Post: #1

Some would say they are all necessary to keep us safe. I cant even drink a beer while walking down a sidewalk. Discuss...

Post: #2

Yes. Shit happens in life and we're attempting to legislate out "shit happening", which just makes doing anything in day-to-day life cumbersome. But what can you expect? The world pop. is booming and there is a greater strain on resources now more than ever. Laws are used to "tighten the noose" so to speak on the average world denizen.

Post: #3

Apart from the laws that are common to all societies, namely murder, rape, theft (crimes against people and property) then laws are mainly about trying to enforce a society's moral code.

You say "Does America have to many laws?" I say, "Which part of America?"

I'm reading a great book titled, American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America

Quote:According to award-winning journalist and historian Colin Woodard, North America is made up of eleven distinct nations, each with its own unique historical roots....

From the Deep South to the Far West, to Yankeedom to El Norte, Woodard reveals how each region continues to uphold its distinguishing ideals and identities today, with results that can be seen in the composition of the U.S. Congress or on the county-by-county election maps of presidential elections.

So which America?

Personally, nationwide I think America has too many laws restricting personal freedoms. I also think that many laws created in Congress are to support the illusion that every American has an equal opportunity at achieving the "American Dream."

Post: #4

Yes. Absolutely no question.

Historically,one of the tools that authoritarian governments use to keep control is making all sorts of things illegal and then selectively prosecuting people based on where they stand with the preorder in power. That way, everyone is always guilty of something. Also, by criminalizing and over-regulating everything, you create gray and black markets in special favors and dispensations.

I'm not one of those people who believe that America is anywhere near totalitarianism or that there secret powers controlling everything from behind the scenes. Rather, what we have is mosty a function of bureaucracy and paternalism run wild. Everytime something bad happens people demand action and politicians have to be seen to be doing something. The reason we have so many damn laws is that we have so many damn people who want to criminalize behavior with which they disagree.

Post: #5

(09-01-2013 10:42 PM)j r Wrote:  The reason we have so many damn laws is that we have so many damn people who want to criminalize behavior with which they disagree.

Welcome to diversity.

Post: #6

Yes of course.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscar...y_laws.php

NYC has a law against dancing. "The law states that a business must have a cabaret license if, "three or more people are found dancing" in the establishment."

Post: #7

We have too many laws that restrict our personal freedoms, when we compare ourselves with Europe and Japan. We're treated like errant schoolchildren in this country, like lost sheep who can't handle any responsibility. Minors can't drink. Soft drugs are not legal in most places. Puritanical prohibitions on prostitution and pornography. A police presence nearly everywhere you go. And it goes on and on. And at the same time, we're crushed under bureaucracy for nearly everything: work, dealing with the government, health care, etc.
It's probably going to get worse. As the social fabric unravels in the years ahead, due to decades of erosion of the family and other social institutions that kept society together, the government is going to take on more and more of the role of "parent" in order to try to prevent chaos from breaking out. So, look for more authoritarianism on the horizon.

Post: #8

It's not just that we have too many laws, it's that we're able to enforce those laws, unlike many countries.

Most countries don't have the money to enforce most of their laws, so people get around in a state of increased freedom.

Yes, america has WAY too many laws. The point of this country is to squeeze out as much labor from its wage slave work force. Most countries allow drinking all night, don't care about people drinking at a young age, they are much more lax about many things.

We aren't free in america, nor do we have democracy. This is part of our propaganda that people accept, "well, at least we're free and have democracy".

No. Our government is about to embark on a war that the entire population is against, and a war that has no justification.

Post: #9

Yes.

The law is but a means, and should be shaved to the bare minimum necessary to have fair dealings between people in society, and to right wrongs. A law that is superfluous is often worse than the absence of law where it is needed.

Post: #10

What do you expect from a country founded by people kicked out of England for been too uptight?

Post: #11

Of course we have too many laws. When you develop a government bureaucracy like we have, it grows like an out of control cancer until it reaches some hard limit. Alternatively, I like the Taoist attitude toward governance, expressed in a few verses of the Tao Te Ching (Mitchell translation):

17.
When the Master governs, the people
are hardly aware that he exists.
Next best is a leader who is loved.
Next, one who is feared.
The worst is one who is despised.

