Post: #1

I've had some interesting experiences in my local area this past year. Due to circumstances I cannot change at the moment, I'm stuck in an area that is a total cock-fest. I notice how women's attitudes here are terrible, most are Grade-A bitches when I talk to them, they're bitchy towards everybody, and approaching them is useless these days.

I remember going out in other places and having good luck pulling women. Some cities where women will chat with you and have a good time. Build rapport and such.

But around here, it's like a desert. I think I've been too hard on myself, thinking maybe my game isn't tight, or maybe I've gained weight.

I'm not as strong as I could be. I'm not the biggest guy at the bar.

But something happened last night that felt good.

The biggest guy at the bar, arguably the best looking guy at the bar walked over and approached some fat ugly chicks. And they were bitchy to him. Not too bitchy though, they obviously were wet for him.

It suddenly clicked that it's not me. This area is terrible. Women here are so scarce and ugly that 3s are acting like 10s.

That's no environment to meet people.

I'm not crazy, this place is shit.

Post: #2

The reality is that most women don't go out with the intention of meeting men to fuck anymore. They go out for attention and validation from men, cheap/free drinks, to take pictures of themselves and their girlfriends to post on Facebook, and because they don't want to feel like a loser by sitting at home on the weekend.

They're present in body, but not in mind or spirit. Smartphones not only exacerbate this tendency, but are the glaring evidence for it. While you're posted up at the bar looking around for girls to approach and you notice half of them glued to their iPhones, who do you think they're talking to? Their grandmother? Fuck no. They're texting the primary guy(s) on their radar. That's their major focus and where their attention is going. The guy on the other end of the phone is the one occupying her thoughts. You being physically present and approaching her means very little, because her mind is fixated on some other guy.

This is why your game must be seriously on point these days to pull attractive women exclusively with night game. Pulling a 7+ from a bar or club these days is harder than it's ever been, and this trend shows no sign of slowing or reversing in my opinion. Women automatically assume every guy who approaches them in a bar is a desperate chode. Otherwise, why would they be approaching? Why are they even out? They think that if the guy who was approaching them was actually desirable, he would be sitting at home texting girls and not putting himself through the indignity and hassle of approaching random girls in a bar, like the guy they are texting with is doing. The texting obsession has made women perceive approaching them at a bar seem try-hard and desperate in comparison. The reality is that every time you talk to a girl who would rather be texting, you are getting AMOGed by some guy sitting on his couch or wherever. The very act of approaching in bars is becoming a borderline DLV unless executed with the finesse of a practiced player.

This is why I think you (and pretty much every guy for that matter) would be better off focusing on day game, building a social circle/microfame niche, online game (as shitty as it can be your ROI will be higher than night game if you have a good profile) and more unconventional/early night game, like hitting up happy hours and social events. These alternatives work so well because, as Roosh points out in Day Bang, the indirect approaches and elderly openers you can deliver in these situations are not only extremely effective, but they don't convey the same unspoken DLV that approaching at night now does, and don't trigger the same level of bitch shield. She will respond like a normal girl would respond to a man, not like she would to a guy she automatically assumes to be a creepy, desperate chode who has not other options.

I don't think that night game is entirely dead, but the alternatives as much better in comparison. If you spent 10 hours over the course of a week running night game in bars and clubs, you'd be lucky these days to get a single ONS from a 6, and in the process deal with massive amounts of attitude, cockblocking, bitch shields, disrespect and all the other bullshit that goes along with night game. Putting in 10 solid hours of day game in a good location on the other hand, will not only allow you to bypass most of the bullshit, but will result in much higher quality interactions from the women you approach, because they won't be in the mindset of, "Must be on high alert for creepy guys trying to talk to me! Better off just texting my ex-bf/fuckbuddy."

Edit: I forgot to add, if you are going to hit the bars and clubs for some night game, do it on T/W/Th. Girls who go out during the week are much more open to actually meeting men and aren't as likely to just be there to text and take pictures.

Post: #3

That is an A+ post scorpion. I'm still in the noobie stage of game and have noticed alot of what you said. Nothing quite like being at a bar that's totally bumping at the moment, and i see flocks of lizards all on their phones together. What the hell man? Can't they do that at home? O wait, there is no groups of guys buying them drinks and inflating their egos at home on the couch. What a world we live in these days.

I've been having way more success (If you can call a few numbers success) during the day. Chances are I'm probably the first person to approach them that day and buy them a drink.
Just kidding, my days of buying women drinks died with my betatude haha.
And grats RedPillSchool on figuring out it was your logistics that were cock blocking you, it must have been pretty discouraging bro.
Cheers guys, good luck this Friday

Edit: that's a good idea with the t/w/th scorpion I'll have to give it a try since I'm always sticking to f/sa

Post: #4

(02-08-2013 12:46 PM)RedPillSchool Wrote:  I've had some interesting experiences in my local area this past year. Due to circumstances I cannot change at the moment, I'm stuck in an area that is a total cock-fest. I notice how women's attitudes here are terrible, most are Grade-A bitches when I talk to them, they're bitchy towards everybody, and approaching them is useless these days.

