrats will have to defend it in upcoming elections.

Maybe the media will not ask the Democrats why certain companies and the DC elected officials and their staffers are given tax payer money so they can get out of Obamacare. But the voters will.

I think people would vote to have better health care in the US, like most industrial countries have, and not a system of health care that is only for the very rich. In fact, no one, even a feminist, should go bankrupt b/c of a health issues... even if the person may be of a "lower" class.

In essence, it seems that a better health care system would strengthen America and its businesses.

Exactly. This Persian chick in SF who is a friend of an acquaintance of mine got struck by a hit and run driver while she was crossing the street. Dude hauled ass and has yet to be found. Unfortunately for her she was uninsured and has to come up with the six figure medical care expenses. In no other industrialized country would you hear of a story like that. Pretty embarrassing quite frankly.

(10-01-2013 12:53 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(09-30-2013 12:42 PM)bacon Wrote:  In 24 hours the news story will be how both parties saved the day and reached an agreement for more spending.

In 10 years the US will be on the level of developing countries in that it is too broke to pay for 90% of non essential workers and projects.

This shit can not go on forever.

I'll take you money on that bet with 2-1 odds in your favor.

Yer just talking shit.

The US is one of the most powerful, resilient economies in the world. Ready to put up some cash that the US personal income will remain far, far above current devoloping countries?

I expect resounding silence, or changing of the subject.

The US has put itself into massive debt. Currently just under 17 trillion dollars. BTW we added 11 trillion since 2000 so the trajectory of the government is to not slow down its spending so who knows how high it will be in after Obama leaves office.

The debt repayments are subject to interest rates which are artifically low. But what happens when those interest rates increase?

Its already happening

Quote:The interest rates on federal debt began climbing last month, jumping from 1.66 percent on a 10-year U.S. Treasury note at the start of May to a stunning 2.2 percent on Tuesday.

That 54-basis point increase looks small to the casual eye. But if it continues, the higher yield could increase by billions of dollars how much money the federal government spends to service the $16.7 trillion national debt.

Quote:The CBO projected in February that the government would spend $223 billion on net interest payments this year. That figure may now have to be revised upward by a few billion dollars if the average yield turns out to be higher than the CBO estimated

Quote:Every additional dollar devoted to servicing the debt gets subtracted from another government program—or adds to the yearly budget deficit.

Quote:Interest payments are expected to balloon from $223 billion this year to $823 billion in 2023, when the CBO estimates that 10-year notes will have a 5.2 percent interest rate.

So even if government is correct about future interest rates which suspect will be much higher you can see how much of the US budget will be going to servicing debt. This is why I believe that in 10 years the US will be on the level of developing countries in that it is too broke to pay for 90% of non essential workers and projects and that this can not go on forever.

(10-01-2013 10:28 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  The govt. shut down is all just politics. In the long run it will force either the Democrats to cut some spending or all in all the Democrats will own the spending and Obamacare going into the 2014 elections.

We would go back and forth, if we were to say what the people want b/c you seem to think that they do not want what has been deemed Obamacare.

Nonetheless, IIMT: how long do you predict that this shut down is going to last?

And, do you think that it is worth it to shut the govt down to prove some kind of point about needing to make cuts as being in the benefit of the American people?

Also, probably, this cut mentality is also going to screw the US economy, but maybe the cut mentality has so much momentum that both sides seem to think cutting is the way to prosperity... which I hope they do not screw things up too badly while cutting and the rich are attempting to rob regular people of social security, etc etc.

surely robbing has been going on for quite a while in the US and many societies.. and nothing new there... However, I would like the dollar and the system that is in place to maintain itself at least for the next 30 years while I go have fun banging girls into my old age in foreign lands. Are we gonna be able to have that with these ongoing shut downs, and such baloney?

Quote:Exactly. This Persian chick in SF who is a friend of an acquaintance of mine got struck by a hit and run driver while she was crossing the street. Dude hauled ass and has yet to be found. Unfortunately for her she was uninsured and has to come up with the six figure medical care expenses. In no other industrialized country would you hear of a story like that. Pretty embarrassing quite frankly.

I am sorry for your friend but she should have gotten a very affordable catastrophic insurance with a very high deductable for rare events like this and been fine financially. That is the insurance young and healthy people should have which prior to obamacare was very affordable for us since that demographic doesnt have high medical costs usually. Who knows how high that will be now since young healthy people will likely be subsidizing old, unheathy people with higher payments very month.

I want to see the trillion dollar coin get minted!

