Post: #1

Starbucks has a new $7 "premium" coffee. Jimmy Kimmel's crew goes out and has random people do a taste test between two cups of coffee to see if they can tell which one is the more "premium" $7 flavor.

In reality, the "premium" $7 coffee is not even in the taste test-they just took a regular, cheap brand of coffee and put it in both cups. The taste testers don't know this-they're told that one of the cups has the $7 flavor.

Despite the fact that they're only drinking two different cups of cheap coffee, people still somehow find a way to rationalize paying more for one cup over the other.

The video:





It is amazing how easily fooled some folks are, but it does provide some good insight into the machinations of a good capitalist/consumer society. Capitalize on the gullibility of the average folk and one can get them to consume en masse and yield a large profit without any need to provide a meaningful increase in quality/function.

You don't even need to really justify higher product prices yourself if you've got a strong brand identity-people will find a way to justify their handing you more of their money for that particular product, even if you've given them absolutely no reason to. In this case, Starbucks could market crappy coffee for $7 and still have folks convincing themselves that it has a "richer" flavor, or some other BS.

Regardless of what they come up with, the producers are getting paid, especially with a little bit of clever marketing added on. Human gullibility is a powerful moneymaking tool when exploited properly.

Post: #2

This is my feeling about Apple products and the people who buy them. I particularly hate the "I'm so cool for overpaying" attitude.

Though to be fair, every company knows their customer is stupid. In my old company, we never really paid much attention to what customers said because it never matched their actions.

Btw, Athlone you're pretty much getting to the fundamental core of what branding is, it's getting people to pay more because it makes them feel good based on their perceived relationship with the brand. I believe if you want to make a lot of money, get good at branding.

Post: #3

Nice post Athlone, with very apt timing, as we descend on the holiday season. Along the same lines, its always amazing the depths people go to in order to get supposed "deals". Ripping each other to shreds for Chinese made trinkets and demonstrating absolutely no decorum towards their fellow man. The more I think about it the more it seems that the end game of corporations is to turn us into mindless atoms of consumption, devoid of abstract thought, while making us slaves to technology. This video below illustrates exactly what I am talking about, with people going batshit over a few modest cell phone deals:





The objective of these corporations is being realized more and more.

Post: #4

Well, I think only certain types of people go to Starbucks religiously. They're probably the same ones who refuse to get any generic food, clothes, etc. Gotta have a brand name cup or bag of chips. I remember someone on here clowning Wal Mart boxers last year and saying girls notice those kinds of things. Like a bitch is gonna close her legs up when she sees the Hanes logo lol.

Post: #5

Skinner had an experiment where he would randomly give a pigeon a food pellet regardless of what it was doing. It ended up developing very strange habits.

In any case, coffee shops aren't about the taste or the price of the coffee.

Post: #6

I use this shit in a lot of aspects in my life: I have a brand and image that I put out and people buy the bullshit all the time.

But.. fuck hype and trends.

You realize how insignificant you are the more and more you look and act like everybody else. It's lonely being a outlier at time but you enjoy life more seeking out truth and quality in all things.

Being a Sheep or trend whore trying to keep up with the Joneses whom don't know any better eventually leads somebody to this:





Nature always wins.

Post: #7

capitalism or the "free market" is a similar evolutionary environment with entities i.e. companies or states/republics competing for resources (mostly money).
making a huge investment to reach something will make the anticipation bigger and reaching the goal more satisfying. bigger emotional response.
if you want a coffee, and you only allow it to yourself after you have accomplished another task of your daily schedule. will your satisfaction be higher tasting the coffee afterwards? yes
i think this is what females want to achieve, when they dont put out. if you have to make a huge investment, you anticipate a great reward. like a self fullfilling prophecy, the reward you achieve gets +2 on the satisfaction level. it works. if you have options you can reduce your investment and get a bang somewhere else.
i think its linked to the postponed reward stuff. if your an instant reward type, you wont put up with long term investments.

there are evolutionary theories trying to unify the evolution of complex systems (human mating, corporate-world,......) interesting stuff, and seem quite logic

Post: #8

(11-28-2012 10:29 PM)cibo Wrote:  This is my feeling about Apple products and the people who buy them. I particularly hate the "I'm so cool for overpaying" attitude.

Though to be fair, every company knows their customer is stupid. In my old company, we never really paid much attention to what customers said because it never matched their actions.

