Post: #1

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/samantha-p...70101.html
Over the past few years, I've witnessed a growing number of married couples in my fortysomething peer group calling it quits. Not surprisingly, infidelity is a factor in many of these breakups. What is surprising is that it's the women -- not the men-- who are cheating.

Although recent high-profile scandals have involved cheating men (think John Edwards, Anthony Weiner, Arnold Schwarzenegger), a study out of Indiana University finds that women today cheat at about the same rate as men, and that the number of unfaithful women is growing. The study showed that 19 percent of married women and 23 percent of married men reported cheating, statistics that reflect a closing of the cheating gender gap. (Note: These numbers are probably on the conservative side because they reflect the percentage of people who admitted to cheating. Presumably, the numbers of unfaithful partners is higher.) Research from the 1990s found that only 10 percent of married women reported being unfaithful. According to these numbers, female infidelity may one day rival or even surpass male cheating.

Another interesting fact? According to the study, the most common age for women to have an affair is 45. For men, it's 55.

The reasons for cheating are many. Take Diane, a 46-year-old mother of two who has worked full time while raising kids:

"My husband and I were so busy with work and the kids that our life together had slid into the background. It became all about 'who's doing the laundry' and 'who's picking the kids up from daycare.' I needed confirmation that I was still sexy and that other men found me attractive."

This rise in female infidelity is a change from what I saw growing up in the '80s. In those days, it was the man who cheated. In many cases, this pattern held true: Husband cheats on wife with secretary; husband leaves wife and kids near-broke; husband starts new family with younger wife.

My girlfriends and I observed the devastating effects of divorce -- which left families in financial and emotional ruin -- and vowed that we would never let it happen to us. We worked hard in school, went to college and grad school, and pursued careers so that we would never have to be financially dependent on a man.

So why do I look around me and see so many women repeating the mistakes of their fathers? Why are they willing to risk everything -- their marriages, homes, even their children -- for a romp (or two) in the sack with another man?

Is it a midlife crisis? A feminist assertion of independence and power? Or perhaps a "Fifty Shades of Grey" phenomenon where women are craving steamy "chocolate hot-fudge brownie" sex over the "vanilla" flavor they've had for years with their husbands?

According to Carolyn*, a 44-year-old mother of three, "Sleeping with another man awakened things in me that I hadn't felt in years. When I was with him, I felt like I was doing something just for me. I was sick of living for others. It wasn't hard to keep the affair secret from my husband because I travel a lot for work."

While there are several factors that contribute to marital infidelity, there are a few unique reasons women in their 40s cheat. Here are the top 10:
Greater confidence. Women in their 40s have fewer insecurities and are more confident about their bodies, their careers and themselves. They know who they are and feel comfortable in their skin. Many have jobs outside the house and an identity apart from that of mother/wife. Working outside the house also provides women more opportunities to meet men -- and to pursue affairs -- than their stay-at-home counterparts.

"Mommy" stage is over. By their 40s, women no longer have leaky, milk-filled breasts for feeding babies. Hey, maybe they've even gotten their pre-baby figure back! They are feeling sexy for the first time in a while. Having brought up toddlers, they have more freedom to go out again and relax -- with their husbands, partners or someone else entirely.


Shifting hormones. In their 40s, women's testosterone levels are on the rise, which increases their libido, or sex drive. The so-called "nurturing" hormones -- estrogen and oxytocin -- are on the wane, making them less physically wired to attend to the needs of others and more likely to put themselves and their own needs first.


Bedroom boredom. Let's face it, after 20 years with the same partner, sex can become "plain vanilla." And as Christian Grey has taught us, nobody likes "plain vanilla." Sex with someone new is exciting and forbidden and provides a dopamine rush similar to a drug-induced high.


Feeling neglected/unappreciated. Women wear many hats in a marriage -- housekeeper, errand-runner, grocery shopper, babysitter, cook, doctor, lover, etc. Is it any wonder that a woman is tuckered out by her 40s? If she feels more like a housekeeper or maid than a beloved and cherished wife, that's when she may stray. The fact that a husband may be spending inordinate amounts of time at work, traveling or on the golf course gives her more reason to seek attention elsewhere.


Self-esteem booster. Sex can be an instant pick-me-up, a self-esteem booster that makes women feel sexier, more beautiful and more loved. If a woman feels unappreciated or neglected by her husband, a sexual affair could be just the medicine that she needs.


Revenge/payback for past wrongs. Whether her husband cheated, lost a job, made a bad investment or got caught in a lie, a woman feels hurt and betrayed when trust has been broken. She may want to do the same to get even.


