Post: #326

I did create an account and got quite a few messages but never did pull the trigger. I guess what it came down to is that I like the challenge of the hunt. I want to know I got a woman without tricking her in some way. Besides, the majority of the women on this site are pretty much what I meet and can get when I go out anyway. They are definitely nothing special about them to me. I would rather pay a hooker for sex than to trick one into giving me some. There is something I find ethically wrong about deceiving people in any way.

Post: #327

(04-30-2013 08:11 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  I did create an account and got quite a few messages but never did pull the trigger. I guess what it came down to is that I like the challenge of the hunt. I want to know I got a woman without tricking her in some way. Besides, the majority of the women on this site are pretty much what I meet and can get when I go out anyway. They are definitely nothing special about them to me. I would rather pay a hooker for sex than to trick one into giving me some. There is something I find ethically wrong about deceiving people in any way.

Eh don't see anything ethically wrong.

Girls take out chump guys for dates and free drinks (no sex just a lets be friends). You're taking them out for drinks/dinner and end up having sex what's the difference? Hell if anything these guys are more in the right than the girls, since they take out their chump dates knowing very well they are using them. At least you're giving the girl a cool date.

If you enjoy the hunt more that's cool for your style, but ethics? I'll take the other Side of the coin.

Post: #328

1. These girls are stating their intentions very clearly up front on this site. They are not trying to deceive anyone.
2. While girls do take advantage of men all the time getting drinks etc. it's not necessarily these girls.
3. You are not just taking them out to dinner, you are implying an interest in a contractual arrangement you have no intention of keeping.
It's the same as telling a girl you will marry her to fuck her or that you will give her a job.

I am not judging anyone. Everyone is free to carry themselves as they wish. Personally, I don't misrepresent my intentions
to girls. I want them to know what I am after and I am not willing to lie to them to get it. My personal integrity is worth
far more to me than any pussy.

Post: #329

(04-30-2013 09:19 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  1. These girls are stating their intentions very clearly up front on this site. They are not trying to deceive anyone.
2. While girls do take advantage of men all the time getting drinks etc. it's not necessarily these girls.
3. You are not just taking them out to dinner, you are implying an interest in a contractual arrangement you have no intention of keeping.
It's the same as telling a girl you will marry her to fuck her or that you will give her a job.

I am not judging anyone. Everyone is free to carry themselves as they wish. Personally, I don't misrepresent my intentions
to girls. I want them to know what I am after and I am not willing to lie to them to get it. My personal integrity is worth
far more to me than any pussy.

Got it, you have a much higher moral/integrity ground than I when it comes to women to each his own. I would happily say "I love you" let alone a few drinks to a woman to get a bang.

As one of my girlfriends told me "yeah I told him I love him, it's just words coming out of my mouth". That's when I knew to stop caring.

Post: #330

Lets see if the mainstream media picks up on this topic. A few weeks ago, Samseau wrote How To Legally Cheat Your Student Loans In 3 Easy Steps for Return of Kings--a week or two later NBC ran a similar story. Coincidence, I think not--this forum is getting popular.

Post: #331

@WestCoast As with everything, where do you draw the line or when do you cross it? For example, how drunk does a girl has to be to NOT fuck her? Some guys will fuck a girl that's completely passed out. Many times a woman knows when you are saying or doing something to get her into bed, it's part of the game. It's the same with sales. Is it ok, to tell an outright lie about a product to sell it vs stretching the truth a little? Each of us must define our own sense of morality. Personally, I have found that any woman I have to manipulate extensively to get sex from was never worth it in the end.

Post: #332

(04-30-2013 09:56 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  @WestCoast As with everything, where do you draw the line or when do you cross it? For example, how drunk does a girl has to be to NOT fuck her? Some guys will fuck a girl that's completely passed out. Many times a woman knows when you are saying or doing something to get her into bed, it's part of the game. It's the same with sales. Is it ok, to tell an outright lie about a product to sell it vs stretching the truth a little? Each of us must define our own sense of morality. Personally, I have found that any woman I have to manipulate extensively to get sex from was never worth it in the end.

Sure here's my line:

Girls = get the bang with 0% chance of accusations. I will not bang a girl more than 2 drinks in and always send a "had a great time last night" text the next morning. Also make sure to get her to send naked photos etc etc. So i'm in the clear. False rape is a big no. My moral line for women is pretty much a zero excluding the emotional attachment part. As soon as she texts me daily i am out. Run like DMC. If we're still in the "this is just a fling stage" i'm there.

