Post: #26

(06-21-2013 01:57 PM)malc Wrote:  You don't need the 85mm or 135mm lenses to get more of a blurred background (bokeh) effect. You just take the picture closer, and you'll get equivalent bokeh.

Blurred background is a side effect, the point is this (its also why models need to be thin):

Post: #27

(06-20-2013 07:14 PM)rivelino Wrote:  some classes are great, some suck, some books are great, some suck, you get the idea.

To get started, what are some of the great books and great classes?

Thanks for this thread btw, brilliant idea.

Post: #28

in the unbearable lightness of being, there's a short passage where kundera explains how tomas's mistress taught the new girl how to take great pictures. it's a great little bit of wisdom. he writes something like this: she bought the new girl several books by the great photographers, and slowly and in detail explained why each picture was so good. and the new girl studied the books carefully.

that's how you train your eye.

for portraiture, two photographers i would recommend are richard avedon and henri cartier bresson. for bresson, i recommend his portrait book "an inner silence", and for avedon, there is a great documentary on youtube (in 9 parts)

http://www.amazon.com/An-Inner-Silence-P...0500288755
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpIZ_S38A_0

as for great classes, you never know. many universities and community colleges and even private instructors teach classes, it's just hard to know who is legitimate and who is a phony. it's sort of like pickup classes. you never who is the real deal until you actually start taking the class. the best way to predict, though, is to find out which photographers they love and admire. imo, if a portrait photographer doesn't admire avedon and bresson -- or know who they are -- then they "don't get it", and i wouldn't want to learn from them.

Post: #29

@babelfish

"Blurred background is a side effect, the point is this (its also why models need to be thin)"

that's a nice diagram, thanks. my thoughts:

1. blurred background is not just a side effect, it's deliberate artistic intent which helps give the picture presence and power.
2. yes, a portrait lens makes people look better, and a reason i actually forgot to mention in my initial post.
3. finally, of course you *can* shoot portraits with 50mm or even 35mm (maybe), you just can't shoot those portraits with the same composition, so tight on the face. but overall i agree, if you want to shoot classic portraits, a portrait lens is very, very useful. worth the investment.

Post: #30

Rivelino a question for you: what in your opinion separates the great portraiture photographers from the average? I mean to say that I doubt they know anything more about light or aperture or lenses etc than any mid level guy so it can't be technical ability. Is it what they manage to draw out of their subjects and hence something intangible that you either have or don't have? I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on this.

Great blog by the way, I love the bit where you run down your monthly conquests and how they are panning out. I think you should advertise that is a blog more clearly on your signature though. The way you have it set up now doesn't make it immediately obvious.

Post: #31

@vorkuta

"what in your opinion separates the great portraiture photographers from the average? I mean to say that I doubt they know anything more about light or aperture or lenses etc than any mid level guy so it can't be technical ability. Is it what they manage to draw out of their subjects and hence something intangible that you either have or don't have? I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on this."

great question. definitely portrait photography has two sides, the technical side and the interpersonal side. the technical is important, but is a given. what makes the difference is the interpersonal, exactly like you said, being able to make the person feel comfortable -- or purposely uncomfortable -- to be open and vulnerable and connect with her, or be sneaky and savvy, or quick and imaginative -- it's doing all these things, doing whatever it takes to capture something special, a special gaze, a special moment.

there are some good stories about this. two immediately come to mine, one about avedon and his portrait of an english royal couple (it's in the avedon documentary i linked above), and one about the portrait of winston churchill. i will find them and post them.

also, in avedon's wikipedia, they say this:

"By eliminating the use of soft lights and props, Avedon was able to focus on the inner worlds of his subjects evoking emotions and reactions. He would at times evoke reactions from his portrait subjects by guiding them into uncomfortable areas of discussion or asking them psychologically probing questions. Through these means he would produce images revealing aspects of his subject's character and personality that were not typically captured by others."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Avedon

Post: #32

http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2009/0...sef-karsh/

"Karsh asked Churchill to remove the cigar in his mouth, but Churchill refused. Karsh walked up to Churchill supposedly to get a light level and casually pulled the signature cigar from the lips of Churchill and walked back toward his camera. As he walked he clicked his camera remote, capturing the ‘determined’ look on Churchill’s face, which was in fact a reflection of his indignantcy. Karsh recounted: “I stepped toward him and without premeditation, but ever so respectfully, I said, ‘Forgive me, Sir’ and plucked the cigar out of his mouth. By the time I got back to my camera, he looked so belligerent he could have devoured me. It was at that instant I took the photograph."