Financial woes. Many families today are experiencing financial troubles, which puts a huge strain on a marriage. Women in their 40s feel that they have put in many years of hard labor -- giving birth, raising kids and often working outside the house at the same time. When their husbands are without jobs or decent paychecks, women feel that their husbands are not fulfilling their end of the bargain and become angry and resentful.


Letting the bad girl out. Have you noticed how many women get a breast augmentation, liposuction or other plastic surgery after their childbearing years to enhance their looks and sexuality? If not, take another look. Just as men feel the need to sow their wild oats, some women have an inner sex kitten that -- especially with rising testosterone levels -- is just waiting to come out!


Exit strategy. Instead of breaking up, it's easier to cheat. An affair is an easy way out, or at least that's how some women see it.


Bottom line? Female infidelity is on the rise. When you add up all the reasons that women cheat, it's usually her heart -- or ego -- that needs healing. Not her libido. A few tips? Keep the lines of communication open with your spouse. Look for the warning signs. And get help from a good marriage therapist before it's too late.

theres 2,644 comments on the article so should be an interesting read..

Post: #2

(07-22-2012 12:08 AM)RedBull Wrote:  The study showed that 19 percent of married women and 23 percent of married men reported cheating, statistics that reflect a closing of the cheating gender gap. (Note: These numbers are probably on the conservative side because they reflect the percentage of people who admitted to cheating. Presumably, the numbers of unfaithful partners is higher.) Research from the 1990s found that only 10 percent of married women reported being unfaithful. According to these numbers, female infidelity may one day rival or even surpass male cheating.

I'm willing to bet anything that the women lied a lot more than the men did, if the men did at all. Eg this.

Quote: Keep the lines of communication open with your spouse. Look for the warning signs. And get help from a good marriage therapist before it's too late.

This is a disgusting, evil article. When it mentions men cheating, they're fingered as home-wreckers, and probably rightly so. But when it's women cheating, it's spoken of as if someone caught a common cold. "Here's 10 things you can do to prevent yourself from getting sick your wife from fucking some dude."

Good to see the most highly rated comments are critical of the article.

Most Western, 'empowered' women just don't understand the difference between culpability and prevention. Culpability is being morally responsible for an action, and prevention means taking precautionary measures to ensure something doesn't happen. When a girl gets raped after walking around in a dangerous area late at night she is not culpable - but she could have taken steps to make it less likely she'd get raped. Same with adultery - there are steps you can take to make it less likely, but the man is not culpable in any sense. Fundamentally, these women don't want to take responsibility for anything.

Post: #3

America is some kind of weird Orwellian nightmare where the women justify why they don't need to love anyone. Seriously, I cannot imagine being married to the kind of woman that wrote the above article.

She sounds like a cyborg telling us a math equation why women should dump their families in the name of sexual satisfaction. Next thing you know she'll be telling women how to grow dicks

Post: #4

Lotsa hamster in this one.

The reasons for cheating are many. Take Diane, a 46-year-old mother of two who has worked full time while raising kids:

"I needed confirmation that I was still sexy and that other men found me attractive."

Bullshit. You're a whore. End of story.

Husband cheats on wife with secretary; husband leaves wife and kids near-broke; husband starts new family with younger wife.

Maybe in the 50's. Unless they are a CEO men are raped in divorce proceedings.

Or perhaps a "Fifty Shades of Grey" phenomenon where women are craving steamy "chocolate hot-fudge brownie" sex over the "vanilla" flavor they've had for years with their husbands?

What is it with bitches and this silly ass book.

According to Carolyn*, a 44-year-old mother of three, "Sleeping with another man awakened things in me that I hadn't felt in years. When I was with him, I felt like I was doing something just for me. I was sick of living for others.

yeah, it must suck to do what men have done forever. And again, bullshit. You're a whore.


Feeling neglected/unappreciated. Women wear many hats in a marriage -- housekeeper, errand-runner, grocery shopper, babysitter, cook, doctor, lover, etc. Is it any wonder that a woman is tuckered out by her 40s? If she feels more like a housekeeper or maid than a beloved and cherished wife, that's when she may stray. The fact that a husband may be spending inordinate amounts of time at work, traveling or on the golf course gives her more reason to seek attention elsewhere.

This is too stupid to even comment on.

Revenge/payback for past wrongs. Whether her husband cheated, lost a job, made a bad investment or got caught in a lie, a woman feels hurt and betrayed when trust has been broken. She may want to do the same to get even.

Damn, bitches are delusional. If he cheated, leave him. He lost a job? Made a bad investment? Yeah, because everyone has complete control if they get laid off or not. Or wait, weren't you sick of the overtime and long hours he put in? And every investment pays off. Don't men know that?[b]

Have you noticed how many women get a breast augmentation, liposuction or other plastic surgery after their childbearing years to enhance their looks and sexuality?