Btw, Athlone you're pretty much getting to the fundamental core of what branding is, it's getting people to pay more because it makes them feel good based on their perceived relationship with the brand. I believe if you want to make a lot of money, get good at branding.

I used to think Apple was for freaks and hipsters. Then I started using OS X in 2008 and had my "a ha" moment. And I think it's safe to say the build quality and attention to detail on their hardware is top notch.

Not really the same thing as overcharging for coffee grounds and hot water.

These days I think the most annoying people among tech consumers are those that hate all things Apple because it's now cool to hate Apple. As if it makes you a "man of the people" or something. Some people happily fork over more money to drive a BMW 3 series instead of a Honda Accord. I personally think it's a waste of money because my priorities are different, but I don't hate them, and I acknowledge that BMW builds a great car.

Post: #9

(11-28-2012 11:54 PM)Phil Wrote:  I used to think Apple was for freaks and hipsters.

Exactly, real hipsters use vinyl.

Post: #10

I was surprised to learn that a full third of the forum uses Apple computers.

I bet this guy uses an Apple computer too:

   

Post: #11

(11-29-2012 12:20 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  I was surprised to learn that a full third of the forum uses Apple computers.

I bet this guy uses an Apple computer too:

I made a post in the forum lounge just the other day about my non-use of Apple products:

Quote:Apple must really hate me - I have a desktop computer instead of an iPad, a CD burner and a stereo instead of an iPod, and a basic cellphone instead of an iPhone. I've never downloaded a song using iTunes, either.

Post: #12

Apple's success has in a real way made PR more difficult. As people have discovered their products and their OS, the company has become an 800 lb. gorilla instead of the plucky underdog. To think Microsoft used to be THE company in the industry! The tallest poppy gets cut down, as the adage goes.

Post: #13

I don't mind paying a bit extra for the assurance of quality, i.e. famous brand name known for consistency and whatever. With that said, I mean primarily stuff like Toshiba computers with their bold warranties, or BMW or Volvo cars known for their durability, and similar things. I'll also pay a bit extra for some luxury stuff, like a fine hot chocolate and cake in a seaside caffe in Cannes, and enjoy it because of the percieved luxury, but I won't have any illusions that these products are more tasty than elsewhere in the world.

Not things without any tangible difference, like $7 Starbucks coffee, $150 Nike sneakers or cameras and plasma screens with 30 extra pixels. In all of those cases, even if a difference did exist, you'd have to possess superhuman senses to ever notice it!

Post: #14

I use to go to Starbucks for the cafe latte until I discovered how ridiculously easy it is to make it yourself and the stuff I make tastes just as good to me.

http://allrecipes.com/recipe/cafe-latte/

Post: #15

(11-28-2012 11:54 PM)Phil Wrote:  

(11-28-2012 10:29 PM)cibo Wrote:  This is my feeling about Apple products and the people who buy them. I particularly hate the "I'm so cool for overpaying" attitude.

Though to be fair, every company knows their customer is stupid. In my old company, we never really paid much attention to what customers said because it never matched their actions.

Btw, Athlone you're pretty much getting to the fundamental core of what branding is, it's getting people to pay more because it makes them feel good based on their perceived relationship with the brand. I believe if you want to make a lot of money, get good at branding.

I used to think Apple was for freaks and hipsters. Then I started using OS X in 2008 and had my "a ha" moment. And I think it's safe to say the build quality and attention to detail on their hardware is top notch.

Not really the same thing as overcharging for coffee grounds and hot water.

These days I think the most annoying people among tech consumers are those that hate all things Apple because it's now cool to hate Apple. As if it makes you a "man of the people" or something. Some people happily fork over more money to drive a BMW 3 series instead of a Honda Accord. I personally think it's a waste of money because my priorities are different, but I don't hate them, and I acknowledge that BMW builds a great car.

I have the same opinion. I used windows for many years and bought my first mac 2 years ago. OsX is worth the premium price, using windows there were a lot of problems I never had with the mac, in particular virus and malwares

Post: #16

I agree with the OP and have always thought that Starbucks is selling a fast food product at premium prices. And getting away with it. Now you might think this is exploitation, evil etc. etc., but tell me: Do you think you will be able to start a company and sell crap, or to be fair just regular goods, at premium prices? No way! You'd be laughed out of the marketplace. It may seem that Starbucks is doing this effortlessly, but the things that seem most effortless usually require the most effort. Think of them what you will, but there are strategy and marketing geniuses beavering away in Seattle to achieve what seems so effortless.

