Post: #1

Hey there gents, I need some advice.

I'm a little worried about my lack of sympathy and empathy. When it comes to people telling me bad news about themselves such as i'm depressed! My love life is ruined! etc etc etc. I don't feel the need or desire to help them feel better (empathy/sympathy).

Before I had the patience to work out their problems through the feelings as in make them feel good and then lead them to water.

For an example, lets say someone goes, "I'm depressed."
My response, "I feel for ya but you need to do x,y,and z to overcome your depression. Depression is stagnation and that is why you feel adrift. If you have no control over your life, at least get control over your body."
.
Nowadays, i don't give a crap about feelings and force the point to water. Ironically, it's helped in a lot of instances, but in other times people just want to vent. But venting is annoyingly toxic to me and I don't like hearing it.

Problems are to be solved and surmounted, not dwell on for days on end.

Is this a good path to take? What do you guys think?

Post: #2

No, you have to empathetic and sympathetic.

If someone tells you they're depressed don't tell them they need to overcome it. Find out why they're depressed and share in their misery. That makes them feel a lot better, then you can tell a story how something similar happened to you and you overcame it later on.

Put yourself in their shoes. If you're parents died in a car crash, who would you look to for friendship? The person who says to you, "pick yourself up by your bootstraps boy, overcome it." or the person who says to you, "Oh that's really terrible, I can imagine how you feel...come here let's hug it out you need a hug."

This is how you make & keep friends. It's also a sign of social saviness and maturity.

Post: #3

If we're talking about women, they just want to vent. They don't want you to "fix" it. They want you to endure the chaotic hurricaine of their emotions.

If you really, truly want to help someone with their problems, the best approach is to not give them any answers, but instead to ask them questions. Asking questions, forces them to dig deeper and think for themselves, see themselves, which can lead to real transformation.

So if you are interested in truly helping someone you're response shouldn't be: "You need to do, xyz"

It should be:

"Why are you depressed?"
"Why do you think that's happening?
"How do you think it could be changed?"
"What do you think would happen then?"
"Do you think so and so may be concerned about this and that?" "Why not?" "Why?"

Every answer they give you should be followed up with a question that either clarifies or digs deeper into the answer they just gave you.

Careful though, not many people can handle quesionting that goes 3 levels deep. Upon the first question you ask they will be annoyed at you for even asking, after the second level they will hate you, after the thrid level they will want to kill you. So when you sense them getting agitated, it's best to back off, though they will usually drop the subject after the 1st or 2nd level anyways.

Doing this though requires an ability to be present to others and their emotions. This appears to be difficult for you which is why you just want to fix it so the chaos goes away.

Another option is instead of asking questions, just be present to them. That's often the therapy they are looking for and can do a lot of good in and of itself. It's not easy and is very draining to be truly present to someone, but it's a good skill to have and others can tell when you are and they appreciate it.

Post: #4

Hey frenchie how you doing pal? ME not so well man, I'm just kind of sad and in a rut... I thought maybe I would join the Roosh fourms and find some friends an comfort here... and you seem like just the guy to talk to.

Post: #5

I don't have empathy either, also people only want to hear that they want to hear.

Post: #6

I'm the same mate, I'm actually pretty harsh and straight to the point. I'm always wary of the friend zone!

the questions Ono posted above are correct. One of my last bangs told me she was stressed, I just asked her why etc

Post: #7

When people around me need empathy, I usually feel like Dexter, like I'm reading a script. But I do the best I can. I try to give them room to talk, and keep my own mouth shot. I know from my own trials, especially over the last year with a divorce, sometimes just having someone to talk to can help. And no matter how good your advice sounds, or even works, sometimes they're just not emotionally ready for it.

But it depends on the person. I try to avoid the kind of people who just want somebody to whine to, or the attention whores. I had one of those latch onto me a couple years ago. I had to start ignoring calls from that person.

Post: #8

(09-11-2013 07:51 AM)Pyre Wrote:  No, you have to empathetic and sympathetic.

If someone tells you they're depressed don't tell them they need to overcome it. Find out why they're depressed and share in their misery. That makes them feel a lot better, then you can tell a story how something similar happened to you and you overcame it later on.

Put yourself in their shoes. If you're parents died in a car crash, who would you look to for friendship? The person who says to you, "pick yourself up by your bootstraps boy, overcome it." or the person who says to you, "Oh that's really terrible, I can imagine how you feel...come here let's hug it out you need a hug."

This is how you make & keep friends. It's also a sign of social saviness and maturity.

I agree, hence why see it as important. The trick is, for me to actually care and share in the misery, I feel miserable. It sucks me dry and I can't do this often. Ironically, people come to me ALL of the time with this stuff. I get the impression i'm my friend circle's shrink.

(09-11-2013 08:04 AM)Onto Wrote:  If we're talking about women, they just want to vent. They don't want you to "fix" it. They want you to endure the chaotic hurricaine of their emotions.

If you really, truly want to help someone with their problems, the best approach is to not give them any answers, but instead to ask them questions. Asking questions, forces them to dig deeper and think for themselves, see themselves, which can lead to real transformation.

