Post: #1

Browing through forum archives today I stumbled across this post by hydrogonian, who was having trouble coming to terms with his experiences with women. It reminded me of a famous Opera.

(06-17-2010 06:51 AM)hydrogonian Wrote:  I didn't ever want to feel contempt for women... I always wanted to give each individual her fair chance. But I feel that I can cut out a lot of time and headache by just assuming every single one has no real character ... and treat her accordingly. However, this is a sad way to exist...

Whats your perspective?
Whats the solution?

Mozart's character Don Alfonso, a cynical old player, offers this advice to two young men (Ferrando, Guglielmo) who are angry and despondent after having their illusions shattered:

Don Alfonso
Well then, take them as they are:
Nature can't make exceptions
And create two women of a different stuff
Just to suit your tastes: in such matters
You must be philosophical.
Come along then;
Let's find a way
Of putting things together.
Tonight I still want to see
A double wedding;
Meanwhile listen to my song:
Take heed, and you'll be happy.

(Andante)

Don Alfonso
Everyone blames women, but I forgive them
If they change their love
A thousand times a day;
Some call it a sin, others a habit,
But I say it's a necessity of their heart.
The lover who finds that he's been deceived
Should blame not others
But his own mistake;
Whether they're young or old, fair or plain –
Repeat with me: They all act that way!

Ferrando, Guglielmo and Don Alfonso
Così fan tutte!






Note 1: I modified the translation slightly from this translation source. Here is the original italian (librettist: Lorenzo da Ponte)

Note 2: Alfonso does recommend marriage, although it's probably worth noting that he himself was NOT married, and that marriage in the 18th century Holy Roman Empire was probably less of a risk for men than it is today.

Note 3: The full title of the opera and literal translation is: Così fan tutte, ossia La scuola degli amanti (Thus Do They All, or The School For Lovers). Most of the show is Ferrando and Guglielmo in disguise, with Alfonso teaching them how to seduce their own girlfriends.

Post: #2

Here's the dialogue leading up to the previous clip, from a different production of the show.

Post: #3

(02-26-2013 05:33 PM)Blaster Wrote:  Browing through forum archives today I stumbled across this post by hydrogonian, who was having trouble coming to terms with his experiences with women. It reminded me of a famous Opera.

(06-17-2010 06:51 AM)hydrogonian Wrote:  I didn't ever want to feel contempt for women... I always wanted to give each individual her fair chance. But I feel that I can cut out a lot of time and headache by just assuming every single one has no real character ... and treat her accordingly. However, this is a sad way to exist...

Whats your perspective?
Whats the solution?

Mozart's character Don Alfonso, a cynical old player, offers this advice to two young men (Ferrando, Guglielmo) who are angry and despondent after having their illusions shattered:

Don Alfonso
Well then, take them as they are:
Nature can't make exceptions
And create two women of a different stuff
Just to suit your tastes: in such matters
You must be philosophical.
Come along then;
Let's find a way
Of putting things together.
Tonight I still want to see
A double wedding;
Meanwhile listen to my song:
Take heed, and you'll be happy.

(Andante)

Don Alfonso
Everyone blames women, but I forgive them
If they change their love
A thousand times a day;
Some call it a sin, others a habit,
But I say it's a necessity of their heart.
The lover who finds that he's been deceived
Should blame not others
But his own mistake;
Whether they're young or old, fair or plain –
Repeat with me: They all act that way!

Ferrando, Guglielmo and Don Alfonso
Così fan tutte!






Note 1: I modified the translation slightly from this translation source. Here is the original italian (librettist: Lorenzo da Ponte)

Note 2: Alfonso does recommend marriage, although it's probably worth noting that he himself was NOT married, and that marriage in the 18th century Holy Roman Empire was probably less of a risk for men than it is today.

Note 3: The full title of the opera and literal translation is: Così fan tutte, ossia La scuola degli amanti (Thus Do They All, or The School For Lovers). Most of the show is Ferrando and Guglielmo in disguise, with Alfonso teaching them how to seduce their own girlfriends.

Good stuff. It is unreasonable to be angry at women for being inferior. You wouldn't blame an infant for crapping his pants because he isn't capable of doing better. It is like railing against death, disease, aging. It is just part of how the world is made, even if we might like a world where our lives aren't so closely intertwined with a creature that is essentially just a beast and lacks the qualities that distinguishes men from animals.

Post: #4

NEVER THOUGHT I'D SEE THE DAY WHERE I STARTED DIGGING SOME OPERA.

Never. (Maybe these high society folks is on to something)

Good find.

WIA

(02-26-2013 05:33 PM)Blaster Wrote:  Browing through forum archives today I stumbled across this post by hydrogonian, who was having trouble coming to terms with his experiences with women. It reminded me of a famous Opera.

(06-17-2010 06:51 AM)hydrogonian Wrote:  I didn't ever want to feel contempt for women... I always wanted to give each individual her fair chance. But I feel that I can cut out a lot of time and headache by just assuming every single one has no real character ... and treat her accordingly. However, this is a sad way to exist...

