Post: #1

Do you think Americans put cops and military veterans on a huge pedestal? Is it unnecessary or deserved?

Post: #2

Definitely yes.

It can be for a variety of reasons. The most common are "to serve and protect" patriotism, etc.


My own feelings? I don't really hold cops to any special regard. I treat them pretty normally without any attitude. Don't let them intimidate you. If you can hold your own they'll bug off.

I support the troops even though they're part of the powerful hand of our corporate masters. They're there for a reason and do an important job. I just wish they were not seen as expendable assets.

Post: #3

Yes and it's not even debatable.

Post: #4

They are given automatic hero status, so yes.

Post: #5

Yeah we do. They put in 20 years and get a pension of 50% of their usual pay plus benefits. That's what they're motivated by. Not some deep inner respect for the law or honor or some other bullshit.

I get letters in the mail asking for money for the PBA. I'm like ...motherfucker you make more than I do plus you get a pension. Fuck you!!

And what about the plastic shields people have in the back window? PBA cards? Why should people get special privilege just because they know a cop? Bullshit.

There was a cop in Lakewood, NJ that got shot and killed by some 19 year old hoodrat. The whole state pretty much got locked down instantly. Every local and state cop was out looking for this kid. It was a ridiculous display of force. Same thing on the day of the funeral. You couldn't get anywhere. If a civilian got killed you'd never see any of that. Shit it happens everyday.

Post: #6

People romanticize "putting you life on the line"

The truth is that there are many other professions that are a just as valuable.

All these work together make society happen.

Anyone watch Serpico?

Post: #7

America has become an authoritarian state under the guise of becoming a "safe" society.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Name your despotic, totalitarian oppressive regime (Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia, Iran) non have as many people in lockup. We are, by definition, not the pillar of freedom that we claim to be.

The change came at the end of the civil rights movement. Up until then every generation had become more free than the one that preceded it. Since that time (1968-1972) each generation has seen it's rights and freedoms curtailed by everything from nuisance legislation like smoking bans and helmet laws, to truly dangerous and disastrous police state policies like the drug war, gun control and date/statutory rape legislation.

The citizenry, fed a steady diet of sensationalist "news" and pro-authoritarian cop and court dramas has come to believe the Orwellian mythos that slavery is freedom. That safety is more valuable than liberty. As a result, the "keepers of the faith" the men and women who "stand the line" in uniform become lionized. As a wartime prior service member myself I am given much praise from people when I wear my Army logo apparel even after I inform them that while I served overseas I was never deployed to a combat zone.

People want to believe in heroes, most of our American mythology is based on the idea of good defeating evil. However the rise of the feminist ideal of a "secure" sanitized society combined with the rise of both the action news format in the 1970s and the 24 hour news cycle in the 1990s gives you this unholy marriage between the need to feel safe and the incidence of constantly having the shit scared out of people by the television. TV dramas and politicians add in the self righteous moralizing about the aforementioned social crimes and you have a recipe disaster: the State as God, and it's agents (in uniform) as Holy Men.

Post: #8

Another vote for yes, for all of the reasons cited above. Firefighters too, maybe more so.

Post: #9

On the conception of the police state and the surrendering of liberties for 'security'

'Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master' -

Gaius Sallustius Crispus (86 – 34 BC) was a statesman and historian during the last century of the Roman Republic.

I believe most people simply aren't strong enough to desire true liberty. Most men, and all women want to follow an alpha just as wolves in the wolfpack will follow the alpha wolf.

Post: #10

Yep, though I support the pedestal treatment of military veterans but not cops.

Post: #11

Any po-po on this forum?

Post: #12

Not so much where I live. Our local finest get in almost as much trouble as our local criminals. Most of us don't take them seriously. One got busted for a second rape charge last week, a other caught on film trashing a homeless guys bike another trafficking oxys and doctor shopping.

Any good lawyer can and does clown them in court

Post: #13

(08-03-2013 11:41 PM)houston Wrote:  Do you think Americans put cops and military veterans on a huge pedestal? Is it unnecessary or deserved?

Yes, and it should be debatable.

They can get away with murder (cops) and rape (military), civilians get thrown in the hole and the keys are thrown away. The former group should get the same treatment.

People usually bitch about "rampant government spending" but hand blank checks to people in this group. "Need $15 Billion to an over budget jet program? Here's 20!" part of the problem are politicians wanting projects in their state. The Army says they don't need new thanks, but congress just bought 1500 more of them.
"Teachers need 500 million for X? Fuck you, you overly compensated gubbmint moocher."

As I say, "you signed up for it, you didn't get drafted so don't expect any special treatment from me".

Post: #14

I respect the gun. For better or worse, I have little experience with cops because my city chooses to have presence in the tourist part of town rather than the residential. But I can tell you that they're on another level here, 2 police sergeants are now being investigated for armed robbery. http://www.freep.com/article/20130729/NE...s-arrested

Post: #15

Women voting only exacerbates the movement towards total 'security'. They will almost always choose big daddy gov't to look over them (i.e. buy me birth control) at the cost of freedom. But as mentioned above, many guys will choose this route too sadly.

