Post: #26

Thanks OGNorCal707. Your post is such a high compliment that I am almost embarrassed but it's good to hear it Yes, I am a big believer that it all begins within our minds. That the right mindset is where everything begins so that is always my focus. But really guys, why do I post on here? I look around me at my friends and the guys I know and they are hurting. It's really rough out there for the majority of guys. And as soup pointed out, even for the ones with money and status.

@soup You have dedicated a lot of time and energy to learning about women. I always ask a guy complaining about women: how many years have you spent studying for your career? And how many hours have you spent studying about women? And yes, that is a good description: a mutant.

Post: #27

The same approach 'line' will have completely different results based on HOW (FRAME) it was said. Seems obvious but nicely highlighted by Nomad here.

Chris Rock gives a good example of Frame @ 10:13. the whole stand-up is great

Post: #28

If the original post helps other guys then that's great. My last post was coming from personal experience.. several years ago I used to post a LOT on the PUA forums. I was a really fucking weird/off guy. I'd read articles like this and get the sense that they would actually help me get laid (not to say that this article isn't helping people). Deep down I knew that they weren't. I used to think to myself "when I get better I'll be able to post articles like this." The only reason I even wanted to post stuff like this was to get validation.. Validation from other members on a forum- something that I knew would never help me get laid. A lot of guys get too hung up on the community stuff, and it's really not serving them whatsoever. In fact, it's usually making them weird and unable to relate to most people.

I used to be really hardcore about the pick up community. Ironically it's when I stopped thinking about community related stuff that I started to get laid more. A lot of community guys would SERIOUSLY benefit from stepping away from the community for a few years. The single biggest thing that helped me improve my life was when I stopped identifying myself as a "community" guy and stepped away from this shit for a while. I'm not trying to bash Nomad77 or anything for his post, but what I'm saying is true.. deep down you know if you're trying to get validation or not. If you're genuinely trying to help out other guys then that's great, but if you're making posts just to get rep points or some bullshit that doesn't matter in the real world, then you should reevaluate your life.

Post: #29

(06-15-2013 08:21 PM)travolta Wrote:  If the original post helps other guys then that's great... The only reason I even wanted to post stuff like this was to get validation.. Validation from other members on a forum- something that I knew would never help me get laid... deep down you know if you're trying to get validation or not. If you're genuinely trying to help out other guys then that's great, but if you're making posts just to get rep points or some bullshit that doesn't matter in the real world, then you should reevaluate your life.

I agree with these parts of your post, you do make some good points.

Post: #30

i have always thought that FRAME = GAME. or game = frame. The whole point of game is to create frame...the whole point of frame is that it games.

Like an Ouroboros tail.

(06-02-2013 05:09 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Before I knew anything about Game I was getting a lot of girls, more than I do now. So looking back what did I have back then that was doing this? I had something that's talked about a lot but very few really understand: I had a very good Frame. For whatever reason I had this unshakeable belief that I was entitled to hot girls, actually the very best girls, and I just acted accordingly. I never questioned this, regardless of how I looked in person.

Frame is your internal view and beliefs about yourself - as in Frame of mind.

The stronger your frame the more likely someone will accept it. Doesn't mean that everyone will but there will be a lot of women that will. Then I started learning about Game and for various reasons my Frame became weak. And guess what? My success rate fell.

The best Game cannot compensate for a weak Frame.

It has literally taken me years to rebuild my Frame and I am almost as good (~ 70%) as I was when I was younger and once again I am seeing the results. I am not saying that Game is not necessary or beneficial. What I am saying is that Game rest upon your Frame. To get the best results you need to combine the two BUT in my experience IF you have a strong enough Frame you almost don't need any Game.

As my Frame became stronger I found that women were the ones Gaming me. I just had to show up, express an interest, and don't fuck up too much (the Game part). The concept of Frame also applies to all other areas of your life.

Believing you are Entitled to something is 50% of getting it.

PS The thing that did the most damage to my Frame was buying into the American belief that you define yourself by what you do (your job) and the shit you own e.g. your car.

Post: #31

@travolta Ok, let's get real. Last night I while I was waiting for my date to show up I was just walking around the place checking it out. As I past the hottest woman in there she started checking me out, giving me some serious IOIs. Today I was in a supermarket turned a corner and almost ran into this hot Latin girl, she looked up at me and smiled and was giving me some serious eye contact. In neither of these situations, did I say one word to these women. I wasn't dressed up or stood out in any obvious way. In essence there was no Game at play here. So what was it that was getting these women attention? Just because you don't understand a concept doesn't invalidate it. I am sure you do not understand how the Theory of Relativity work either. Does that make it useless? Some guys are going to get the concept of Frame others won't. We all learn in our own way and time. Some people have a very hard time with abstract concepts. They need and want a recipe: step 1, do this. Step 2, do this. Step 3, ...

