Post: #1

This forum in general has made me look down upon women. And I think that has limited my game.

An average blue pill man is used to putting women on pedestals, but this forum steps on them. I don't think this is intentional, but it is something that has been noted and changed the way I treat women.

There is so much of pointing out the hypocrisy in women that it is hard to enjoy their company. However women should be loved for their beauty.

My goal for the next month is to begin appreciating women again.

Has anyone else noticed a similar change in how they treat women after spending extensive time on RVF?

Post: #2

It's not the forum, just the more you interact and sleep with them/gain experience or get closer to that number Roosh was talking about I think it's around 25 that you see patterns and similar disgusting behavior you get disgusted and tired. The whole dating scene in America is a war zone and slumming through the trenches you start to get hard and cynical. There are moments of beauty and joy but they are far and few between.

Post: #3

If women weren't so consistently hypocritical/childish/stupid/irrational/you name it, then this forum wouldn't exist.

Don't allow the opinions of the members of this forum to discourage you are make you think less of women.

Rather seek reality and truth. If knowing the truth causes you to value women less, then so be it, but don't blame this forum to acknowledging reality.

Don't blame the player, blame the game.

We didn't create this.

Post: #4

I will blame the player, not the game.
It must be noted I don't live in DC or Toronto though.

Too much manosphere makes you bitter.
Like a feminist, you start to think about powerplays, gender politics.

Divorce, false rape, positive discrimination, emasculation...

Like a feminist, you start to see the other gender as the enemy.
And the player is to be blamed for that, not the game.

The game sucks because of cultural marxism, leftism, PCism.
The game also sucks because of religiosity, hatred and bigotry.

But girls are still beautiful.

Not all of them, and maybe less than in some mystical past, maybe.
But girls are the only source of beauty in the world, the rest is secondary.

If you don't see that anymore because now you're such a 'realist'...
... you've lost a major source of happiness.

Don't be upset with women, because you expected them to be like men.
Don't be upset with children, because you expected them to be adults.
Don't be upset with your dog, because you expected him know better.

Post: #5

Yeah, it's a good idea to unplug from the forum from time to time and rely on some real-world observations as spending too much time thinking about some of this stuff can make you bitter.

Just remember that the world is hardly ever as black and white as people paint it.

Some of the most selfless people I've met in my life are women to whom I'm greatly indebted, though I know they'd never call on me to "pay them back."

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #6

Have you ever looked down from doggystyle?

Post: #7

(07-16-2013 03:35 AM)sixsix Wrote:  Don't be upset with women, because you expected them to be like men.
Don't be upset with children, because you expected them to be adults.
Don't be upset with your dog, because you expected him know better.

I think there's a real dearth of compassion and empathy in much of the manosphere, just as there is in feminist discourse. Men and women seem to have become enemies, and I find that sad. I don't regret the leaving behind of the romantic myths that I was force fed as a young man, but cynicism applied to the whole of the opposite sex is only going to make you less happy. The more you can love about life (and I surely struggle with this as much as most people) the better off you are.

All women have manifest limitations, but I am still happy to make some of them my friends. They have made my life richer and fuller. I clearly see that in the wrong circumstances they could be persuaded to do me harm, but that's the case with just about anyone that you allow yourself to be vulnerable to. The richest human sharing requires vulnerability, and I think that's what a lot of us are most scared of.

Post: #8

This is stupid.

If you wanted to learn how to fix your car, and read a book about them, and found out about all the problems a car can have, would you complain about that book making you hate cars?

No, you enjoy the car for what it is, a method of transportation, but you don't expect it to be anything but a source of woes and problems in the long run. You dont expect it to run forever. You know its nature. By being this much wiser, you save yourself the activation and pain of unrealistic expectations, and you know what to do when a problem arise.

And that's all game is. Its knowledge of how to deal with women. If you don't like the way it makes you feel, you are probably just dissapointed in women in general and are foolishly taking it out on yourself rather than moving forward with the information, using it to benefit yourself.