Business = all honesty all ethics. You build a brand in business and your name matters there. If I screw over one client i am ruining my business model. This is sales 101, you want to do good work so people pass it along to people and you actually make more money by being honest. Business is not women. Women are unfair creatures of emotion and self desire.

Business is built on honesty, women have no concept of fairness or honesty

This is why I'll back these guys on SA, if they were selling a fake product online to the masses I would not back them. So that's how the line is drawn.

I also treat my male friends like a business partner at Hello you have my undivided trust. You want a girl have her. You need a drink? On me. You need help on XYZ task you know how to get to me. However you burn me, the phone line is now dead and i'm a ghost. We never met.

This is similar to getting burned by girls for guys in relationships, simply never respond, the person is dead to you. Dead means you detach all emotions from them. If they call you crying that their mom died. Sorry you're not picking up. It's done.

Post: #333

Nice, we got some hooker white knighting.

Great thread guys. You made me look up the site and check it out. I was a little surprised at the amount of women on there. Tons and quite a few good looking young-uns. I suspect it will only get better.

I had a few chuckles at some of the women wanting 20k a month.

Man, this may be right up my alley since I would rather work and do other things than chase tail.

Post: #334

@WestCoast I guess I have just been lucky in that my experience with women have been very different than a lot of guys on here. It's not that I don't know there are some bitches out there I guess I just have a very good self-defense mechanism. I agree with your position on business and men BUT I also treat women exactly like I treat men. Everyone is given a chance to either prove or disprove themselves.

But I guess in the end we are all a product of our experiences...

Post: #335

(04-30-2013 09:19 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  1. These girls are stating their intentions very clearly up front on this site. They are not trying to deceive anyone.
2. While girls do take advantage of men all the time getting drinks etc. it's not necessarily these girls.
3. You are not just taking them out to dinner, you are implying an interest in a contractual arrangement you have no intention of keeping.
It's the same as telling a girl you will marry her to fuck her or that you will give her a job.

I am not judging anyone. Everyone is free to carry themselves as they wish. Personally, I don't misrepresent my intentions
to girls. I want them to know what I am after and I am not willing to lie to them to get it. My personal integrity is worth
far more to me than any pussy.

I believe that your approach is one practical strategy. People who lie habitually can become good liers, however it's my belief that the very subtle body language and facial cues that a man with high integrity gives off are too difficult to fake.

If you have carefully cultivated integrity, people pick up on it. This signal you send out can be used to personal advantage.

People become more willing to invest emotionally in you if they trust you.

People trust you more if you cultivate integrity.

It's one strategy.

I prefer it myself. It works in conjunction with other strategies I use, especially with getting girls emotionally invested. High affect and high trust leads to bonding, which when combined with dominance leads to huge hand.

Personal integrity may be more suited to guys who like a feeling of intimacy when they fuck. I know it's popular to believe that intimacy means a lack of control, as one must give in to all sorts of messy emotions, some of which can be used as hooks that give a girl power, thus making the man weaker. But the weakness can work both ways, and if you are skilled in the arena of intimacy, you can handily win the battle.

Post: #336

@xsplat Well said and I concur 100%. If you are just looking for a low quality bang/notch then lying could suit your purposes better. All of these issues a lot of guys on here seem to have with women are foreign to me. Women don't care if you have another women. What they care about is being treated unfairly or deceptively. Time and time again, the No.1 complain I hear from women about men is that of being lied to or deceived e.g. I don't have a girlfriend. No one likes it. Higher quality women, smarter women, are also going to be much more difficult to deceive. Personally, it's just a lot less work and stress all around to just be upfront and honest about your intentions. (This is where the concept of Frame comes into play: my frame is that it is natural for me to have and want multiple women. It is natural for me to want sex. And it is natural for me to expect you to act like a woman. My frame says I will treat you with integrity and respect and in return I expect the same. I don't have to demand these things. My frame communicates them.) In an age where women feel there is no integrity, a man that has some is automatically granted a higher status among men.

Post: #337

(05-01-2013 04:45 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  In an age where women feel there is no integrity, a man that has some is automatically granted a higher status among men.

I'd like to think so. Of course we're assuming that the man is also wise and wiley, and not an easily manipulated and duped naive chump.