Post: #33

As a follow on for all of us trying to learn about this angle, modelmayhem does have a forum where you can learn about different aspects, even get into the mind of models I guess.

http://www.modelmayhem.com/f.php

One of the threads is about "skeevy experiences" http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=895674

Like rivelino was saying keep it professional during the shoot and work some angle afterwards.

---------------------------

Also, here is a link to explain TFP or TFCD and what a newer model would have to deal with - in other words - if you are working with a new model she shouldn't be giving you a ton of crap.

http://www.newmodels.com/TFP.html

"TFP also means Time For Poop. This translates to the fact that you will not always get something that is even remotely useful to you, let alone GOOD. However, if you have almost zero camera time, it's great no matter what. You need images, and you need to relax. You need to learn set etiquette, and you need to learn how to emote to the camera. But you should always test up... meaning get better photographers, better makeup artists, better styling, better concepts with each shoot. "

------------------------

Also, in reading a bit of the forum some models really like to crap on others (surprise) - you could (if the model is in your area) reach out to do a shoot with her and try to make her feel better, etc.

Miss Photog wrote:
can't really critique you in this section, but I'd suggest building your port more with quality images and getting more experience before asking for pay. If a photographer OFFERS to pay you, that's one thing, but personally I don't think you're really at a level yet where you should ask for pay unless it's like $10/hr. or something. Shooting nudes of course always increases your chance of paid gigs. I specialize in fine art nudes & charge $100/hr., but I've also been doing this for a number of years and have a pretty extensive portfolio.
Good Luck!

+1!
Your portfolio isn't strong enough to charge people. Would you pay you?
From what I've seen, here are some things you should work on before considering charging:
- Stronger poses
- More involved/interesting facial expressions
- a more extensive wardrobe. I almost never shoot in the same outfit twice. It's expensive, but you get out what you put in.

Post: #34

Anyone currently using a full frame camera?

Was in the local camera shop yesterday and the salesperson pretty much schooled me on the advantages of a full frame. So now I am debating a used 5d for about $700 and a full frame lens (24-105mm) for about $900. My buddy was even trying to talk me into a 5d mark II because is has video. Which brings me to my next question, do I need video?
I guess the answer will be what kind of video I am shooting, I think you can figure out what came to mind.

Post: #35

5d m2 has been used for a lot of films to good effect. Tiny furniture with everyone's favorite fat chick Lena whatsherface was in it and that was shot on a 7d which is not full sensor. So the 5dm2 would be overkill for pics I think. Good if you want to shoot a movie and actually have it look good (well you need fast lenses and a good dp also).

Post: #36

(06-26-2013 05:22 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  5d m2 has been used for a lot of films to good effect. Tiny furniture with everyone's favorite fat chick Lena whatsherface was in it and that was shot on a 7d which is not full sensor. So the 5dm2 would be overkill for pics I think. Good if you want to shoot a movie and actually have it look good (well you need fast lenses and a good dp also).

5d m2 is out of my price range and I will need a bunch of lens which will have me at $5K easily. They mocked my Rebel Canon and now I feel like not using it.

I will look into the 7d.

What lenses do you think I would ultimately need?

Post: #37

(06-26-2013 05:34 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 05:22 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  5d m2 has been used for a lot of films to good effect. Tiny furniture with everyone's favorite fat chick Lena whatsherface was in it and that was shot on a 7d which is not full sensor. So the 5dm2 would be overkill for pics I think. Good if you want to shoot a movie and actually have it look good (well you need fast lenses and a good dp also).

5d m2 is out of my price range and I will need a bunch of lens which will have me at $5K easily. They mocked my Rebel Canon and now I feel like not using it.

I will look into the 7d.

What lenses do you think I would ultimately need?

Which rebel? I am going to be using a T3i and that has the same sensor almost as the 7d. I scored a deal on it. And films have been shot on it and they look pretty good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN1m8SlUpA0 this example is a t2i a prior generation. Keep in my mind it has been color corrected and was used by someone who knows what they are doing.

I plan on shooting newbies like me, so wtf are they gonna complain about when they are just wannabe models?

Below is a recommendation that I received for my t3i.

