Post: #1

I've been having a lot of inner dialogue about what I want to do with my life.

I've been struggling with facing the reality of low chances of success in trying to make a living off of what I am passionate about.


My plan A's:

Journalism- I think I could make a good journalist in that I have a voice, great style, and decent writing skills.

The problem is the journalism industry, by and large, is going down the shitter. With more people going on Facebook and Twitter for their news rather than The Economist or The NY Times, regardless if the content is online or in print, I don't see the industry being a safe bet for landing a decent job with a middle class income. I plan on trying anyway, even going to journalism school next year, but the probability of landing a job is low.

Novelist- Being a novelist is another dream of mine, perhaps my ultimate dream.

Sadly, most writers who want to make a living writing professionally don't make it. I think the last statistic I saw is that 1 in a 1000 make the equivalent of a minimum wage.

My ambition, emotions and confidence says go forth and try. If my time is wasted anyway (by doing something "safe") I might as well waste it pursuing something I may never receive.

My rational mind says choose something safe. I can't imagine living like the way I do now (hourly wage, constant survival mode, one illness away from bankruptcy) at 32, the age I've projected I will be exiting graduate school (I am currently 29).

Ebook/Blog business- I see this as the most tangible dream. I have a voice and great ideas. I figure becoming a self employed blogger/ebook seller can happen.

My main concern is the time it would take to get the ship off the ground. I imagine five years of hard work and continuous effort, unless I luck out with my first-ebook and wake up one day to see it is #1 on Amazon for a month straight. I'm not basing my success on a "lottery ticket" though.

My plan B's:

Higher education administration- I get to work in a college campus which is a great work environment. The job market is growing thanks to access to higher education expanding. Obama's (and three years from now Hillary's) "everyone must go to college" spiel won't be ending anytime soon so that is a lot of opportunities to work.

I figure student affairs would be the funnest niche. Helping coordinate housing and events for students seems like a fun job that I could manage while trying to get my boat to set sail. Also, being around all those young women can net a lot of game opportunities, even better if I am in a major urban area or college town.

EELP Special Needs Pre-K- Small class size. Kids are easily manageable (compared to middle and high schoolers), can work anywhere in the United States. Lots of time off. Excellent job security.

However, the job is stressful and there is a lot of paper work. I can't imagine doing this job for the money or time off. I don't think hating your life 9 1/2 months out of the year is worth 2 1/2 months off.

English Professor- The pluses I mentioned in higher education administration are there (stimulating work environment, lots of young pussy, autonomy, intellectually stimulating).


One major issue is that the jobs are scarce and the competition is fierce.

Also, you have to go to where the job is. I plan on staying in Florida long term so taking a job in Anchorage, Alaska is out of the question.

And politically, academia is becoming much more beta philosophy and politically correct oriented, meaning any red pill views that slip out of my mouth will cost me job/tenure. We all remember what happened when Lawrence Summers, then president of Harvard, said men have a better aptitude for science and math than women.

Yeah, witch hunt.

Add to the fact you are investing a minimum of five years in a degree, that pays 40-50k, which you may not even see, given the competition for jobs is so fierce, (5000+PHDs in the humanities are janitors from what I've read) and we are sitting on yet another low probability job.

I may have a bit of an edge given I am a minority (black male) but that can only take me so far.

*sigh*

Is anyone on the forum shooting for long shot dreams? What keeps you motivated? Do you have any plan B’s?

I wish at times to throw away my ambition and concentrate on something realistic but I know so many people in their 50s who wish they had done what they wanted to do with their lives. Choosing the safe option may be a path towards regret.

I wonder how everyone else feels about it all.

Post: #2

There are ways of making a living off writing, but you need a really good niche.

I've met people who shot for their dreams and ended up ruined and broke and destitute. Some people never recover. I'd even say that for every Roosh there are 9 IRTs. Chasing your dreams is good, but your dreams need to be smart in the first place, or they'll eat you and chew you and spit you back out.