Whats your perspective?
Whats the solution?

Mozart's character Don Alfonso, a cynical old player, offers this advice to two young men (Ferrando, Guglielmo) who are angry and despondent after having their illusions shattered:

Don Alfonso
Well then, take them as they are:
Nature can't make exceptions
And create two women of a different stuff
Just to suit your tastes: in such matters
You must be philosophical.
Come along then;
Let's find a way
Of putting things together.
Tonight I still want to see
A double wedding;
Meanwhile listen to my song:
Take heed, and you'll be happy.

(Andante)

Don Alfonso
Everyone blames women, but I forgive them
If they change their love
A thousand times a day;
Some call it a sin, others a habit,
But I say it's a necessity of their heart.
The lover who finds that he's been deceived
Should blame not others
But his own mistake;
Whether they're young or old, fair or plain –
Repeat with me: They all act that way!

Ferrando, Guglielmo and Don Alfonso
Così fan tutte!






Note 1: I modified the translation slightly from this translation source. Here is the original italian (librettist: Lorenzo da Ponte)

Note 2: Alfonso does recommend marriage, although it's probably worth noting that he himself was NOT married, and that marriage in the 18th century Holy Roman Empire was probably less of a risk for men than it is today.

Note 3: The full title of the opera and literal translation is: Così fan tutte, ossia La scuola degli amanti (Thus Do They All, or The School For Lovers). Most of the show is Ferrando and Guglielmo in disguise, with Alfonso teaching them how to seduce their own girlfriends.

Post: #5

I'm a big opera fan. Most operas have a lot of red pill wisdom in them. Relationships are portrayed quite accurately in operas. Women are mostly liars and cheats. Men are mostly romantic chumps.

Post: #6

A lot of operatic arias talk shit about women. La donna e mobile, one of the most cliched, famous ones talks about how wayward and unworthy of trust women are:





TRANSLATION:

Quote:Woman is flighty
Like a feather in the wind,
She changes her voice — and her mind.
Always sweet,
Pretty face,
In tears or in laughter, — she is always lying.
Always miserable
Is he who trusts her,
He who confides in her — his unwary heart!
Yet one never feels
Fully happy
Who on that bosom — does not drink love!

Titty slurping. Old-school.

Post: #7

Tutto e diposto from Le Nozze di Figaro is another good one.

Mad shit talking. Second part is where he really cuts loose. Best part starts @1:36





TRANSLATION:

Quote:Everything is set:
the hour should be near;
I can hear people... it is her!
It's nobody;
The night is dark...
and I am just beginning to practice
the stupid work of being a husband...
You ungrateful!
While remembering my ceremony
he was enjoying in reading:
And while I was seeing it I was laughing
at me without knowing it.
Oh, Susanna! Susanna!
What a great suffering you cost me!
With your ingenuous face,
with your innocent eyes,
who would imagine it?
Ah, that it's foul to trust in a woman.

Open your eyes,
you incautious and stupid men
Look at these women
Look what they are!
These you call goddesses
with deceived senses,
to whom the weak reason
tributes incenses.
They are witches who enchant
only to make us pain,
Sirens who sing
to draw us,
Owls who attract
to take out our feathers
Comets who shine
to take our light away,
they're thorny roses
they're charming foxes
they're benign bears,
malign doves,
masters in cheating
friends of worries
who pretend, lie,
don't feel any love,
don't feel any pity,
no, no, no, no, no!
I don't tell all the rest,
anybody knows that.

Post: #8

Haha yes that is a good one. It is subverted in context, though, by the convoluted ruses going on. Figaro has been (temporarily) fooled by the women, who are trying to trap the Count red-handed by wearing disguises and swapping roles. None of the women in Figaro are ever actually unfaithful. (Figaro does pay back Susanna for fooling him, though. And of course-- sometimes it's hard to tell whether more weight is given to the ruse itself or its plausibility.)

Another moment I found hilarious is the climax of Act 2 in La Traviata. Alfredo has oneitis for Violetta and somehow they windup spending a year together in love. She leaves him and he gets so pissed that at a party, he wins a whole pile of cash playing cards and then, in front of everyone, throws the cash at Violetta and declares himself "paid in full." In context, though, the whole thing is rather female-primary. Violetta is supposed to be genuinely in love with Alfredo and a victim of circumstance, meanwhile virtually everyone else censures his improper treatment of a woman.

Then of course, there is The Magic Flute. Assorted themes include: matriarchy is evil, patriarchy is awesome, women should not seek to rise above their rightful station, and darkies are lying rapists. Probably my favorite part about Flute is that the two main characters fall in love with each other without having met. Tamino falls in love based on a tiny portrait of beauty. Pamina falls in love because she hears Tamino is a prince. This one is often considered good for kids because it's got animal costumes.

Quote:SARASTRO
she is an arrogant woman. –
A man must guide your heart,
for without that, every woman
tends to overstep her natural sphere.