It's common for people to talk right past each other in these matters, as our experiences and our approaches can narrowly define our views and reality. People with low affect (those who don't scream during sex or get emotionally involved with women) and a low trust strategy are not going to know of - and in fact not even going to want to admit the possibility of - any other world that arises from a different strategy.

Post: #338

Treat those who have integrity with integrity. Treat the cheats like cheats.

Without being personally cheated we have to rely on other signals to determine if someone is a cheat. Being a woman is a pretty strong signal, but maybe insufficient. Being a woman on SA is sufficient for me.

Post: #339

@xsplat Yes, to a great degree our experiences and the experiences of those around us defines and limits our reality. It's like an American man trying to relate to a Middle Eastern Muslim man: they are products of two very different worlds with little common ground.

Our approach and objective is "relationship" based whereas most guys on here are bang/notches based. Two very different games, that would by their very nature, require two very different types of players.

Post: #340

(05-01-2013 05:20 AM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  Treat those who have integrity with integrity. Treat the cheats like cheats.

Without being personally cheated we have to rely on other signals to determine if someone is a cheat. Being a woman is a pretty strong signal, but maybe insufficient. Being a woman on SA is sufficient for me.

What does integrity mean? To me, it's just another word for honesty. All these women (on SA) are, are the Americanized version of a prostitute. They are not cheating anyone. They have integrity because they are being honest about what they are offering and what they expect in return.

Now, if you feel that a prostitute has no integrity by virtue of her profession then that's a moral issue. To me, a woman that tells me she wants $200 for sex or $2000/month for a relationship has integrity - she is being honest. One that goes out with me to get free drinks and food, knowing she has no interest in me whatsoever, has no integrity - because she is being dishonest.

Post: #341

Nomad how can you judge women by the same standard as men? If women had the same integrity they would almost never flake after making a date, but the opposite is true. I'm not mad at them but neither do I hold them to the same standard.

Do you tell a girl that goes out with you that you expect sex from her if you buy her dinner? Are you dishonest if you don't? Are women lacking in integrity if they meet you in makeup? I mean they certainly don't really look like that.

I treat women like adults. They are free to interact or not interact with me, and to form their own judgements. While I do not want to hurt them, out of malice or otherwise, neither am I worried about their best interest.

Post: #342

A person with integrity will be honest and refrain from stabbing me in the back if he\she can benefit.

My assumption, based on extensive experience with women, is that women on SA will stab me in the back if it benefits them. They will cheat me if they know there is little chance of getting caught.

Post: #343

(05-01-2013 07:33 AM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  A person with integrity will be honest and refrain from stabbing me in the back if he\she can benefit.

My assumption, based on extensive experience with women, is that women in general will stab me in the back if it benefits them. They will cheat me if they know there is little chance of getting caught.

Made one slight change and 100% agree.

Post: #344

(05-01-2013 08:31 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 07:33 AM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  A person with integrity will be honest and refrain from stabbing me in the back if he\she can benefit.

My assumption, based on extensive experience with women, is that women in general will stab me in the back if it benefits them. They will cheat me if they know there is little chance of getting caught.

Made one slight change and 100% agree.

It depends huge on where the women grew up and where they were educated.

East coast women? NYC women? Hell yeah, wouldn't trust em with 5 bucks.

Post: #345

(05-01-2013 08:33 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 08:31 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 07:33 AM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  A person with integrity will be honest and refrain from stabbing me in the back if he\she can benefit.

My assumption, based on extensive experience with women, is that women in general will stab me in the back if it benefits them. They will cheat me if they know there is little chance of getting caught.

Made one slight change and 100% agree.

It depends huge on where the women grew up and where they were educated.

East coast women? NYC women? Hell yeah, wouldn't trust em with 5 bucks.

I'm speaking to the USA as a whole. SA is no different than a regular girl in a bar or a girl in a library in my eyes.

SA = bar girl = educated Ivy League girl IMHO. So even arrangements seem like better deals when it comes to a relationship.

Post: #346

(05-01-2013 08:52 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 08:33 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 08:31 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 07:33 AM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  A person with integrity will be honest and refrain from stabbing me in the back if he\she can benefit.

My assumption, based on extensive experience with women, is that women in general will stab me in the back if it benefits them. They will cheat me if they know there is little chance of getting caught.

Made one slight change and 100% agree.

It depends huge on where the women grew up and where they were educated.