I heard the shutdown has been bought forward a couple of weeks - so that the fight would take place over a bill - and not the government debt itself.

(10-01-2013 10:38 AM)bacon Wrote:  So even if government is correct about future interest rates which suspect will be much higher you can see how much of the US budget will be going to servicing debt. This is why I believe that in 10 years the US will be on the level of developing countries in that it is too broke to pay for 90% of non essential workers and projects and that this can not go on forever.

So I only have 10 years to rely on the dollar and to bang girls in foreign lands by use of my income that will be coming in by dollars? I am gonna have to diversify, if that is the case.

(10-01-2013 10:48 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 10:28 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  The govt. shut down is all just politics. In the long run it will force either the Democrats to cut some spending or all in all the Democrats will own the spending and Obamacare going into the 2014 elections.

We would go back and forth, if we were to say what the people want b/c you seem to think that they do not want what has been deemed Obamacare.

Nonetheless, IIMT: how long do you predict that this shut down is going to last?

And, do you think that it is worth it to shut the govt down to prove some kind of point about needing to make cuts as being in the benefit of the American people?

Also, probably, this cut mentality is also going to screw the US economy, but maybe the cut mentality has so much momentum that both sides seem to think cutting is the way to prosperity... which I hope they do not screw things up too badly while cutting and the rich are attempting to rob regular people of social security, etc etc.

surely robbing has been going on for quite a while in the US and many societies.. and nothing new there... However, I would like the dollar and the system that is in place to maintain itself at least for the next 30 years while I go have fun banging girls into my old age in foreign lands. Are we gonna be able to have that with these ongoing shut downs, and such baloney?

There isn't a "back and forth" the polls out, right now, over and over show that the American people are strongly not in favor of Obamacare. It is just a very bad piece of legislation.

I would guess a week or so. Though it may last until the Oct. 17th deadline of dealing with extending the borrowing limit. It is all just politics.

That is one thing that I hope the American people realize, even if the liberal media doesn't point it out. The "govt. will be shut down" yet there will be little to no notice for a large % of Americans. Their day to day activities will not change by the shut down. So maybe the American people will start to realize how much waste our govt. really has and how much more they can cut.

With the out of control spending, especially since Obama has been president, I really don't know how much longer the US economy/$USD will remain strong. I have seen predictions that the bottom will fall out in 2016-2018. As Bacon posted, there are HUGE concerns for 2023.

Under Obama we borrow 41 cents of every $1 the US Federal Govt. spends. We simply cannot keep this up much longer.

(10-01-2013 10:49 AM)bacon Wrote:  I am sorry for your friend but she should have gotten a very affordable catastrophic insurance with a very high deductable for rare events like this and been fine financially. That is the insurance young and healthy people should have which prior to obamacare was very affordable for us since that demographic doesnt have high medical costs usually. Who knows how high that will be now since young healthy people will likely be subsidizing old, unheathy people with higher payments very month.

Bacon: I am all for personal responsibility; however, it seems like we should not get caught up in this blame the victim cycle of he should have done this and she should have done that. In essence, basic things, such as unexpected accidents should just be covered. The USA is amongst the richest countries in the world but regular and poor people, including many people's grandmas are suffering incredibly by this screwed up healthcare system that sucks out money and is inefficient and is only going to the drug companies and insurance companies, rather than to providing health care.

But Obamacare will not fix that. It's just another money sink that will bankrupt this country.

And if you pay more money for better health insurance, you deserve to get better treatment. Otherwise, what's the point?

(10-01-2013 10:49 AM)bacon Wrote:  

Quote:Exactly. This Persian chick in SF who is a friend of an acquaintance of mine got struck by a hit and run driver while she was crossing the street. Dude hauled ass and has yet to be found. Unfortunately for her she was uninsured and has to come up with the six figure medical care expenses. In no other industrialized country would you hear of a story like that. Pretty embarrassing quite frankly.

I am sorry for your friend but she should have gotten a very affordable catastrophic insurance with a very high deductable for rare events like this and been fine financially. That is the insurance young and healthy people should have which prior to obamacare was very affordable for us since that demographic doesnt have high medical costs usually. Who knows how high that will be now since young healthy people will likely be subsidizing old, unheathy people with higher payments very month.

The scenario you're talking about where many old or unhealthy people sign up faster than young and healthy people is otherwise known in the industry as a "death spiral."

This is something the designers of the Affordable Care Act considered beforehand. That's why there will be a financial penalty imposed on those who choose not to have health care.