If you don't trust the people,
you make them untrustworthy.

The Master doesn't talk, he acts.
When his work is done,
the people say, "Amazing:
we did it, all by ourselves!"

30.
Whoever relies on the Tao in governing men
doesn't try to force issues
or defeat enemies by force of arms.
For every force there is a counterforce.
Violence, even well intentioned,
always rebounds upon oneself.

The Master does his job
and then stops.
He understands that the universe
is forever out of control,
and that trying to dominate events
goes against the current of the Tao.
Because he believes in himself,
he doesn't try to convince others.
Because he is content with himself,
he doesn't need others' approval.
Because he accepts himself,
the whole world accepts him.

57.
If you want to be a great leader,
you must learn to follow the Tao.
Stop trying to control.
Let go of fixed plans and concepts,
and the world will govern itself.

The more prohibitions you have,
the less virtuous people will be.
The more weapons you have,
the less secure people will be.
The more subsidies you have,
the less self-reliant people will be.

Therefore the Master says:
I let go of the law,
and people become honest.
I let go of economics,
and people become prosperous.
I let go of religion,
and people become serene.
I let go of all desire for the common good,
and the good becomes common as grass.

60.
Governing a large country
is like frying a small fish.
You spoil it with too much poking.

Center your country in the Tao
and evil will have no power.
Not that it isn't there,
but you'll be able to step out of its way.

Give evil nothing to oppose
and it will disappear by itself.

75.
When taxes are too high,
people go hungry.
When the government is too intrusive,
people lose their spirit.

Act for the people's benefit.
Trust them; leave them alone.

Post: #12

MUST READ:

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/06/why...veillance/

For instance, did you know that it is a federal crime to be in possession of a lobster under a certain size? It doesn’t matter if you bought it at a grocery store, if someone else gave it to you, if it’s dead or alive, if you found it after it died of natural causes, or even if you killed it while acting in self defense. You will probably go to jail because of a lobster.

The federal government has access to every email you’ve ever written and every phone call you’ve ever made, it’s almost certain that they will find something you’ve done which violates a provision in the 27,000 pages of federal statues or 10,000 administrative regulations.

You probably do have something to hide, you just don’t know it yet.

Post: #13

While I will agree that the USA has too many laws...IT IS NEEDED! In many other countries, their "non-USA freedoms" do not affect others. Americans have YET TO PROVE that they can handle freedoms without harming/affecting others.

Post: #14

I think a good law would be, "We will abolish 100 laws every year."

Instead of getting laws off of the books, which is important, officials simply choose which ones are deserving of enforcement, and which are not.

Post: #15

(09-02-2013 11:36 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  While I will agree that the USA has too many laws...IT IS NEEDED! In many other countries, their "non-USA freedoms" do not affect others. Americans have YET TO PROVE that they can handle freedoms without harming/affecting others.

Bullshit. I prove it everyday.

Most laws have nothing to do with harming others and everything to do with some special interest ensuring themselves a cash flow.

Post: #16

(09-02-2013 11:47 AM)j r Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 11:36 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  While I will agree that the USA has too many laws...IT IS NEEDED! In many other countries, their "non-USA freedoms" do not affect others. Americans have YET TO PROVE that they can handle freedoms without harming/affecting others.

Bullshit. I prove it everyday.

Most laws have nothing to do with harming others and everything to do with some special interest ensuring themselves a cash flow.

YOU may prove it, but not enough folks prove it to keep the laws from being made.

Post: #17

Just pour that beer in a red cup Houston.

I just realized how Gay it is that we even would need to do that to enjoy a beer and a walk.

Post: #18

All the "self-protective" laws are bullshit the states/union use to collect money. Self-protective as in, we're going to fine or arrest you for not looking out for yourself (e.g. seat belts, minute traffic violations).