Not really, but I don't check out old bitches and that shit doesn't work for them anyway.[b]

Nice find RedBull. Good stuff.

Post: #5

It is strong in this one.

Post: #6

(07-22-2012 12:08 AM)RedBull Wrote:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/samantha-p...70101.html
Over the past few years, I've witnessed a growing number of married couples in my fortysomething peer group calling it quits. Not surprisingly, infidelity is a factor in many of these breakups. What is surprising is that it's the women -- not the men-- who are cheating.

Although recent high-profile scandals have involved cheating men (think John Edwards, Anthony Weiner, Arnold Schwarzenegger), a study out of Indiana University finds that women today cheat at about the same rate as men, and that the number of unfaithful women is growing. The study showed that 19 percent of married women and 23 percent of married men reported cheating, statistics that reflect a closing of the cheating gender gap. (Note: These numbers are probably on the conservative side because they reflect the percentage of people who admitted to cheating. Presumably, the numbers of unfaithful partners is higher.) Research from the 1990s found that only 10 percent of married women reported being unfaithful. According to these numbers, female infidelity may one day rival or even surpass male cheating.

Another interesting fact? According to the study, the most common age for women to have an affair is 45. For men, it's 55.

The reasons for cheating are many. Take Diane, a 46-year-old mother of two who has worked full time while raising kids:

"My husband and I were so busy with work and the kids that our life together had slid into the background. It became all about 'who's doing the laundry' and 'who's picking the kids up from daycare.' I needed confirmation that I was still sexy and that other men found me attractive."

This rise in female infidelity is a change from what I saw growing up in the '80s. In those days, it was the man who cheated. In many cases, this pattern held true: Husband cheats on wife with secretary; husband leaves wife and kids near-broke; husband starts new family with younger wife.

My girlfriends and I observed the devastating effects of divorce -- which left families in financial and emotional ruin -- and vowed that we would never let it happen to us. We worked hard in school, went to college and grad school, and pursued careers so that we would never have to be financially dependent on a man.

So why do I look around me and see so many women repeating the mistakes of their fathers? Why are they willing to risk everything -- their marriages, homes, even their children -- for a romp (or two) in the sack with another man?

Is it a midlife crisis? A feminist assertion of independence and power? Or perhaps a "Fifty Shades of Grey" phenomenon where women are craving steamy "chocolate hot-fudge brownie" sex over the "vanilla" flavor they've had for years with their husbands?

According to Carolyn*, a 44-year-old mother of three, "Sleeping with another man awakened things in me that I hadn't felt in years. When I was with him, I felt like I was doing something just for me. I was sick of living for others. It wasn't hard to keep the affair secret from my husband because I travel a lot for work."

While there are several factors that contribute to marital infidelity, there are a few unique reasons women in their 40s cheat. Here are the top 10:
Greater confidence. Women in their 40s have fewer insecurities and are more confident about their bodies, their careers and themselves. They know who they are and feel comfortable in their skin. Many have jobs outside the house and an identity apart from that of mother/wife. Working outside the house also provides women more opportunities to meet men -- and to pursue affairs -- than their stay-at-home counterparts.

"Mommy" stage is over. By their 40s, women no longer have leaky, milk-filled breasts for feeding babies. Hey, maybe they've even gotten their pre-baby figure back! They are feeling sexy for the first time in a while. Having brought up toddlers, they have more freedom to go out again and relax -- with their husbands, partners or someone else entirely.


Shifting hormones. In their 40s, women's testosterone levels are on the rise, which increases their libido, or sex drive. The so-called "nurturing" hormones -- estrogen and oxytocin -- are on the wane, making them less physically wired to attend to the needs of others and more likely to put themselves and their own needs first.


Bedroom boredom. Let's face it, after 20 years with the same partner, sex can become "plain vanilla." And as Christian Grey has taught us, nobody likes "plain vanilla." Sex with someone new is exciting and forbidden and provides a dopamine rush similar to a drug-induced high.


Feeling neglected/unappreciated. Women wear many hats in a marriage -- housekeeper, errand-runner, grocery shopper, babysitter, cook, doctor, lover, etc. Is it any wonder that a woman is tuckered out by her 40s? If she feels more like a housekeeper or maid than a beloved and cherished wife, that's when she may stray. The fact that a husband may be spending inordinate amounts of time at work, traveling or on the golf course gives her more reason to seek attention elsewhere.


Self-esteem booster. Sex can be an instant pick-me-up, a self-esteem booster that makes women feel sexier, more beautiful and more loved. If a woman feels unappreciated or neglected by her husband, a sexual affair could be just the medicine that she needs.


