Post: #1

http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/...-wins-out/

Read this funny article that confirms stereotypes of domineering Jewish mothers. This woman tells the man on their first date their kids will be raised Jewish. I know most of you all don't really care or have any religious orientation, but I feel in a household the man should have a say in his children's upbringing. I never bought in the interfaith family anyway, since most religions cancel out each other. They should call themselves Unitarians or something.

Post: #2

Another example of what happens when you mix a bossy bitch with a man who has no balls.

Post: #3

well that's judaism. its not a gender thing, its a faith thing. if the mother is jewish by decree of the torah the child must also be jewish.

Judaism is VERY patriarchal on the whole, but women get thrown a bone here or there. besides it's evolutionary darwinism for judaism: if the woman marries outside her faith, then the kid's got to be a jew too. that's a fucking great idea if you want a religion to grow (and old school men circa Moses came up with that idea to expand the faith).

Post: #4

(03-27-2013 03:03 PM)guerrilla Wrote:  well that's judaism. its not a gender thing, its a faith thing. if the mother is jewish by decree of the torah the child must also be jewish.

Judaism is VERY patriarchal on the whole, but women get thrown a bone here or there. besides it's evolutionary darwinism for judaism: if the woman marries outside her faith, then the kid's got to be a jew too. that's a fucking great idea if you want a religion to grow (and old school men circa Moses came up with that idea to expand the faith).

It doesn't matter. A man shouldn't be letting his woman decide his children's religion. It'd be like if your wife belonged to a religion which said the children had to take her maiden name, would that make it okay? Fuck no.

I know most men may not care these days, but one of the most basic aspects of having children is that a man gets to pass down his beliefs and values.

Post: #5

if you were jewish you wouldn't think that.

lets say you had a jewish daughter who married a christian, and your faith was important to you. of course you'd want the kid to be jewish as well. this is a trans-generational issue for the growth of a faith/community, and it transcends the "he said, she said" bullshit.

and circa Moses era, jews were always the minority so it makes perfect sense to say that God orders the daughter's child to be jewish in order to grow the religion. the philosophy behind this practice is bigger than gender roles, its about generational growth of a religion.

Post: #6

Religious upbringing for the child isn't really an issue and shouldn't be an issue of if a man or woman getting to chose, it's up for both parents to come up with a solution and agreement. Plus if the mother raises the child in a particular faith, there isn't anything stopping the man from doing the same.

Here in Canada there have been a few Supreme Court Cases that state that each parent has a say on the child's upbringing whether single or not, Young V. Young.

If a woman is preventing you from sharing your beliefs on your child simply go to court.

Post: #7

(03-27-2013 03:14 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 03:03 PM)guerrilla Wrote:  well that's judaism. its not a gender thing, its a faith thing. if the mother is jewish by decree of the torah the child must also be jewish.

Judaism is VERY patriarchal on the whole, but women get thrown a bone here or there. besides it's evolutionary darwinism for judaism: if the woman marries outside her faith, then the kid's got to be a jew too. that's a fucking great idea if you want a religion to grow (and old school men circa Moses came up with that idea to expand the faith).

It doesn't matter. A man shouldn't be letting his woman decide his children's religion. It'd be like if your wife belonged to a religion which said the children had to take her maiden name, would that make it okay? Fuck no.

I know most men may not care these days, but one of the most basic aspects of having children is that a man gets to pass down his beliefs and values.

The simple solution is to not procreate with this type of woman.

Post: #8

I'm an atheist and wouldn't care unless my son reflected badly on me with his religious beliefs.

Post: #9

(03-27-2013 03:21 PM)Emancipator Wrote:  Religious upbringing for the child isn't really an issue and shouldn't be an issue of if a man or woman getting to chose, it's up for both parents to come up with a solution and agreement. Plus if the mother raises the child in a particular faith, there isn't anything stopping the man from doing the same.

the bigger issue is mommy and daddy getting along. i've never known a man and woman who each have strong but different/opposing religious beliefs be able to get along well enough to raise a child.

Post: #10

My mother decided the family religion because it was more convenient to drive 15 minutes than an hour every Sunday morning. That, and her extended family were all close by and went to the same church. You guys don't have to make everything a dominance thing between husband and wife, especially if the husband does not care about religion.

My old man didn't give two shits about religion.

Good thing too, because I don't either.

There's a good reason why Jews might want to have Jewish children. Thing is, there aren't a terribly large amount of them left.