One key challenge is getting the word out to the public that people can now sign up for health care which ironically is being partly addressed by this high profile government shutdown.

It's hard to tell what exactly will end up happening but one thing we know for sure is that the status quo is simply unacceptable. No one should go bankrupt for illnesses that are outside of their control. Too many Americans are seeing their financial well-being and families being wrecked due to this failure of a system - unique among developed nations.

Also, no matter your ideology, the renegade faction of the Republican party is certainly to blame for this shutdown. The Affordable Care Act is the law of the land and is already in effect. It passed both houses of Congress during Obama's first term, survived a constitutional challenge at the Supreme Court, and was again validated by Obama's reelection. To now have a debate about its merits as a condition of passing an unrelated budget resolution for spending already approved by the House is yet another stark reminder that the Republican party is being held hostage by an infantile mob of sociopaths. This will no doubt come back to bite them come 2016.

(10-01-2013 10:58 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(10-01-2013 10:49 AM)bacon Wrote:  I am sorry for your friend but she should have gotten a very affordable catastrophic insurance with a very high deductable for rare events like this and been fine financially. That is the insurance young and healthy people should have which prior to obamacare was very affordable for us since that demographic doesnt have high medical costs usually. Who knows how high that will be now since young healthy people will likely be subsidizing old, unheathy people with higher payments very month.

Bacon: I am all for personal responsibility; however, it seems like we should not get caught up in this blame the victim cycle of he should have done this and she should have done that. In essence, basic things, such as unexpected accidents should just be covered. The USA is amongst the richest countries in the world but regular and poor people, including many people's grandmas are suffering incredibly by this screwed up healthcare system that sucks out money and is inefficient and is only going to the drug companies and insurance companies, rather than to providing health care.

Look anyone can get into an accident at any age which is what happened to this girl. Obviously she didnt think she needed insurance since she was young and healthy well now she is fucked. She made a bad decision for not getting some 50 dollar a month high deductable plan so while I feel sorry that she was in an accident I dont feel sorry for her not thinking ahead and getting some insurance.

I do not agree that the US is a rich country simply because it has a high GDP that was once true but not anymore if you factor in the growing 17 trillion debt. This is why I do not understand this notion of people saying we are a rich country we deserve free healthcare. The young, poor and old already get free healthcare from the government but this is not enough?

Look if I was some obese diabetic I would be loving Obamacare since I stand to benefit. But I am not, I am young and healthy and now I have to pay higher insurance to susidize people like that.

(10-01-2013 10:56 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  There isn't a "back and forth" the polls out, right now, over and over show that the American people are strongly not in favor of Obamacare. It is just a very bad piece of legislation.

If you have polls then you should cite where those polls are from and what was the question. You are making me have to repeat in some sense. There was already a vote and Obama care was passed as legislation, and this is better said by HC:

(10-01-2013 11:20 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Also, no matter your ideology, the renegade faction of the Republican party is certainly to blame for this shutdown. The Affordable Care Act is the law of the land and is already in effect. It passed both houses of Congress during Obama's first term, survived a constitutional challenge at the Supreme Court, and was again validated by Obama's reelection. To now have a debate about its merits as a condition of passing an unrelated budget resolution for spending already approved by the House is yet another stark reminder that the Republican party is being held hostage by an infantile mob of sociopaths. This will no doubt come back to bite them come 2016.

(10-01-2013 10:56 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  I would guess a week or so. Though it may last until the Oct. 17th deadline of dealing with extending the borrowing limit. It is all just politics.

About politics, mumbo jumbo. A week or two of shut down would be more than just it is all about politics.. A week or two of shut down would have major impacts on the US people and the world perceptions of the US.

(10-01-2013 10:56 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  That is one thing that I hope the American people realize, even if the liberal media doesn't point it out.

You are using buzz word which appear like you are not really thinking this through and you are just throwing out talking points about "liberal media".. Generally, the media is not liberal.. they use those kinds of buzz words on Fox news that the media is liberal... Also, earlier you used the term socialist health care or something. These ideas are not really thought through but instead are inflammatory buzz words that stifle meaningful communications about these kinds of important topics.

(10-01-2013 10:56 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  The "govt. will be shut down" yet there will be little to no notice for a large % of Americans. Their day to day activities will not change by the shut down. So maybe the American people will start to realize how much waste our govt. really has and how much more they can cut.

That message about the govt does not do anything to help you would be a message that the anti-government segments including the radical tea party supporters would like to be the take home message. Maybe you would be correct that having the government shut down for two weeks would not be missed? but I seem to doubt it, and the govt serves people, and those people vote.