Also, if you think capitalism is bad you may want to consider the alternatives. I have had some contact in the past with people who have lived through the most extreme forms of socialism, National Socialism (Nazi's) and "left wing" socialism (communism essentially). I think that you'd be more than happy to live with $7 latte's when faced with the alternatives. Besides, be like most "financially conservative" people and buy your coffee, if you must, at McD's. Problem solved.

Post: #17

True they do have expensive coffee, but you have people hanging out there for hours without table/seat turnover so they need to make money somehow. Spending $7 for a latte etc is nothing compared to spending that money in a bar.

But the theme is how branding makes people oblivious that there are equal or better products out there. Or a brain washed culture that cannot think anymore for themselves.

Post: #18

I don't have a problem with Starbucks offering a $7 a cup coffee as its a consumers choice to purchase such a thing. I do have a problem with people who go to Starbucks regularly bitching about such things like gas prices. I have found Starbucks coffee to be no better than Dunkin Donuts or any run of the mill place that sells coffee. I consider them to be the Beats Headphones of Coffee.

Post: #19

(11-29-2012 12:20 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  I was surprised to learn that a full third of the forum uses Apple computers.

I bet this guy uses an Apple computer too:

Roosh?

Post: #20

(11-29-2012 01:09 PM)NYJ Wrote:  I don't have a problem with Starbucks offering a $7 a cup coffee as its a consumers choice to purchase such a thing. I do have a problem with people who go to Starbucks regularly bitching about such things like gas prices. I have found Starbucks coffee to be no better than Dunkin Donuts or any run of the mill place that sells coffee. I consider them to be the Beats Headphones of Coffee.

Yes. As long as we're on the subject of things we don't understand, I don't get the Beats wearers at the gym. They're rocking those big ear muffs on their heads like they're in a recording studio when they're actually wandering around THE GYM. My ears would overheat. Is this what passes for peacocking?

Ear buds seem much better choices for working out. With a good pair connected via bluetooth to your ipod you forget you're wearing them.

Post: #21

(11-29-2012 02:38 PM)Phil Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 01:09 PM)NYJ Wrote:  I don't have a problem with Starbucks offering a $7 a cup coffee as its a consumers choice to purchase such a thing. I do have a problem with people who go to Starbucks regularly bitching about such things like gas prices. I have found Starbucks coffee to be no better than Dunkin Donuts or any run of the mill place that sells coffee. I consider them to be the Beats Headphones of Coffee.

Yes. As long as we're on the subject of things we don't understand, I don't get the Beats wearers at the gym. They're rocking those big ear muffs on their heads like they're in a recording studio when they're actually wandering around THE GYM. My ears would overheat. Is this what passes for peacocking?

Ear buds seem much better choices for working out. With a good pair connected via bluetooth to your ipod you forget you're wearing them.

I don't think they realize or care how ridiculous they look. If you see someone wearing any of the over the ear Beats headphones they're never doing anything that would count as strenuous. I wear Klipsch S4s when I'm at the gym. Fit and sound great plugged into my phone. Good bang for the buck too.

Post: #22

Hmm...

people have always been fooled. Others have always tried to score money off the stupidity of their fellow men. There is nothing new here.

I'd hypothesize that changing social norms, a combination of lower stigmatization and economic costs (ie. moral decay, lax judicial system, etc.) to individuals for disregarding social norms has reduced the opportunity cost of bad behavior and cheating others, to the extent that we see more crime, fraud, adultery, vandalism, destruction of private property than before. The fact that the value of higher education is also severely inflated, meaning most college seniors know less than high school grads of fifty year ago, just exacerbates this problem.

Of course, this is nothing compared to how people in other countries are subject to fraud. You'd be shocked at the amount of inefficiency in third world countries simply because people can't trust anyone to whom their not related. Overcoming this hurdle is one of the main reasons the West rose above the others.

Post: #23

Quote:Of course, this is nothing compared to how people in other countries are subject to fraud. You'd be shocked at the amount of inefficiency in third world countries simply because people can't trust anyone to whom their not related. Overcoming this hurdle is one of the main reasons the West rose above the others.

