Post: #1

An article by JFK from 1960.

I wonder what he would think these days.

Quote:Especially disheartening were the results of the five strength tests: 35.7% of American children failed one or more of these, while only 1.1% of the Europeans failed, and among Austrian and Swiss youth the rate of failure was as low as .5%.

Quote:But the harsh fact of the matter is that there is also an increasingly large number of young Americans who are neglecting their bodies—whose physical fitness is not what it should be—who are getting soft. And such softness on the part of individual citizens can help to strip and destroy the vitality of a nation.

Quote:For physical fitness is not only one of the most important keys to a healthy body; it is the basis of dynamic and creative intellectual activity. The relationship between the soundness of the body and the activities of the mind is subtle and complex. Much is not yet understood. But we do know what the Greeks knew: that intelligence and skill can only function at the peak of their capacity when the body is healthy and strong; that hardy spirits and tough minds usually inhabit sound bodies.

Post: #2

Interesting find.

Post: #3

What kind of a strength test did they do? If it was pushups or something, then yeah, American kids would fail. They're fat.

Post: #4

Hand it to JFK.

If you released an article like that today every liberal group in the country would be in an uproar for fat-shaming today's youth like that. This country has endured too many decades of pseudo-therapists and pundits pushing this agenda of self-acceptance and encouraging submissive, wimpy behavior.

Post: #5

There's no question that physical fitness has been virtually eliminated from schools, and it's viewed as non-essential. When I was in elementary school you had to pass a fitness test - do a certain amount of pull-ups/chin-ups, sit-ups, push-ups, etc. You'd get a cool certificate for passing. Now, phys ed may not even be mandatory. After school activities have been eliminated due to budget constraints over the years, and we know that kids don't really get out and play anymore. They sit inside and play video games.

JFK was definitely big on physical fitness. Sports were a big part of their family - their beach football games were legendary. There's an upcoming documentary on Ethel Kennedy, where her daughters talk about her getting them involved in sports after Bobby was killed. The Shrivers started Special Olympics. As a nation we love sports and competition, but more for the entertainment/commercial aspects of it. But sports for the sake of fitness? Nope.

Post: #6

(09-29-2012 05:36 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  Hand it to JFK.

If you released an article like that today every liberal group in the country would be in an uproar for fat-shaming today's youth like that. This country has endured too many decades of pseudo-therapists and pundits pushing this agenda of self-acceptance and encouraging submissive, wimpy behavior.

I think this is true for both liberals and conservatives.

Like you say, great men of the left from the past would have nothing but disgust for what passes as the left in modern times. Modern liberal leaders don't compare well to men like JFK or FDR. It's all become a petty game about this or that victim or identity group. No grand ambitions like going to the moon, or the new deal. Just an endless cycle of this or that victim group being played against some other group, just to try to maintain/achieve power for those pulling the strings. It's disgusting.

And the right are hardly better. Who do they have to compare to Lincoln, or even Reagan?

Post: #7

Quote:Much is not yet understood. But we do know what the Greeks knew: that intelligence and skill can only function at the peak of their capacity when the body is healthy and strong; that hardy spirits and tough minds usually inhabit sound bodies.

Yes. So many people don't realize that Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle were all pretty jacked.

Socrates served in the army and fought in the Peloponnesian War. He hung out in the Lyceum, which is where naked men would wrestle all day.
Plato, in ancient Greek, translates to "Broad Shoulders". Apparently, Plato was a monstrous wrestler.
Aristotle trained Alexander the II who went on to conquer half the known world.


One mind = One Body

Post: #8

Phys ed could be so much more than before. They could teach you to gain muscles properly, eat right, train for cardio, etc., information that everyone is always looking for.

Post: #9

As true today as it was back then. Amazing how some things never change.

Post: #10

Do schools still require kids to take gym classes?

Post: #11

(10-01-2012 08:56 PM)houston Wrote:  Do schools still require kids to take gym classes?

Good question. Unless a kid plays on a sport team, I'm really not sure. Since I'm far removed from school, and don't have kids that attend, I couldn't answer this question.

Post: #12

Quote:Do schools still require kids to take gym classes?

It is in Canada (as far as I know) but I think participation in some sports is not mandatory.

