Post: #1

I have a bullshit layperson's theory on what might make a difference in Afghanistan that I want to try out, particularly to see what those of you who have been there think.

From what I understand, a big problem with Afghanistan--why it is ungovernable--is the geography. Lots of rugged mountains, no big rivers or access to the sea to allow easy communication/transportation between regions. This creates 2 problems: 1) it's very difficult for a central government to exert authority, and 2) all the isolated hill tribes remain very insular, resistant to outsiders, backward, etc.

Could this situation be improved by a massive program of road-building? Hypothetically, if the country was criss-crossed by something like our interstate highway system, could that eventually change the culture? Or perhaps railroads could work the same way. But if the country could be physically linked together, then my thought is that even after we leave, there could be gradual progress. Easier for the national government to govern, gradual spread of education and commerce, etc.

I am not sure if something like this is even possible, even with the amounts of money and manpower we have been pouring in. The interstate highways were built pretty quickly in the U.S. I think, but that was with the industrial output of an advanced nation, much easier terrain for the most part, and a lot less sniping and IEDs.

I apologize if this seems retarded. Just something I have been mulling.

Post: #2

(07-29-2013 11:11 PM)Ryre Wrote:  I have a bullshit layperson's theory on what might make a difference in Afghanistan that I want to try out, particularly to see what those of you who have been there think.

From what I understand, a big problem with Afghanistan--why it is ungovernable--is the geography. Lots of rugged mountains, no big rivers or access to the sea to allow easy communication/transportation between regions. This creates 2 problems: 1) it's very difficult for a central government to exert authority, and 2) all the isolated hill tribes remain very insular, resistant to outsiders, backward, etc.

Could this situation be improved by a massive program of road-building? Hypothetically, if the country was criss-crossed by something like our interstate highway system, could that eventually change the culture? Or perhaps railroads could work the same way. But if the country could be physically linked together, then my thought is that even after we leave, there could be gradual progress. Easier for the national government to govern, gradual spread of education and commerce, etc.

I am not sure if something like this is even possible, even with the amounts of money and manpower we have been pouring in. The interstate highways were built pretty quickly in the U.S. I think, but that was with the industrial output of an advanced nation, much easier terrain for the most part, and a lot less sniping and IEDs.

I apologize if this seems retarded. Just something I have been mulling.

This assumes the problem of Afghanistan is central control. As a middle-easterner that speaks the some Dari and fluent Farsi and has dealt with many Afghans, I can say that the issue is beyond central governance. The best thing you can do is let them be. Honestly. I have never met a westerner that could fully understand the culture in the region, particularly Afghan culture. It is just full of so many issues that you don't even have in the west. Furthermore, why do you assume they need "progress" or change to their culture? What is wrong with the culture currently?

Post: #3

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_1_(Afghanistan)


Afghanistan is that crazy uncle at the family reunion. Just let him be, and don't provoke him.


I'm suspecting one of the primary goals for building Highway 1 wasn't to facilitate or enrich the lives of Afghanis, but make it easier to transport shipments of mined minerals when the US gets that ball rolling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/...d=all&_r=0


Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice skate uphill.

Post: #4

It seemed like the guys in at the Taj Bar in Jalalabad had the right idea. They were using technology as a way for the Afghan people to connect with the rest of the world. And the guy who led the operation, a burner, was quite the visionary. Here's the article:
The Merry Pranksters Who Hacked the Afghan War
I'm deploying to AFG in a about 2 mos time so, I'll let you know what I think about it; whether this is salvageable or not, though my present feelings lead me to believe that it's a hopeless cause.

Post: #5

(07-29-2013 11:28 PM)choichoi Wrote:  It seemed like the guys in at the Taj Bar in Jalalabad had the right idea. They were using technology as a way for the Afghan people to connect with the rest of the world. And the guy who led the operation, a burner, was quite the visionary. Here's the article:
The Merry Pranksters Who Hacked the Afghan War
I'm deploying to AFG in a about 2 mos time so, I'll let you know what I think about it; whether this is salvageable or not, though my present feelings lead me to believe that it's a hopeless cause.

Hanging out with the AA (Afghan Army) is a trip. Just don't smoke the Afghan kush

Post: #6

Theres no practical or economical way of "fixing" the savages. Leave them to their savage ways.

Post: #7

There have been infrastructure projects (road building and canal digging), but that isn't the problem. The tribal lines and hatreds run deep. Throw in radical jihadists and drug dealers, and you have a toxic brew of shit stewing away.

My son is there on deployment right now. ANA, ANP and ANASF are taking the brunt of the actions now, so I hear. Once we leave, I have no doubt the corrupt central government will fail, and the country will sink back into civil war.

Mission accomplished....indeed.

Post: #8

(07-30-2013 12:19 AM)greensteelhead Wrote:  There have been infrastructure projects (road building and canal digging), but that isn't the problem. The tribal lines and hatreds run deep. Throw in radical jihadists and drug dealers, and you have a toxic brew of shit stewing away.

My son is there on deployment right now. ANA, ANP and ANASF are taking the brunt of the actions now, so I hear. Once we leave, I have no doubt the corrupt central government will fail, and the country will sink back into civil war.

Mission accomplished....indeed.

Pretty much this. Going out on patrol with the ANA is a shit show Everyone is always some guy's cousin out there so you never know who to trust, there's blood fueds between tribes and families that have lasted HUNDREDS of years.

Post: #9

Afghanistan is an artificial country spawned by the late British Empire. Just partition it along ethnic borders. The South would go to the Pashtun. The North would be split among the ethnic Tajiks and Uzbeks.

I am not an expert on Afghanistan, but wasn't the U.S.-supported "Northern Alliance" who defeated the Pashtun Talibans in 2001-2002 composed of mostly ethnic Tajiks and Uzbeks? Balkanize the country. Mission accomplished.

Post: #10

Part of me says, let them solve their own problems.

Part of me says, carpet bomb it back to the stone age.

Either way, we won't have to worry about them with plan A or B.