Say what you want about bitchy women, but Judaism gets some leeway. By my wikipedia estimates, there's about 12 million-ish of them left.

From what I understand, they tend to take their Jewish identities seriously. If she married a non Jew and had non Jewish children, she'd probably get disowned or something.

No one I know actually gives a shit anymore if a Catholic marries a Protestant. Most people can't even differentiate between the two.

Post: #11

(03-27-2013 04:53 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  My mother decided the family religion because it was more convenient to drive 15 minutes than an hour every Sunday morning. That, and her extended family were all close by and went to the same church. You guys don't have to make everything a dominance thing between husband and wife, especially if the husband does not care about religion.

My old man didn't give two shits about religion.

Good thing too, because I don't either.

There's a good reason why Jews might want to have Jewish children. Thing is, there aren't a terribly large amount of them left.

Say what you want about bitchy women, but Judaism gets some leeway. By my wikipedia estimates, there's about 12 million-ish of them left.

From what I understand, they tend to take their Jewish identities seriously. If she married a non Jew and had non Jewish children, she'd probably get disowned or something.

No one I know actually gives a shit anymore if a Catholic marries a Protestant. Most people can't even differentiate between the two.

This may be true here in the US, but I'm sure is very different in say Northern Ireland or any other region where there are centuries old religious tensions.

In the end we need to remember that women are the gatekeepers of sex, and men are the gatekeepers of commitment. If a man feels so strongly about his legacy, he should only marry and breed with a woman who agrees with his viewpoints.

Post: #12

(03-27-2013 03:03 PM)guerrilla Wrote:  if the mother is jewish by decree of the torah the child must also be jewish.

That's not actually in the Torah, that's in the Mishna, so there's a whole lot of argument about its validity, with some Jewish denominations (Orthodox and Conservative) accepting it, and others (Reform and Liberal) rejecting it. But most all agree in a marriage between Jews, the family's new joint denomination is determined by the father's line, not the mother's line. So if he's Reform and she's Orthodox, the family is now Reform.

The other issue is so many Jews in America have lapsed and fallen in their faith that most are Jews in name only. Most can't read the Torah (come on! It's only 5 books! Way easier than Christians have), don't attend synagogue, and are not part of any faith community. Losing your religion and then having a baby is probably not going to lead to a strong faith formation. Generally the women will get as far as the Bris and then return to their sloven ways. And if the baby's a girl, not even that far.

It's hard enough to find a modern woman who knows how to cook. Finding one that will keep a kosher kitchen, with two separate sets of plates, pans, and stoves to keep diary and meat separate, and only shop at kosher grocery stores that have kosher meat (Which has a ton of fucking salt. You literally have to soak the salt out if you don't want a headache afterwards) and is willing do to the cleaning for seder, build the canopy in the back yard for Sukkot... yeah right, ain't happening.

But sluts always do love Purim. You're literally commanded to get so drunk you can't tell the good guy from the bad guy in the play done during the dinner. It's like Saint Patrick's Day for Jews.

Post: #13

Well if you don't agree with it you don't have to marry and have a child with a practising Jewish woman.

It is their culture

It's like saying you'd be angry if you married a Chinese woman and she ate with chopsticks

The rule started after the Jews were conquered and sent into exile after their temple was destroyed

Post: #14

(03-27-2013 05:27 PM)Blackhawk Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 03:03 PM)guerrilla Wrote:  if the mother is jewish by decree of the torah the child must also be jewish.

That's not actually in the Torah, that's in the Mishna, so there's a whole lot of argument about its validity, with some Jewish denominations (Orthodox and Conservative) accepting it, and others (Reform and Liberal) rejecting it. But most all agree in a marriage between Jews, the family's new joint denomination is determined by the father's line, not the mother's line. So if he's Reform and she's Orthodox, the family is now Reform.

The other issue is so many Jews in America have lapsed and fallen in their faith that most are Jews in name only. Most can't read the Torah (come on! It's only 5 books! Way easier than Christians have), don't attend synagogue, and are not part of any faith community. Losing your religion and then having a baby is probably not going to lead to a strong faith formation. Generally the women will get as far as the Bris and then return to their sloven ways. And if the baby's a girl, not even that far.

It's hard enough to find a modern woman who knows how to cook. Finding one that will keep a kosher kitchen, with two separate sets of plates, pans, and stoves to keep diary and meat separate, and only shop at kosher grocery stores that have kosher meat (Which has a ton of fucking salt. You literally have to soak the salt out if you don't want a headache afterwards) and is willing do to the cleaning for seder, build the canopy in the back yard for Sukkot... yeah right, ain't happening.