When I was in school we had basic strength tests, as well as events like Jump Rope For Heart where we raised money for fitness and then competed against ourselves. It was fun.

I remember the fitness days were always full of fun competition. Rope climbs were a particular favorite.

I hate to say it but I know in private schools and schools in more affluent neighborhoods sports and fitness are hugely important. I always thought this a little backwards but what JFK was saying back then makes even more sense today then it did back then. Kids need to be challenged physically in order for them to grow mentally.

People now days have essentially just given up. Its almost a whole class of people that have just dropped out. Not good.

Post: #13

What annoys me is that American men are starting to apparently be seen in many parts of the world as metrosexual, soft pussies.. at least from some stuff I have read over the web..

I was on yahoo answers and there was a question about whether or not Aussie women liked American men, some of the people were laughing at that question as apparently Aussie men are seen as rugged real men compared to American men? wtf is up with that

Post: #14

Down under, I mean Australia and New Zealand, most males still firmly identify with the sporting elite, sports like Rugby Union, Rugby League and AFL prevail. These are tough physical sports and have probably done more to influence male body image and how males see themselves. Most of these guys are very buff and superfit and have probably done more to get young men pumping iron than anything else. Plus our climate is very condusive to outdoor activities, extreme sports, adventure sports, surfing. One only need look at how well both countries did in the last Olympics, most notably New Zealand who was number 3 per capita on the medal tally.

Post: #15

In America, gym class (physical education) is a joke. I have taught them. We don't educate students on how to take care of themselves physically, we just force them to exercise and often it makes them dislike working out even more.

Then, we send them to a lunch of pizza, soda, and cookies.

American public education is just babysitting so mommy and daddy can go to work.

Americans are soft because their lives are soft.

Post: #16

To be hard you have to train hard. For life. SO many of my friends that I grew up with are fat fucks now. Used to be fit, then just stopped training once HS sports were over. Same thing with the guys that went on to college sports. Very few keep at it. I have no idea why other than just having a weak mental attitude and other home life circumstances that have already been discussed ad nauseum.

Post: #17

(10-01-2012 09:28 PM)Laner Wrote:  I hate to say it but I know in private schools and schools in more affluent neighborhoods sports and fitness are hugely important. I always thought this a little backwards but what JFK was saying back then makes even more sense today then it did back then. Kids need to be challenged physically in order for them to grow mentally.

This is a consistent trend with the elite in the USA-they tend to buck the major negative trends that hit the average joe.

Exhibit A: Divorce epidemic? Not for the wealthy and well educated. They still marry relatively early and divorce at a rate well under the 50% everyone else is used to.

Exhibit B: Fattie epidemic? Their women are all still pretty fit. There's a surprisingly strong pushback against fat acceptance among the elite, which makes sense when you consider the options their men have-the women know a rotund body keeps an average dude in line, not a powerful, affluent one.

Exhibit C: High unemployment? The elite still find jobs no problem, via networking and credentials (your exposure to the worst aspects of our market can vary greatly-big difference between Stanford or Duke liberal arts degree and an equivalent from, say, Savannah State or SUNY Albany). All these folks need to do is work their way into an elite school (the vast majority of them will find their way into one), get by (good grades are gravy) and let the rest take care of itself.

You longing for a return to the older, "saner" ways, or something equivalent to the Mad Men fantasies of yore?
These folks aren't-they still kind of have it.

Post: #18

35% to 1%? I'm calling BS on that unless they specifically tailored it to the Europeans. Americans consistently beat out the world at all age levels in competitions, yet they are being beat that overwhelming of a margin?

Post: #19

(10-02-2012 01:45 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(10-01-2012 09:28 PM)Laner Wrote:  I hate to say it but I know in private schools and schools in more affluent neighborhoods sports and fitness are hugely important. I always thought this a little backwards but what JFK was saying back then makes even more sense today then it did back then. Kids need to be challenged physically in order for them to grow mentally.

This is a consistent trend with the elite in the USA-they tend to buck the major negative trends that hit the average joe.

Exhibit A: Divorce epidemic? Not for the wealthy and well educated. They still marry relatively early and divorce at a rate well under the 50% everyone else is used to.

