Post: #1

Just a rant, feel free to chime in to agree or disagree.

I've had a few crappy jobs in my life. In other circumstances i would be wallowing in self-pity, but good thing i have my youth. Now i'm at a comfortable stage with some sort of job security, cool workmates and a snazzy job title.

It wasn't always like this. My first "real" job, that didn't involve me helping out my dad with his self-owned business, was flipping "healthy" burgers. They snuck in the sales training from day one. Don't ever let the customer just buy a burger - ask them if they want fries with that. Convince them to upsize. Service with a smile. Every move was engineered to get food onto their plates and their money into our tills.

It was an enjoyable sort of job, but definitely not where i wanted to be long term. Plus, working with a bunch of college hipsters really begins to grate on you. I left that job after 10 months.

---

My next job was not what i expected - quite simply i was sold a lie. I was job searching online and came across this one ad: "No experience necessary, $1000+ per week!". I should've known it was too good to be true, but being a poor, recent graduate i was grasping at straws. I dug out the old suit i wore to my high school formal and started ironing.

Things looked promising at first - the office wasn't in the snazziest location but they definitely had someone with an eye for interior design. And i wasn't the only one who turned up - there were about 30 people sitting around, waiting or filling forms. We ended up getting interviewed in groups of three, which took about five minutes, after which they say "you're hired!" and take you to meet the rest of the team. Next thing i know they're taking us in a car to some suburb 30 minutes away for "observation training" with people who already work there, smartly dressed, holding clipboards and, strangely, British accents. In my head i'm thinking WTF, but i don't want to make a bad impression so i just go with it.

Then we got down to the nitty gritty. We split up in pairs, newbies to oldies, and we started... knocking on doors. This went on for about an hour or so and i slowly got the picture - door to door sales, selling ELECTRICITY, of all things.

Of course my initial reaction was "Fuck this shit", but i hung around anyway. During lunch break (usually we just find a petrol station to get some food and eat it on the curb) they were going on about how their boss, the guy who interviewed me, was managing to save - not earn - $2000 a week with just this one "branch". They told us about the cars he drove, the trips they had, all that jazz. For a moment I forgot all the unpleasantness of door-to-door sales and thought about the possibilities. One of the other newbies said to me in private that this was bullshit and was leaving; he was the smarter one.

The next few weeks was a blur of sales training, bus trips and door knocking. This was where i learned ABC, not by watching some fake movie. Open, storytelling, smile, posture, greed, time constraints, keeping-up-with-the-joneses and finally, ultimately, CLOSE. Every morning it was the same, disguised as a "team-building" ritual where people share ideas, when in fact it was the same idea, everyday.

I also experienced the highs of closing. After getting them to sign on the dotted line and i walked off, i was doing the jiggy. All that struggle, hustling, conniving, manipulating became worth it. Who cared that each "sale" only netted me $30? That a "good" day was just 6 sales? During seven hours of walking from door to door? Rain and shine? All i had to do was get to "Leader" status, build a team of my own, and the people under me will be raking in the dough for me...

It wasn't until maybe the third week, finding myself exhausted from all the travel and unhealthy lunches, that i really thought hard - what other company promises rich rewards by roping in people under you? I'll spare you the google search - Pyramid schemes and Multi-level marketing. If you were good and worked your ass off you could buy your own racing team - My boss's boss, head of Australian Operations, did.

But I was no good. I worked my ass off, walked from door to fucking door and knocked on every one and tried every trick in the book. It was becoming clearer and clearer that the ROI in this job wasn't going to be worth it.

The final straw was when we all went on a "road trip" - This is where pretty much everyone in the company packs up and heads to Hicksville, where the people are less sophisticated and more trusting. I've seen these guys lie and connive before, but these road trips were on a whole other level. We stayed in "budget" accomodation and i saw these salespeople for who they really were - backpackers, looking to make a quick buck.

I resolved to work this week as ethically as i could and turned out 24 "sales" - not even 5 per day.