Revenge/payback for past wrongs. Whether her husband cheated, lost a job, made a bad investment or got caught in a lie, a woman feels hurt and betrayed when trust has been broken. She may want to do the same to get even.


Financial woes. Many families today are experiencing financial troubles, which puts a huge strain on a marriage. Women in their 40s feel that they have put in many years of hard labor -- giving birth, raising kids and often working outside the house at the same time. When their husbands are without jobs or decent paychecks, women feel that their husbands are not fulfilling their end of the bargain and become angry and resentful.


Letting the bad girl out. Have you noticed how many women get a breast augmentation, liposuction or other plastic surgery after their childbearing years to enhance their looks and sexuality? If not, take another look. Just as men feel the need to sow their wild oats, some women have an inner sex kitten that -- especially with rising testosterone levels -- is just waiting to come out!


Exit strategy. Instead of breaking up, it's easier to cheat. An affair is an easy way out, or at least that's how some women see it.


Bottom line? Female infidelity is on the rise. When you add up all the reasons that women cheat, it's usually her heart -- or ego -- that needs healing. Not her libido. A few tips? Keep the lines of communication open with your spouse. Look for the warning signs. And get help from a good marriage therapist before it's too late.

theres 2,644 comments on the article so should be an interesting read..

I heard other studies actually shows that 50% of married men cheat and 50-60% women cheat(a little high but this includes emotional affair, the 60%), that figure is way too low. Married women are usually sluttier than that.

Post: #7

(07-22-2012 12:31 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Next thing you know she'll be telling women how to grow dicks

Feminists have been saying that, in one way or another, for at least the past 100 years.

(07-22-2012 12:31 AM)Samseau Wrote:  America is some kind of weird Orwellian nightmare where the women justify why they don't need to love anyone. Seriously, I cannot imagine being married to the kind of woman that wrote the above article.

And when it comes to men, they will castigate them for making any effort to meet women. I was thinking about this today, walking along my street, something Roosh has alluded to - "why the FUCK are our women attacking us and shaming us for wanting to meet women? Tell a girl you did *anything* explicitly to meet women, and you'd be the target of endless derision. Yoga, recreational classes, learning a new language, going to the gym...

(07-22-2012 12:44 AM)HeyPete Wrote:  Lotsa hamster in this one.

The reasons for cheating are many. Take Diane, a 46-year-old mother of two who has worked full time while raising kids:

"I needed confirmation that I was still sexy and that other men found me attractive."

Bullshit. You're a whore. End of story.

That response of yours in bold pretty much suffices for every line in that article.

Post: #8

I thought this would be a story about increasing numbers of women becoming career prostitutes.

What a disappointment.

Post: #9

(07-22-2012 12:08 AM)RedBull Wrote:  While there are several factors that contribute to marital infidelity, there are a few unique reasons women in their 40s cheat. Here are the top 10:

Feeling neglected/unappreciated. Women wear many hats in a marriage -- housekeeper, errand-runner, grocery shopper, babysitter, cook, doctor, lover, etc. Is it any wonder that a woman is tuckered out by her 40s? If she feels more like a housekeeper or maid than a beloved and cherished wife, that's when she may stray. The fact that a husband may be spending inordinate amounts of time at work, traveling or on the golf course gives her more reason to seek attention elsewhere.

...Revenge/payback for past wrongs. Whether her husband cheated, lost a job, made a bad investment or got caught in a lie, a woman feels hurt and betrayed when trust has been broken. She may want to do the same to get even.

Financial woes. Many families today are experiencing financial troubles, which puts a huge strain on a marriage. Women in their 40s feel that they have put in many years of hard labor -- giving birth, raising kids and often working outside the house at the same time. When their husbands are without jobs or decent paychecks, women feel that their husbands are not fulfilling their end of the bargain and become angry and resentful.

Bottom line? Female infidelity is on the rise. When you add up all the reasons that women cheat, it's usually her heart -- or ego -- that needs healing. Not her libido. A few tips? Keep the lines of communication open with your spouse. Look for the warning signs. And get help from a good marriage therapist before it's too late.

Hold on a minute. In this article, this woman has:

-Claimed that men working too much is a problem.
-Claimed that a man losing his job counts as a "wrong" against her and that this justifies her cheating (apparently, he MUST work to stave off ALL potential financial woes, but not too much).
-Pretended as though she is doing men a favor by listing this out, as though it were friendly advice and not merely a list of maniacally selfish delusion?



Women like this are good for sex, and sex only. I'll echo what a commenter on the article said quite wisely:

Quote:So she complains that some men lose their jobs, and yet others work TOO much! By the way, both justify unfaithfulness.

