Post: #1

Anyone here train there brain with "Lumosity" or any other apps/sites like it?

I want to be able to have intense focus, great recall, etc. effortlessly and that's what these programs look to improve. Anyways, what are your guys takes on this?

Post: #2

In for this as well. I wouldnt mind giving this a try.

Post: #3

if you want to train your brain do it will useful things like studying other languages or reading non fiction books/articles on just about any subject..

Post: #4

The more I read about brain training the less it seems to mean anything. If you think it'd be fun, do it (I played with dual n-back for a while and it was work, but I'm not convinced it helped me do anything but get better at dual n-back), but do it for free (android's got a couple free n-back apps) and keep in mind lots and lots of interview like this and pretty much no conclusive peer-reviewed results showing that it works.

Physical activity is likely do do much more for your brain than "brain games". Seriously.

Post: #5

(12-17-2012 05:11 PM)Stitch Wrote:  The more I read about brain training the less it seems to mean anything. If you think it'd be fun, do it (I played with dual n-back for a while and it was work, but I'm not convinced it helped me do anything but get better at dual n-back), but do it for free (android's got a couple free n-back apps) and keep in mind lots and lots of interview like this and pretty much no conclusive peer-reviewed results showing that it works.

Physical activity is likely do do much more for your brain than "brain games". Seriously.

How can physical activity do more for your brain?

Post: #6

Quote:Brain training doesn't boost brain power, work suggests

Brain training games do not improve overall brain power, a scientific study launched by the BBC suggests.
The largest ever investigation followed 11,430 people over six weeks to see what effect, if any, playing brain training computer games would have.
While players got progressively better at the games, the gains were not transferable, Nature journal reports.
Players gained nothing in terms of general reasoning, memory, planning or visuospatial abilities, experts found.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8630588.stm

I did Lumosity and felt some improvements, but I think that was more placebo than anything, so I just cancelled. The above article cites some contrarian evidence to the effectiveness of the whole brain game thing basically saying that you're basically just mastering the games, but not gaining anything that is transferable to other intellectual domains. Like someone said before reading difficult texts, learning a new language, and learning a new instrument maybe far more effective in the long-run.

Post: #7

Meditation. Research from Harvard, UCLA, etc. shown that it changes brain in the region responsible for executive function - improving self-discipline and focus.

Post: #8

I'm familiar with this field, as well as what I assume are the papers comebackkid mentioned.

The improvements are very very marginal.

Your time is better spent on things which have results you can measure (as in, in books read, words learned), and learning material which is rewarding (learning an instrument, developing positive habits).

Exerting willpower will improve your willpower, and willpower itself will, to a point, make it easier to focus and remember.

Post: #9

(12-19-2012 04:41 PM)Moma Wrote:  How can physical activity do more for your brain?

Well, from a quick search:

http://www.livescience.com/6340-exercise...brain.html:

Quote:During the fifth week, the monkeys completed cognitive tests in which they had to choose which covered objects contained a food reward underneath. Monkeys that exercised were twice as fast at this task as those who didn't exercise.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12595152:

Quote:Three groups of studies were constituted on the basis of the type of exercise protocol employed. Each group was then evaluated in terms of information-processing theory. It was concluded that submaximal aerobic exercise performed for periods up to 60 min facilitate specific aspects of information processing;

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15159540

Quote:We present evidence that voluntary exercise can prime adult dorsal root ganglion neurons for increased axonal regeneration through a neurotrophin-dependent mechanism. Dorsal root ganglion neurons showed an increase in neurite outgrowth when cultured from animals that had undergone 3 or 7 days of exercise compared with sedentary animals. Neurite length over 18-22 h in culture correlated directly with the distance that animals ran. The exercise-conditioned animals also showed enhanced regrowth of axons after an in vivo nerve crush injury. Sensory ganglia from the 3- and 7-day-exercised animals contained higher brain-derived neurotrophic factor, neurotrophin 3, synapsin I, and GAP43 mRNA levels than those from sedentary animals.