Exhibit B: Fattie epidemic? Their women are all still pretty fit. There's a surprisingly strong pushback against fat acceptance among the elite, which makes sense when you consider the options their men have-the women know a rotund body keeps an average dude in line, not a powerful, affluent one.

Exhibit C: High unemployment? The elite still find jobs no problem, via networking and credentials (your exposure to the worst aspects of our market can vary greatly-big difference between Stanford or Duke liberal arts degree and an equivalent from, say, Savannah State or SUNY Albany). All these folks need to do is work their way into an elite school (the vast majority of them will find their way into one), get by (good grades are gravy) and let the rest take care of itself.

You longing for a return to the older, "saner" ways, or something equivalent to the Mad Men fantasies of yore?
These folks aren't-they still kind of have it.

Is this pretty much your plan Athlone?

Post: #20

(10-02-2012 01:48 PM)jammer Wrote:  35% to 1%? I'm calling BS on that unless they specifically tailored it to the Europeans. Americans consistently beat out the world at all age levels in competitions, yet they are being beat that overwhelming of a margin?

Our "best" owns the rest of the world, it's the rest of the country that's a bunch of pussies.

Post: #21

There's an old saying about the difference between the Russian/Soviet mindset to sports and the American.

In Russia, you get in shape to play sports.
In America, you play sports to get in shape.

What they mean is, in the USSR they had rigorous athletic training that covered General Physical Preparedness (GPP) starting at a young age. So no matter what, all children had a baseline of athleticism before pre-teen years when they would branch off and specialize in one sport for the rest of their lives. In the US, kids play a plethora of sports but without focus on GPP. Sports are often used as a tool to avoid being fat.

Post: #22

(10-02-2012 03:27 AM)LoveBug Wrote:  What annoys me is that American men are starting to apparently be seen in many parts of the world as metrosexual, soft pussies.. at least from some stuff I have read over the web..

I was on yahoo answers and there was a question about whether or not Aussie women liked American men, some of the people were laughing at that question as apparently Aussie men are seen as rugged real men compared to American men? wtf is up with that

Remember in Funny People, Set Rogan is like, "He's Australian, he's going to kill us! That's what they do down there, they just kill things!"

Post: #23

(10-02-2012 01:50 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  There's an old saying about the difference between the Russian/Soviet mindset to sports and the American.

In Russia, you get in shape to play sports.
In America, you play sports to get in shape.

What they mean is, in the USSR they had rigorous athletic training that covered General Physical Preparedness (GPP) starting at a young age. So no matter what, all children had a baseline of athleticism before pre-teen years when they would branch off and specialize in one sport for the rest of their lives. In the US, kids play a plethora of sports but without focus on GPP. Sports are often used as a tool to avoid being fat.

Absolutely correct. One of my wrestling coaches was a 3 time world champion and Olympic silver medalists from the USSR. We obviously trained the way he did, GPP (Wrestling in general is training in GPP) but he also noted that Americans would win in competition even when they shouldn't. IE Miracle on Ice, Rulon Gardner etc. He said American's will to win was stronger because Americans would compete out of love for a sport rather than being forced into it.

Post: #24

(10-02-2012 01:49 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

(10-02-2012 01:48 PM)jammer Wrote:  35% to 1%? I'm calling BS on that unless they specifically tailored it to the Europeans. Americans consistently beat out the world at all age levels in competitions, yet they are being beat that overwhelming of a margin?

Our "best" owns the rest of the world, it's the rest of the country that's a bunch of pussies.

I think about this a lot. We're an interesting country. We have some of the best minds, athletes, entrepeneurs, inventors, musicians, artists, on and on and on. Yet, the base population is utter garbage.

There's a line in Waking Life that applies to this, the old man is talking about why so few men acheive greatness. He offers, "Actually, the gap between say Plato or Nietzsche and the average human is greater than the gap between that chimpanzee and the average human". At the end of the speech he concludes with, "Why so few? Why so few humans acheive greatness? That question can be answered with another question: what is the most universal human characteristic? Fear? Or Laziness?"

Post: #25

(10-02-2012 01:45 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  This is a consistent trend with the elite in the USA-they tend to buck the major negative trends that hit the average joe.

Yeah, because of two words: self-discipline.

Major negative trends don't just hit the average joe. The average joe creates those trends through their own actions/inaction.