Post: #1

This has been my goal for the past year. I can already get consistent notches with mediocre girls but have been trying to get into willowy models.

From where I am right now, I believe that there are probably many different approaches to get the finer girls. I welcome those approaches in this thread. This first post is based on my experience with trying to push into higher quality.

Disclaimer: I'm not banging models left and right yet. But, my good bangs are much more attractive than what they used to be.

You have to learn the rules of the game in order to play.

To bang any type of girl, you have to have a very strong understanding of where they are coming from. I see game as just a way of learning to talk to women. All these different types of girls speak different languages, so to speak. I've noticed that game needs to be translated. You just use fattie speak on a model, and visa versa.

I believe that you can't enjoy the subtle differences in good booze, a genre of music, or food if you don't understand it's language. For example, a lot of jazz used to just sound the same to me: "Jazz". It wasn't until I started listening to it extensively that I was really able to appreciate what was happening and be able to discern the good from the bad etc.

I've had this is experience with game in general. I used to see girls as these mystical creatures, and couldn't really get the subtle differences in quality. Sure, I could distinguish between general hot and not, but I would often round up and give a lot of girls much more value than they actually had because, in a lot of ways, I bought into what society told me about women.

This is why you can't just expect to get with higher quality girls if you limit yourself to 5-7s. Unless you understand what the 8-9s are trying to say, you are taking a shot in the dark.

So, how is it possible to learn the different languages?

It starts with immersion and observation.

To get into Jazz, I listened to it non-stop. It's now at a point where I like a lot of tracks that I used to not like just because I've listened to them so much and they've become a part of my nostalgia. But, it wasn't until I actually tried to learn how to play jazz that I really got into it. Same thing with art: I didn't really get Michelangelo's art until I went to Florence and actually tried drawing his sculptures.

So, you can stand around and look at pretty girls all day, but if you are not interacting with them, you will never really get them.

Put yourself in a position where you are surrounded by them. Do not do this with the intention of macking on them, but just an observer. Be the beta, get in their friendzone. Do this with a lot of models. Watch how they operate. Hang out with them. Build your understanding of them to a point where if you had to take an SAT on fine girls, you'd score 1600 (or whatever the top score is now). In the meantime, bang lesser quality girls to get your rocks off and relieve your libido*

Get a job that puts you in a position of having to deal with them directly- maybe a photographers assistant, or anything that will get you close to the fashion, film/acting, stripper world. Become a bus boy at a high-end club. Just make sure that you are in a position where you can at least watch, and possibly interact with them. Build "friendships"**

In my case, I started collaborating on music with one. I realize now that one is not enough, and am making a greater effort to organize my life so that I will be around more of them.

Start hanging out with these girls. AS A FRIEND. Don't try to put any moves on them. You want them to feel safe around you. You can use them as pivots to get into high-end clubs.

By surrounding yourself with beautiful women, you are increasing your own level of comfort and pre-selection to a point where other girls of that quality are going to see you with these girls and start to, at the very least, wonder about who you are. Things are going to start happening in a kind of organic way. There will be no rejection because rejection is not built into the equation; if anything, you will be the one doing the rejecting.

This is just a general, starting approach. The exact details are going to vary based on which path you decide to take.

----------

Also, you can start making money off of them as well (which makes sense because this approach is a huge time investment) I can't find it right now, but McQueen did an excellent post on craigslist promoter/model game.

*btw, I think this mindset will help you seem aloof to both types of girls, because your focus isn't on directly on them, but on something you see as more valuable, and you don't care about any one particular woman.

** There is no such thing a true friendship between a man and a woman.

Post: #2

Good post soup. Thanks for the compliment.

I have a 2-Part article coming out on http://www.returnofkings.com within the next week re: this but in relation to clubs. My last article on there dealt with this and bottle service getting you the top-tier girls, but I understand alot of cats don't/won't spend the $ on that, so this next 2 part installment is structured for getting a club on lock and having a consistent stream of hotass model types.

Post: #3

(05-10-2013 10:43 PM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  Good post soup. Thanks for the compliment.

I have a 2-Part article coming out on http://www.returnofkings.com within the next week re: this but in relation to clubs. My last article on there dealt with this and bottle service getting you the top-tier girls, but I understand alot of cats don't/won't spend the $ on that, so this next 2 part installment is structured for getting a club on lock and having a consistent stream of hotass model types.

I couldn't find the link to your post. Can you add it here? Thanks.

Post: #4

/thread-20495.html

Post: #5

(05-10-2013 09:10 PM)soup Wrote:  Put yourself in a position where you are surrounded by them.