Given that studies of brain-game effects on the brain are inconclusive, I'm going for the exercise option.

Post: #10

(12-20-2012 03:17 AM)storm Wrote:  I'm familiar with this field, as well as what I assume are the papers comebackkid mentioned.

The improvements are very very marginal.

Your time is better spent on things which have results you can measure (as in, in books read, words learned), and learning material which is rewarding (learning an instrument, developing positive habits).

Exerting willpower will improve your willpower, and willpower itself will, to a point, make it easier to focus and remember.

Are you referring to meditation? Reading a book or learning an instrument do not have nearly the same effects on the mind.

(12-20-2012 03:46 AM)Stitch Wrote:  

(12-19-2012 04:41 PM)Moma Wrote:  How can physical activity do more for your brain?

Well, from a quick search:

http://www.livescience.com/6340-exercise...brain.html:

Quote:During the fifth week, the monkeys completed cognitive tests in which they had to choose which covered objects contained a food reward underneath. Monkeys that exercised were twice as fast at this task as those who didn't exercise.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12595152:

Quote:Three groups of studies were constituted on the basis of the type of exercise protocol employed. Each group was then evaluated in terms of information-processing theory. It was concluded that submaximal aerobic exercise performed for periods up to 60 min facilitate specific aspects of information processing;

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15159540

Quote:We present evidence that voluntary exercise can prime adult dorsal root ganglion neurons for increased axonal regeneration through a neurotrophin-dependent mechanism. Dorsal root ganglion neurons showed an increase in neurite outgrowth when cultured from animals that had undergone 3 or 7 days of exercise compared with sedentary animals. Neurite length over 18-22 h in culture correlated directly with the distance that animals ran. The exercise-conditioned animals also showed enhanced regrowth of axons after an in vivo nerve crush injury. Sensory ganglia from the 3- and 7-day-exercised animals contained higher brain-derived neurotrophic factor, neurotrophin 3, synapsin I, and GAP43 mRNA levels than those from sedentary animals.

Given that studies of brain-game effects on the brain are inconclusive, I'm going for the exercise option.

A healthy body leads to a healthy brain (and vice versa) thus maximizing your mind's existing potential. Exercising does not however expand your brain's already existing capabilities. You should already be exercising anyways.

In regards to the thread, in elementary and middle school there was an advanced class that some kids were in and they taught us things like reasoning, logic, etc. using different puzzles and games and whatnot. They would also focus on teaching word roots and their meanings rather than giving us lists of vocabulary to memorize. At the time we were all ungrateful assholes but it really helped me to think on a higher level from then on. I've been meaning to find some similar stuff to play with on my own.

There's a big difference between being well read and developing higher level thinking, in my opinion.

Post: #11

To get better at processing info quickly:

1) Read deeper into subjects.
2) Read widely about subjects.
3) Know how those subjects relate to other subjects.


We lean information in association with other bits of information. Learning a math formula is going to be impossible whilst the information is all arbitrary - but when you associate it with history (who found it) application (what it is used for) and physics (why the hell it matters) the info. is stored in your brain better.

There aren't really short cuts to being smart - People who are better read know more things, people who practice math problems are better at computing equations, and people that think ahead are one step ahead.

Post: #12

Quote:You should already be exercising anyways.

But people don't; common sense is not the same as common action, but that wasn't the point. The question was how physical activity can do more for the brain than brain games, which is the question I answered: it improves brain function in specific ways which are more broad-reaching than "brain games".

Yes, meditation also improves brain function in specific ways which are more broad-reaching than "brain games"; so does learning an instrument, learning a new language, and many other activities. A mind which meditates but knows nothing is useless (arguably more so than one which learns an instrument or a new language).

In any case, actively pursuing just about anything will improve willpower or "grit", which if you're concerned about general achievement is probably more important than any of the above activities, as Storm implies.

