Post: #1

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/...ocid=msnhp

"Kimberly Rivera, a 30-year-old private who served three months in Iraq and came to Canada while on leave in 2007, was taken into custody at the Thousand Islands Bridge border station about 30 miles north of Watertown, N.Y., Reuters reported."

I'm curious as to what her punishment will be. A woman has never deserted before, so I'm wondering if she'll be cut any slack. It's also interesting that the Canadian government has no sympathy for her. While they welcomed true conscientious objectors during the Vietnam Era due to the draft, they don't see her as someone that was persecuted because she VOLUNTEERED, and only did 3 months in the first place - plenty of men have done two or more tours, and countless others have died or been severely injured and handicapped.

Post: #2

(09-21-2012 03:02 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/...ocid=msnhp

"Kimberly Rivera, a 30-year-old private who served three months in Iraq and came to Canada while on leave in 2007, was taken into custody at the Thousand Islands Bridge border station about 30 miles north of Watertown, N.Y., Reuters reported."

I'm curious as to what her punishment will be. A woman has never deserted before, so I'm wondering if she'll be cut any slack. It's also interesting that the Canadian government has no sympathy for her. While they welcomed true conscientious objectors during the Vietnam Era due to the draft, they don't see her as someone that was persecuted because she VOLUNTEERED, and only did 3 months in the first place - plenty of men have done two or more tours, and countless others have died or been severely injured and handicapped.

We don`t want her!

Post: #3

Keep this thread updated Timoteo. She needs to be locked up for being a coward after voluntarily signing up to play with the big boys.

Post: #4

If they only beheaded her like Ned Stark beheaded the deserter dude in Pilot, I am sure there won't be anymore deserters.

Post: #5

(09-25-2012 10:19 PM)houston Wrote:  Keep this thread updated Timoteo. She needs to be locked up for being a coward after voluntarily signing up to play with the big boys.

Are you volunteering to pay for it? Or do we all need to foot the bill?

Post: #6

(09-25-2012 11:21 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

(09-25-2012 10:19 PM)houston Wrote:  Keep this thread updated Timoteo. She needs to be locked up for being a coward after voluntarily signing up to play with the big boys.

Are you volunteering to pay for it? Or do we all need to foot the bill?

What do you suggest doing to her? Please be realistic and don't type out some idea that will never happen.

Post: #7

(09-25-2012 11:48 PM)houston Wrote:  

(09-25-2012 11:21 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

(09-25-2012 10:19 PM)houston Wrote:  Keep this thread updated Timoteo. She needs to be locked up for being a coward after voluntarily signing up to play with the big boys.

Are you volunteering to pay for it? Or do we all need to foot the bill?

What do you suggest doing to her? Please be realistic and don't type out some idea that will never happen.

Dishonorable discharge and that be the end of it. I think that's the route often taken these days.... Could tack on some community service.

I certainly don't suggest forcing the rest of the country to pay money out of their own pockets so she can be put in jail for a few months/years.

Post: #8

women you give them the right to vote and its all been downhill since then

Post: #9

(09-25-2012 10:19 PM)houston Wrote:  She needs to be locked up for being a coward after voluntarily signing up to play with the big boys.

Oh come on, we all know that she just ran away from the sexist fellow soldiers and "rape culture" that infests the military.

Post: #10

Punitive Articles of the UCMJ

Article 85—Desertion

“(a) Any member of the armed forces who—

(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently;

(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or

(3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another one of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States Note: This provision has been held not to state a separate offense by the United States Court of Military Appeals in United States v. Huff, 7 U.S.C.M.A. 247, 22 C.M.R. 37 (1956), is guilty of desertion.

(b) Any commissioned officer of the armed forces who, after tender of his resignation and before notice of its acceptance, quits his post or proper duties without leave and with intent to remain away therefrom permanently is guilty of desertion.

© Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.”

Guide Note: The offense of Desertion, under Article 85, carries a much greater punishment, than the offense of AWOL, under Article 86. Many people believe that if one is absent without authority for greater than 30 days, the offense changes from AWOL to Desertion, but that's not quite true.

The primary difference between the two offenses is "intent to remain away permanently." If one intends to return to "military control," one is guilty of "AWOL," under Article 86, not Desertion, under Article 85, even if they were away for ten years. The confusion derives from the fact that, if a member is absent without authority for longer than 30 days, the government (court-martial) is allowed to assume there was no intent to return. Therefore, the burden of proof that the accused intended to someday return to "military control" lies with the defense.