But sluts always do love Purim. You're literally commanded to get so drunk you can't tell the good guy from the bad guy in the play done during the dinner. It's like Saint Patrick's Day for Jews.

I have a question actually

Why do you think that so many (secular) Jewish women are so promiscuous? Because their fathers spoil them? Lack of patriarchy?

Post: #15

(03-27-2013 05:50 PM)Kentucky Wrote:  Why do you think that so many (secular) Jewish women are so promiscuous? Because their fathers spoil them? Lack of patriarchy?

girlz are girlz. they're all hoes. the jewish girl isnt any less of a hoe than any other hoe.

Post: #16

(03-27-2013 05:27 PM)Blackhawk Wrote:  kosher meat (Which has a ton of fucking salt. You literally have to soak the salt out if you don't want a headache afterwards)

why is it so salty?

Post: #17

(03-27-2013 05:27 PM)Blackhawk Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 03:03 PM)guerrilla Wrote:  if the mother is jewish by decree of the torah the child must also be jewish.

That's not actually in the Torah, that's in the Mishna, so there's a whole lot of argument about its validity, with some Jewish denominations (Orthodox and Conservative) accepting it, and others (Reform and Liberal) rejecting it. But most all agree in a marriage between Jews, the family's new joint denomination is determined by the father's line, not the mother's line. So if he's Reform and she's Orthodox, the family is now Reform.

The other issue is so many Jews in America have lapsed and fallen in their faith that most are Jews in name only. Most can't read the Torah (come on! It's only 5 books! Way easier than Christians have), don't attend synagogue, and are not part of any faith community. Losing your religion and then having a baby is probably not going to lead to a strong faith formation. Generally the women will get as far as the Bris and then return to their sloven ways. And if the baby's a girl, not even that far.

It's hard enough to find a modern woman who knows how to cook. Finding one that will keep a kosher kitchen, with two separate sets of plates, pans, and stoves to keep diary and meat separate, and only shop at kosher grocery stores that have kosher meat (Which has a ton of fucking salt. You literally have to soak the salt out if you don't want a headache afterwards) and is willing do to the cleaning for seder, build the canopy in the back yard for Sukkot... yeah right, ain't happening.

But sluts always do love Purim. You're literally commanded to get so drunk you can't tell the good guy from the bad guy in the play done during the dinner. It's like Saint Patrick's Day for Jews.

dayumm someone put the kibosh on this shiznitz.

rap game mensch

lets change the name of "harem" to kibbutz instead. fawk yah

Post: #18

(03-27-2013 02:03 PM)Exactaking Wrote:  http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/...-wins-out/

Read this funny article that confirms stereotypes of domineering Jewish mothers. This woman tells the man on their first date their kids will be raised Jewish. I know most of you all don't really care or have any religious orientation, but I feel in a household the man should have a say in his children's upbringing.

Over here at the Lutheran/Orthodox boundary which one the kids go in follows the mother. Men don't care much about religion, being deep into it is for women and for faggots (our priests can marry but the profession still attracts tons of gays). It has always been the women that drag the men to church where you get told what colours to wear on which day of Easter and so on. Who cares about this stuff? Women and gay men.

A man insisting on religion sounds as 100 % queer to me as a man insisting that he should be the one to decorate the family home and the one to colour coordinate the children's clothing. Religion is a feminine responsibility in the family and a man just goes along with whatever the woman decides because a man innately realizes that spending energy on worrying about which clothes to wear on which day is totally useless bullshit.

Post: #19

(03-27-2013 07:08 PM)jaakkeli Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 02:03 PM)Exactaking Wrote:  http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/...-wins-out/

Read this funny article that confirms stereotypes of domineering Jewish mothers. This woman tells the man on their first date their kids will be raised Jewish. I know most of you all don't really care or have any religious orientation, but I feel in a household the man should have a say in his children's upbringing.

Over here at the Lutheran/Orthodox boundary which one the kids go in follows the mother. Men don't care much about religion, being deep into it is for women and for faggots (our priests can marry but the profession still attracts tons of gays). It has always been the women that drag the men to church where you get told what colours to wear on which day of Easter and so on. Who cares about this stuff? Women and gay men.

A man insisting on religion sounds as 100 % queer to me as a man insisting that he should be the one to decorate the family home and the one to colour coordinate the children's clothing. Religion is a feminine responsibility in the family and a man just goes along with whatever the woman decides because a man innately realizes that spending energy on worrying about which clothes to wear on which day is totally useless bullshit.