I wish every young man to read this before they get married. Thanks, ladies, keep the articles coming. You are doing a great service to our nation, finally letting out what many women are really like after marriage.

Please listen to me, men. DO NOT GET MARRIED. Do not tie yourself down to 1 partner. Never move in with a woman or give away the keys to your own castle. EVER!

You can't outplay the kinds of hamsters that have become common place in the western world. The only way to win the game is not to play it.

Post: #10

The ability of these sluts to do damage is beyond measure. I have worked for two companies which were destroyed by inside whores.

Post: #11

BasilRansom Wrote:And when it comes to men, they will castigate them for making any effort to meet women. I was thinking about this today, walking along my street, something Roosh has alluded to - "why the FUCK are our women attacking us and shaming us for wanting to meet women? Tell a girl you did *anything* explicitly to meet women, and you'd be the target of endless derision. Yoga, recreational classes, learning a new language, going to the gym...

Yeah, this always gets me. One time an older woman asked me,

"Why did you learn how to swing dance?"
I told her, "In order to meet women."
Her face formed a scowl. "Well, that's boring."


I thought to myself... "What the fuck?"


It's pretty funny/sad that women are incapable of realizing humanity would face extinction without the male sex drive. They cannot appreciate the mating game for what it is, and need to dress up the process as something "interesting" in order to accept it.

Post: #12

I'm well aware of the 40-something whore wives. At my old place of employment a very large number of them would gossip about how good I probably was in the sack. Roughly 4-10 'regulars' depending on the shift.
You can't really nail them with sexual harassment either, because the supervisors were women, HR were all women, etc, and none of them have a moral code that holds them culpable for each other's bullshit. Put pressure on them and instantly they were just cracking dirty jokes, because they "do that at work".

Post: #13

Read this article yesterday afternoon. I was going to post it here, but by the time I finished reading I was so pissed off I went to smoke a cigarette, then didn't feel like ripping the article to pieces.

Further validation of my view-point that American women are whores and worthless as lovers or wives.

Post: #14

I'll take my kid to the park today. Who's going to be with most the other kids? The grandparents. Like I said before, everyone is single. They talk to me and it's just a matter of minutes before they start telling me the fucked up shit the mom is doing and why they have the kid.

I live this shit. The last two girls that have been here for sex have been fired from their jobs in the last 7 days. Why? Because they're obsessed with their personal/lovelife. One of them was taking the nights off that she knew I didn't have my kid because she wanted to be available the other one was fucking with her phone all day and not getting anything done. The first one has a kid about 7 or so and I asked her how she has the time to hang out and she said that he's at a sleepover. Really? Everynight? I told her to take care of her kid and forget about me. She drunk texted me all night telling me what a good parent she is etc.

Post: #15

(07-22-2012 08:25 AM)Samseau Wrote:  One time an older woman asked me,

"Why did you learn how to swing dance?"
I told her, "In order to meet women."
Her face formed a scowl. "Well, that's boring."


I thought to myself... "What the fuck?"

Dude. DUUUDE. A modicum of social nous keeps the wheels of society moving.

Post: #16

(07-22-2012 08:25 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Yeah, this always gets me. One time an older woman asked me,

"Why did you learn how to swing dance?"
I told her, "In order to meet women."
Her face formed a scowl. "Well, that's boring."


I thought to myself... "What the fuck?"

Not defending it, but this dynamic has an easy explanation and is essentially just another manifestation of female hypergamy turned fantasy.
I touched on this dynamic in this older post. Basically, women love very attractive men who are, for whatever reason, very understated in their expression of this attractiveness. They do not try to show or do-they just are.

A man who can display very attractive traits while also conveying the notion of effortlessness and aloofness towards them (read: he's just being him, no concern for the women he may or may not attract, doesn't seem to exert any effort to show the traits to girls, etc) is the man women respond best to. He who seems to try the least, wins. This is why pre-selection is such a powerful weapon for guys.

The man who displays these attractive traits and makes it clear that he worked at it just to get to women (read: not effortless, prioritizes attainment of female attention, not just being him, etc) has the opposite effect on girls, and this is predictable given their nature.

When you let her know that you learned swing dancing primarily for the purpose of getting women, you set her warning alarms off. The Alpha Male/Dream Guy she is hypergamously designed to get wet for (the one she cannot always consciously describe, but who she is wired to hunt for and knows how to recognize subconsciously) lives his life for him and is cool on his own. He's attractive to women, but he doesn't try to be-this aloofness, in turn, makes him more attractive. This guy wouldn't go out of his way just for the chance of meeting an individual girl-why would he try so hard? He's "Mr. Right".