A person who is absent for just a day or two, then apprehended, could still be charged with the offense of Desertion, but the prosecution would have to show evidence that the accused intended to remain away permanently.

I bolded the sections I believe apply to her specifically. Being that she's been away since 2007, intent to remain away can be assumed. I'd need to see how other deserters were punished to get an idea of what her penalty should be. Our society is squeamish about punishing women in the same manner as men for similar offenses. Since there's no precedent for how a woman was punished for this, I'm really curious as to how they'll proceed. Obviously, we don't execute for this, but I'm wondering how they adjudicate these cases beyond court-martial/dishonorable discharge.

This is just another example of how chicks exist in their own dream world. She came into the military with this sense of idealism, and once the truth of how the world really is smacked her, she wanted out. I'm sure every soldier faces some kind of shock when actually witnessing the horrors of war, but they also walk in knowing it's going to be pretty horrific. Women generally serve in rear, support positions and usually aren't put directly in harm's way (Jessica Lynch and Shoshanna Johnson were part of a supply convoy when they were injured and taken hostage, and convoys obviously go through hostile areas), and other women may be injured when ordinance is launched into an area away from the front lines. It's one thing for a combat soldier to decide he doesn't want to be a part of an atrocity that he either witnesses or felt pressure to participate in (though I still can't condone deserting), but this bitch?

Post: #11

(09-26-2012 03:07 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  © Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.”

The question here is whether her desertion took place during a time of war? Remember, there has never been an official declaration of war made by congress. This question will be argued right up to the Supreme Court.

Post: #12

Wait, Canada has a military? I thought they just used the U.S forces for protection?

Post: #13

(09-26-2012 03:27 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(09-26-2012 03:07 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  © Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.”

The question here is whether her desertion took place during a time of war? Remember, there has never been an official declaration of war made by congress. This question will be argued right up to the Supreme Court.

Interesting point. The definition of "war" could be argued by her legal counsel. It could also be argued that the word war is synonymous with "conflict," or "military operation." This definitely bears watching.

Post: #14

Charged deserter sent to Fort Knox
Originally published May 29, 2009

By Justin M. Palk
News-Post Staff

Douglas Adam Dabney, who was wanted by the Army for desertion, is searched by a Maryland State Police Trooper during a traffic stop last week on Crestwood.

The man charged as an Army deserter after his arrest at a seat-belt checkpoint last week has been taken to Fort Knox, Ky.
Maryland State Police arrested Douglas A. Dabney on May 21 at the checkpoint on Crestwood Boulevard.

During the stop, police determined the Defense Department had issued a warrant for Dabney's arrest for desertion from the Army.

Dabney is a private stationed at Fort Gordon, Ga., according to the Fort Detrick Provost Marshal's Office.

Fort Detrick's Provost Marshal's Office is responsible for handling desertion and absent without leave arrests for northwest Maryland, including Frederick County, wrote Chuck Gordon, spokesman for Fort Detrick's U.S. Army Garrison, in an e-mail.

A soldier is generally considered AWOL when absent from their assigned duty post without a valid pass or leave for as little as a day, but less than 30 days, Gordon wrote. A soldier absent for more than 30 days is a deserter, and a warrant will be issued after his or her unit files the appropriate paperwork.

If the Provost Marshal's Office determines an AWOL soldier or a deserter isn't a flight risk, the soldier may be sent to Fort Knox without an escort, Gordon wrote.

The Provost Marshal’s Office escorted Dabney to Fort Knox on Friday, and turned him over to Fort Knox’s AWOL apprehension officer shortly after 11 p.m. that evening, according to the Provost Marshal’s office.

Desertion and being absent without leave are punishable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, Gordon wrote. Deserters and AWOL soldiers can be subject either to nonjudicial punishment, under Article 15 of the code, or a court-martial, depending on the circumstances and the intention of the soldier's unit.
________________________________________________________
I'm trying to find a story about a deserter being tried and charged, and so far this is the closest I've found - this guy got sent to Fort Knox, after being taken into custody in response to the warrant filed by the DOD. However, his case wasn't adjudicated yet. I've found other stories about deserters being arrested for civilian crimes, but nothing about a deserter going through the military process.

Post: #15

I used to do base chasing. The cross-country chasers would round the guys up when they were apprehended by local authorities. Back then most were given a Bad Conduct Discharge, or BCD. Also known as "Big Chicken Dinner". A short sentence usually ensued in a minimum security facility. Some of these cats would be gone for 5 years before getting in a vehicle stop or what not.