I don't really know how one accomplishes this.

WIA

Post: #6

I can't really seem to explain it concretely as I'm pretty tired now...but back in high school, I'd essentially for the most part be stuck in the friend zone.

In college, I'd start off being the friend zone with random chicks resulting in friend zone lays. However, that number could have been higher had I possessed better game and more situational awareness..etc etc.

But what I can explain is constantly being around hot girls even "as a friend" does indeed work. Mix in alcohol, constant interaction, happy hour venting, time like say at your or her place...and things can escalate.

Great reminder on fundamental basics we tend to take for granted Soup.

(05-10-2013 11:52 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-10-2013 09:10 PM)soup Wrote:  Put yourself in a position where you are surrounded by them.

I don't really know how one accomplishes this.

WIA

Depending on the American city you're in, you could join professional networking groups, sports leagues for young professionals, fun pub crawls etc etc. Perhaps even community service could work, haha. Get involved out there.

Lot of these groups or meetings are held in "trendy spots" at least here in DFW area so while you're technically there to "hang" with your group, there will be other crowds, hot chicks, etc you could naturally drift into a conversation with.

Post: #7

(05-11-2013 12:02 AM)yb13 Wrote:  I can't really seem to explain it concretely as I'm pretty tired now...but back in high school, I'd essentially for the most part be stuck in the friend zone.

In college, I'd start off being the friend zone with random chicks resulting in friend zone lays. However, that number could have been higher had I possessed better game and more situational awareness..etc etc.

But what I can explain is constantly being around hot girls even "as a friend" does indeed work. Mix in alcohol, constant interaction, happy hour venting, time like say at your or her place...and things can escalate.

Great reminder on fundamental basics we tend to take for granted Soup.

(05-10-2013 11:52 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-10-2013 09:10 PM)soup Wrote:  Put yourself in a position where you are surrounded by them.

I don't really know how one accomplishes this.

WIA

Depending on the American city you're in, you could join professional networking groups, sports leagues for young professionals, fun pub crawls etc etc. Perhaps even community service could work, haha. Get involved out there.

Lot of these groups or meetings are held in "trendy spots" at least here in DFW area so while you're technically there to "hang" with your group, there will be other crowds, hot chicks, etc you could naturally drift into a conversation with.

I don't think you totally get what I'm trying to say: You aren't hoping to get lucky and bang these "friend" girls that you start hanging with; you want to just watch how they are. You can learn and get pre-selection from them.

You don't want to let them cry on your shoulder etc. but just go out at night with them to clubs etc. with no agenda to bang them.

Post: #8

(05-11-2013 12:02 AM)yb13 Wrote:  

(05-10-2013 11:52 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-10-2013 09:10 PM)soup Wrote:  Put yourself in a position where you are surrounded by them.

I don't really know how one accomplishes this.

WIA

Depending on the American city you're in, you could join professional networking groups, sports leagues for young professionals, fun pub crawls etc etc. Perhaps even community service could work, haha. Get involved out there.

Lot of these groups or meetings are held in "trendy spots" at least here in DFW area so while you're technically there to "hang" with your group, there will be other crowds, hot chicks, etc you could naturally drift into a conversation with.

I go to all that stuff. You're never surrounded by 8's and 9's. Which is why I pointed it out with the quote.

The ability to go out and do what OP is saying is difficult because groupings of 8's and 9's to observe and befriend are rare.

WIA

Post: #9

I am also curious where one goes to be able to friend 8's and 9's. Access to these girls seems to be the hardest part.

Back when I worked in restaurants it was easy to make friends and bang co-workers because talent usually finds itself in the hospitality industry.

Seems like work is the best place for it if you don't give a shit about your job.

Post: #10

(05-10-2013 11:52 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-10-2013 09:10 PM)soup Wrote:  Put yourself in a position where you are surrounded by them.

I don't really know how one accomplishes this.

WIA

move to Russia?

Post: #11

Suppose you are in the USA --- find a job you say --- I heard it was hard to get into anything there....let alone get into a dream job with hotties even if it is low pay.

Maybe get into retail but then you are "low status" compared to almost anyone else in society.

If you are actually in a economically hot spot like I am --- I'm finding a lot of immigrant workers have to be used to fill positions of the "hired gun". In my city all the baristas are immigrants but again if you are into that sort of thing then I guess it is ok!

I tried something similar in health clubs and aerobics classes but out of 25 only about 2 or 3 might pass the boner test --- really this is about the statistical average in the population. Most of them are old ladies and the hotties only show up for one class then they disappear. I guess keeping fit is hard work and the hotties tend to flake out on it. I've been to yoga classes where the only hottie is the instructor!