I took a year off to write a novel. No one published it, I didn't make a cent off it. In fact, in terms of lost income, the book cost a hell of a lot for me to write. I'm still happy I got that monkey off my back, because it felt good to cross 'write a novel' off my list.

But I had a career to go back to, and in fact I appreciated my career a lot more once I saw my dream crash and burn.

Even Roosh had to be a microbiologist before he could grab the opportunity to chase a dream.

I'm not sure what my point is, but hope it helps.

Post: #3

Read So Good They Can't Ignore You, by Cal Newport. It debunks the "go for your passion" myth and argues that there are different factors that determine if someone likes his/her job. First and foremost, it argues that you need skills to get to a job that will prove satisfactory, and that acquiring these skills should be your main goal.

Post: #4

It is better to have an interesting life than an interesting job.

Life is more interesting the more money you have.

Follow the money.

Post: #5

Figure out what you're trying to optimize and then imagine all the possible scenarios and the likelihood of each. It's easier if you assign a dollar value to everything if possible. So if one job pays $90k and the other pays $100k but isn't as interesting, try to assign a dollar value to the difference in "interestingness" between the two jobs.

For high risk goals, try to assign different probabilities to the career outcomes. e.g. 1% of a highly successful career in journalism, 4% chance of a decent career, 95% chance of a boring career. And each of these will have a different value associated with it.

It may help to research NPV calculations.

I did this to figure out if I should start my own business or not. I'm going to do it. Even if I fail, I will probably end up with a level of income very similar to what I would have if I didn't try to start the business and just remained a cubicle monkey.

Post: #6

(03-13-2013 01:15 PM)GreenGranted Wrote:  Read So Good They Can't Ignore You, by Cal Newport. It debunks the "go for your passion" myth and argues that there are different factors that determine if someone likes his/her job. First and foremost, it argues that you need skills to get to a job that will prove satisfactory, and that acquiring these skills should be your main goal.

Exactly. Hence why I feel, even with a journalism degree, I should still get something else. Maybe a dual degree in journalism/higher education administration. It would mean another year and a half in college but I am in no rush to grow up.

From what everyone is telling me a journalism degree is pretty much useless. I do so a lot of jobs in journalism requiring masters now (since the supply is so high).

Post: #7

I followed my dream after college (journalism). It worked out for a few years, but now I'm on to something else, having accomplished more in my short journalism career than most guys have accomplished by age 50. For reference, I'm 28. It was a wild ride that sent me to incredible places around the globe, and gave me a lifetime of stories to tell. But, a series of setbacks and realizations forced me to make new moves and to cut and run while I still could.

My take on it: choosing to go into the arts (journalism, acting, photography, filmmaking, music, etc.) is not a rational choice where you weigh out your options, and choose to become a guitar player instead of a doctor or something. It's a lifestyle, you KNOW deep down that it's what you want because you live and breath it. You don't choose it, it chooses you type of thing. You do it because you simply want it more than anyone else does. You have to be willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING in your life to make it work.

The fact that you said "I think I could make a good journalist" means you already probably don't have what it takes. Most people don't. If you did, you wouldn't be asking here. Sorry if that's harsh, but it's the truth. Nobody is going to give you the benefit of the doubt in those industries; you're in or you're out, and you're only ever as good as your last gig.

Additional thoughts: people resent you if you have success in the arts. Even when I was being nationally recognized for my work, friends and family still asked me when I was going to get a "real job." That shit eats away at you after awhile.

If you are truly, deeply passionate about something, then you will regret it if you don't pursue it. Obviously. But otherwise, get a real job.

Post: #8

(03-13-2013 01:57 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  I followed my dream after college (journalism). It worked out for a few years, but now I'm on to something else, having accomplished more in my short journalism career than most guys have accomplished by age 50. For reference, I'm 28. It was a wild ride that sent me to incredible places around the globe, and gave me a lifetime of stories to tell. But, a series of setbacks and realizations forced me to make new moves and to cut and run while I still could.

