Post: #1

This has become a curiosity of mine. How do you cross your legs?

Do you do the european leg cross
http://westsidetoastmasters.com/resource..._cross.jpg

Or the american four
http://westsidetoastmasters.com/resource..._cross.jpg

Or do you just sit normally?

The website westsidetoastmasters.com had an article on body language with leg crossing. I found it pretty interesting.

I'm an american 4 type of guy myself.

Post: #2

(06-30-2013 10:44 AM)frenchie Wrote:  This has become a curiosity of mine. How do you cross your legs?

Do you do the european leg cross
http://westsidetoastmasters.com/resource..._cross.jpg

Or the american four
http://westsidetoastmasters.com/resource..._cross.jpg

Or do you just sit normally?

The website westsidetoastmasters.com had an article on body language with leg crossing. I found it pretty interesting.

I'm an american 4 type of guy myself.

You linked to the same example in both photos.

I get it on with the american figure 4.

Cool fact about Germans looking out for it during World War II.

I also sometimes do the figure four leg clamp. I've caught myself doing the Ankle Lock, but I think I naturally sensed it made me look withdrawn and possibly insecure because I often check myself.

As for the European leg cross, I've always felt it looked feminine. I'll do it sometimes in Southeast Asia to avoid pointing the bottoms of my feet at people, but I can't sit like that for long without having to just uncross my legs.

Interesting article.

Post: #3

(06-30-2013 10:58 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  You linked to the same example in both photos.

I like to give my balls room to breathe (I usually don't even wear underwear for this reason), so crossing my legs isn't an option for me...

Post: #4

Im european and I use american leg crossing since its much more comfortable

Post: #5

Euro style makes me feel like a woman

Post: #6

Men with balls don't cross their legs.

Post: #7

European sometimes in meetings at work.



No cross when I'm not at work.

Post: #8

Hmm, I'm from Europe and I never crossed my legs like that "European style" photo is showing, I've always crossed them like, what you would call I guess, "American style. To be honest I've seen guys both in Europe and the US doing both, so I don't know if it's an European/American thing or just personal preference.

Post: #9

(06-30-2013 01:12 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  Hmm, I'm from Europe and I never crossed my legs like that "European style" photo is showing, I've always crossed them like, what you would call I guess, "American style. To be honest I've seen guys both in Europe and the US doing both, so I don't know if it's an European/American thing or just personal preference.

If you read the article, it mentions that while it's still resisted by older Europeans, it's now common among people in different cultures around the world because of the predominance of American movies. People emulate what they see on TV.

Also, the one known as the European cross is often used in business settings everywhere. I've seen Americans use the "European" version as well, like you mentioned, but it always looks effeminate. They're usually pretty metro or particularly cultured.

I have noticed Europeans do this more, so the article backs up my observations, though I suppose a lot of the ones I'm thinking of are middle-aged or older.

Post: #10

Just do the opposite of what Jezebel says: "Fuck You, Dudes Who Sit With Their Legs Spread So Wide That They Take Up Two Seats (Your Dick Is Not That Big)."

My balls get crushed with anything less than a 45 degree spread.

Post: #11

I can't cross my legs for more than a couple of seconds without feeling very uncomfortable and strained, so I just never do it. Not sure how other guys actually sit like that for extended periods of time.

Post: #12

I am from Europe and I cannot hold "European" style for longer then a few seconds. I feel that my legs are too muscular, it gets uncomfortable, I hate the feeling how my balls get squeezed and I feel emasculating myself when doing this - so I do not.

I beleive this pose is for women in skirts to hide underwear and display long thin legs. For men - I mostly see skinny and weak dudes doing this and most often these are drunken dudes who love this pose. For some reason herbs wearing socks and sandals love this pose too displaying their ugly feet and this makes me want to kick them for spreading their uglyness on my display.

I like the "Americain" 4 truough altrough I see nothing Americain about it. It leaves space for my balls so I use it. I sit without crossing my legs most of time trough or crossing them in shin level (altrough I try to get out of habit to cross them - as it is not a body language that I want to be displaying)

Who ever associated these styles with America and Europe was wrong imho.

Post: #13

(06-30-2013 06:23 PM)Mage Wrote:  I like the "Americain" 4 truough altrough I see nothing Americain about it. It leaves space for my balls so I use it. I sit without crossing my legs most of time trough or crossing them in shin level (altrough I try to get out of habit to cross them - as it is not a body language that I want to be displaying)

Who ever associated these styles with America and Europe was wrong imho.

You European guys seem really bothered by this. LOL The article makes it clear enough that it originated as the American style of crossing your legs but is now used nearly everywhere, including among younger Europeans, due to spread of American culture through movies.

Germans looking for this behavior as a sign of being an American during the World War II is also mentioned in this book. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0553804...0553804723

Honestly, I put a bit more credibility in the article and the book than a couple European guys' having a gut reaction to a feminine leg cross being labeled as European.

Don't take it personally. We understand that you've moved on.

Post: #14

(06-30-2013 07:09 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  You European guys seem really bothered by this.

Hmm? Why do you say that, the euros that spoke in this thread simply said that they don't use what the OP called "european style", you make it sound like we're throwing a tantrum or something.

