(07-23-2012 10:20 PM)Brian Wrote:  you see, here's the thing about people who shoot people - they usually go out of their way to shoot people who cant shoot back.

The gun control crowd cannot connect the dots to save their lives. They refuse to see that all these psychopath on a rampage shootings follow a similar pattern: psychopath targets gun-free zone, slaughters unarmed people, and as soon as someone who is capable of shooting back shows up, they surrender or shoot themselves.

None of these guys has the balls to shoot it out on a 2 way range. They just look for sheep, and with gun control, we keep serving up lambs for the slaughter.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-07...rifle-ammo

Yes, you can buy them online. I'm not looking for one, so am not going to waste my time finding a specific link to it. He bought them online.

Could he have found a semi-automatic if it wasn't so readily available online? Maybe, maybe not. It really cannot be quantified. It would obviously been more difficult if they were not sold online. Would he have still used the regular guns and killed people? Obviously, yes. Would he have killed less people? Possibly.

In my opinion, military-style weaponry should be reserved for those in the military. You simply have too many loose bolts out there. If you guys think all sorts of weapons should be available to the public, that's fine. Maybe bazooka's will be legal one day too.

(07-23-2012 11:12 PM)bluemonday Wrote:  http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-07...rifle-ammo

That's what I figured; you're relying on the media to educate you about guns. Holmes did not use an assault rifle. He used a semiautomatic rifle.
Guys who hunt deer will often use more powerful rifles than what Holmes used.

But if you listen to the women from The View, they'll tell you that rifle can be fired 100x in < 1 sec. It is to laugh.

On a somewhat related note, I would think that if a man, particularly an RVF member, found himself wholly in agreement with the feminist hosts of The View on an issue, that he would reconsider his position and perhaps gather more evidence before coming to a conclusion.

(07-23-2012 11:12 PM)bluemonday Wrote:  http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-07...rifle-ammo

Yes, you can buy them online. I'm not looking for one, so am not going to waste my time finding a specific link to it. He bought them online.

Could he have found a semi-automatic if it wasn't so readily available online? Maybe, maybe not. It really cannot be quantified. It would obviously been more difficult if they were not sold online. Would he have still used the regular guns and killed people? Obviously, yes. Would he have killed less people? Possibly.

In my opinion, military-style weaponry should be reserved for those in the military. You simply have too many loose bolts out there. If you guys think all sorts of weapons should be available to the public, that's fine. Maybe bazooka's will be legal one day too.

it doesnt matter. it wont stop anything. the kid at VA Tech didnt have a military type assault rifle, he just had a few semi auto handguns and extra clips. you could eliminate everything past six shooters and some whackjob would stockpile six shooters, put 20 of them in a backpack, and still get off 120 shots. when people are intent on killing the only rules dont stop them, bans dont stop them, the only thing that will truly stop them is force, and the most practical kind of force to use against someone with a gun is a gun.

Force would stop them in the act of committing that crime but other facts them drive them to go that route in the first place.

I agree with Gun-happy folks on that from that it does not matter what the fuck you do or what bans you place nut jobs will still find a way.

But Gun-happy folks I need y'all to peel back and try to discuss the roots of these issues.

Talking about the physical item... the gun.. is a herring. Establishment types know that is not the issue, and when they eventually ban them the intent will not be to limit crime. At all. It all runs a lot more deep.

What drives Detroit to have 100+ murders per year, per capital 1000% more killings then Windsor Ontario which is literally across a river and shares many similarities.

Pro-gun folks IMO win the argument on the fact that bans or laws won't help shit as you remove guns from responsible hands but I need help on prying open why this stuff happens in the first place.

Why do people in Detroit kill each other at a rate of 1000% times more than Windsor, Ontario?

I think we need to agree to disagree.

Either way, these guns were bought online and shipped to them directly. It's really too easy. Anyone who escaped from the mental ward can order one that easily. There is no assault weapons ban in the USA at this point. Someone can turn themselves into a one-man militia if they'd like. You may think it's an amazing right, others think that's just plain dangerous with all the off-the-rocker types out there.