One fallacy in the thinking by the OP is that it assumes that hotties "always" have hottie friends but in most cases it's just a bunch of fat/ugly fan girls who hang with the HB just like how pilot fish hang with the sharks.

What I really hate is when you try to do that pre-selection thing and the girl brings along a guy frined --- now you end up bar hopping and sometimes looking like a beta loser because it's 2 guys one girl.

Post: #12

You guys are essentially asking the same question- how badly do I want to fuck quality women?

Your answer will inform you as to whether or not you need to relocate.

Either move to NY or LA.

This kind of high quality game is not for the lazy, amateur, or time-handicapped. If it was easy to do, every guy in America would be doing it.

You really have to have a burning passion to be with attractive women. So much so that you are willing to rearrange your entire life to make it happen.

I, for one, believe that it is a noble reason. This is for me. I'm betting that a lot of guys won't be able to get it.

Post: #13

(05-11-2013 02:33 AM)mymeowcat Wrote:  Suppose you are in the USA --- find a job you say --- I heard it was hard to get into anything there....let alone get into a dream job with hotties even if it is low pay.

Maybe get into retail but then you are "low status" compared to almost anyone else in society.

If you are actually in a economically hot spot like I am --- I'm finding a lot of immigrant workers have to be used to fill positions of the "hired gun". In my city all the baristas are immigrants but again if you are into that sort of thing then I guess it is ok!

I tried something similar in health clubs and aerobics classes but out of 25 only about 2 or 3 might pass the boner test --- really this is about the statistical average in the population. Most of them are old ladies and the hotties only show up for one class then they disappear. I guess keeping fit is hard work and the hotties tend to flake out on it. I've been to yoga classes where the only hottie is the instructor!

One fallacy in the thinking by the OP is that it assumes that hotties "always" have hottie friends but in most cases it's just a bunch of fat/ugly fan girls who hang with the HB just like how pilot fish hang with the sharks.

What I really hate is when you try to do that pre-selection thing and the girl brings along a guy frined --- now you end up bar hopping and sometimes looking like a beta loser because it's 2 guys one girl.

You are wrong. Models do not hang out with fat chicks. If you had any experience with them, you'd see this.

Post: #14

it's just that I find it time consuming to build friendships with girls and there aint much in common most of the time...I find it a waste of time. I mean, when was the last time a girl helped you do something or find a job compared to your male friends?

Post: #15

(05-11-2013 05:45 AM)soup Wrote:  You guys are essentially asking the same question- how badly do I want to fuck quality women?

Your answer will inform you as to whether or not you need to relocate.

Either move to NY or LA.

This kind of high quality game is not for the lazy, amateur, or time-handicapped. If it was easy to do, every guy in America would be doing it.

You really have to have a burning passion to be with attractive women. So much so that you are willing to rearrange your entire life to make it happen.

I, for one, believe that it is a noble reason. This is for me. I'm betting that a lot of guys won't be able to get it.

Either move to NY or LA.

^Exactly. Miami would be a wise 3rd choice. The 8's and 9's are out there in packs in these cities because I deal with them almost nightly.

I believe alot of guys get content when their sack is emptied on a 7's face and that's okay but their are a select few of us who desire the top-tier women and who are willing to put in the EXTRA effort required to attain them. No one's right or wrong here; it's just a matter of preference.

That being said...when you have a 9 on your cock your orgasm destroys that of one with a 7. Don't believe me? Try it.

Post: #16

(05-11-2013 06:00 AM)metalhaze Wrote:  it's just that I find it time consuming to build friendships with girls and there aint much in common most of the time...I find it a waste of time. I mean, when was the last time a girl helped you do something or find a job compared to your male friends?

Dude, I put "friendships" in quotes for a reason. If you still believe that you are in friendships with females, I suggest you banish yourself to the newbie archives here and on Heartiste for like a month. After you read everything there, you might realize that there is no such thing as friendship between man and woman. But, really, go find out for yourself.

Also, stop whining about time consuming. That is borderline trolling.

Post: #17

It is easier for me to get a girl that is 8+ than one below. The reason is that everything about me is geared towards appealing to these type of girls. Imagine you are a product, you can't create a product that will appeal equal well to two very different socio-economic group. You an always sell yourself down but it's difficult to sell yourself up. Ultimately, girls are always looking for their equal. Unless, they have a hidden defect that creates an internal sense of lower self-esteem then to get an 8+ girl she will have to view you as an 8+ guy. Getting an 8+ girl requires more than game, it requires a combination of attributes that collectively projects to them that you are in their class and thus worthy of their consideration.