Quitting this job was the best thing i had done in a long time, like a gigantic weight was lifted off of my shoulders. I headed into the office in jeans and a shirt, told them I had had enough, and went out to roam and take photos. I lasted a month in that "job". The world never looked more beautiful.

---

But it wasn't over yet of course. I had to go looking for another job. So i checked out this "recruitment agency" that helped new graduates find jobs. Reading their website profile, it seemed like they were doing God's work - helping impoverished, debt-ridden students get a leg up in the world.

I got a phone call and got invited to their "Orientation Day", where another 30 or so recent grads were attending. Everyone, once again, was smartly dressed and hoping to please. There was an opening lecture about how to clean up your resume and dress to impress. Everyone was nodding their heads in agreement, but looking back i can't help but think that maybe everyone was just doing what i did before - going with the flow so as to not make a bad impression.

We split up into groups and did some exercises that were supposedly testing our teamwork skills. They gave us a list of items and we had to decide which of them would be most useful if stranded in space.

Then came our individual "test" - i found out later that everyone had been asked to prepare a speech on why they would be a good candidate for "B2B sales". Before finding this company, i honestly had no idea was B2B was - i thought it was some telecommunications term, which although wasn't exactly my area of study, it didn't seem too boring either. Later on i found out that it meant "Business-to-Business Sales". So instead of knocking on doors to sell to individual consumers, i would be making calls and selling to companies.

This should've bothered me. But it didn't. I thought this was different, that it was a bigger game with better prospects. Little did I realise that what had in fact happened was I, including the other 30-odd young grads, had been fished, dressed up and offered to this company's "clients" for their commission.

I was no longer the salesman. I was the product.

Another google search led me to the same conclusion - disillusioned young grads never being able to get a job, people who used to work on the inside sharing the dirt, how the entire business model was based on the movie "Boiler Room" by some Brit who never watched it to the end.

They gave me the address of a company they had "organised" an interview with. I made it a point to get the interviewers as uncomfortable as possible, to make them think twice about using this "recruitment agency" in the future. I used aggression, sarcasm, painful handshakes and smirks.

Later on i got a call from the recruiters to ask how it went. I gave a huge smile and told it it went swimmingly, and they congratulated me before saying they would be getting in touch with the interviewer expecting good news.

Needless to say i never got a call from them again.

---

Which brings me to my current job. I'm now a Wine Advisor. Staff pricing on quality wines from around the country and the world. And of course, i'm becoming a wine snob (Wine datasheet in my signature). U jelly?

Thing is, even we have a sales team. They make the calls, pitch the wines and close the deals. The difference is that the people we call ASK to be called. The difference is that we have a product of QUALITY. While the same ABC and other principles apply, i respect that this team is aware of a line that, while sometimes toed, is seldom crossed.

And it's a hard job. There are veterans in the team, but i also see new faces fade in and out all the time. It hard to succeed in sales and be ethical at the same time. I know i couldn't do it.

---

So, what's my point? I guess I feel it related to the whole hustling mentality and vibe i get from these forums. While i can respect the skills and knowledge of the successful salespeople, sales as a job or profession, with intangible products, i just despise.

When i feel i'm on hard times, I don't think of the poor starving children in Africa; I think of the people out there pushing electricity bills and young people's dreams, all for a quick buck.

Post: #2

Yeah there are a few different types of sales jobs. I remember doing a trial with a company who actually sold monthly charity subscriptions door to door. Hearing them talk about hooking them emotionally so you can rake them in and meet your sales targets made me sick. The strategy was to target working poor people as well because they can connect with the suffering alot better than rich people can. It was completely fucked up!

I sell travel now so poeple always come to you instead of having to chase them. No one NEEDS travel, people just love it.

Post: #3

Awesome post, thanks for sharing your experiences.

Post: #4

Great post. I've worked in sales and can totally relate. It's a trip, you get the whole approach anxiety thing when you have to call or show up at business just like you would approaching a girl.