Post: #13

The best mind training possible is meditation. This has been know in the East for centuries. Most westerners are still ignorant of this but are changing as western science comes in with the hard data. I use to use a machine that had glasses with a light display so that a combination of sounds and lights would put you in a meditative state, but it really doesn’t work that well. For long term results, you have to learn meditation and do the hard work yourself. I meditate an hour every day and every year I do a 10 day Goenka Vipassana retreat which is pretty intensive – about 10 hours a day of meditation for 10 days. I also periodically do a few long sits where I sit motionless for over an hour to increase my tolerance to pain. Meditation is a broad function that increases your entire thinking process at the most general level. It doesn’t deal with content but with the underlying mechanism of mind that affects everything you do.

Here is a website that has a lot of scientific information on how meditation changes the brain and neuroplasticity. Go to the tools section.

http://www.wisebrain.org/

Post: #14

Meditation is good stuff; I don't debate that part. I had one of those "brain glasses" things too--actually pretty cool the patterns you would get in your eyes, but it didn't do much for my head. I'm still on the low end of meditation times, but after seeing the data on permanent neuroplasticity, I'm starting to bring it up.

Post: #15

(12-20-2012 07:05 AM)Stitch Wrote:  

Quote:You should already be exercising anyways.

But people don't; common sense is not the same as common action, but that wasn't the point. The question was how physical activity can do more for the brain than brain games, which is the question I answered: it improves brain function in specific ways which are more broad-reaching than "brain games".

Yes, meditation also improves brain function in specific ways which are more broad-reaching than "brain games"; so does learning an instrument, learning a new language, and many other activities. A mind which meditates but knows nothing is useless (arguably more so than one which learns an instrument or a new language).

In any case, actively pursuing just about anything will improve willpower or "grit", which if you're concerned about general achievement is probably more important than any of the above activities, as Storm implies.

No, I agree that "brain games" as in Lumosity do no help. I do think certain puzzles, problem solving exercises, etc. can help though.

I realize that everyone does not exercise though it should be one of the cornerstones of personal development and maintenance. My point is that it is not going to make your brain stronger than it is currently capable which is what brain games claim to do (though we agree that they do not). It will only allow you to better utilize what you already have.

Meditation, learning a new language, reading stimulating literature, solving problems...these are things that actually expand the mind.

Post: #16

Agreed (and I'll also highly agree with you that meditation has been shown to change the brain and seems to be very beneficial; when studies say things like this, it makes me very interested:

Quote:a group randomly assigned to 5 days of meditation practice with the integrative body–mind training method shows significantly better attention and control of stress than a similarly chosen control group given relaxation training. ... Compared with the control group, the experimental group of 40 undergraduate Chinese students given 5 days of 20-min integrative training showed greater improvement in conflict scores on the Attention Network Test, lower anxiety, depression, anger, and fatigue, and higher vigor on the Profile of Mood States scale, a significant decrease in stress-related cortisol, and an increase in immunoreactivity.

or

Quote:A recent study at Massachusetts General Hospital showed that practicing meditation for twenty-seven minutes a day created lasting brain changes in… eight weeks.

Intriguing. I'm still working up my times, though; it's amusing to be doing this late in life because it reminds me of being a kid and sitting quietly in the library and then being told that I wasn't allowed to just "sit and think", I needed to be reading something. Sigh.

Post: #17

I took a look at this luminosity thing.

First of all, it's based on a research that hasn't been finished yet(look in the NY Times for an article about it). So basically, a company has invented a product around a theory, hyping it to the maximum, making advertisment everywhere.

Second of all, I tried the program and I'm not impressed. I don't see how common video games don't do the exact same thing. Worse, I would'nt waste my time on it, I'd rather do real things like read a book or work, which requires all the same brain function they're trying to "train" with their games.

Post: #18

Alpha, Theta and Delta waves are good for brain training. I am on Alpha for a month and it makes me feel more in the moment, calm, relax yet alert. Basically extended meditation does produce alpha and theta waves. Google it.

Post: #19

Hi guys!