Your t3i is not, it has a crop factor -- then you have to do math to figure out the equivalent. so for you, a 35mm lens is about equal to a 50mm full frame lens. a 50mm lens is more or less what your eye sees in normal life. THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT to take pictures with. train your eyes to see photos. now, the thing is, this standard "what you see in real life" lens -- also called a prime lens -- is not great for portraits. that's why i recommend a "longer" lens, in your case an 85mm lens.

Every beginner, i would recommend only two lenses. to every beginner with a crop factor camera -- for canons, they call it aps-c -- like your t3i, i would recommend a fixed lens 35mm lens, and a fixed lens 85mm lens. that's it. of course, if you already have a zoom lens that came with your camera, that's fine. fine but slightly dangerous, if you truly want to learn the craft of photography. but really, no it's not that dangerous, as long as you don't let all the zooming in and zooming out become a crutch.

He also suggested this site http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/fixed-le...ctures.htm

I have at 18-55 stock zoom lens. I will buy one more lens to start. I am just learning. But if I get some noobie models then they won't gripe too much hopefully.

Post: #38

I have the Rebel T1i which I got second hand for a good price, I see the T3i is about the same price now that I paid for my camera. Body only is $499 vs $1199 for the body of a 7D, I would like to buy a decent camera off the bat and forget about it for awhile.
Canon had a anniversary sale recently, the 60D was priced at $679 and now it is up to $1100 for the body only.

For my untrained eye I have taken some decent pictures with my Rebel, but my friend and the salesperson was saying the ISO is too low and the speed of the lens is slow as well.

Post: #39

(06-26-2013 04:55 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Anyone currently using a full frame camera?

Was in the local camera shop yesterday and the salesperson pretty much schooled me on the advantages of a full frame. So now I am debating a used 5d for about $700 and a full frame lens (24-105mm) for about $900. My buddy was even trying to talk me into a 5d mark II because is has video. Which brings me to my next question, do I need video?
I guess the answer will be what kind of video I am shooting, I think you can figure out what came to mind.

5dMkII will always be easier to sell as many people are using it for micro-budget filmmaking.

Looks like 1200-1500 for a body. But they will be coming down because there are other competitive cameras coming that don't do line skipping in video, which is the DSLR weakness.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-5D-Mar...1c342177f1

Post: #40

IKE - don't you shoot movies? What camera do you use?

Post: #41

(06-26-2013 09:07 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  IKE - don't you shoot movies? What camera do you use?

Probably a fully loaded Red Epic...

7D is much more durable and still pretty decent. If you can stretch a 5DM2 would be nice. It is full frame and I think will be more relevant in the long term because of the sensor. But I am cautious of used gear. Personally, I would use what you have to see if you enjoy shooting models (I know why wouldn't you right?). But maybe you won't enjoy it. Why spend more money?

As I write this, I think I am just gonna use what I have rather than buy another lens. My friend has a couple of lenses I can borrow.

Post: #42

Shooting models would be nice, but all in all I do like photography. I like taking pictures when I travel of the local scenery and people, taking pictures of girls is a good opener.

Iceland for example has some really great landscape for taking pictures and the women are pretty decent as well.

Post: #43

(06-26-2013 09:07 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  IKE - don't you shoot movies? What camera do you use?

Yes I have a 7D, which was the best Price/performance 2+ years ago. All of following is for micro-budget. If you have money, it's all different:

My guess is the best deal right now under 2k will be this, but you'll have to probably wait until at least Spetember 2013 as it is a game changer and will sell rapidly.

Not suitable for model work, however, so for right now under a thousand one of the cheaper Canons which takes a continuous focus lens might be the best deal. Then when the BM camera comes out, you can use the Canon lenses on the BM and you have two great cameras that cover everything.

You need to research and understand crop factors.

Another thing to understand is very high quality lenses have excellent resale value, the tech doesn't evolve nearly as fast as cameras.

The Canon 10-22 would be great for landscape but bad for models, There'a 100 that might be really good for portraits.