My take on it: choosing to go into the arts (journalism, acting, photography, filmmaking, music, etc.) is not a rational choice where you weigh out your options, and choose to become a guitar player instead of a doctor or something. It's a lifestyle, you KNOW deep down that it's what you want because you live and breath it. You don't choose it, it chooses you type of thing. You do it because you simply want it more than anyone else does. You have to be willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING in your life to make it work.

The fact that you said "I think I could make a good journalist" means you already probably don't have what it takes. Most people don't. If you did, you wouldn't be asking here. Sorry if that's harsh, but it's the truth. Nobody is going to give you the benefit of the doubt in those industries; you're in or you're out, and you're only ever as good as your last gig.

Additional thoughts: people resent you if you have success in the arts. Even when I was being nationally recognized for my work, friends and family still asked me when I was going to get a "real job." That shit eats away at you after awhile.

If you are truly, deeply passionate about something, then you will regret it if you don't pursue it. Obviously. But otherwise, get a real job.

This is exactly the sentiment that Cal Newport argues against.

Post: #9

(03-13-2013 01:57 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  I followed my dream after college (journalism). It worked out for a few years, but now I'm on to something else, having accomplished more in my short journalism career than most guys have accomplished by age 50. For reference, I'm 28. It was a wild ride that sent me to incredible places around the globe, and gave me a lifetime of stories to tell. But, a series of setbacks and realizations forced me to make new moves and to cut and run while I still could.

My take on it: choosing to go into the arts (journalism, acting, photography, filmmaking, music, etc.) is not a rational choice where you weigh out your options, and choose to become a guitar player instead of a doctor or something. It's a lifestyle, you KNOW deep down that it's what you want because you live and breath it. You don't choose it, it chooses you type of thing. You do it because you simply want it more than anyone else does. You have to be willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING in your life to make it work.

The fact that you said "I think I could make a good journalist" means you already probably don't have what it takes. Most people don't. If you did, you wouldn't be asking here. Sorry if that's harsh, but it's the truth. Nobody is going to give you the benefit of the doubt in those industries; you're in or you're out, and you're only ever as good as your last gig.

Additional thoughts: people resent you if you have success in the arts. Even when I was being nationally recognized for my work, friends and family still asked me when I was going to get a "real job." That shit eats away at you after awhile.

If you are truly, deeply passionate about something, then you will regret it if you don't pursue it. Obviously. But otherwise, get a real job.

Quick question: What does it take to be a good journalist?

Also, since you were a former journalist, who succeeded very well in the industry, why did you leave? Was it not what you thought it would be?

Post: #10

First world problems.

Post: #11

(03-13-2013 01:05 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  I took a year off to write a novel. No one published it, I didn't make a cent off it. In fact, in terms of lost income, the book cost a hell of a lot for me to write. I'm still happy I got that monkey off my back, because it felt good to cross 'write a novel' off my list.

Most authors who are published get rejected an insane amount of times. Some even as much as 800+ times. Animal Farm, Carrie,The Diary of Anne Frank, and even Gone with the Wind were rejected before eventually being published. You should really keep trying if you're passionate about it. Persistence.

And with the way things are now, you can even publish your own novel. There are some people pulling in $20,000 a month from ebooks.

But you can feel proud knowing you've completed a novel. Something most people will never do. Definitely something you should take great pride in.

I'm a writer myself. I want to be a novelist. I know going into it I will more than likely fail and be rejected countless times, but I'll keep trying because I like writing. I do it for myself. And I'm a firm believer that you should strive for your dream. But always have a backup plan. A contingency if things don't work out.

Post: #12

i think newspapers are a dying industry so convential journalism route is really an uphill battle. that said i would avoid majoring in journalism. actually if i could impart any advice it is that if you are paying for college(not your parents or through scholarships) avoid getting a major that doesnt offer a good return on your investment a la journalism, communications, english literature.