Brilliant summary. This is one of the most important factors of civilization, and one of the reasons why today's sexual market (with its utter devastation of trust and cooperation) will probably lead to its downfall.

Post: #24

(11-28-2012 09:53 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  Starbucks has a new $7 "premium" coffee. Jimmy Kimmel's crew goes out and has random people do a taste test between two cups of coffee to see if they can tell which one is the more "premium" $7 flavor.

In reality, the "premium" $7 coffee is not even in the taste test-they just took a regular, cheap brand of coffee and put it in both cups. The taste testers don't know this-they're told that one of the cups has the $7 flavor.

Despite the fact that they're only drinking two different cups of cheap coffee, people still somehow find a way to rationalize paying more for one cup over the other.

It is amazing how easily fooled some folks are, but it does provide some good insight into the machinations of a good capitalist/consumer society. Capitalize on the gullibility of the average folk and one can get them to consume en masse and yield a large profit without any need to provide a meaningful increase in quality/function.

You don't even need to really justify higher product prices yourself if you've got a strong brand identity-people will find a way to justify their handing you more of their money for that particular product, even if you've given them absolutely no reason to. In this case, Starbucks could market crappy coffee for $7 and still have folks convincing themselves that it has a "richer" flavor, or some other BS.

Regardless of what they come up with, the producers are getting paid, especially with a little bit of clever marketing added on. Human gullibility is a powerful moneymaking tool when exploited properly.

I like Athlone, he is a great contributor to the forum, but here's my reaction.

So fuckin what?

In fact, I think it's great that Starbucks can do this. You know what that means? More barista jobs for the useless college grads who get BAs in Feminist Studies and Communications.

Seriously, it's a bit of old hat to say capitalism is manipulative and, by inference, bad bad BAD!! because it gets people to do things they really shouldn't want to do. Guess what? People will ALWAYS fuckin' do what they really shouldn't want to do. It's inherent in the species.

Capitalism has done a lot of other things. For example it has given us

--Steel
--the telephone
--dishwashers
--Great cars today that don't break down
--Laser color printers under $500
--fantastic choices in restaurants
--ATMs
--computers under $500 today that would have cost $50,000 25 years ago.

Really, the list could go on and on and on. Remember, I am 60. I remember how things used to be when I was a kid. And you know how things used to be?

They used to suck.

Your choices in food, clothing, and entertainment were limited. (We thought it was a miracle when UHF channels came into being).

You would never call long distance because it would cost a small fortune. And get your index finger ready, because you had to spin the dial.

To get cash you had to stand in line at the bank.

In college, I wrote my papers on a manual typewriter. When I got an electric typewriter, I thought it was the greatest thing ever.

On a winter's day you had to go out and warm up your car, and there was always a chance with its antiquated carbuerator technology, it wouldn't start. Of course, in order to do so you had to shovel by hand the 3 feet of snow on your sidewalk to get to your fuckin' car because no one had snowblowers.

Again, I could on, but you get the point.

Capitalism is about providing products and services to people, to give people choices -- and, yes, to allow the providers of those products and services to get rich. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, it's the worst economic system except for all the others.

If somebody wants to market $7 coffee, and someone wants to buy it, be my fuckin' guest. This is what makes modern society, and the United States of American, great.

Post: #25

(11-28-2012 09:53 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  any need to provide a meaningful increase in quality/function.

You can add value to someone's life without improving function/quality.

As long as those guys THINK they're having a better coffee, then you have added value.

Look, I think there are a lot of things wrong with modern Western capitalism (here and in the States), but of all the existing economic systems it's still the best, and sometimes you need to compare it to the other EXISTING economies (not some ideal one that doesn't exist) to really notice how great we have it.

You look at it as a negative aspect of late stage capitalism, but I look at it this way: the Western brand of capitalism has done such a good job of covering the basic, functional needs of a large sector of it's populace (food, shelter, productivity, etc)***, that now the next step in distinguishing yourself as a firm is providing for other needs- social, emotional and relating to status. All of those people who would buy a premium make of coffee over a normal cheaper one have all of their functional needs covered (or they should, before they spend extra on something like coffee).

I think there's a Warren Buffett quote about how pretty much all of us have it better materially than JD Rockerfeller, who may have been the richest man in history. Can't see that happening without some form of capitalism.

I don't disagree with a lot of things you say wrt social/political issues, but this one I do.

***I realize there still some work to be done here for the poorest, especially in regards to health care.