This concept is highly irrational, given the fact that nearly all men are incapable of meeting this high standard. We're all aware most guys (even seasoned players and naturals) must, at some point, put some effort in if they want to get better with women. After all, we don't just sprout tits and ass and immediately appeal to the opposite sex-more effort is required over a longer term for us to get somewhere romantically. Basic biology ensures this discrepancy.

Thus, this dream guy she wants (very attractive with no effort, pre-meditated strategy, etc) more often than not inhabits romance novels and TV shows exclusively.

Girls, however, do not care about the plight of normal guys and are quite good at ignoring the existence of said men altogether in many cases-they want the best. Their hypergamy governs this, and the hamster will rationalize any reasonable questioning away. She wants that dream, and will gravitate to whichever male in her life comes closest to it.

The fact that this dream is unrealistic is not something she can process, nor does she want to. That the men she chooses who she believes approximate this dream well more than likely didn't do so effortlessly (their success/confidence/attractiveness instead the product of years of practice/experience, advice from relatives/male peers, "game", hard work, etc, etc) is not relevant.

This is about how she feels-she needs it to feel special and organic, and will do whatever it takes to shut out notions to the contrary.

Therefore, we really shouldn't expect women to accept our efforts to strategize our courting of them. Granted, they could be a little more realistic about it (there is no need to get quite that indignant, some women are better at processing these realities about men than others), but it is logical that even those who do not react to learning of game with red-alerts and the like would be turned off at least to some extent if they discovered early in the courting process that a man's actions were "designed" in some way just for her. She's wired to thrive on at least the illusion of organic relationship chemistry.

These best thing for any man to do is to hide that all that experience/intent, and play the role of the attractive, natural, aloof and entirely natural/effortless Mr. Right that they all dream about. For all she knows, you've been swing-dancing for a while and you got into it years ago to stay in shape and broaden your horizons a bit. It had nothing to do with girls at all, just you taking an interest in becoming a more well-rounded person for the hell of it. Girls just happened to be around.

No need to let her know the reality-the hamster is not designed to process it, much less accept it.

Post: #17

(07-22-2012 09:40 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  The man who displays these attractive traits and makes it clear that he worked at it just to get to women (read: not effortless, prioritizes attainment of female attention, not just being him, etc) has the opposite effect on girls, and this is predictable given their nature.

These best thing for any man to do is to hide that all that experience/intent, and play the role of the attractive, natural, aloof and entirely natural/effortless Mr. Right that they all dream about. For all she knows, you've been swing-dancing for a while and you got into it years ago to stay in shape and broaden your horizons a bit. It had nothing to do with girls at all, just you taking an interest in becoming a more well-rounded person for the hell of it. Girls just happened to be around.

No need to let her know the reality-the hamster is not designed to process it, much less accept it.

Athlone's assessment is spot on. I learned very early that women simply do not care how much effort you are putting in. They have a fantasy of the guy who can attract them with no effort, and you have to sell them that dream. I never bring up how much effort I put in trying to improve myself over the years. It's downright hilarious when girls tell me that I'm an awesome guy, handsome, and have a great personality.

Little do they know that I spend years struggling(and at times continue to do so) and tons of effort to improve my lot.

It's human nature to admire others for the accomplishments and success that they possess. It's easier to say that a certain person is just naturally better, to think that a guy just woke up one morning and he was attracting women with no effort. For the majority of guys it's simply not the case.

When you see someone excel you're seeing the finished product. You have no idea how much work it took, or what their history was. With women it's best to keep this history a secret, and have them believe that you've always been 'a natural.'

Post: #18

(07-22-2012 09:40 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(07-22-2012 08:25 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Yeah, this always gets me. One time an older woman asked me,

"Why did you learn how to swing dance?"
I told her, "In order to meet women."
Her face formed a scowl. "Well, that's boring."


I thought to myself... "What the fuck?"

Not defending it, but this dynamic has an easy explanation and is essentially just another manifestation of female hypergamy turned fantasy.
I touched on this dynamic in this older post. Basically, women love very attractive men who are, for whatever reason, very understated in their expression of this attractiveness. They do not try to show or do-they just are.

A man who can display very attractive traits while also conveying the notion of effortlessness and aloofness towards them (read: he's just being him, no concern for the women he may or may not attract, doesn't seem to exert any effort to show the traits to girls, etc) is the man women respond best to. He who seems to try the least, wins. This is why pre-selection is such a powerful weapon for guys.