Post: #9

(07-16-2013 04:04 AM)Acute Angle Wrote:  All women have manifest limitations, but I am still happy to make some of them my friends. They have made my life richer and fuller. I clearly see that in the wrong circumstances they could be persuaded to do me harm, but that's the case with just about anyone that you allow yourself to be vulnerable to. The richest human sharing requires vulnerability, and I think that's what a lot of us are most scared of.

I agree completely. We shouldn't forget most guys are retards as well. And yet, we have friends. It is all about selection. Being mentally healthy and meeting mentally healthy people.

There's truth in the players-meet-sluts stereotype.

I definitely don't think game only works on sluts in bars and clubs. I am a huge game proponent. Game works on smart girls, hot girls, white, yellow and black girls. Politics, religion, business, dating and just about anything else in the human and animal world, could be considered game.

However, the average guy that gets into game, is a certain way, from a certain background, and will attract a certain breed of people. Especially initially, and it takes a few rounds of enlightenment to move beyond that. Many won't get that far.

Coming from nothing, fucking PoF girls feels like everything.

But don't forget that many girls in bars, clubs and online dating are going to be girls you will look down upon. If you're content with low-hanging fruit, don't complain about the bitter aftertaste.

NAWALT. All women are women, respond to game, are hypergamous. But not all women are corrupted whores only good for fucking.

Post: #10

There is nothing to gain from looking down on women. There is nothing to gain focusing on their negatives.

Women are your playthings. They are there to entertain you. They are there for companionship. A woman should never play such an integral role in your life so that when she is removed or not present everything comes crashing down.

What you're doing is taking them off a pedestal and putting them into a pit --the complete opposite of the average man. why not just have her on neutral ground instead?

Post: #11

(07-16-2013 04:59 AM)silverbullit Wrote:  This is stupid.

If you wanted to learn how to fix your car, and read a book about them, and found out about all the problems a car can have, would you complain about that book making you hate cars?

No, you enjoy the car for what it is, a method of transportation, but you don't expect it to be anything but a source of woes and problems in the long run. You dont expect it to run forever. You know its nature. By being this much wiser, you save yourself the activation and pain of unrealistic expectations, and you know what to do when a problem arise.

And that's all game is. Its knowledge of how to deal with women. If you don't like the way it makes you feel, you are probably just dissapointed in women in general and are foolishly taking it out on yourself rather than moving forward with the information, using it to benefit yourself.

I agree. Knowledge is power, with cars and women. Yet some guys buy old Alfa Romeos, even though the electrics are shit and the steering is wonky, because they have that certain style, elan, and they sound great. Very very few people (even guys) buy the best-engineered car they can afford. On Top Gear this week they tested three cabriolet supercars. The presenters all agreed that the Audi was the most rational choice by a mile. But they all said they'd buy the Ferrari despite its weaknesses ( and far higher price tag).

It's just the same with women - romance (irrationality) enters into the decision-making process with many of us. Some of us make poor choices and get badly burned, so we forswear all romance. That diminishes us as human beings, I think. That's allowing other people to determine how we will feel and behave.

Maybe the best solution is to have an Audi for general use and an Alfa for weekend fun? And a tamed mechanic...

Post: #12

You missed my point.

The point I'm making is that regardless of what woman you date, game helps you make the best decisions about them.

After truly taking the red pill you might feel jaded, but you've just relegated women into plaything status, she's just another squeeky toy.

Post: #13

I didn't miss your point - I nuanced it. Game works and I'm all for it.

I think I have truly taken the red pill and have felt jaded. I have used women as playthings, and may continue to do so when the fancy takes me. But I feel somewhat diminished if I can only relate to half of the human race as squeaky toys. Just as an Alfa Romeo owner would feel diminished if he could only see the car as an assemblage of metal, plastic and rubber.

Post: #14

The fact that you phrased it as 'looking down upon women' leads me to believe the problem is in your belief system. We all feel similar due to the empowering nature of the knowledge on this forum; how you process it is down to the ego itself.