I remember going out in other places and having good luck pulling women. Some cities where women will chat with you and have a good time. Build rapport and such.

But around here, it's like a desert. I think I've been too hard on myself, thinking maybe my game isn't tight, or maybe I've gained weight.

I'm not as strong as I could be. I'm not the biggest guy at the bar.

But something happened last night that felt good.

The biggest guy at the bar, arguably the best looking guy at the bar walked over and approached some fat ugly chicks. And they were bitchy to him. Not too bitchy though, they obviously were wet for him.

It suddenly clicked that it's not me. This area is terrible. Women here are so scarce and ugly that 3s are acting like 10s.

That's no environment to meet people.

I'm not crazy, this place is shit.

Took me a long time to realize that it's not me, it's them. Still have to remind myself of that.

Post: #5

Red, I hope you don't mind me asking but what city are you in?

Post: #6

We as men, NEED to stop giving these women the time of day. Personally I'd rather jack it in the corner of a club than give these women (<7s) the validation of opening them, even if i'm only 'warming up'. Think how much worse it will get if good-looking guys continue to approach 3s... their inflated sense of self-worth and entitlement is already sickening.

I would have told that guy 'it's OK man, those girls respond best in their natural habitat - you'll have better success at Mcdonalds in a few hours.'

Post: #7

It's like a guy selling a water on the top of the mountain. can he charge a lot more and give attitudes to the customer who complains? absolutely.
If you don't like it, you shouldn't go or should work under that circumstances since you can't change them

I was at this bar. it was very good that night. all the girls were young and in shape.
Those ghetto looking fat girls walked in. They were hanging out by themselves and nobody gave any attentions. I could even tell they were embarrassed being there.

If they were at clubs, I am sure they would have different behavior because some black guys or immigrant guys would still give them attentions.

Bottom line, it's not just about finding places with hot women. you should find a place where guys with high standards hang out.

Post: #8

(02-08-2013 01:28 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Edit: I forgot to add, if you are going to hit the bars and clubs for some night game, do it on T/W/Th. Girls who go out during the week are much more open to actually meeting men and aren't as likely to just be there to text and take pictures.

This is true.

We've made Friday nights a "men's night" where the three of us go out and get some food, shoot some shit with the waitresses and bar staff, have a good time in each other's company discussing plans for the future and business ideas, etc.

Then we head out to a bar and we give the women there no attention. Absolutely no attention whatsoever. Whether we're standing at the bar chatting and laughing with each other or sitting down on one of the sofas doing the same, chicks realise we're having a decent night, we're not needy betas and we're not validating any attention seeking whores.

This gets girls approaching us. We don't go out on Fridays looking to pull, we go to have a good time much like a lot of these girls do. When they see three well dressed guys having a laugh and taking all the value in the bar, it drives them mental because they can't figure out why we're not chatting girls up. We look like guys who should be but we're not, and it's not because we're too scared or don't rate ourselves, it's because it's genuinely not on our agenda.

We don't look frustrated or like we're waiting for things to spice up in the bar to be able to hit on girls and we don't look or get affected if we leave the bar with no numbers or girls, or even if we're sitting there having a laugh and no girls have spoken to us. A lot of average guys get stiff and frustrated if they don't get any attention back and chalk the night off as a failure, even if they don't have a goal or game.

Girls can sense that. We get checked out a lot and continue laughing with each other until eventually we get approached and maybe give them a bit of time.

Reverse psychology.

Post: #9

(02-08-2013 12:46 PM)RedPillSchool Wrote:  I've had some interesting experiences in my local area this past year. Due to circumstances I cannot change at the moment, I'm stuck in an area that is a total cock-fest. I notice how women's attitudes here are terrible, most are Grade-A bitches when I talk to them, they're bitchy towards everybody, and approaching them is useless these days.

I remember going out in other places and having good luck pulling women. Some cities where women will chat with you and have a good time. Build rapport and such.

But around here, it's like a desert. I think I've been too hard on myself, thinking maybe my game isn't tight, or maybe I've gained weight.

I'm not as strong as I could be. I'm not the biggest guy at the bar.

But something happened last night that felt good.

The biggest guy at the bar, arguably the best looking guy at the bar walked over and approached some fat ugly chicks. And they were bitchy to him. Not too bitchy though, they obviously were wet for him.

It suddenly clicked that it's not me. This area is terrible. Women here are so scarce and ugly that 3s are acting like 10s.

That's no environment to meet people.

I'm not crazy, this place is shit.

You need to go places where there is a variety of hot and ugly chicks. A girl will know her standing in the presence of hotter women. They have eyes just like men. Accordingly, their bitch levels go down when they see you could easily be talking to hotter women. I've seen it all first hand and it got me a ONS at a super bowl party that had 9s and 10s and I banged a 6.5-7

Post: #10

(02-08-2013 01:28 PM)scorpion Wrote:  The reality is that most women don't go out with the intention of meeting men to fuck anymore. They go out for attention and validation from men, cheap/free drinks, to take pictures of themselves and their girlfriends to post on Facebook, and because they don't want to feel like a loser by sitting at home on the weekend.