It's basically a version of social class game. Interestingly enough, it appears that you and Roosh have arrived at the same place...

Post: #18

(05-22-2013 04:28 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  It is easier for me to get a girl that is 8+ than one below. The reason is that everything about me is geared towards appealing to these type of girls. Imagine you are a product, you can't create a product that will appeal equal well to two very different socio-economic group. You an always sell yourself down but it's difficult to sell yourself up. Ultimately, girls are always looking for their equal. Unless, they have a hidden defect that creates an internal sense of lower self-esteem then to get an 8+ girl she will have to view you as an 8+ guy. Getting an 8+ girl requires more than game, it requires a combination of attributes that collectively projects to them that you are in their class and thus worthy of their consideration.

It's basically a version of social class game. Interestingly enough, it appears that you and Roosh have arrived at the same place...

Girls say they are looking for their equal, but they are always looking for something that is better/stronger/stable/etc. than what they are.

Post: #19

Correct, equal or better. What helps me a lot with 8+ girls are two things:

1. I have a lot of experience interacting with beautiful women. I don't get nervous or star stuck around them.

2. I can usually pull rank on most of them based just on my intellect and experience e.g. I have grown up on three different continents and lived in different countries. I can also show photos of me and girls that are usually hotter than their are - social proof.

The irony of this is that it's actually very difficult for me to get an average girl because I have to ended up proving to her why I would be interested in her. When it comes to average girls my failure rate is actually very high and I would love to be able to fix it but I haven't been able to so far...

Post: #20

Soup, give us an example of an 8 or 9.

Post: #21

To me, an 8 is a girl that is attractive enough to make money based on her looks. The range of 8s start at the bottom with waitresses, bartenders (although they can be any where in the 8 range), and go up into actresses, go-go dancers, strippers, and models.

9s are the most attractive of these women and a get paid a lot of more money and are famous for their looks. This includes models you'd see in magazines and on billboards. A young Michelle Pffiefer or Debbie Harry is like a 9.5 to me. 9s can get infinitely close to 10, but they never will because 10s are fantasy.

Post: #22

(05-11-2013 12:02 AM)yb13 Wrote:  Depending on the American city you're in, you could join professional networking groups, sports leagues for young professionals, fun pub crawls etc etc. Perhaps even community service could work, haha. Get involved out there.

You think you can surround yourself with lots of "8s & 9s" by joining professional networking groups and pub crawls? I really don't think that is going to work.

Post: #23

(05-22-2013 12:09 PM)soup Wrote:  To me, an 8 is a girl that is attractive enough to make money based on her looks. The range of 8s start at the bottom with waitresses, bartenders (although they can be any where in the 8 range), and go up into actresses, go-go dancers, strippers, and models.

9s are the most attractive of these women and a get paid a lot of more money and are famous for their looks. This includes models you'd see in magazines and on billboards. A young Michelle Pffiefer or Debbie Harry is like a 9.5 to me. 9s can get infinitely close to 10, but they never will because 10s are fantasy.

I agree, and that is probably the simplest and best definition I have seen of these numbers. Keep in mind though that some 7s and occasionally below do make their way into occupations like cocktail waitresses or even flight attendants. They are usually heavily made up and have a chip on their shoulders compared to the genuine 8s.

9s can be newsreaders, actresses, higher-end models or girls who have sufficient looks that they could have pursued those things.

I'm a big believer in the value of the 1-10 scale, when it is correctly understood not as your personal view of a woman's hotness, but as an indicator of her standing in the social hierarchy. A 7 does have different beliefs and experiences than an 8 and game must reflect this.

Post: #24

You want 8s and 9s?

Start talking to 8s and 9s!

Alot of them!

You will get more comfortable with each interaction.

It takes a little while to get totally comfortable around really beautiful women.

You will learn that they are the same as everybody else, just better looking. Treat them the same as a 5 or 6.

Post: #25

soup, i like a lot of what you wrote on this thread. i am an art director and have been working on developing a system of "photography game". slowly i have been making progress, to the point that i finally fucked one of the girls i photographed, and fingered another one. these aren't real models, just amateur models, but still, i am getting better.

i actually wrote about this before here on RVF, about creating a quick, relatively easy and simple way of teaching photography game for those who are interested. knowing the basics of portrait photography is great way to meet 8s and 9s, and to offer them something of value.

i am going to see if i have time to work on this more. your post has inspired me.