Post: #26

(06-24-2013 11:45 PM)godofwar Wrote:  anyways, i would think deadlift would help for lower back, it always hurts after a good deadlift day (this time good type of pain). apparently not though. is there anything else i can do besides hyperextensions?

DL's are awesome for lower back. What kind of routine and weights?

You can switch it up a bit with Romanian and SLDL's, but they're one of the best things for your lower back. I would only use hypers for rehabbing and warming up with not a lot of weight. You're likely to overwork your erector spinae if you do deadlifts and hypers too often.

Post: #27

Deadlifts for your whole back. They will make your lats blow up too.

For your lats, try more pullups, but sets with higher reps - 15-20 rep ranges. Pronated grip, arms out wide, no kipping, and full range of motion all of the way to the bottom of the pullup where your arms are fully extended.

Post: #28

(06-25-2013 05:21 AM)augen sehen Wrote:  

(06-24-2013 11:45 PM)godofwar Wrote:  anyways, i would think deadlift would help for lower back, it always hurts after a good deadlift day (this time good type of pain). apparently not though. is there anything else i can do besides hyperextensions?

DL's are awesome for lower back. What kind of routine and weights?

You can switch it up a bit with Romanian and SLDL's, but they're one of the best things for your lower back. I would only use hypers for rehabbing and warming up with not a lot of weight. You're likely to overwork your erector spinae if you do deadlifts and hypers too often.

yeah, glad you feel me on the hyperextensions. i don't do much volume on deadlift, maybe i need to switch it up. I try to go heavy (a little under 300 no straps, over 300 with straps) for 5-10 reps. I know the benefits of changing your workout, just as an overall strategy in general. I think it's time to go lighter, but maybe hit the 15-20 rep range. What kind of experiences do you guys have with this attack plan?

Post: #29

I'd never do 15-20 rep range with deadlifts. That's just asking for problems. Anyway, your back seems to be missing rows, not deadlifts.

My back routine (not bragging, but my back is the best part of my body and its all through hard work and mostly because I love back exercises) has a lot of different types of pulls.

What you can use... brackets indicate what you should emphasize in that exercise, reps or weight.
Pull ups (volume)
Weighted pull ups (weight)
Face pulls (volume)
Cable rows with different grips (weight)
Lat pull downs (volume)
Behind-neck lat pull downs (don't do them you're not ready yet)
One-armed db rows (weight - use straps if you have to)

If your gym has it, use the T-bar as well. Its fucking awesome. Both with one hand and two hands.

EDIT: I don't know about changing your routine, but I'd have two back days if I was building up my back. On one day do heavy rows and deadlifts, and on the other the light volume work.

Post: #30

Deadlifts are great for your lats if your form is correct. For guys with strong legs and lower backs it can be easy to muscle through a deadlift without fully engaging your lats. The advice I got that finally fixed my form was to lift my chest, pack my neck and try to 'break' the bar as I take the tension out before starting the lifting motion. This will engage your upper back and probably up your deadlift max by at least 50 pounds.

Post: #31

(06-25-2013 05:32 PM)augen sehen Wrote:  I'd never do 15-20 rep range with deadlifts. That's just asking for problems. Anyway, your back seems to be missing rows, not deadlifts.

My back routine (not bragging, but my back is the best part of my body and its all through hard work and mostly because I love back exercises) has a lot of different types of pulls.

What you can use... brackets indicate what you should emphasize in that exercise, reps or weight.
Pull ups (volume)
Weighted pull ups (weight)
Face pulls (volume)
Cable rows with different grips (weight)
Lat pull downs (volume)
Behind-neck lat pull downs (don't do them you're not ready yet)
One-armed db rows (weight - use straps if you have to)

If your gym has it, use the T-bar as well. Its fucking awesome. Both with one hand and two hands.

EDIT: I don't know about changing your routine, but I'd have two back days if I was building up my back. On one day do heavy rows and deadlifts, and on the other the light volume work.

this is helpful. i have felt the benefits of high weight on deadlifts, but i also knew i needed volume. i'll start adding the volume on this stuff you recommended instead. i have realized that i've always cycled reps as a whole, slowly changing over the course of weeks. time to move it up a level and customize each exercise. i like it.

Post: #32

You're probably not hitting back as often as you can. You can train back more than you think. Prioritize back for six months, eat a ton, then post another pic.

This might help get you pointed in the right direction:

"Upper back is one of the hardest body parts to overtrain. It can be trained up to four or five times a week. Splitting exercises by plane of motion into rows, pulldowns, and pulls gives us a basis on how to do this. Rows include bent rows, supported rows, T-bar rows, pulls to the face, and cable rows. Pulldowns include pulldowns with various handles to the front and back, pullovers, chins, and pull-ups. Pulls include barbell cleans, kettlebell cleans, high pulls, upright rows, dumbbell power cleans, and even the Kelso shrug (shrugs done with the upper torso at a 30-45 degree angle and the back arched, allowing the rhomboids to enter the movement).