Post: #5

I hated sales too. Pushed JD whiskey and Patron at a fucking Duty-Free for 12/hr. Shit was a fucking drag and I damn near drank myself to death but I pushed on, learned some good skills: reading body lang., interpreting intonation, and persuasion. I don't shy from sales jobs now but I should spend more time selling myself and not someone else's shee-yit

Post: #6

Sales is one of the greasiest professions there is. I have too much of a conscience to try and hock a product/service onto someone that either doesn't want it or can't afford it. I even failed at selling drugs. Do you know how hard it is to fail at selling drugs?

Post: #7

I used to sell framed artwork door to door 100% commission. It was not a job for the weak. We had many people only last a few days.

You pick up valuable skills though. Like pitching anyone anywhere withour fear. I was offered jobs on the spot from guys just from them seeing me approach one person after the next. Business owners desperately need alphas who can close.

Some advice? Only take sales jobs selling big ticket items. You work hard no matter what you sell might as well get paid well to do it.

Post: #8

It's also helpful to have a product people actually want. My retail part-time job is dead in the water now because it's the wrong season for what we sell.
And get the best possible deal when you sign on with the company. Don't be afraid to tell any prospective company who tries to low ball you to go fuck themselves. There are plenty of crappy companies who think all they need to push a product is a body.

Post: #9

i did door-to-door sales. pure rejection. got over that fear quickly. if you really think about it any job in any industry has a sales component. you're selling your self internally or externally consistently. the engineer with the great software idea isn't going to go anywhere if he can't sell it to a VC and then find a sales person to monetize it.

i've worked in fortune 500 - IT as a Product Manager and been around some amazing sales guys. these are the guys with a 5M-10M sales target and pulling in 100K base with an opportunity to make 200-500K annually. once I saw them making all the money I switched my career and got into sales. there's nothing like B2B selling the stakes are high, competition is fierce and the rewards are huge. the guys you work with are competitive, pure alphas, go-getters, cocky, etc. perfect for game.

Post: #10

When i was doing the door-to-door, i experienced a lot of anger and pity.

Anger - "Who does this shit think they are, closing their door on me??"

Pity - "Poor bugger, doesn't know what they've signed up for"

The pity was especially pronounced when we did the road trips to Hicksville. Before i just viewed them as classless, unsophisticated yokels, but when the whole company geared up in military formation to grab their signatures i felt sorry for their simplicity. Despite their lack of complexity, i felt they were good people just trying to make a living.

There are some other crazy stories as well - I remember knocking one door and this hot as fuck chick opens the door. Parents weren't home, so i stuck around and had a chat, but i didn't bring any condoms so couldn't make a move.

Another time i did 4 sales - at the time it was a personal best - and when i met up with my "team leader" - he's a Scot, if that means anything - he had only done 2 sales... but he ended up knocking on the door to some backpackers and laid a dirty Irish chick raw. Fuck!

Post: #11

I can imagine this thread about 200 years ago:

"Slaves from black Africa. 100% Commission. Selling to plantations across the Americas. Not the easiest job ever, but it was rewarding. Now selling coolies, that takes some doing but more fun sampling the wares."

It's been a long time since I watched it, but wasn't Glengarry Glen Ross spot on, "I'll tell you what the hard part is... it's to stop thinking like a goddamn slave"? Try big sales esp outside the USA. The pregame self talk goes from Think light to Think white. You would think being alpha isn't enough to make the sale in IT, but it appears the more technical the subject, the more gullible the mark. There is a sucker born every minute.

Post: #12

PUT THAT COFFEE DOWN!

Post: #13

Moving from selling some bullshit that you have to force down people's throats to selling something truly useful or advantageous does wonders for your psyche. There are still plenty of opportunities for torture, though, such as when you sell a good product, but its customer support sucks and you feel guilty for watching the client struggle with those oafs while you can't do anything.

I should have been born less empathic.