Post: #19

(09-02-2013 12:29 PM)baristabanger Wrote:  All the "self-protective" laws are bullshit the states/union use to collect money. Self-protective as in, we're going to fine or arrest you for not looking out for yourself (e.g. seat belts, minute traffic violations).

Not looking out for yourself MAY increase my car insurance rate in my area. I want laws in place so that fool who wants to weave in-and-out of lanes at 60mph (in a 35 mph zone)...only to be looking at me at the next red light will pay more in insurance or get threatened to lose their license.

Those of us who PLAN our day should not be affected (near crashes, etc) by those who live by the seat of their pants.

Post: #20

Not that i disagree about much of whats being discussed but it would be nice to have some specific examples. For instance what can someone in Berlin do legally that would be illegal in Houston,TX?

Off the top of my head, the only major differences i would think of are prostitution and alcohol laws. Am i missing something?

Prostitution in the US has been written about extensively in another thread and on Return of kings so i will leave that one alone.

As far as alcohol is concerned, yes the legal age in the states is 21. In approx. 90% of the world 18 yr olds have unrestricted access to alcohol. But in approx. 90% of the world an 18 or even 21 yr old private citizen would never be able to carry a firearm legally.

My point being freedom is relative based on the culture. In addition we live in one of the most car-centric socities on earth. If tomorrow we adopted euro style drinking laws, i.e. no last calls and let 18 year old legally purchase alcohol we would see huge spike in crime and accidents guaranteed.

Post: #21

Great video post about the amount of laws we have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7n...nomobile=1

He mentions that even the people who write and manage the US Code don't know how many laws are on the books.

Post: #22

Let me say this about America's drinking laws....

Either the drinking age should be LOWERED to 18 or the age to join the military should be RAISED to 21. Personally, anyone who can dodge missiles, land mines and hand grenades should be able to get a damn drink in the country that they defend.

Post: #23

(09-02-2013 05:40 PM)azulsombra Wrote:  My point being freedom is relative based on the culture. In addition we live in one of the most car-centric socities on earth. If tomorrow we adopted euro style drinking laws, i.e. no last calls and let 18 year old legally purchase alcohol we would see huge spike in crime and accidents guaranteed.

There's no evidence to verify that. Instead of allowing people to drink all night, we cut the night short. What happens to all those drunk people at 2am? Think they're all taking cabs?

If we had no last call, drunk driving could just as likely decrease.

If you take a look at the history of last call, you'll realize its more of a vestige of prohibition than a sensible, statistics driven policy. Same thing with drinking age.

Post: #24

(09-02-2013 06:01 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 05:40 PM)azulsombra Wrote:  My point being freedom is relative based on the culture. In addition we live in one of the most car-centric socities on earth. If tomorrow we adopted euro style drinking laws, i.e. no last calls and let 18 year old legally purchase alcohol we would see huge spike in crime and accidents guaranteed.

There's no evidence to verify that. Instead of allowing people to drink all night, we cut the night short. What happens to all those drunk people at 2am? Think they're all taking cabs?

Obviously people drink and drive now, no one is arguing that. I stated that if we had no last calls 18yrs couldnt handle it, you misread what i wrote.

If we had no last call, drunk driving could just as likely decrease.

Are you joking? More inexperienced drivers (under 21, the MOST likely to cause accidents, and yes insurance and highway statistics back this up) driving drunk would absolutely not cause a decrease in accidents, this is just common sense.

If you take a look at the history of last call, you'll realize its more of a vestige of prohibition than a sensible, statistics driven policy. Same thing with drinking age.


Agreed, prohibition was the primary driver of alcohol control laws in this country, whether right or wrong the imposition of prohibition reflected the will of the American people at the time and that legacy still lingers. But as I stated previously to change those laws tomorrow and say to a high school student, on your birthday you can now legally carry a concealed weapon and consume alcohol publicly 24hrs a day is a recipe for disaster. Knowing how spoiled and narcisistic the average 17 yr old American is in 2013 do you honestly think most will be ready for that responsiblity when their birthdays come? Have you not seen how they behave on Spring Break?

Post: #25

Man, this is a really general question.

A better one might be, "Does America have the right laws?"