My first post here!
So, my opinion is I'd take what bbc says with a grain of salt, provided its solid role in the propaganda machine of the ultra liberal, consumerist regime. They do not want you to be clever as simple as that.
Everyone knows, practicing simple arithmetic trains the brain to be flexible and quick.
Word recalling games train memory.
Word recalling and arithmetic is the foundation of almost all human intellectual activity.
Also 3 times a week for 10 minutes each as they did it in the test, is way not enough.
Keep doing it half an hour every day and see the results for yourself!
Also playing regular video games do not make you practice arithmetic and linguistic skills. They do have a great chance to make you have ADHD though.

Post: #20

(01-08-2013 11:54 AM)Pappy Wrote:  I took a look at this luminosity thing.

First of all, it's based on a research that hasn't been finished yet(look in the NY Times for an article about it). So basically, a company has invented a product around a theory, hyping it to the maximum, making advertisment everywhere.

Second of all, I tried the program and I'm not impressed. I don't see how common video games don't do the exact same thing. Worse, I would'nt waste my time on it, I'd rather do real things like read a book or work, which requires all the same brain function they're trying to "train" with their games.

Exactly what I said earlier. The biggest problem with the idea of brain training is that there are no easy ways to measure improvement.

With lifting you have lb's of weights, size of biceps, but how does a layman tell if anything has changed in their mind? Until there are powerful tools to answer that question I don't think brain training is worth anybody's time.

After all, there are established documented and reliable methods for strength training and many people still fail to make gains.

Post: #21

(02-02-2013 08:07 AM)storm Wrote:  

(01-08-2013 11:54 AM)Pappy Wrote:  I took a look at this luminosity thing.

First of all, it's based on a research that hasn't been finished yet(look in the NY Times for an article about it). So basically, a company has invented a product around a theory, hyping it to the maximum, making advertisment everywhere.

Second of all, I tried the program and I'm not impressed. I don't see how common video games don't do the exact same thing. Worse, I would'nt waste my time on it, I'd rather do real things like read a book or work, which requires all the same brain function they're trying to "train" with their games.

Exactly what I said earlier. The biggest problem with the idea of brain training is that there are no easy ways to measure improvement.

With lifting you have lb's of weights, size of biceps, but how does a layman tell if anything has changed in their mind? Until there are powerful tools to answer that question I don't think brain training is worth anybody's time.

After all, there are established documented and reliable methods for strength training and many people still fail to make gains.

I think it's impossible for a person to undergo a strength training program and not make gains. Some may have the propensity for greater gains than others and will gain more under the same training intensity but to say there are groups that will make zero gains is unbelievable to me.

Regarding intelligence, there are tests that can be done. I definitely believe in the arithmetic training, I used to do little exercises at home that would expediate my ability to perform quick calculations in the head. This helps with decision making in this choice laden society we know live in.
There are so many fake brands mixed in with genuine brands, it's up to the individual to rapidly validate a choice we make as we are faced with decisions.
The quicker the validation plus the more accurate it is, is a testimony to our increased intelligence.

You can correlate it to game. The sharper our game is, the quick we detect attention whores and cockblockers and sidestep them for those who are not time wasters.

Nothing is absolute but it is merely a way of improving efficiency.

Post: #22

Bump. Anyone doing brain training? Luminosity, dual n back?

Post: #23

I am looking for better ways to train my brain. The thing is some methods are extremely boring and can destroy my mood for the day.

I for some years try to work with fast upbeat music. After some time the brain can filter the music so that the frontal cortex may still function. The limbic system still get´s it´s emotional kick so the mood is on a good level.

It works as background music to almost everything I do. Additionally it´s fundamental for me to be energized for sport and in general.

I think the reason is our ears are very close to our emotional system. That´s why it´s easy to manipulate it. Though I don´t know if it´s good in the long run.

