Post: #1

Yo guys,

Currently i am reading "the game" and i finished "bang" a year ago. I have read also other books about gaming, body language (useful) etc... I like all theory stuff about gaming, but doesn't it all come to down in the approach to some basics:

* Confidence
* your style of clothing ( the way you look )
* Being able to have interesting conversation / social skills.

Maybe i'm a bit critical, but sometimes i think a lot guys make it a bigger deal than it actually is. Taking classes and seminars, Peacocking, Neuro-linguistic bullshitting and whatever kind of things.

What's your opinion about this?

Post: #2

I agree with you that some people take it to another level, but you have to remember the people who go through with training, who learn NLP, etc they usually have certain social hangups that can't be fixed when someone tells them "just look good, feel good, and it will all work out".

A lot of the techniques, while some go overboard and others try to deal with pseudo-scientifically, have helped a ton of guys get out of their shells... I'm presuming.

I still think the best way to learn (anything, really) is to hang out with people better than you. Reading only takes you so far.

Post: #3

Here's the deal. All PUA's can do is try to describe the world as it is. They cannot change how women are seduced. They can only construct theories. And, considering how stupid the average PUA is, the vast majority of PUA theories suck ass.

Therefore, almost everything out there is bullshit, and I mean it, DeAngelo, Style, Tyler Durden (although his AMOG destroyer's work) the 1000's of wannabe PUA's... trash.

For a new guy starting out, the only things he needs to read are:

1. Mystery Method (or Roissy's entire blog, start to finish... some guys may enjoy this more, as Roissy is a good writer).
2. Love System's Routine Manual's (just so you have something to stammer while your social brain adapts)

Do 100 approaches, then read:

3. Bang (the most helpful guide for getting around logistics, as Roosh was (is?) a poor schmuck like the rest of us).

That's it. The rest is in practice, everything you need to know comes from the field. All pickup is just an understanding of female psychology. And it will come do you if you do enough approaches, as your subconscious mind will slowly conform to the realities of women. It's like learning anything else.

Post: #4

Your not leaving much room for guys to leave an opinion without countering your recommendations flat out.

I couldn't disagree more with the above general discount of almost every PUA, and the specific endorsements.

I do agree that there is a lot of BS out there, and a lot of trash. But to say that the Mystery Method is what new guys need, while flat out discrediting everyone else, is misleading him greatly, imo. I'm not familiar with the love system routine manuals.

Real naturals don't do anything remotely resembling the Mystery Method.

I'm of the opinion that guys should aim to where they ultimately want to be from the beginning, and not dick around with some kind of 'method' and then decide later that they want to change it up completely and get more advanced. Go for the advanced stuff right away, and work on integrating it into your personality from the beginning. It takes time. Don't fuck yourself up by learning how to entertain and peacock girls into bed, unless you need practice socializing in general. If thats the case, learn how to entertain, but don't expect girls to fall into bed with you on a regular basis, as I think it will breed bad habits if thats what you train yourself to do when your trying to lay a girl.

Tyler Durden writes a lot of good inner game stuff. There is no way that his AMOG counters, or whatever, are his best contribution. Style isn't even a real PUA. I agree that De'Angelo's stuff is limited for much else other than motivation and some marginally funny/confident lines.

I've made my recommendations elsewhere in other threads and recently, and so wont make them again here for risk of it seeming like I'm constantly plugging other guys stuff. But there is stuff way beyond mystery method, and a lot of other guys stuff which covers different aspects of 'game' that a guy needs to sharpen.

Post: #5

Some take it too far. If Roosh was one of them then I doubt many people would be posting here.

Really, some PUA types get caught up on things like having the most cutting edge negs and defusing the hot new shit tests, when picking up chicks (like most everything in life) is really 90% fundamentals and 10% aquired knowledge.

Tha Fundamentals:

Confidence, Approaching, Masculinity, Body Language, Humor, Style.

Post: #6

Yeah, I agree with the original poster that it all comes down to confidence and dressing well.

But to say that pick up stuff doesn't work is not true. There may be a skewed cause and effect relationship, but it still works. For example a geek, who has been doing badly with women all his life, may stumble upon some PU-Bible and then thnik 'omg, I can actually get better at this'. Then he'll read it and fieldtest it, and because of the bible, actually feel more confident and pull more chicks. He is not getting better because of the routines in themselves, but is actually doing better because of his new found confidence.

For most people out there, the idea that they can improve in this field is already out of their reality, so I'd say that guys like Mystery (although he is a freak) have a justification.

On the other hand I'd say that guys like Tyler Durden, Johnny Soporno, David Deida have some valuable insights in the male-female dynamics.

Just check out the free material on rsdnation.com (like Tyler's new video about being irreverent), it is pretty advanced stuff.