(10-01-2013 10:56 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  With the out of control spending, especially since Obama has been president, I really don't know how much longer the US economy/$USD will remain strong. I have seen predictions that the bottom will fall out in 2016-2018. As Bacon posted, there are HUGE concerns for 2023.

Under Obama we borrow 41 cents of every $1 the US Federal Govt. spends. We simply cannot keep this up much longer.

I do not claim to be any pro or anti-Obama;however, your explanation seems to be quite short-sighted and attempting to suggest that Obama is the only politician who has caused the US Govt to spend money over the years. And, why debate about that while under the barrel of a metaphoric gun?

The US government has plenty of money, and the fact that the US govt has been throwing trillions at the banks shows that the US has plenty of money and should have plenty of money to maintain various social programs and services that are essential to government that private sector will not provide so we can live in a civilized society rather than merely having rich people with luxuries and no more american middle class.... do we want to live in a banana republic? I would prefer not to at least during my lifetime. Anyhow the whole situation seems to be a mess, and your comments seem to make the description of the mess more confusing rather than less confusing.

(10-01-2013 11:30 AM)bacon Wrote:  Look if I was some obese diabetic I would be loving Obamacare since I stand to benefit. But I am not, I am young and healthy and now I have to pay higher insurance to susidize people like that.

Sometimes when we are thinking about what is good for society, we have to think beyond just ourselves in the short-term. Industrialized societies should provide basics, such as medical coverage, and yes, some of us have different opinions about this. Medical care and coverage is not just personal responsibility... it's a social good that would probably also be good for US business to have a medical infrastructure in place that generally covers all people.

Basic for everyone and, yes the rich can still buy extra bonuses (if we care about that)

OH... and BTW Bacon.. .aren't you living in Mexico? Isn't it a sad state of affairs that many Americans feel that they have to travel to Mexico to get better health care? and prescriptions? We should not have to do that. We should be able to get our medial care in the USA.

Republican mentality:

Spend money on corporate subsidies (welfare) and wars: good

Spend money on education and health: bad


Wars and corporate welfare won't increase our success.....investing in people will. I fail to see where the media is liberal, the biggest media outlets are Fox and WSJ. If obamacare were unpopular, he would have not been reelected.

Many gov't employees are getting screwed by not getting paid (teachers, museums), while those in defense or security are still getting their paychecks. On the other hand, I'm happy that defense contractors are not getting paid.

(10-01-2013 11:44 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  Republican mentality:

Spend money on corporate subsidies (welfare) and wars: good

Spend money on education and health: bad


Wars and corporate welfare won't increase our success.....investing in people will. I fail to see where the media is liberal, the biggest media outlets are Fox and WSJ. If obamacare were unpopular, he would have not been reelected.

Many gov't employees are getting screwed by not getting paid (teachers, museums), while those in defense or security are still getting their paychecks. On the other hand, I'm happy that defense contractors are not getting paid.

Spending more money on ANYTHING is often a mistake when it comes to govt. spending because the govt. is so inefficient. We spend more per capita now than ever before on education and there are no results for it. Teacher unions gobbling it up, and computers doing little to add to a system where parents do not support the school and instead let their kids run wild at home.

The biggest media is the main stream media (CBS, NBC, ABC and they are liberal). To the point they don't even try to hide it at times.

Obamacare is very unpopular, but there are many uniformed voters.

You can choose your news source and time...

https://www.google.com/#q=obamacare+appr...ing+gallup

JayJuan, it would be hard for me to discuss economics with you, being you don't understand how the bond market works.

Obama spent trillions on green energy and other Democratic pet projects. We got nothing in return. If you read up about how the bond markets work you will realize the USA does not have anywhere near enough money and our time is about to run out.

(09-30-2013 12:42 PM)bacon Wrote:  In 10 years the US will be on the level of developing countries in that it is too broke to pay for 90% of non essential workers and projects.

Either that or we default.

(10-01-2013 12:08 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  JayJuan, it would be hard for me to discuss economics with you, being you don't understand how the bond market works.

Obama spent trillions on green energy and other Democratic pet projects. We got nothing in return. If you read up about how the bond markets work you will realize the USA does not have anywhere near enough money and our time is about to run out.

Politicians are making that last stab for cash. When the U.S. is in a civil war they'll be sitting in a chateau in France sipping brandy and laughing. The 1% will have safe passage. Normal citizens won't be allowed to leave, and those abroad forced back to suffer. Why do you think so many now are renouncing citizenship? We've been duped.