Post: #13

even if print media going away, there will always be journalists and writers

Post: #14

(03-13-2013 05:51 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  First world problems.

I think so, and probably also the blessing-curse of the younger generations of the West. Early-mid 20th century, there's a good chance you didn't have the luxury to wonder what your true calling or dreams were -- you just had to put your head down and make shit happen for the wife you never thought twice about marrying and the kids you always knew you would have.

Of course, I'm no different (and the same age as Ahab). I'm in a decent place now with a few accomplishments under my belt, but still have about 10 different things I'd like to do.

This is a shot in the dark, but I recently stumbled upon a book called "Refuse to Choose" about a specific type of personality / brain wiring the author calls "Scanners" that fits me perfectly. To have a book describe you and all your life's problems exactly is pretty chilling but also quite a relief to know you aren't just a frazzle-brained deadbeat mental case. I've done the Myers-Briggs test and my type description (INTP) was in the ballpark, but this book zeroed in 100x more on point. If you find all kinds of things in life intensely interesting, find that you have a pretty good aptitude for most things you try, find it impossible to choose just one thing, have a hard time sticking with one thing, and yet feel a sort of existential panic about finding your Big Thing before you die with the best inside of you, you should give the book a read -- it's enlightening. I didn't realize everyone wasn't like that.

Post: #15

Anyone ever read The War of Art by Steven Pressfield? I haven't, but I have a feeling it might help you.

Post: #16

(03-13-2013 09:48 PM)bacon Wrote:  i think newspapers are a dying industry so convential journalism route is really an uphill battle. that said i would avoid majoring in journalism. actually if i could impart any advice it is that if you are paying for college(not your parents or through scholarships) avoid getting a major that doesnt offer a good return on your investment a la journalism, communications, english literature.

how old are you capt ahab?

Ha, how about TWO worthless degrees.

I am 29.

I really don't see any chance of me getting into the industry without credentials/portfolio. I've hustled hard to get into journalism but I have zero work to show for me other than my two "useless" degrees (English/Political Science). I didn't even write for the school newspaper in my undergrad.

I really don't see what other degrees I would do. I have no interest in the sciences or business world. Humanities netted me a high gpa, lots of reading, and great writing skills. I have a good platform to launch into graduate school.


Graduate school is my way into the industry barring writing my own material and building enough traffic on my blog to convince a newspaper I am worth a damn (which could take a while).

Florida has a journalism program that is top ten in the nation for journalism (University of Florida). I figure to take my chances with a graduate degree and produce as much content as possible while making connections. It is a long shot but it is a shot.

They also have a program in higher education administration. If the writing is as clear as day after giving it my best shot I can always switch majors to something safe.

And if anything, graduate school would be a good investment of my youth. Who wouldn't want to take another shot at the college life now that I learned game? I can't think of an area buried in young women like a college town.

Post: #17

(03-13-2013 09:49 PM)GenJx Wrote:  even if print media going away, there will always be journalists and writers

That's what I was thinking...

I mean journalists will always be around. I think the industry is going online.

The days of pressing a recorder and jotting down notes on the legal pad are over but that doesn't mean people won't be needed to report the news.

Post: #18

(03-13-2013 09:53 PM)Rah Wrote:  

(03-13-2013 05:51 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  First world problems.

I think so, and probably also the blessing-curse of the younger generations of the West. Early-mid 20th century, there's a good chance you didn't have the luxury to wonder what your true calling or dreams were -- you just had to put your head down and make shit happen for the wife you never thought twice about marrying and the kids you always knew you would have.

Of course, I'm no different (and the same age as Ahab). I'm in a decent place now with a few accomplishments under my belt, but still have about 10 different things I'd like to do.