Post: #14

I recommend Glengarry Glen Ross to everybody. It is the best film I have ever seen - and it is about the world of real estate sales.

Post: #15

Try knocking on doors and getting people to sell their house.

It's not that bad. Me and my partner target people who have lived in their homes for at least five years and livein houses that will net us 5k minimum.

We're starting slow, only spent maybe two hours total on this project and we've got a guy whose verbally agreed. At this point it's up to me to follow through and make it happen.

It's also nice that this isn't our sole method to get clients. A lotof what we do is basically the same as approaching girls.

Post: #16

Oh man I can relate to this. I've been to two of those graduate recruitment 'assessment days'. I didn't get selected 1st time round but on the second one I got drafted into the whole "Right, we're going to get you into interviews with great companies' spiel". Three months down the line..nothing. I got a job interdependently anyway, so I'm not bothered, but the falsehoods these recruitment companies profess are astounding. You're better off without them.

Post: #17

Been there, done that. I wrote about it on my blog here: http://the3bromigos.com/2013/04/04/game-is-all-sales/

It sounds very much the same set up as the umbrella company I worked for and it wouldn't surprise me if it is the same one as they've got a global presence, but there's also a fair few companies doing the same thing.

They sell you a dream and show you examples of people who've done it. One of the guys in my office who I became really good friends with made it, he was absolutely brilliant at the job and went from nothing to owning his own office within a year. He now has 5 or 6 other offices under him all earning him money while he doesn't even do anything there, he gets the overheads and maybe does a conference call once a week to the managers of those offices. He's now opened an office in Hungary.

I was really good at sales, but as a natural introvert, I hated doing it. When I understood the whole process, it became so easy for me and the lessons you learn, as you said, are invaluable. The job really opened up my eyes to the world, seeing some people living the way they are, how many people live exactly the same lives, seeing carbon copies of the same example over and over again and ultimately how small the world seems to me now all because of it. It's been great experience, but I wouldn't do it again. I only did the 100% commission thing because I was living at home and wasn't under pressure to pay bills and whatnot.

It's a very snakey business, and when I was younger I was really naive and had people taking advantage of me, and thought people acted honestly like I did. It was stupid but again, a lesson learned. I hate the industry, but I wouldn't knock it because of what it provided me with.

Post: #18

Bump! I just went through the same process.

I just passed the second interview for exactly the same company. I had a phone interview on Friday and I landed an interview with the line "I would rather do this interview face to face."

I show up 10 mins early to the first interview, there is 3 other guys filling in applications with the generic screening process. My interview lasted 15 mins, one on one. The guy was really trying to turn on "interview mode" but I ended up befriending him. At the end he asked me why he should hire me to which I responded "It would be a huge mistake if you don't. My goals are congruent with your company's."

Fast forward until today (Wednesday).
I roll up, they make me sign a form acknowledging that today is 'observational' and I am not employed yet.

I meet the leader and 2 other members and we jump into a car, off to a Sainsbury's for a meal deal. There I am handed a booklet on the steps and tips on how to do this. A manual. The goal was 4 sales in 120 approaches (door-knocking) over the course of 6 hours spread over a neighbourhood. We did 4 rounds, passing by the same houses and people until every house was tried within the time limit and everyone answered (empty houses had 4 visits to make sure). I then had to learn some of the booklet in which I had a test when I went back to the offices. Upon return to the office, conveniently located above Nando's, I had a quasi-interview debrief with the boss and got to ask questions and whatnot.

Now, the process I went through reed.co.uk in which I found a headhunter who emailed my CV to a subsidiary company of Appco. The job description changed around 3 times.

I was offered the job and I took it. This is either gonna turn out really badly or super brilliantly. I'll keep you guys posted.

Post: #19

The problem isn't so much sales but the fact that most pure commission sales jobs are scams. Even if the product or service is legit, the company makes money by "pump and dumping" sales reps. Massive turnover is built into the business plan.