You're looking at modern Western sluts women, and taking their behavior as the embodiment of the female sex. Probably, sprezzatura is always desirable. But maybe this temperament of contempt discussed comes about when the mating market shifts from a dating and marriage market to a hookup market. In a hookup market, girls have strange men propositioning them constantly - the average girl could walk into most any bar and go home with 80%+ of the men there. She's competing with whatever else he can get that night. When it's a marriage market, eg girls won't put out until a serious relationship or marriage is formed, she's no longer just competing with his options for that night, but for his options for the rest of his life, more or less. Under those conditions, men are more selective.

So modern women are very glib about the challenge that most normal men face of meeting women. They can't relate at all, because they have no problem meeting men. If they were looking for attractive husbands, they might relate, because that's harder than finding a flavor of the night.

For instance, people 50 years ago would have neighborhood dances, explicitly for the purpose of meeting members of the opposite sex to date. We are pruder than the men and women of the 1950's in that respect - no one but players and social outcasts say to themselves, "yeah, I'm doing this to meet girls." Even when going out to bars and clubs. You're going because 'you like the music,' 'you like to dance,' 'you like clubbing.'

This wouldn't be such an issue, if modern women were not solipsistic - fundamentally, they don't believe in any reality outside their own. That's why they always think they have it hardest - no one else really exists. Solipsism probably has always existed as a tendency in the female psyche, but women in past eras had a lot of mundane obligations that humbled them and kept them 'down to earth.' Now, they can't even be bothered to cook for themselves, yet are constantly lionized by the media for doing nothing more than being a girl, while men are derided. Thus the off the charts solipsism of modern Western women.

Post: #19

(07-22-2012 11:09 AM)basilransom Wrote:  You're looking at modern Western sluts women, and taking their behavior as the embodiment of the female sex. The temperament you describe comes about when the mating market shifts from a dating and marriage market to a hookup market. In a hookup market, girls have strangely men propositioning them constantly - the average girl could walk into most any bar and go home with 80%+ of the men there.

So modern women are very glib about the challenge that most normal men face of meeting women. They can't relate at all, because they have no problem meeting men. If they were looking for attractive husbands, they might relate, because that's harder than finding a flavor of the night.

The theory I illustrated above is most accurately applied to western women. That's fair enough, I'll agree with you there.

I still maintain that what we're seeing is linked to innate female hypergamy. That hypergamy has, for a number of reasons (including the cultural issues and solipsism you mentioned) run amuck, mutating into a more absurd beast than we have ever known and thus creating some of the issues we're talking about now with regards to the temperament of the western female.

Post: #20

Athlone, I think your explanation is as good as we'll ever have in this lifetime.


What caught me off guard, however, was that I was talking to a woman who appeared to be at least 37 years old - I wasn't even thinking about gaming her - so I assumed having a normal conversation where I tell the truth would be appropriate.

Of course, the only reason a woman will talk to a man is if she is attracted to him, so it was silly of me to treat her otherwise. It turned out she was married, and was looking to cheat, but that is another story for another time. It does fit in with the article of married women cheating on their husbands, though.

Post: #21

(07-22-2012 11:09 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

(07-22-2012 09:40 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(07-22-2012 08:25 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Yeah, this always gets me. One time an older woman asked me,

"Why did you learn how to swing dance?"
I told her, "In order to meet women."
Her face formed a scowl. "Well, that's boring."


I thought to myself... "What the fuck?"

Not defending it, but this dynamic has an easy explanation and is essentially just another manifestation of female hypergamy turned fantasy.
I touched on this dynamic in this older post. Basically, women love very attractive men who are, for whatever reason, very understated in their expression of this attractiveness. They do not try to show or do-they just are.

A man who can display very attractive traits while also conveying the notion of effortlessness and aloofness towards them (read: he's just being him, no concern for the women he may or may not attract, doesn't seem to exert any effort to show the traits to girls, etc) is the man women respond best to. He who seems to try the least, wins. This is why pre-selection is such a powerful weapon for guys.

You're looking at modern Western sluts women, and taking their behavior as the embodiment of the female sex. Probably, sprezzatura is always desirable. But maybe this temperament of contempt discussed comes about when the mating market shifts from a dating and marriage market to a hookup market. In a hookup market, girls have strange men propositioning them constantly - the average girl could walk into most any bar and go home with 80%+ of the men there. She's competing with whatever else he can get that night. When it's a marriage market, eg girls won't put out until a serious relationship or marriage is formed, she's no longer just competing with his options for that night, but for his options for the rest of his life, more or less. Under those conditions, men are more selective.

I've banged some foreign women, and while they have their cultural nuances, fundamentally all women are the same.

Telling any girl you're doing something just to meet women will always come across as beta for the reasons Athlone mentioned.


