Post: #1

I recently happened upon the work of John B. Calhoun today, a researcher you specialized in social experiments with the use of rats and mice.

From Wikipedia:

Quote:In the early 1960s, the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) acquired property in a rural area outside Poolesville, Maryland. The facility that was built on this property housed several research projects, including those headed by Calhoun. It was here that his most famous experiment, the mouse universe, was created.[1] In July 1968 four pairs of mice were introduced into the Utopian universe. The universe was a 9-foot (2.7 m) square metal pen with 54-inch-high (1.4 m) sides. Each side had four groups of four vertical, wire mesh “tunnels”. The “tunnels” gave access to nesting boxes, food hoppers, and water dispensers. There was no shortage of food or water or nesting material. There were no predators. The only adversity was the limit on space.

Initially the population grew rapidly, doubling every 55 days. The population reached 620 by day 315, after which the population growth dropped markedly. The last surviving birth was on day 600. This period between day 315 and day 600 saw a breakdown in social structure and in normal social behavior. Among the aberrations in behavior were the following: expulsion of young before weaning was complete,

My body, my choice.

Quote:wounding of young, inability of dominant males to maintain the defense of their territory and females, aggressive behavior of females, passivity of non-dominant males with increased attacks on each other which were not defended against. After day 600 the social breakdown continued and the population declined toward extinction. During this period females ceased to reproduce.

Go figure.

Think of the population decline in Japan, and the relative decline in non-immigrant populations in many developed Western nations.

Quote:Their male counterparts withdrew completely, never engaging in courtship or fighting. They ate, drank, slept, and groomed themselves – all solitary pursuits. Sleek, healthy coats and an absence of scars characterized these males. They were dubbed “the beautiful ones”.

Herbs?

Quote:The conclusions drawn from this experiment were that when all available space is taken and all social roles filled, competition and the stresses experienced by the individuals will result in a total breakdown in complex social behaviors, ultimately resulting in the demise of the population.

This experiment is certainly very interesting material for the members of the Roosh society.

The real question is, was the male response to the overpopulation a response to the overpopulation or a response to lack of access to breeding females (due to high competition from more aggressive, strong males) or other loss of social incentives?

Post: #2

Very interesting.

I don't think it's overcrowding per se, but rather the implications greater population density has for polygyny/hypergamy.

With greater population density, females have more dominant males in their line-of-sights at all times.

Thus, said females will be more tempted (subconsciously or consciously) to hold out for the dominant males, and will be more hostile, dismissive, and/or aggressive toward sub-dominant males.

Dominant males will take advantage of this, and will focus on r instead of K reproductive strategy--and with access to a large population of females, will devote their efforts to maximizing copulations instead of provisioning resources in the form of investment or protection upon females.

Thus, as a result of this increased polygyny/hypergamy, the females are left more to their own devices, and have to be more aggressive as a result to protect and provide for themselves and/or their offspring.

And with greater inequality in reproductive outcomes, the sub-dominant males may just give up altogether--retreating from the... rat... race and turn instead to solitude.

Notice I did not mention whether I was talking about mice or humans...

Post: #3

Quote:The real question is, was the male response to the overpopulation a response to the overpopulation or a response to lack of access to breeding females (due to high competition from more aggressive, strong males) or other loss of social incentives?

All of the above apply to each other

Post: #4

A lot of speculation going on here.

Post: #5

I saw a comment on this experiment in an article Milo wrote today:

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Londo...Of-Society

It's a long article, but worth reading.

Post: #6

This also speaks volumes about evolutionary psychology and r/K-type selection theory. The mice were put into an environment where they had unlimited resources. This environment would favor an r-type selection i.e. high reproduction rate, low investment into rearing offspring, early maturity(physical) onset. Eventually, an environment reaches its carrying capacity for a population based on resources. You then end up with a bunch of opportunistic r-types in what has now become a K-type environment. This is where it gets messy. This is where collapse of society begins. Only the most alpha male K-type mice will rise to the top. Lots of mice end up dying because they are too weak to compete in the resource-scarce environment. This is the built-in equilibrium of Darwin. Once resources of an environment become scarce, then the party is over. Only the most physically dominant rise to the top and the rest perish.

That experiment resembles very closely what is happening in today's modern world. Let's break out the popcorn and enjoy the decline!

Post: #7

(12-04-2014 11:25 AM)SteveMcMahon Wrote:  I saw a comment on this experiment in an article Milo wrote today:

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Londo...Of-Society

It's a long article, but worth reading.

This piece by Milo deserves its own thread. It is very well done.

Post: #8

(12-04-2014 12:28 PM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  

(12-04-2014 11:25 AM)SteveMcMahon Wrote:  I saw a comment on this experiment in an article Milo wrote today:

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Londo...Of-Society

It's a long article, but worth reading.