Credit card processing for example. They know that they're service has a market value to maybe 1 or 2 percent of existing customers nation wide. That's nowhere near enough critical mass for a sales rep to make a living, but plenty enough for the company to make a profit. So you come on thinking you're going to go out and kill it, burn up more gas than you make in commissions then quit in disgust. But the company now gets to reap the residual fees from all your sales (all six of them). Then they hire another desperate mope and do the same thing again.

Post: #20

Summer's been hell. Unemployed and such, but throughout the summer I had some experience in dealing with these sales jobs. Both were selling energy and both were bullshit.

Here's a story about my last one.

There was another sales job around my area. After not being contacted from the last one, I was apprehensive about working with these people. But like my homie Tengen here, shit that says "850 a week! Good pay!" is hard to deny at first.

Passed the interview no problem and then like they have me and a group of people just do some team activities. Our boss was pretty much telling us that he's not paying us an hourly rate. When I should have dipped out right there, I just stayed there thinking I'd wing it out.

So I'mma fast forward to my last day there.

At the end of the day, I had gotten back in the team's van with my co-workers. I had began to read the worker's book and looked at how we were getting compensated. But right when I'm reading, I'm noticing that we only get fucking 5 dollars for a sale. To make matters even worse, we all were loosing 8 dollars a day so we could ride the team vehicles!

So while we're riding back, this song comes on at the right time. Rocko - You Don't Even Know it came right the fuck on while I was thinking about all this bullshit.




I smile for a minute and then say
Rosca "These muthafuckas jipping us and we'll on't even know it"
Coworker "They took 16 dollars from you and you on't even know it"

Everyone starts laughing, even I laughed at this shit. These guys were fucking us full speed!

But after realizing that I was pretty much getting shit for all that work, I never came back to that office. Fuck saying "I quit". I just dipped out.

Through my brief experience, I was able to improve my body language a bit. But other then that, commission sales can suck my dick.

Post: #21

Interesting story.

To hustle is to hustle.

Post: #22

I LOVE selling, for me its a drug, once i have hooked somebody, and they have fallen in love with my widgets, its game on, let the blood spill!

I have turned a bit like the late great A.Senna, it was not enough for him to get pole-position, same same of sorts, i want to go even faster and push my self more and more, its me against the world, nobody will ever touch me.

These days closing a sale is NOT enough, i need to get the highest price possible, i want the gold medal, even more than the full retail price, well over the odds, i need to spank every other salesperson otherwise i am not happy, i have been caught out a few times, manufacturers have phoned me and complained "its not ethical", fuck'em i didnt hold a gun to the buyers head did i? THEY PAID FOR MY TIME, the widget they got in the end was a bonus!

Like Kosmo said "retail is for sucker"

Its just practice, skill, confidence and self belief, bit like hunting females!

"Lifes about, shooting your load"

Post: #23

Almost all human being don't like Sales. it's like doing a public speech. they would rather die than getting humiliated in front of big crowds.

If you do not like sales, just get a regular job.

It's like meeting girls through social circle, blind dates, family rather than cold approaching because the risk is very low.

Post: #24

I've seen those ads, and boy...do they spam the fuck out of CareerBuilder and other job sites. Luckily Indeed is doing a good job keeping them out.

If they use "our top earners earn up to $XXX,XXX", it's too good to be true. You want to know how much you will earn, not what the top earners earn because not everyone is a top earner.

If the ad has many postings, it's too good to be true. Some groups like Vector Marketing post the same job 10 times.

If they use a group of keywords "bmw, honda, graduate, sales, entry level, marketing, advertising", it's most likely a scammy sales job.

Finally, why the F do they call it Marketing? I remember when marketing was product development, and sales was sales. Now sales is called marketing. The term "marketing" got bastardized by those guys.

Luckily, I distrust everyone and it's hard for me to do so....so I always keep an eye out for any inconsistencies and can spot BS from a mile away.

Post: #25

go sell you, why do you need someones shitty product?