But again, the only thing that matters, is the results. As my Frame improves I am seeing the results. Higher quality women are beginning to open me and give me IOIs without me doing anything. And this is all that matters. If you are happy with the results you are getting now then great. But don't bash something you don't understand or don't work for you because you don't know how to use it. Also, don't assume I or anyone else is operating from your motives. None of us, including you, write a single word on here not expecting some sense of validation or community approval. And why do you, Roosh, or any guy on here run around fucking a bunch of women you don't really care about? Are you doing it because you just love sex or are you doing it to validate yourself? (Notches are just another way to validate yourself.)

So to accuse me or anyone else of that is pointless. The only thing that should matter is the whether the information works in the real world and if it is of benefit to anyone.

"You must learn a new way to Think before you can master a new way to Be."

One thing I can agree with you on 100% is to get off of the forum and into the real world to apply the information from here. Until you put into practice knowledge, it's useless.

Post: #32

@BlondeBeastMan Frame and Game are two very different concepts. Frame is how you think of yourself. Game are the strategy and tactics you use to get women e.g. can I use your bathroom to get into a girl's apartment. For example, working out improves your Frame. You will feel better about yourself. Approaching a 100 women will improve your Game because you will become more comfortable approaching women.

Post: #33

Nomad77, are there any concrete steps you can take to improve your frame?

Post: #34

@speeddemon That's a very good question and honestly I would have to think about what I have been doing. The two most obvious things I can tell you are:

1. Stop rating women. The moment you rate a woman. You are putting her on a pedestal. Women should fall into one of two categories: those you want and those you don't - that's it. The moment you say to yourself a woman is an 8. You have now communicated to yourself that one she is better than a lot of other girls and that she may be better than you. Then when you interact with her you will sub-communicate this to her, that you think she's better than other women. You should treat all women equally or at least think of them as such.

2. Women/people are different not better or worse than others. Keep telling yourself that you an are entitled to any woman. That none of them is intrinsically better than you. This also helps to remove prejudices you have about women. The moment you tag a woman as Latin, European, American etc. you create a prejudice in your mind about how she is suppose to be. Forget about where they are from or what race they are. Before a woman is anything else, she is a woman first. Think of women in terms of women not nationalities and races. (The day I stopped thinking of Latin women as Latin. My success with them improved dramatically.) Approach women from the mindset that I am a man and you are woman - that's it. Everything else, is just some makeup social constructs BS. Throw all of it out, and you deprive a woman of her greatest defenses.

The point of all of this is simply to level the playing field. If you can't start out believing that you and the woman are equals then you are already starting the game with a serious handicap/disadvantage.

Forget about notches, game, and all this stuff. Frame comes to down to who you are as man. So ask yourself, this question: what kind of man do I want to be? First work on being this man and the women that are attracted to this kind of man will follow.

Post: #35

(06-16-2013 01:20 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  @speeddemon That's a very good question and honestly I would have to think about what I have been doing. The two most obvious things I can tell you are:

1. Stop rating women. The moment you rate a woman. You are putting her on a pedestal. Women should fall into one of two categories: those you want and those you don't - that's it. The moment you say to yourself a woman is an 8. You have now communicated to yourself that one she is better than a lot of other girls and that she may be better than you. Then when you interact with her you will sub-communicate this to her, that you think she's better than other women. You should treat all women equally or at least think of them as such.

2. Women/people are different not better or worse than others. Keep telling yourself that you an are entitled to any woman. That none of them is intrinsically better than you. This also helps to remove prejudices you have about women. The moment you tag a woman as Latin, European, American etc. you create a prejudice in your mind about how she is suppose to be. Forget about where they are from or what race they are. Before a woman is anything else, she is a woman first. Think of women in terms of women not nationalities and races. (The day I stopped thinking of Latin women as Latin. My success with them improved dramatically.) Approach women from the mindset that I am a man and you are woman - that's it. Everything else, is just some makeup social constructs BS. Throw all of it out, and you deprive a woman of her greatest defenses.

The point of all of this is simply to level the playing field. If you can't start out believing that you and the woman are equals then you are already starting the game with a serious handicap/disadvantage.

Forget about notches, game, and all this stuff. Frame comes to down to who you are as man. So ask yourself, this question: what kind of man do I want to be? First work on being this man and the women that are attracted to this kind of man will follow.

+1

Great post and suggestions. Will implement soon.

Post: #36

Here is another way to think of it, why are children and animals so effective at getting through to women? Because they are completely unaware of their social status and beauty. A child or dog do not know how beautiful a woman is or if she is wearing a Gucci outfit. For both of them she is just a woman and they treat her as such - no different than any other woman.

My goal when it comes to Frame is to be like a child or dog when it comes to women. Of course you will never be able to be this way but the closer you come to it the more effective you will be. You also want to express your sexuality the same way a child or animal does - apologetically.

The most important thing about Frame is understanding that you have to work on training your mind the same way you work on improving your body or any gaming skill.