Post: #7

Hydro,

All I meant is what is sufficient to get into the game; not what is necessary. The three items I listed are the bare minimum, which, for the average guy who hates hard work and reading, is all he needs.

Of course you may find some useful things in other PUA's... because when you write about everything like these guys do, you are bound to hit a few gems of truth in between the piles of bullshit.


The number one thing a man needs to learn game is practice; give him a few basic tracts to give a gist of what's going on and then he's good to go. And the three items I listed is everything someone needs to start. Mystery Method and Routines work as training wheels; after he understands what the method and routines are trying to accomplish, he can move beyond them fairly quickly and be on his own. Once he grasps the basics he may find other PUA's to be useful. But I wouldn't start with other PUA stuff because it's more likely to put bad ideas into his head and distract him from reality.

Post: #8

Tha Fundamentals:

Confidence, Approaching, Masculinity, Body Language, Humor, Style.
[/quote]

I agree, I truly believe that these fundamentals is all you need in the game...

I have a good example of a ex-worker at our company. He had to explain me about the work he did, so i'll could take over when he was on vacation. So after a while it became a more social talk. He was the first to tell me about pick-up artists and the whole world behind it. He was a true believer of all the theories. He took a plane to chicago for a seminar of david d. angelo...read all the stuff about seducing etcetc....
I was a bit critical about it, but he truly believed it was the only way to get the girl you wanted.

After a while i ran into him in my local bar and he was with another douchebag drinking some beers and "sarging" for the local girls. The style of both of them was goofy and not really up-to-date. It was obvious in the hole bar/dancing: these guys are really pathetic. I was with my crew and i am lucky to be surrounded with the popular people/ girls in my life. These douchebags stood there and watched me dancing and making fun with 7s and 8s and maybe higher.

And this guy (the real pick-up fanatic) told me all the stories about how many girls he had etcetc and had a really big mouth dating and fucking 2 girls at the same time. There was a party of my company and he walked in with the two girls and the girls were below 5s (just 2 ugly fatties)

Final conclusion: first you have to get the fundamentals and basics of a interesting guy and then it can be helpful to know some theory about pick-up. Not the other way around.

Post: #9

Quote:

(07-29-2010 06:30 AM)Hunterdoingfieldresearch Wrote:  Tha Fundamentals:

Confidence, Approaching, Masculinity, Body Language, Humor, Style.

I agree, I truly believe that these fundamentals is all you need in the game...

I have a good example of a ex-worker at our company. He had to explain me about the work he did, so i'll could take over when he was on vacation. So after a while it became a more social talk. He was the first to tell me about pick-up artists and the whole world behind it. He was a true believer of all the theories. He took a plane to chicago for a seminar of david d. angelo...read all the stuff about seducing etcetc....
I was a bit critical about it, but he truly believed it was the only way to get the girl you wanted.

After a while i ran into him in my local bar and he was with another douchebag drinking some beers and "sarging" for the local girls. The style of both of them was goofy and not really up-to-date. It was obvious in the hole bar/dancing: these guys are really pathetic. I was with my crew and i am lucky to be surrounded with the popular people/ girls in my life. These douchebags stood there and watched me dancing and making fun with 7s and 8s and maybe higher.

And this guy (the real pick-up fanatic) told me all the stories about how many girls he had etcetc and had a really big mouth dating and fucking 2 girls at the same time. There was a party of my company and he walked in with the two girls and the girls were below 5s (just 2 ugly fatties)

Final conclusion: first you have to get the fundamentals and basics of a interesting guy and then it can be helpful to know some theory about pick-up. Not the other way around.

I know when I first started learning and applying game teachings and I saw how well they worked, I did get a little obsessed with it and all of its teachings, but who among us didn't?

I never shelled out 2 g's for a bootcamp or anything like that (that's just wack, details below), but I read over and over and over everything about it. It really got to the point where I was thinking more about the principles than the end results.

While knowing a few tricks comes in handy, getting too deep into it will make you fall apart micromanaging your interactions with women, which isn't what you want to do.

As I mentioned, 90/10 fundamentals/learned knowledge. The guy who is confident, assertive, approaches often, dresses well, can make girls laugh and stands like a man but fails shit tests and doesn't ever employ things like negs and asshole game will get a lot better results than the guy who window-dresses his inability to be any of those things with a sharp tongue and a knowledge of theory.

That's really my problem with bootcamps and field days and the like. Getting good with women isn't something you can do in a day, it takes probably about a year of learning game plus some image management and a little bit of self-actualization to get it done.

But of course, the fundamentals down + a few good standby negs, a dose of assholery and adequate knowledge of the theory is crisp money.

Post: #10

It's all a numbers game at the end of the day. A fat, ugly guy with no game will still get laid if he's approaching girls constantly. Thus, any method, blog, bootcamp, pherenome, pea cocking, gimmick etc...will work if you approach enough girls.