All of the above holds true if you're an atheist or agnostic. Otherwise, the idea that religion is inherently feminine is absurd. American churches have become feminized in recent decades, but all major religions were founded and run by men, as indeed all major organizations and movements are.

Why should you go along with what the woman wants? Any feminine compliant wife will happily obey her husbands wishes when it comes to issues like this. And yes, any decent woman will clear even bullshit like interior decorating with her man too.

Post: #20

(03-27-2013 05:13 PM)teh_skeeze Wrote:  This may be true here in the US, but I'm sure is very different in say Northern Ireland or any other region where there are centuries old religious tensions.

In the end we need to remember that women are the gatekeepers of sex, and men are the gatekeepers of commitment. If a man feels so strongly about his legacy, he should only marry and breed with a woman who agrees with his viewpoints.

That's very true concerning religion with places like Ireland. Around here in the Midwest though, the church is heavily feminized and the clergy so far removed from reality that what they lecture about in their sermons is so idealized it's hardly relevant.

I forget where I read it, but someone said that the Church used to preach the Bible and act like Oprah. Now they preach like Oprah and act like Oprah. Their explanation had to do with putting all the fault on men for why they think things are going to shit, which I suppose is partly true. I think it was Dalrock.

Post: #21

(03-27-2013 06:39 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  why is it so salty?

The old Jews believed blood contained the soul. So if you returned all the blood of an animal back to the ground when you slaughtered it, you weren't really killing it, you were just taking the body, but its soul would be reborn out of the ground later on, over and over again, which would let you eat it over and over again. Whereas eating blood is stealing the soul of the animal and extremely wasteful, reducing the population of animal souls and so reducing the potential size of your flocks. (Not that anyone has ever in history reported being unable to increase the size of their flocks because of a lack of souls in the ground).

So kosher meat is more than just "don't eat pork, bacon, shrimp, crab, or oysters". Even it it's the right animal, to be kosher it has to be slaughtered and hung to drain in a special way to remove as much blood as possible. Then veins, sinews, and certain fat deposits are removed as well. And then it's salted heavily to remove even more blood.

A steak with no blood comes out kinda gray and tough. I can't recommend a kosher steak if you can avoid it.

On the other hand, if she's serious about kosher, you will seldom eat out because very few restaurants keep a kosher kitchen.

The kosher ground turkey at Trader Joes is probably the best and most accessible. Invite her over for dinner telling her that's what you've got for her. Don't waste your time trying to kasher your frying pan by heating it with a blow torch until it's red. You'll fucking burn your house down. Just buy a cheap ass $7 frying pan from Target, the more hideous the better, use that for meat when she comes over, and make a point of putting it in a bag when it's not being used to protect it from contact with dairy. That, and you can always serve eggs (after being inspected in the bowl for any blood spots)

Post: #22

(03-27-2013 07:12 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  All of the above holds true if you're an atheist or agnostic. Otherwise, the idea that religion is inherently feminine is absurd.

I'm from a VERY conservative family and atheism means communism to most of my older relatives and we don't talk to atheist communists, we shoot at atheist communists.

But women do the religion. Men don't care about the details and they don't want to know, men just practice shooting and stash guns to fight the atheist communists to the last breath. Or we did, now we are a little lost... but religion is still like home decoration, we see that the home is actually nicer once a woman has decorated it but we won't or can't do it ourselves. The woman should bring the religion to the family. It's a very bad sign for the man in the couple to be more religious than the woman.

Quote:American churches have become feminized in recent decades, but all major religions were founded and run by men, as indeed all major organizations and movements are.

Indeed. For example, all the biggest fashion gurus are men. All effeminate gay men of course. Women are followers, not leaders, and that's true even in women's subjects like fashion and religion - effeminate men end up in the lead and masses of women follow. Some founders of religion are surely not effeminate but then it just means that the amoral alpha male became the top warlord and instructed some more effeminate types to invent a theology that justify his moves.

Quote:Why should you go along with what the woman wants?

Since I can't be bothered with learning about religion myself? It's a nice thing to have but it's women's stuff, if I were to marry and have a family I'd expect the woman to do this stuff for me so that I don't have to bother.

Post: #23

I think that is a Christian thing.

Orthodox Judaism and Islam are very male, and if anything the women practice it less

Those are two of the fastest growing religions coincidentally