This is a shot in the dark, but I recently stumbled upon a book called "Refuse to Choose" about a specific type of personality / brain wiring the author calls "Scanners" that fits me perfectly. To have a book describe you and all your life's problems exactly is pretty chilling but also quite a relief to know you aren't just a frazzle-brained deadbeat mental case. I've done the Myers-Briggs test and my type description (INTP) was in the ballpark, but this book zeroed in 100x more on point. If you find all kinds of things in life intensely interesting, find that you have a pretty good aptitude for most things you try, find it impossible to choose just one thing, have a hard time sticking with one thing, and yet feel a sort of existential panic about finding your Big Thing before you die with the best inside of you, you should give the book a read -- it's enlightening. I didn't realize everyone wasn't like that.

Nice.

I had to do a lot of those Myers Briggs tests for a leadership program at my alma mater. I got ENTJ.

I don't want to dabble in many things. I did have career ADD for a long time (even applied to Occupational Therapy school...yeah, wtf) but in the end written communication is where I want to make my mark, with verbal communication as a back up.

Post: #19

(03-13-2013 09:53 PM)renotime Wrote:  Anyone ever read The War of Art by Steven Pressfield? I haven't, but I have a feeling it might help you.

I looked it up on amazon. What stuck out to me was the line that mentions fulfilling yourself as a human being.

Could you really fulfill yourself as a human being by doing something that is low risk/medium reward? Something that is safe versus "unrealistic" ?

In the end I ask this question to get many perspectives on if it is worth it to swing for the fence or not?

Post: #20

(03-13-2013 09:53 PM)renotime Wrote:  Anyone ever read The War of Art by Steven Pressfield? I haven't, but I have a feeling it might help you.

Read it and enjoyed. I definitely recommend a read.

Post: #21

In the area of art, I have been playing music for 40 years, never made significant money off it.

Absolutely all the highest highs I've had were while playing music. For me, it is an end in itself.
I walk around all day with melodies running through my head.

I don't think I'm that talented, that doesn't seem important to me. Probably a few musicians per century are great enough to be remembered, and I'm definitely not one of them. THOSE people sort of know who they are I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Debussy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlvUepMa31o

I wasn't so driven as to be practicing 8 hours a day. I figured I should learn something else so I could be productive. So I started learning programming when I was about 28 to get out of menial jobs.

But FIRST in life I put the thing I loved.

But I've always continued playing. You should HAVE to create the thing if you are really an artist.
It's like an orange tree growing oranges. It doesn't really matter what it thinks or wants to do. It's an orange tree.

I've heard there's a saying from the Mideast about music:
Fast for three days, then have delicious dishes cooked. If you still prefer music, become a musician.

If I fell over and died right now, by far and without doubt, the happiest thing I remember would be music.

"Without music, life would be a mistake."
--Nietzsche

Post: #22

"Read So Good They Can't Ignore You, by Cal Newport. It debunks the "go for your passion" myth and argues that there are different factors that determine if someone likes his/her job. First and foremost, it argues that you need skills to get to a job that will prove satisfactory, and that acquiring these skills should be your main goal."

This. I read the book a few months ago. His advice is golden in my opinion. I too would highly recommend reading it and then deciding what you want to do with your life.

Post: #23

I recommend reading Succeeding by John T Reed. It will help you decide and dispel some confusion.

I did a review here: /thread-21109.html

Also check out the Art of Money Getting by P.T. Barnum, which was written in 1880, is free, and just as applicable today: http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/barnum/moneygetting/

Post: #24

This is depressing, but if you want to go for long shot dreams, don't quit your day job and keep up a nest egg to pay for groceries and rent. That's advice I got from some depressing bastards who worked full time as assemblers in a factory job. Basically work hard until you get your "break", then cut all ties and stay as motivated as possible.

Post: #25

Since you think you're a great writer, start a blog. If you build a wide audience, market your ebooks through that.

Nice thing about the Internet is there are zero barriers to entry.