Post: #16

If you have any emotion other than hating the police then you're wrong.

Post: #17

The worst part is that internal affairs in most departments is a joke. So if the cops do actually get caught doing something wrong or someone files a complaint about them, they usually only get a slap on the wrist. A lot of the things police do that would land a civilian in jail earn a 5 day suspension without pay or some other nominal punishment.

Some officers have a laundry list of incidents in their internal affairs records where the pattern of abusing their authority is obvious, yet they still have jobs and continue to fuck people over with little or no repercussions. The entire law enforcement culture encourages this "get away with murder" mentality and no one ever does anything about it.

Post: #18

Are there any fellow vets here?

From my experiences: you learn to accept "thanks" from people by just nodding your head and biting your tongue. Pretty much every way I've ever been thanked was nothing but a self-righteous reinforcement of personal beliefs (e.g. "Thank you, you're defending our freedoms in Iraq!" or "Thank you, I support you, but not who you serve or what you do!")

As an expatriate in Germany, I see how they treat their own veterans - largely with disdain - and really appreciate how things are back home.

Cops on the other hand...

Post: #19

(08-04-2013 12:49 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  The worst part is that internal affairs in most departments is a joke. So if the cops do actually get caught doing something wrong or someone files a complaint about them, they usually only get a slap on the wrist. A lot of the things police do that would land a civilian in jail earn a 5 day suspension without pay or some other nominal punishment.

Some officers have a laundry list of incidents in their internal affairs records where the pattern of abusing their authority is obvious, yet they still have jobs and continue to fuck people over with little or no repercussions. The entire law enforcement culture encourages this "get away with murder" mentality and no one ever does anything about it.

As a practical matter this is much more difficult than it seems. You have people with lots of power and authority but because of the large area in which they are deployed, very little operational control/supervision. Cameras were a good start, but I think it's high time we started putting them on the officers themselves, not just on the cruiser's dashboard.

I would also argue that we should ratchet back their enforcement duties to real crimes (property and violence) and get them out of the social engineering business, but that's another tangent.

Post: #20

(08-04-2013 10:04 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  Yes, and it should be debatable.

They can get away with murder (cops) and rape (military), civilians get thrown in the hole and the keys are thrown away. The former group should get the same treatment.

OK, it is debatable. The whole "rape in the military" thing is a hard-core feminist offensive against male military values. We saw "Tailhook" blown out of proportion in the 1990s, and now they are back with their distorted statistics and rhetoric.

The rate of rape in the military is below that of the same age cohort in colleges.

I think military are put on a pedestal, but the rape thing is just another feminist offensive against men.

Post: #21

(08-04-2013 12:57 PM)Mack Four Wrote:  I would also argue that we should ratchet back their enforcement duties to real crimes (property and violence) and get them out of the social engineering business, but that's another tangent.

But how else would they get new weapons and cars every 2-3 years?

It's an irony that some departments have "to protect and serve" painted on their cars.

Post: #22

(08-04-2013 12:54 PM)Blick Mang Wrote:  Are there any fellow vets here?

There's a few of us. I know how German's general pop. treats their vets/active military.

Post: #23

Gone are the days of the friendly cop who settled disputes without arrests, put people in the drunk tank to cool off without charges, gave you a warning, etc... They were peace officers, serving and protecting. Keeping everyone on a even keel.

Now it's "law enforcement", which is a drastic change in verbiage and therefore mindset. We're all viewed as perps. A cop walks up to you and in his mind he's already deciding on what charges he can hit you with.

And now that most cities view us as walking piggy banks, these charges are getting more ridiculous. There are fines and tickets for just about everything imaginable. You question them at all and you get resisting arrest or trumped up "assault of a police officer". They are the bureaucracy's enforcers.

Post: #24

(08-04-2013 01:15 PM)flyfreshandyoung Wrote:  Gone are the days of the friendly cop who settled disputes without arrests, put people in the drunk tank to cool off without charges, gave you a warning, etc... They were peace officers, serving and protecting. Keeping everyone on a even keel.

That's of no fault of law enforcement. The breakdown of traditional values brought this on.

Post: #25

(08-04-2013 01:15 PM)flyfreshandyoung Wrote:  Gone are the days of the friendly cop who settled disputes without arrests, put people in the drunk tank to cool off without charges, gave you a warning, etc... They were peace officers, serving and protecting. Keeping everyone on a even keel.

Now it's "law enforcement", which is a drastic change in verbiage and therefore mindset. We're all viewed as perps. A cop walks up to you and in his mind he's already deciding on what charges he can hit you with.

And now that most cities view us as walking piggy banks, these charges are getting more ridiculous. There are fines and tickets for just about everything imaginable. You question them at all and you get resisting arrest or trumped up "assault of a police officer". They are the bureaucracy's enforcers.

(08-04-2013 01:17 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  That's of no fault of law enforcement. The breakdown of traditional values brought this on.

The prison industry is big business. Private prisons, corrections unions, prison construction and staffing contractors. Not to mention the wonderful winning rhetoric of "crime" as a political issue to run on.