One cat came back after 10 years. He did voluntarily and got much less punishment. In fact, he stayed in, eventually reached the rank of Cpl, and reenlisted.

Most of the ones that were apprehended had done nothing with their lives, and had lived under the stress of the day they got caught.

There are other more slightly honorable ways to separate from the military if it that bad on an individual. I'm sure she'll come up with some bullshit female card during her defense, which will make the females serving proudly look bad.

Post: #16

(09-26-2012 04:58 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  I used to do base chasing. The cross-country chasers would round the guys up when they were apprehended by local authorities. Back then most were given a Bad Conduct Discharge, or BCD. Also known as "Big Chicken Dinner". A short sentence usually ensued in a minimum security facility. Some of these cats would be gone for 5 years before getting in a vehicle stop or what not.

One cat came back after 10 years. He did voluntarily and got much less punishment. In fact, he stayed in, eventually reached the rank of Cpl, and reenlisted.

Most of the ones that were apprehended had done nothing with their lives, and had lived under the stress of the day they got caught.

There are other more slightly honorable ways to separate from the military if it that bad on an individual. I'm sure she'll come up with some bullshit female card during her defense, which will make the females serving proudly look bad.

How did you feel about these people personally? Did you take a certain joy in chasing down deserters? Did you want to beat their asses? Or was it simply a duty that you didn't take personally?

Post: #17

I felt sorry for some of these guys. They built a life on a lie and it caught up them. One dude never told his wife, and when he got arrested she bailed. The job was more of a pain in the ass than anything. Lots of protocol, and it's never fun to watch some cat get the book thrown at them. They made a bad decision when young, not that I'm defending them.

Most were just wanting to do their short time and go home. Not everyone is cut out to be in the military, and the way I looked at it as they did the Corps a service by bouncing instead of being a shitbag tormenting a unit for 4 years.

The real punishment starts when they realize what a BCD is gonna do to the rest of their lives. Of feel shame by hearing honorable veterans tell stories, and they have to hold their head in shame.

Post: #18

(09-26-2012 05:50 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  I felt sorry for some of these guys. They built a life on a lie and it caught up them. One dude never told his wife, and when he got arrested she bailed. The job was more of a pain in the ass than anything. Lots of protocol, and it's never fun to watch some cat get the book thrown at them. They made a bad decision when young, not that I'm defending them.

Most were just wanting to do their short time and go home. Not everyone is cut out to be in the military, and the way I looked at it as they did the Corps a service by bouncing instead of being a shitbag tormenting a unit for 4 years.

The real punishment starts when they realize what a BCD is gonna do to the rest of their lives. Of feel shame by hearing honorable veterans tell stories, and they have to hold their head in shame.

For some reason I did a little time processing some guys that skipped out. It was in Norfolk VA aka No Fuck Vagina, which is one of the shittiest places in the world. I thought that the city they lived in had a lot to do with it. I also felt bad for those dudes.

I never understood why they looked so hard for those guys. If they really want to go, let them. It's legit that a lackadaisical guy is way more harmful.

Aloha!

Post: #19

(09-26-2012 05:59 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(09-26-2012 05:50 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  I felt sorry for some of these guys. They built a life on a lie and it caught up them. One dude never told his wife, and when he got arrested she bailed. The job was more of a pain in the ass than anything. Lots of protocol, and it's never fun to watch some cat get the book thrown at them. They made a bad decision when young, not that I'm defending them.

Most were just wanting to do their short time and go home. Not everyone is cut out to be in the military, and the way I looked at it as they did the Corps a service by bouncing instead of being a shitbag tormenting a unit for 4 years.

The real punishment starts when they realize what a BCD is gonna do to the rest of their lives. Of feel shame by hearing honorable veterans tell stories, and they have to hold their head in shame.

For some reason I did a little time processing some guys that skipped out. It was in Norfolk VA aka No Fuck Vagina, which is one of the shittiest places in the world. I thought that the city they lived in had a lot to do with it. I also felt bad for those dudes.

I never understood why they looked so hard for those guys. If they really want to go, let them. It's legit that a lackadaisical guy is way more harmful.

Aloha!

My guess would be that it's on principle, and as an example to others that consider deserting. They want to let you know that it's a real commitment to be taken seriously. Even if they don't punish severely, they want you to know that you'll face judgment.