Post: #44

guys, the whole point of this post was to talk about how easy it was to meet and take pictures of pretty girls. all it takes is cheap equipment, a "striped down" b/w aesthetic, a trained eye to see light, the ability to make a girl feel relaxed, and PRACTICE and CONFIDENCE and THE PROFESSIONALISM TO ASK HER OUT *AFTER* THE PHOTO SHOOT, NOT PAW AT HER *DURING* THE SHOOT.

trust me, i've been there with the anxiety over equipment. it's just an excuse to not "be ready" to shoot beautiful girls until you have all the equipment you need. it's a crutch. it's a shield. it's just like that drink that the beta holds up to his chest at a party.

you don't need that crutch! i have shot really hot girls with my 6mp nikon d40. i even had one girl say to me, "oh the d40, i have that camera" -- screw her! she may have the camera too, but she didn't know how to use it like i did.

yes, i now have canon full frame, but i took my instructor's advice. start with a simple camera. focus on seeing light. focus on making the girl feel relaxed. a camera that is too complex will only distract you and fuck you up.

Post: #45

Where full frame really shines is when your trying to do fast paced candid photos in low light environments. A bar, candle light, city streets at night and so on. If your doing what rivelino is suggesting, working with natural sunlight with a model who can stand still, then you definitely do not need the full frame.

You might want to buy full frame lenses although, unless your getting the awesome Nikon 35mm f/1.8

Post: #46

Hey Rivelino
I was just wondering do you have to write up any contracts with the girls saying you are keeping their photos etc....?
Just in case they have 2nd thoughts later down the track or change of mind.
What is the best way to cover yourself legally when dealing with photographing girls?

Post: #47

great question. by law, the photographer always owns the pictures, never the model, but it's a good habit to have her sign a standard model release. just don't call it a contract. tell her she just needs to sign "this form". it's a form. it's casual. no big deal. if she has never signed one before, look at her like she's an amateur and not a professional. be skeptical. "oh, you've never signed one before? it's just a form that all models have to sign." you are the professional, being professional, she is the newbie pretending to be a model.

here's a link:

http://www.reedservices.com/adlt_rel.txt

Post: #48

MODEL RELEASE

In consideration of my engagement as a model, and for other good and
valuable consideration herein acknowledged as received, I hereby
grant to ____________ ("Photographer"), his/her heirs, legal
representatives and assigns, those for whom Photographer is acting,
and those acting with his/her authority, and permission, the
irrevocable and unrestricted right and permission to copyright, in
his/her own name or otherwise, and use, re-use, publish, and
re-publish photographic portraits or pictures of me or in which I may
be included, in whole or in part, or composite or distorted in
character or form, without restriction as to changes or alterations,
in conjunction with my own or a fictitious name, or reproductions
thereof in color or otherwise, made through any medium at his/her
studios or elsewhere, and in any and all media now or hereafter known
for illustration, promotion, art, editorial, advertising, trade, or
any other purpose whatsoever. I also consent to the use of any
printed matter in conjunction therewith.

I hereby waive any right that I may have to inspect or approve the
finished product or products and the advertising copy or other matter
that may be used in connection therewith or the use to which it may
be applied.

I hereby release, discharge and agree to save harmless Photographer,
his/her heirs, legal representatives and assigns, and all persons
acting under his/her permission or authority or those for whom he/she
is acting, from any liability by virtue of any blurring, distortion,
alteration, optical illusion, or use in composite form, whether
intentional or otherwise, that may occur or be produced in the taking
of said picture or in any subsequent processing thereof, as well as
any publication thereof, including without limitation any claims for
libel or invasion of privacy.

I hereby warrant that I am of full age and have the right to contract
in my own name. I have read the above authorization, release, and
agreement, prior to its execution, and I am fully familiar with the
contents thereof. This release shall be binding upon me and my
heirs, legal representatives, and assigns.


_____________________________________________________________________



_________________________________ __________________________________
DATE NAME


________________________________ __________________________________
WITNESS ADDRESS

Post: #49

(06-28-2013 05:53 AM)rivelino Wrote:  great question. by law, the photographer always owns the pictures, never the model, but it's a good habit to have her sign a standard model release. just don't call it a contract. tell her she just needs to sign "this form". it's a form. it's casual. no big deal. if she has never signed one before, look at her like she's an amateur and not a professional. be skeptical. "oh, you've never signed one before? it's just a form that all models have to sign." you are the professional, being professional, she is the newbie pretending to be a model.

here's a link:

http://www.reedservices.com/adlt_rel.txt

Many thanks Rivelino!!!
Just for peace of mind.

Post: #50

Too bad rivelino got clipped.

For the people that have done this ie BoneDaddy etc:

What are the odds that the Model comes with an "escort" or friend ie boyfriend etc?

Is it common or rare?

Any ways that you lessen the chances?