So if you are interested in truly helping someone you're response shouldn't be: "You need to do, xyz"

It should be:

"Why are you depressed?"
"Why do you think that's happening?
"How do you think it could be changed?"
"What do you think would happen then?"
"Do you think so and so may be concerned about this and that?" "Why not?" "Why?"

Every answer they give you should be followed up with a question that either clarifies or digs deeper into the answer they just gave you.

Careful though, not many people can handle quesionting that goes 3 levels deep. Upon the first question you ask they will be annoyed at you for even asking, after the second level they will hate you, after the thrid level they will want to kill you. So when you sense them getting agitated, it's best to back off, though they will usually drop the subject after the 1st or 2nd level anyways.

Doing this though requires an ability to be present to others and their emotions. This appears to be difficult for you which is why you just want to fix it so the chaos goes away.

Another option is instead of asking questions, just be present to them. That's often the therapy they are looking for and can do a lot of good in and of itself. It's not easy and is very draining to be truly present to someone, but it's a good skill to have and others can tell when you are and they appreciate it.

This is what I normally do, mixed in with actually trying to care. Once it gets past layer 3 the stuff real attitudes begin to show through.

For the most part, there aren't any real over hanging issues in my life. I don't like troubling other people with my problems. People don't give me good advice anyway and I seem to know how to pull myself out of any hole.

I'll have to work on being better at being present. Thanks for the advice gents. This forum is a godsend.

(09-11-2013 09:58 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  Hey frenchie how you doing pal? ME not so well man, I'm just kind of sad and in a rut... I thought maybe I would join the Roosh fourms and find some friends an comfort here... and you seem like just the guy to talk to.

Why pay for a shrink when I have you guys?

Post: #9

Side of effect of the red pill.

Post: #10

There are two issues here.

1. Having empathy
2. Trying to solve other people's problems

You can be empathetic while also not making other people's problems your own.

In my experience most people don't really want advice. They're gonna do whatever they wanna do. I just listen, empathize, and tell them "well, good luck with that."

Post: #11

(09-11-2013 08:04 AM)Onto Wrote:  Careful though, not many people can handle quesionting that goes 3 levels deep. Upon the first question you ask they will be annoyed at you for even asking, after the second level they will hate you, after the thrid level they will want to kill you. So when you sense them getting agitated, it's best to back off, though they will usually drop the subject after the 1st or 2nd level anyways.

Most people simply aren't capable of realistically-working through their problems in a rational, logical manner, which is why they have problems to begin with.

They'll react with anger and discomfort if you force them to confront repressed and frustrated desires (Freudian Theory), or anger and discomfort is they become aware their self-perception doesn't match their reality (Cognitive Dissonance Theory, or Hamsterisation).

Realistically, most people don't want answers, or guidance, just simply someone to bitch at. You have every right to not be used as an emotional dumping ground for people who don't want to be actually be helped. They'll suck away energy and drive you could be using on your own tasks. You're not lacking empathy or sympathy, you're simply realising damaged people are damaged beyond your capacity to help.

Fuck them, utterly.

Post: #12

Empathize enough to show you understand, then after that gradually shift to pointing out it doesn't work to complain to someone who can't fix something.

Usually people are complaining about what other people do/don't do-- the cops did this to me, this chick did that to me, etc.

I find people usually respond well if you gently point out they need to stop running red lights, stop meeting girls in bars and expecting them to be reliable, etc.

Post: #13

Im quite selfish and self centred so find it quitehard to empathize with people about their problems because most of the time I don't care about their minor first world problems I do make an exception for family and close friends though.

Post: #14

Here is a relevant passage from Boswell's Life of Johnson (link here):

Quote:[While Johnson and Boswell were away, they heard of the death of the son of the Thrales, who were good friends of Johsnon's...] I saw male succession strong in his mind, even where there was no name, no family of any long standing. I said, it was lucky he was not present when this misfortune happened. Johnson: "It was lucky for me. People in distress never think that you feel enough." Boswell: "And, Sir, they will have the hope of seeing you, which will be a relief in the mean time; and when you get to them, the pain will be so far abated, that they will be capable of being consoled by you, which in the first violence of it, I believe, would not be the case." Johnson: "No, Sir; violent pain of mind, like violent pain of body, must be severely felt." Boswell: "I own, Sir, I have not so much feeling for the distress of others, as some people have, or pretend to have: but I know this, that I would do all in my power to relieve them." Johnson: "Sir, it is affectation to pretend to feel the distress of others, as much as they do themselves. It is equally so, as if one should pretend to feel as much pain while a friend's leg is cutting off, as he does. No, Sir; you have expressed the rational and just nature of sympathy. I would have gone to the extremity of the earth to have preserved this boy."

The obsession with empathy is part of the general cant of this time. The truth is that people will often enough feel sympathy with the sufferings of those close to them, and very occasionally with the sufferings of those not particularly close to them. The degree and extent of it depends on one's personality, age, experience, and a multitude of other accidents such as the state of one's digestion at the time. It is useless to try to invoke such feelings; they will either occur or they won't.

If someone close to you is in distress, help them; if you wish, and if their distress warrants it, go to the extremity of the earth to help them. Don't worry about what you feel for them one way or another.

Post: #15

I have empathy for children and animals. I feel for my bros when they are hurting.

I find myself having little to zero empathy for women.