This piece by Milo deserves its own thread. It is very well done.

Milo's fast becoming my favourite journalist. He wields words with the confidence and elan of a champion fencer, and isn't afraid to take a hammer to feminist delusions.

Post: #9

(12-04-2014 12:28 PM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  

(12-04-2014 11:25 AM)SteveMcMahon Wrote:  I saw a comment on this experiment in an article Milo wrote today:

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Londo...Of-Society

It's a long article, but worth reading.

This piece by Milo deserves its own thread. It is very well done.

Agreed. Some choice passages, to convince you all to read its entirety:

Quote:Social commentators, journalists, academics, scientists and young men themselves have all spotted the trend: among men of about 15 to 30 years old, ever-increasing numbers are checking out of society altogether, giving up on women, sex and relationships and retreating into pornography, sexual fetishes, chemical addictions, video games and, in some cases, boorish lad culture, all of which insulate them from a hostile, debilitating social environment created, some argue, by the modern feminist movement.

Quote:Women today are schooled in victimhood, taught to be aggressively vulnerable and convinced that the slightest of perceived infractions, approaches or clumsy misunderstandings represents "assault," "abuse" or "harassment." That may work in the safe confines of campus, where men can have their academic careers destroyed on the mere say-so of a female student.

Quote:Meanwhile, boys are falling behind girls academically, perhaps because relentless and well-funded focus has been placed on girls' achievement in the past few decades and little to none on the boys who are now achieving lower grades, fewer honors, fewer degrees and less marketable information economy skills. Boys' literacy, in particular, is in crisis throughout the West. We've been obsessing so much over girls, we haven't noticed that boys have slipped into serious academic trouble.

So what happened to those boys who, in 2001, were falling behind girls at school, were less likely to go to college, were being given drugs they did not need and whose self-esteem and confidence issues haven't just been ignored, but have been actively ridiculed by the feminist Establishment that has such a stranglehold on teaching unions and Left-leaning political parties?

In short: they grew up, dysfunctional, under-served by society, deeply miserable and, in many cases, entirely unable to relate to the opposite sex. It is the boys who were being betrayed by the education system and by culture at large in such vast numbers between 1990 and 2010 who represent the first generation of what I call the sexodus, a large-scale exit from mainstream society by males who have decided they simply can't face, or be bothered with, forming healthy relationships and participating fully in their local communities, national democracies and other real-world social structures.

Quote:Men say the gap between what women say and what they do has never been wider. Men are constantly told they should be delicate, sensitive fellow travellers on the feminist path. But the same women who say they want a nice, unthreatening boyfriend go home and swoon over simple-minded, giant-chested, testosterone-saturated hunks in Game of Thrones. Men know this, and, for some, this giant inconsistency makes the whole game look too much like hard work. Why bother trying to work out what a woman wants, when you can play sports, masturbate or just play video games from the comfort of your bedroom?

Quote:Unlike modern feminists, who are driving a wedge between the sexes, Men's Rights Activists "actually seem to want sexual equality," he says. But men's studies authors and male academics are constantly tip-toeing around and making sure they don't appear too radical. Their feminine counterparts have no such forbearance, of course, with what he calls "hipster feminists," such as the Guardian's Jessica Valenti parading around in t-shirts that read: "I BATHE IN MALE TEARS."
"I'm a critic of feminism," says Donovan. "But I would never walk around wearing a shirt that says, "I MAKE WOMEN CRY." I'd just look like a jerk and a bully."

Post: #10

That was a great article, and I am now delving through the plethora of fantastic comments on it.

Post: #11

The thing that makes this incomparable to the present situation is that the places that are most crowded/populous are breeding the most. Where as some of the places that are the least populous/crowded have stopped breeding. We are now essentially bringing in people from the more crowded/populous places to the less populous crowded.

I think this study is cited to give the impression that this is natural. Which in our case isn't necessarily the true. We have a social system, birth control, and social movements in the western world that have all contributed to it.

Post: #12

(12-04-2014 03:41 PM)Darius Wrote:  The thing that makes this incomparable to the present situation is that the places that are most crowded/populous are breeding the most. Where as some of the places that are the least populous/crowded have stopped breeding. We are now essentially bringing in people from the more crowded/populous places to the less populous crowded.

I think this study is cited to give the impression that this is natural. Which in our case isn't necessarily the true. We have a social system, birth control, and social movements in the western world that have all contributed to it.

You're not making an even comparison. The world's most populous areas don't have unlimited resources, and the mice in the experiment had nowhere to escape to. My own extrapolation is that the resources are what trigger the behavior in the experiment, specifically being raised in an environment where one does not need to struggle for food and shelter.