Post: #24

(12-19-2012 04:41 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(12-17-2012 05:11 PM)Stitch Wrote:  The more I read about brain training the less it seems to mean anything. If you think it'd be fun, do it (I played with dual n-back for a while and it was work, but I'm not convinced it helped me do anything but get better at dual n-back), but do it for free (android's got a couple free n-back apps) and keep in mind lots and lots of interview like this and pretty much no conclusive peer-reviewed results showing that it works.

Physical activity is likely do do much more for your brain than "brain games". Seriously.

How can physical activity do more for your brain?

To do an exercise, a program has to be first made in your brain.

When you exercise, the frontal lobe sends information to the pre-motor cortex which then goes to the motor cortex which then sends a volley of different signals to all the muscles involved in the movement of the exercise.

As you continue the exercise, the brain 'learns' the movement, and becomes more comfortable with it. In order to make this program easier to fire off the next, the nerves in the brain involved in that particular program start growing roots (synapses) towards each other. This allows them to connect more easily with each other, which makes the movement easier to do in future too (which is why some sports skills become easier with practice, and also partly how weight training works - it's not enough having big muscles, you need big nerves to drive them).

This root growth is stimulated by a growth factor, called neurotropin.

However, the brain is locked in a container (the skull) and is floating about in brain soup (cerebrospinal fluid). A lot of the neurotropin leaks out of the motor control areas, and through the circulation of the soup, end up in areas of the brain that are completely unrelated to exercise.

This extra neurotropin ends up stimulating neural growth in the 'wrong' parts of the brain. The memory centres of the brain are particularly reliant upon and sensitive to neurotropin. Nerves create memories by growing roots and joining up with one another. The extra neurotropin ends up stimulating memory centres, and improving memory recall.

This is why exercise improves memory and to some extent other brain functions. Research has consistently shown that exercise improves memory.

Post: #25

While I have only tried luminosity briefly myself, I am excited about the prospect of gamifying your learning and brain training is an great idea.

Knowing that cognitive function can be trained, much like how your muscle in your bicep is trained, there are things you can do with your mind. You can think faster, retrieve memories faster (creating mental shortcuts and anchors much like in NLP), and do complex math equations in your mind. Not sure if I can link you directly but google or youtube "Faster than a calculator" and you'll find a TedxTalk on this.

A few of the other posters above recommended reading, particularly in a broad array of subjects and being able to inter-relate and synthesize them more difficult concepts and theory on your own is a key one. This relates to learning and critical thinking in general, although how measurable this is is debatable. I would start with entry level university textbooks for this type of information but usually can be found online as well. If you opt to buy such textbooks, look for used books from graduated students. The other is meditation, one area I am still working on and I find this is more for mental clarity.

However, for quick application of what you might want in terms of improving memory function:
Learn a language is perhaps your best bet for this. The added benefits of learning a new language is potentially enormous and my personal recommendation would be the Duolingo app as it also helps you build a daily habit which further improves your cognitive ability.

The other recommendation is to do practice LSAT questions.
I'm no lawyer, but I find it provides an unique challenge and quite enjoyable to test myself on their logic games. There are a variety of online practice exams and even apps you can download with answers or videos that explain and allows you to work on your own time. Practice getting a faster time on similar type logic questions would be an example of a method I employ to work my brain.

Some type of strategic games might be useful as well. A few examples would be mastering Chess (highly complex game with many possible layers) and mahjong (which highly emphasize memory and paying attention, there is a HARD DIFFICULTY variant where thrown tiles are turned face down or "burned" so that players must commit the discarded tiles to memory or risk trying to call a dead hand). If you want more of this, just google anti-aging brain games.

The final tip would be to make sure you get your fish oils as it has been proven for improving brain health. I don't think I need to expand on this issue much as many here on the forum vouch and support the daily dose of fish oils.

The brain is also unlike the rest of our bodies, in that it continues to grow albeit at a slower pace than in our adolescence years, but still astounding that it STILL DOES GROW. Training your brain daily well into your adult years and some studies have started to prove to delay the onset of "old-age" diseases like Alzheimer's or cognitive impairment.

The possibilities are endless if you just look a little further.