You can hit upper back two to three days consecutively by doing a row, a pull, or pulldown one day, then hit your back the next day with a different motion. For example, if you bench Monday and Thursday, and squat/deadlift Tuesday and Thursday, you can work rows after your upper body and pulldowns or pulls after lower body. Then you can hit an extra workout for upper back Saturday in the plane of motion you didn’t hit Thursday or Friday. You can customize this to your preference as the permutations and combinations are endless.

Bill Starr recommends about 50 total reps for upper back in a workout, and Bill is hard to disagree with on any subject. Reps and sets of 10 x 5, 7 x 7, and 5 x 10 work well here. You can even do two exercises with 5 x 5 if you're feeling froggy.

Start hammering your back like this and not only will your traps and entire upper back blossom, your biceps will follow suit, even though you might be dropping some arm work after 50 heavy reps of upper back!"

--from this article by Jack Reape
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_arti...ining_tips

Post: #33

When I experimented with training for size several years ago, I found that unlike my pushing muscles, my back responded best to high volume. Matt Kroc's way of doing DB rows (a couple of warm up sets of 10 followed by an all out set of between 20 and 40 reps) worked great, and can also be used with T bar rows (you can also use this method for shrugs; see Derek Poundstone doing shrugs on youtube). Kroc also does a lot of drop sets for back these days. There was a video of him talking about this on youtube recently, where he did a long drop set on the t-bar stripping off a plate every 10 reps.

I tended to use these more as finishers though, after getting in plenty of volume on strict rowing movements such as medium grip straight bar cable rows, bent over barbell rows, and t-bar rows. I aimed to get at least twice the volume of pulling movements compared to pressing as per Joe Defranco.To get the volume required I used to use a rep scheme of 5 x 10-15. The reason for the higher rep scheme is that back tends to be comprised of more slow twitch fibres compared to pressing muscles, due to the fact that one of the main functions of the upper back musculature is to maintain posture, particularly when holding heavy objects etc (this is why deadlifts work so well for back as they are training one of it's main functions).

A way you can confirm this is that if you try to find your one rep max on a pressing movement, once you get close to it, you will probably find that you can't do another rep. However, if you try to find your one rep max on a pulling movement such as a row, you will probably be able to get 2-3 reps with it, and if you add any more weight, then your form will completely break down. This is because of the fibre composition.

I would say a lot of the results I saw came from rowing. I also deadlifted on lower body day for 3 x 3 plus a back down set of 6-10, but I didn't do much vertical pulling as this was a strength for me anyway, whereas I was lacking in the upper middle back, as is the OP. A couple of sets of weighted chins once per week was plenty to maintain my vertical pulling strength.

This article is worth a read too:

http://community.myprotein.com/content/p...coker-694/

Post: #34

Definitely rows.

My back is larger than yours, although my arms are thinner.

My training for the past year or so has focused on more compounds movements, including the barbell row.

Definitely start doing those. And work to get some wide pullups done as well.

Don't worry about bi's. They come with time, get that back going first!

Post: #35

Your back is fine. What you should be focusing on is keep adding mass, in order to do that just focus on exercises like
Deadlifts
Weighted Pullups
Rows(barbell, dumbbell, cables)

There are a bunch of reasons why your back might look a little disproportionate. Probably the most likely is that one side is overdeveloped, if that's the case, you can counter it by adding more mass. It could also be from posture..if that's the case, stretch. Also keep in mind that bodyfat distribution is largely genetic..there are a number of bodybuilders that have a tendency to store more bodyfat in their backs..which hides definition. If that's the case, it will look alright after your cut.

So forget about it, and focus on increasing that weight on your deadlift and pullup, your back will improve as a result.

Post: #36

Rows... Dumb Bell or Kettle Bell--straight bar works in a pinch, but isolation is better.

Actually row on a rower (a LOT). For example, instead of bullshitting between sets or flirting with gym-skanks, walk over to the rowing machine and knock out a couple hundred meters as fast as you can pull on the heaviest resistance. You're in the gym to workout. Socialize somewhere else that you don't pay $100/month to attend. Plus, it's great cardio. Think about it--between every set of heavy lifts, go over and crush a couple hundred meters on the rowing machine. This method will kick your ass and wear you out. You've been warned.

Pull-ups.

Back hyper-extension, add weight as necessary, add rotation.

Kettle Bell Swings.
Kettle Bell complexes.
Kettle Bell snatches.

Cable rotations, vary the angle, do them as violently as you can without injuring yourself.
Beat a tire with a sledgehammer.
Sandbag carries.

Almost all the olympic lifts would be beneficial.

Post: #37

this is all great info.

i am finding that its true, i can put way more volume into back and train more often than i ever realized.

i also find it to be amazing for mental strength. for me, pushing movements are all about explosion and intensity. that's easy.

back is about grinding. it's about digging deep. i'm finding how mental it is, and how much higher in weights and reps i can train than i realized. that's what i've been missing. i've been taking it way too easy, especially on rows, whenever i did rarely hit them.

i leave the gym drenched now.

... and to those commenting about left/right being disproportionate, thx but i'm almost positive that's just the camera/body angle

Post: #38

Good to hear that its working for you man. Keep it up and watch your back become the strongest part of your body, as it should be.