East coast women? NYC women? Hell yeah, wouldn't trust em with 5 bucks.

I'm speaking to the USA as a whole. SA is no different than a regular girl in a bar or a girl in a library in my eyes.

SA = bar girl = educated Ivy League girl IMHO. So even arrangements seem like better deals when it comes to a relationship.

But it's not true. Small town girls from the South or Midwest are definitely better relationship quality than the East Coast cities.

Only problem is they still suffer from American woman flaws: fighty, unfeminine, and lacking any sort of house-management skills.

And on top it, if you get sick of their shit after twenty years then you're gonna get divorce-raped. So ultimately, even though they are better women it's still not worth the risk.

Post: #347

(05-02-1974 10:55 AM)Samseau Wrote:  So ultimately, even though they are better women it's still not worth the risk.

This is why they are all the same to me.

Post: #348

What this is really about is a prejudice against American women. What you guys are saying is that the probability of an American woman fucking you over in some way is very high so you might as well fuck her over first. You meet a woman and the ASSUMPTION is that she will take advantage of you in some way at some point. Prejudices are a product of personal experience. If you got mugged five times by Mexicans then ye, every time you see a Mexican the assumption will be that he's likely a mugger and you will treat him as such. I understand this mentally well, I use to have one about Latin women in Miami - there were a pain in ass. The funny thing is, once I decided to let it go and stop "prejudging" them they turned out to be not as bad as I remembered. We affect every interaction by how we enter it. If I meet a Latin girl and is thinking that she is going to be a pain in the ass then guess what, she's more likely to be exactly that. In many ways our expectations about people and situations are self-fulfilling because we subconsciously create that which we seek. Like I said, I am not passing a judgement on anyone but be careful of all prejudices in life. As I recently told a woman: If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got.

Post: #349

Here's the thing. I've never been burned by a girl (worst thing was a girl going psycho and reading all my emails and breaking stuff when she got upset) but never emotionally scared so to speak, I have however seen many close friends get burned hard, you can learn from what you see go down. I'm basing my actions on the current environment. You are assuming that I am basing this on personal experience when really I got this mindset from intense observation.

Women usually say things like "who hurt you in your past etc etc" to me and I always respond with the same answer. "No one, I am just not stupid". I'm not jaded at all life is good, every day is getting better and I'm happier everyday.

We can agree to disagree. SA = girl next door = bar slut in my mind. They are all the same. So I see nothing wrong with SA game. It's genius.

(05-01-2013 10:48 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  What this is really about is a prejudice against American women. What you guys are saying is that the probability of an American woman fucking you over in some way is very high so you might as well fuck her over first. You meet a woman and the ASSUMPTION is that she will take advantage of you in some way at some point. Prejudices are a product of personal experience. If you got mugged five times by Mexicans then ye, every time you see a Mexican the assumption will be that he's likely a mugger and you will treat him as such. I understand this mentally well, I use to have one about Latin women in Miami - there were a pain in ass. The funny thing is, once I decided to let it go and stop "prejudging" them they turned out to be not as bad as I remembered. We affect every interaction by how we enter it. If I meet a Latin girl and is thinking that she is going to be a pain in the ass then guess what, she's more likely to be exactly that. In many ways our expectations about people and situations are self-fulfilling because we subconsciously create that which we seek. Like I said, I am not passing a judgement on anyone but be careful of all prejudices in life. As I recently told a woman: If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got.

Post: #350

(05-01-2013 10:48 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  What this is really about is a prejudice against American women. What you guys are saying is that the probability of an American woman fucking you over in some way is very high so you might as well fuck her over first. You meet a woman and the ASSUMPTION is that she will take advantage of you in some way at some point. Prejudices are a product of personal experience. If you got mugged five times by Mexicans then ye, every time you see a Mexican the assumption will be that he's likely a mugger and you will treat him as such. I understand this mentally well, I use to have one about Latin women in Miami - there were a pain in ass. The funny thing is, once I decided to let it go and stop "prejudging" them they turned out to be not as bad as I remembered. We affect every interaction by how we enter it. If I meet a Latin girl and is thinking that she is going to be a pain in the ass then guess what, she's more likely to be exactly that. In many ways our expectations about people and situations are self-fulfilling because we subconsciously create that which we seek. Like I said, I am not passing a judgement on anyone but be careful of all prejudices in life. As I recently told a woman: If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got.

That's cool, but I prefer reality