For you to look down upon women, you must have a baseline expectation from each woman. I don't look down upon them because different women are suited to different men. I have my own screening process and the interaction is more of an 'audition' however I want the woman to succeed. If she fails, I don't look down upon her because I always try to keep reserve my judgment for people I care about rather than any random woman I meet and therefore generalize.

Having a reactionary mindset will blossom a condescending approach towards women. Just apply game as a tool in your life, a translation for female behaviour.

I was borderline misogynist two years ago for simply reacting in the wrong way towards game theory and my interactions. I would suggest you sit down and understand what you enjoy about women, what you want from them and most importantly, what you want from your own life. Understand that most of the times, the way you treat others is a reflection of your personality and how you see them. Personally, this created a great shift in my perceptions and my mindset went from 'error-searching' to 'pleasure-screening'. When you start wanting a woman to reach the finish line, you will allow her to and judge her on her performance rather than discarding her based upon generalizations (albeit applicable) about all women you have met, read about or whatever before she begins her race to your pants.

Getting drunk on power is acceptable and understandable, but to grow and for your own peace of mind, understand what you love about them and focus on that. Understand that they have their faults, just like how we have ours. Then understand that they are a bonus of being a man to all the other wonders we have. In such a patriarchal society, it is completely reasonable to look down upon them but this is harmful only to yourself.

Lastly, understand that this is a forum for people to share experiences and opinions based on women given their own circumstances. If I have a perfectly legitimate reason to dislike or look down upon a woman (based on my own standards) I will indeed look down upon her but I will usually give new women the benefit of the doubt otherwise it is futile.

Post: #15

(07-16-2013 05:10 AM)WesternCancer Wrote:  There is nothing to gain from looking down on women. There is nothing to gain focusing on their negatives.

Women are your playthings. They are there to entertain you. They are there for companionship. A woman should never play such an integral role in your life so that when she is removed or not present everything comes crashing down.

What you're doing is taking them off a pedestal and putting them into a pit --the complete opposite of the average man. why not just have her on neutral ground instead?

Truth.

And of course the way you viewed women has changed since you have been here. That is point of being here.

I will add this:

Think of being outside playing with a scorpion and picking it up and placing it on to the open palm of your outstretched hand.

Would you be mad if it stung you? Probably.
Would you be mad at the scorpion? Indirectly.
Is it the scorpions fault you got stung? No, its yours for placing a scorpion on your hand.

Next time you play with a scorpion you understand its nature and you stay away from its stinger. Instead you grab and poking it with a stick from behind where it is most vulnerable. Eventually all your friends are coming over, jealous of the new pet scorpion you keep in a terrarium.

So you take you friends out to the sandlot where scorpions are plentiful. They chase scorpions and get stung left and right. At the end of the day, your friends walk home empty handed and you bring back a new scorpion.

Your friends focus on why the scorpions keep stinging them. They ask what kind of vile creature would sting someone that just wants to play with it. They keep trying the same ways over and over again with no luck. They start to believe scorpions are impossible to catch and say who would even want to catch such an evil and cruel scorpion. They think less of the scorpions because they got stung. Eventually they convince themselves they don't want a scorpion and at this point they probably go buy a cat.

You focused on why you kept getting stung. While your friends sat around talking about scorpions, you were out at the sandlot catching them and eventually you figured it out. You catch many scorpions, and get stung many times in the process, but you never get mad because it is in their nature. You don't think less of the scorpions now that you can catch them with ease, you just keep catching scorpions because it is what you like to do.

Its in the scorpions nature to sting. Its in a females nature to be hypocritical/childish/irrational/wary of strangers, etc. There is no point in thinking less of a living creature for something that it innately does.

Post: #16

Every time I ignore what women are truly like, I pay for it.

WIA

Post: #17

@ Antitrace - good post. You are describing the empathetic process - through observation and experiment you come to understand something about how the scorpion is likely to behave, and you appreciate it for itself, an amazing creature.