(06-30-2013 07:09 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Honestly, I put a bit more credibility in the article and the book than a couple European guys' having a gut reaction to a feminine leg cross being labeled as European.

"Gut reaction", again you're implying we're somehow overreacting about something, we're simple telling about our personal experience.

Where's that article that you mentioned? Can you post a link?

The only thing I can say is that I cross my legs the way is most comfortable to me, not because I saw it in an American movie like you're implying.

And I think men have been sitting down and crossing their legs long before America even existed, so calling all this European or American styles just seems a bit silly to me, but if it makes you feel any better in asserting your masculinity, sure, you win the prize, Americans are all manly and we Euros are all weakly and effeminate.

Post: #15

I do both.
I do american style while reading newspapers or books.
Euro style while just chilling.

Post: #16

Do what makes you comfortable. Kabal posted a picture of Don Draper, i.e. Jon Hamm from Mad Men with his legs crossed European style. It looks fine. Why? Because he's a good actor playing a guy who's uber-confident like Cary Grant or Steve McQueen.

I say, this is a situation where 'just be yourself' applies. But whatever you do, take up space, and be confident and relaxed. To assume there's some perfect leg-crossing pose that will work for every guy is to suppose that chicks are logical creatures. Thank heavens, they're not.

Post: #17

I do both, or neither. When you've been sitting a while (on airplanes etc) its good to change things up a bit.

Post: #18

(06-30-2013 07:47 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  And I think men have been sitting down and crossing their legs long before America even existed, so calling all this European or American styles just seems a bit silly to me, but if it makes you feel any better in asserting your masculinity, sure, you win the prize, Americans are all manly and we Euros are all weakly and effeminate.

lol

Yeah that wasn't an emotional reaction at all...

Anyhow, you're still not getting the point. Of course you didn't consciously pick it up from a movie. The implication is that it was assimilated into your culture due to American movies (as well as other cultures around the world). That's a huge difference. You do know that cultures seldom, if ever, evolve consciously, right?

And I didn't say I thought Americans were more manly. I've made it my life to step in and out of cultures and don't think like that. I only said that you guys seemed somehow bothered by what most of us perceive as the more effeminate version being called European. Either that or the thought of picking up anything from America. I personally could care less.

If anything, I was giving you a hard time about being sensitive about it as I've noticed Europeans often act defensive, threatened, and competitive about American/European dichotomies.

And you're just backing up that assertion of sensitivity with this talk of me wanting Americans to be viewed as more manly. Huh? The only instance I could see you perhaps got that was my ending sentence, which I closed with a big grin to convey sarcasm. If there's any one on this board not riding that train it's me. Even if every man in Europe still crossed their legs like that I wouldn't give a shit, to be honest. In either a positive or negative way. And I'm far from the patriotic type.

In any case, this hardly seems worth arguing about. I sense that people who know a little bit more about the subject have ascertained something different than your personal observations (which are based on the most recent cultural behavior patterns), but if that doesn't sit right with you, so be it. Don't know that it'll change much though.

As for your question, I was referring to the article mentioned in the OP - which is what I thought we were all discussing... http://westsidetoastmasters.com/resource...hap10.html

Post: #19

(07-01-2013 12:26 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  Do what makes you comfortable. Kabal posted a picture of Don Draper, i.e. Jon Hamm from Mad Men with his legs crossed European style. It looks fine. Why? Because he's a good actor playing a guy who's uber-confident like Cary Grant or Steve McQueen.

I say, this is a situation where 'just be yourself' applies. But whatever you do, take up space, and be confident and relaxed. To assume there's some perfect leg-crossing pose that will work for every guy is to suppose that chicks are logical creatures. Thank heavens, they're not.

Fair enough, but the messages you send with body language have very little to do with logic.

In fact, I'd say women are more influenced by your body language because they are less logical.

Post: #20

There are hundreds of things American men talk about 'ew that's gay'

Do european men talk like that too?

Btw, I see Obama doing 'feminine leg crossing' all the time. Do we still need to argue about this?

Post: #21

To be straight up with you, I was taught how to sit Indian style when I was in pre-school.



You know I had to stop that shit.

Post: #22

At an early stage when I encountered game I became aware of body language and how it's expressed unconsciously.

These days I tailor every poke to my situation on. Control your body language and you can control your state of mind.

The leg cross is not really a biggie though. I can do both depending on the company. A more sophisticated crowd will naturally respond better to a pose that's mindful of their space. The opposite would be useful when you're around a bunch of hockey players that just stepped into a sports bar.

Post: #23

(07-01-2013 05:32 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  There are hundreds of things American men talk about 'ew that's gay'

Do european men talk like that too?

Btw, I see Obama doing 'feminine leg crossing' all the time. Do we still need to argue about this?

That's because Obama is femme.

Post: #24

I'm not sure if it's just me but I find both forms of leg crossing to be uncomfortable and unnatural. I usually cross my legs at the shins when there's something to put them on but never high up at the knees or thighs.

Post: #25

I have naturally long legs and leg crossing feels uncomfortable to me. I'll cross my ankles with my legs extended but that's about it. In my opinion men can get away with leg crossing only if they're suited down/dressed nicely.