There's an excellent blog "Dusk in Autumn" which discusses this change:

"Boys and girls live in totally separate worlds today. I can't think of any counter-examples to that big picture, except for the fact that girls are much more likely to have a gay friend these days. So I'm restricting this to boy-girl interactions or relationships where both are straight...

- Boys and girls don't hang out in public in groups of friends. It's either a group of guys or group of girls (perhaps with some gays). I don't even notice cars that carry a mix of young guys and girls. That must reflect a lower level of mixed-sex social circles than before....

- At house parties or in dance clubs and bars, girls don't leave their friends alone. If they get the sense that one of their friends wants to slip away and pair up with a boy, whether for something light or heavy, they become cock blocks -- a phrase that did not exist before because there was rarely such a thing. They steal the friend back, or sometimes just walk off as a group, knowing that the girl (being a girl) cannot take being stranded by her clique and will fall in line behind them. In mixed-sex times, they would've left her alone, and if not, she would've told them to mind their own business, get a life of their own, etc.

- In the same settings as above, girls form tight circles meant to keep the world out, rather than having a more open formation like when they used to be boy-crazy. Watch a school dance or night club scene from any '80s teen movie, and notice how absent this is. Today even if there are only two girls, they face each other at close distance, closing out the rest of the world. I recall this closed formation only during 6th grade dances. It's as though teenage and 20-something girls today haven't socially matured beyond the level of middle schoolers when it comes to interacting with boys -- and therefore, boys haven't matured either for want of contact with girls.

What is a more open formation? Standing side by side, making a semi-circle, etc., showing your openness to being approached. The closed formation holds even in totally safe settings, and times are incredibly safer now anyway, so this is not simply a shift to deal with a greater level of danger at parties or clubs.

- There's all that terrible "girls gotta stick together" music that blew up with the Spice Girls in the '90s, although you could probably find some less popular examples from the early-mid '90s (like Queen Latifah's "U.N.I.T.Y"). The girl groups from the '60s through the '80s didn't sing about that at all -- they were boy-crazy and fought against other girls over their dream boys, which was reflected in myriad "choose me over her" song lyrics. In the '90s and 2000s, girl singers were either of the "girls united" camp or the "it's all about how hot I am" camp. Barf me out."

Link

Post: #11

(02-09-2013 04:45 AM)MattC Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 01:28 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Edit: I forgot to add, if you are going to hit the bars and clubs for some night game, do it on T/W/Th. Girls who go out during the week are much more open to actually meeting men and aren't as likely to just be there to text and take pictures.

This is true.

We've made Friday nights a "men's night" where the three of us go out and get some food, shoot some shit with the waitresses and bar staff, have a good time in each other's company discussing plans for the future and business ideas, etc.

Then we head out to a bar and we give the women there no attention. Absolutely no attention whatsoever. Whether we're standing at the bar chatting and laughing with each other or sitting down on one of the sofas doing the same, chicks realise we're having a decent night, we're not needy betas and we're not validating any attention seeking whores.

This gets girls approaching us. We don't go out on Fridays looking to pull, we go to have a good time much like a lot of these girls do. When they see three well dressed guys having a laugh and taking all the value in the bar, it drives them mental because they can't figure out why we're not chatting girls up. We look like guys who should be but we're not, and it's not because we're too scared or don't rate ourselves, it's because it's genuinely not on our agenda.

We don't look frustrated or like we're waiting for things to spice up in the bar to be able to hit on girls and we don't look or get affected if we leave the bar with no numbers or girls, or even if we're sitting there having a laugh and no girls have spoken to us. A lot of average guys get stiff and frustrated if they don't get any attention back and chalk the night off as a failure, even if they don't have a goal or game.

Girls can sense that. We get checked out a lot and continue laughing with each other until eventually we get approached and maybe give them a bit of time.

Reverse psychology.

A friend and I used to do this a lot back in the day before he moved away. As he was married he wasn't really checking out the talent so we'd just bullshit about various things. Eventually broads would start approaching and several said later that they couldn't understand why I wasn't checking them out at the saloon.

"Because I wasn't looking for anything."

I think this is where the saying "You find it when you are not looking for it" comes from as most guys, and broads for that matter, are not players or do not know how to game. They are busy with friends, working on something, etc and a broad falls in their lap.

They don't understand that she fell into their lap because they were not paying attention to her.

Hell, I was out snowmobiling with some buddies and a broad approached me outside as I was starting my sled. Helmet on and everything. Asked where we were going next.

Met her there and banged her out a night or two later.

Said she was intrigued because I paid her absolutely no attention when we were in the bar. She was hot and knew it so it flustered her methinks.

Not suggesting that this is a super high percentage tactic for a guy to employ, but it does work well at times.

Of course, just because she approaches doesn't make it a gimme. A guy needs to have some game to close them out.

A lot will think a guy is married if he isn't hitting on or at least checking out broads, so you need to not fumble that shit.

Post: #12

Thanks, Scorpion and others, this is GRADE A advice.

Sorry Sucio, I rather not divulge where I am.