Unfortunately I think a lot of guys own such animals because it makes them look badass (ego needs), just as some players want to flaunt their prowess with 9's and 10's. The ego can grow so large that hubris enters the picture and the guy ends up getting stung, a bit like Steve Irwin. You never control all of the external parameters, and you can never be completely inside the scorpion's head. Just when you think you've got it all figured out, it will do something unpredictable. That alone is a good enough reason not to look down upon women. I recommend a spirit of sceptical enquiry, allied to fun.

Post: #18

A distinction has to be made between:

Normal Girls:
* Hypergamous (not a bad thing at all)
* Emotionally driven
* Guided by social consensus

* Well raised to be a decent human being

Corrupted Girls:
* Hypergamous (not a bad thing at all)
* Emotionally driven
* Guided by social consensus

* Flake
* Narcissist
* Dishonest

So who are you attracting?

1. "Girls that fuck too quickly, are dysfunctional and not relationship material."
2. "If a girl doesn't put out after three dates, she's out. On to the next."
3. "Why are all the girls I hang out with, dysfunctional?"

Gee, I wonder.

Post: #19

It's just opens your eyes and makes you more clear-sighted.

I don't look down on all women; I appreciate the best women more now that I recognize the rarity of their good character traits.

Don't take what they say too seriously and your game is strengthened.

Post: #20

I am selective and only go out with women who I respect and aren't going to cause me a lot of pain. Numbers I care for not.

Post: #21

"looking down" implies that the women must be "looking up". That you are above and they are below.

But it's apples and oranges. We have distinctly different natures.

You can always count on women to be women. You don't really expect them to act in a logical, consistent, collected manner do you? If they did, why the hell would we be chasing them and loving them and going crazy over them? Then they'd just be dudes with vaginas.

Women are women are women. Love em!

Post: #22

A lot of great posts in this thread.

Sometimes I feel a little bit down upon my increasing realization of what women are truly like, as opposed to what I was raised to believe.

During the week when I might try to set up dates with prospects and get flaked on, attitudes over text, it can be a little bit frustrating. Although I am weakening my response to it.

But when I go out on a weekend, meet some awesome girls, experience strong attraction and tension, and feel all there is between a MAN-WOMAN interaction (and that includes everything besides sex), I feel that high again.

Post: #23

you never said how it hurts your game beside the fact that you enjoy their company less.

if anything, you enjoying them less helps your game because you are more aloof.

Post: #24

There are a lot of great posts in here and I'm happy I brought up this topic.

(07-16-2013 12:13 PM)JoyStick Wrote:  you never said how it hurts your game beside the fact that you enjoy their company less.

if anything, you enjoying them less helps your game because you are more aloof.

It hurts my game because I have less female friends. Female friends used to be a source of my hook ups, but because I treated them as people who were worth less than me, they understandably got fed up and stopped being friends with me.

They were women, so who were they?

This is the wrong attitude to have if getting love from your social circle is your goal, and that's precisely the attitude I had.

Post: #25

(07-16-2013 01:10 AM)Sleek Wrote:  This forum in general has made me look down upon women. And I think that has limited my game.

An average blue pill man is used to putting women on pedestals, but this forum steps on them. I don't think this is intentional, but it is something that has been noted and changed the way I treat women.

There is so much of pointing out the hypocrisy in women that it is hard to enjoy their company. However women should be loved for their beauty.

My goal for the next month is to begin appreciating women again.

Has anyone else noticed a similar change in how they treat women after spending extensive time on RVF?

What you fail to realize is that we appreciate women more than any other men in the world.

It goes beyond empathy. We recognize the true nature of women, and we still give them the time of day.

We don't talk to their false sides and insecurities. We communicate with them on a deeper level.

The hottest women want to be seen by a force that is greater than them because they are constantly getting their asses kissed by men who try to hide their true intentions.

We don't always leave them for the better, but we do give them the ride of their lives. Aside from providing them with shelter, food and comfort, I'm not sure that there really is much else that we can offer them.

Women are fucked. They'd rather we accept that then put them on false pedestals.