Post: #11

Dude you're so right. I was just thinking about this the other day. Just go out, talk to girls and hint at sex until it happens. Every now and then when you run into a roadblock you need some theory from a book, but too much analysis makes you over-think yourself. But I think a lot of "PUA's" out there have just stumbled onto a new market. It's about money man.

Post: #12

David D I give props to simply for his "Attraction is not a choice" theory. That was a critical realization for me.

As for Mystery Method, while I'm sure it works it reads so dry and complicated, I think it actually would be a set back for most new guys. And do you really want to "peacock" like a clown?

For any new guy I would recommend the entry level David D book, for "attraction is not a choice" and cocky-funny. Then the Brent podcasts, first 6 or so, for mindset. Then Rob Brinded's "Code of the Natural" for help with body language. The rest is practice.

It's nice to see the PUA community is actually evolving from the routines to a more "natural" flowing style of pickup.

Post: #13

I guess people overthink too much and forget of being natural, and nothing happens. Then, instead of chill they still look for more answers and goes around...

Post: #14

(08-01-2010 10:35 PM)thekiller Wrote:  David D I give props to simply for his "Attraction is not a choice" theory. That was a critical realization for me.

As for Mystery Method, while I'm sure it works it reads so dry and complicated, I think it actually would be a set back for most new guys. And do you really want to "peacock" like a clown?

For any new guy I would recommend the entry level David D book, for "attraction is not a choice" and cocky-funny. Then the Brent podcasts, first 6 or so, for mindset. Then Rob Brinded's "Code of the Natural" for help with body language. The rest is practice.

It's nice to see the PUA community is actually evolving from the routines to a more "natural" flowing style of pickup.

I agree. David D has some great material. You won't learn anything about the actual art of pick up, but if you are an AFC, he will do wonders for getting your inner game shit together, which is the very first step. It was like a complete mind fuck when I stumbled across his stuff and I never saw the world the same after.

I do think the canned material is on the way out. If for any reason because women have become hip to it.

Post: #15

(07-27-2010 05:28 AM)Hunterdoingfieldresearch Wrote:  Yo guys,

Currently i am reading "the game" and i finished "bang" a year ago. I have read also other books about gaming, body language (useful) etc... I like all theory stuff about gaming, but doesn't it all come to down in the approach to some basics:

* Confidence
* your style of clothing ( the way you look )
* Being able to have interesting conversation / social skills.

Maybe i'm a bit critical, but sometimes i think a lot guys make it a bigger deal than it actually is. Taking classes and seminars, Peacocking, Neuro-linguistic bullshitting and whatever kind of things.

What's your opinion about this?

I think you are right on the money...but if it gives some guys the confidence to approach a woman that they otherwise wouldn't it is overall a good thing I think.

I've seen guys that took Karate their whole lives and still can't fight worth a damn but at least they can flight. jajaja

And then some guys are born serious ass kickers.

Post: #16

I look at the game much like i would any other sport. Take tennis.

Each skill in your arsenal, such as slice, topspin, net game, serving, is like a different idea of pick up. The problem is, if you spend your whole time thinking about it, you are going to fuck up badly, as you will be far too distracted that even a chump with only an average understanding can kick your ass, provided he is able to put less thought into his game. You need to get to the point of being able to implement your skills with very little thought. And just like in sports, everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses. In tennis i have a killer serve, but i am terrible at net game. Tailor your style of game to what you are naturally good at, and learn to cover your bases, but in the end, what works for you is your own personal style of game, and no one is gonna teach you that.

So yes, it is far over-analyzed, and overrated, but at the same time, it gives guys an excuse to go out and find their own game.

Post: #17

(07-27-2010 09:59 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  Real naturals don't do anything remotely resembling the Mystery Method.

Agreed. 100%.

Mixx

Post: #18

Yeah I agree with Hydro here too.

I also agree with the general idea of the main poster. While helping out one night a week in a bar in a very popular area for yuppies mid 20's early 30's crowd, I witnessed a ton of rehearsed pick ups and corn ball shit that convinced me that allot of these guys were missing the overall point. I would most often see or over hear the cock-funny thing going way to far with a nerdy gay looking guy totally putting out an asshole vibe trying way too hard. The next was dudes doing silly magic tricks (sometimes 2 guys doing the same type of trick in the same night) and very uncomfortable/unnatural approaches. Then of course I saw some oddly dressed "mystery" types of guys with canes or funny hats etc.

I firmly believe that the overall postivie outcome you can pull from learning some game
- 1 to have confidence.
- to own your own look, know what looks good but don't be a follower
- keep your masculinity (this is hard for a lot of guys today because they've been told for so long to be sensitive and caring not manly and aggressive)
- Learn a few tricks about attraction and women and just go practice, get comfortable and have fun.