If you can learn how to reliably bang American women, you will be more than ready for virtually any kind of woman in the world. American women make their men jump through more hoops and bullshit than any other kind of woman in the world.

American men have the tightest game in the world, because American women require it. They aren't looking for a cock, they're looking for the cock with magical properties that make them wet.


One of the most popular stereotypes with foreign women, all over the world, from Bangladesh to Columbia, is that Western men make great, if not the best, husbands.

I've seen this stereotype mentioned in foreign blogs (of which URL's I no longer have), and both from foreign women themselves. The greek girl I was dating a few months ago told me about a conversation she had with her mother.

Greek girl was leaving the USA after three short months, and was sad. She didn't want to leave me. She was on the phone with her mother, and the mother asked her,

"Daughter, what is wrong? Why do you sound so sad?"
"I just don't want to leave America yet. I love it here."
"Did you find a better job?"
"No."
"Do you like (the city she was in) so much more than Athens?"
"No."
"Did you fall in love with an American man?"
"No." (She was lying... I guess Greek women lie a shitload)

Greek girl mentioned this conversation to me before she left, and I thought to myself, "Why do foreign women idolize American men while American women shit all over them?"

I sometimes wonder if American men are groomed to be the perfect foreign husband, since American women are such insufferable cunts that the men must learn to be perfect alphas as recompense.

Perhaps it is Nature's Way; the best families of the 21st century will almost all be inter-cultural, whereby certain cultures breed the best men and other cultures breed the best women - all at the expense of said culture's opposite gender.


So, Basil, to answer your original assertion, do the same things you've learned to do with American women. Never let on to women how much you've worked to earn their affection, because it will only lower your value.

Post: #22

I see what you're saying and agree. But looking back, it's clear that American women are on a whole 'nother level - to them, any expression of desire for women is disgusting. My favorite example of this is one I love to tell - I was in a bus full of Americans in a foreign country, on an academic program. The guys were raving about how cute the local girls were, and the American girls responded with "ugh, you guys are such pigs." Not five minutes later, the girls were cooing "ohmygod the guys here are sooo cuuute."

(07-22-2012 12:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  So, Basil, to answer your original assertion, do the same things you've learned to do with American women. Never let on to women how much you've worked to earn their affection, because it will only lower your value.

On that note, I had an impromptu date with an OKC chick. She proceeded to tell me "You're negging the shit out of me." I gamely asked her what this 'negging' is, and I got a brief lesson in game from her, complete with a citation of 'The Game.' Of course, she proudly concluded that because she could pick it out and tell when one of these marauding players would use it, it had no effect on her. Ha... no.

Post: #23

The only thing in this article of interest to me was the part about testosterone increasing in women as they get older thus increasing their sex drive

In my experience, many women in late 30s to mid 40's are horny as hell and love to fuck and do so with a lot fewer emotional hangups

However, it is a myth that they are desperate enough to fuck anybody or that no game is required- the attractive ones at least still definitely have standards.

But a decent looking guy with game can take advantage of the horniness and absolutely clean up in this age group

Post: #24

One of my best friends ran a train with his boy on an Indian girl (from India) they met out at bar in NYC. Keep in mind this chick was married (to an Indian guy) and the two dudes who ran the train were black. She was hitting on my friend and they chatted her up, did a venue change, more drinking, then end of story. One was getting head while the other gave backshots and then they switched.

Lots of whores out there these days. Know what you're getting into.

Post: #25

(07-22-2012 11:21 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  I still maintain that what we're seeing is linked to innate female hypergamy. That hypergamy has, for a number of reasons (including the cultural issues and solipsism you mentioned) run amuck, mutating into a more absurd beast than we have ever known and thus creating some of the issues we're talking about now with regards to the temperament of the western female.

Athlone, per usual, is dead right.

Face the reality -- at least one out of every 4 (and I bet it's closer to 3) married women in the USA from 35 to 50 will cheat. The hamster will rationalize the cheating. The boredom with Beta Husband, along with the hormone switch that moves them into an area of supreme horniness, will drive the cheating.

"It's OK," says the hamster, "because he makes me feel alive!! Like a woman!!"

This a key reason I love to fuck married women. They are ripe, they are ready,and they know that they want to really get it on.

If not me, then it will be someone else. I am not tempting them. I am the outlet for the temptation they are going to succumb to eventually.

Gentlemen, there is no greater cynic about women than me. Their behavior does not disgust me because it is what it is -- the hypergamous instinct in full flower. It is amusing to me when some guys find what I do appalling -- yet trust me, that single 8HB you picked up for the SNL and who maybe you managed to get into your rotation is on the lookout for the next best bang too.

This is the nature of women, especially women in the USA. This is who they are.