(07-24-2012 12:04 AM)kosko Wrote:  Why do people in Detroit kill each other at a rate of 1000% times more than Windsor, Ontario?

Simple.

Poverty / Demographics

Violence & Crime have little to do with gun-laws / bans. People will always be able to get illegal stuff. It is a cultural thing.

The people that want guns will find a way to get guns. All gun laws do is put law abiding citizens at a disadvantage.

(07-24-2012 12:15 AM)The Internationalist Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 12:04 AM)kosko Wrote:  Why do people in Detroit kill each other at a rate of 1000% times more than Windsor, Ontario?

Simple.

Poverty / Demographics

Violence & Crime have little to do with gun-laws / bans. People will always be able to get illegal stuff. It is a cultural thing.

The people that want guns will find a way to get guns. All gun laws do is put law abiding citizens at a disadvantage.

It's because Detroit is a hood.

(07-23-2012 10:59 PM)bluemonday Wrote:  I understand supporting assault weapons probably looks "alpha", and that's why it's universally agreed on. It also needs to be known that there are lots of loose bolts out there. Holmes for example. Weapons have a capacity to kill innocent crowds of people, drugs do not.

I support assault weapons because they're cool. Also, the whole "you can't use an assault weapon" for hunting shtick is misguided, since most of them can do semi-automatic (one round per trigger pull). Nothing wrong with that. Burst fire for hunting is bonkers though.

The other guys make a good point though. The biggest criminal deterrents aren't cops, it's grannies packing snub nosed .44 magnums.

(07-24-2012 12:15 AM)The Internationalist Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 12:04 AM)kosko Wrote:  Why do people in Detroit kill each other at a rate of 1000% times more than Windsor, Ontario?

Simple.

Poverty / Demographics

Violence & Crime have little to do with gun-laws / bans. People will always be able to get illegal stuff. It is a cultural thing.

The people that want guns will find a way to get guns. All gun laws do is put law abiding citizens at a disadvantage.

(07-24-2012 12:17 AM)bluemonday Wrote:  It's because Detroit is a hood.

Windsor Ontario is just as much as dump as Detorit is. Both we're blown to hell from the Auto Industry going into decline. But Detoit people were blasting each other in the 100s per year with many people crossing back and forth while Windsor did not have a murder for 3-4 years... ZERO. While the few did happen we're Detroit people comming over and killing people in Windsor...

What about Aboriginal reserves in Canada that make many hoods in America look like garden gated communities? These places have guns and a hunting culture with more dire housing, social, and economic situations but they still do not kill at the same rates.

Agian its not as simple as Poverty and Demographics.

Try agian.

Its much deeper than Poor folks and Blacks and Latinos.


Is Culture the problem?

Is Society the problem?

Or is the System the problem?

Pick your choice and elaborate please.

(07-24-2012 12:06 AM)bluemonday Wrote:  Either way, these guns were bought online and shipped to them directly. It's really too easy. Anyone who escaped from the mental ward can order one that easily. There is no assault weapons ban in the USA at this point.

More misinformation.

1.You have obviously never bought a firearm online. Someone who escaped from a mental ward will be denied by the NICS check. As would a criminal. As would a fugitive. As would a man who's got a restraining order against him (legally tying yourself to a female is a good way to lose your gun rights; seen it happen to a friend).

2. Assault rifles are banned in the US, and have been for a long time. For the love of God, please educate yourself instead of continually spewing the bullshit you heard on CNN/CBS/NBC/ABC.

(07-24-2012 12:34 AM)kosko Wrote:  Agian its not as simple as Poverty and Demographics.

Try agian.

Its much deeper than Poor folks and Blacks and Latinos.


Is Culture the problem?

Is Society the problem?

Or is the System the problem?

Pick your choice and elaborate please.

Windsor Ontario

White - 77%
Black - 3.9%

Detroit Michigan

White - 10.6%
Black - 82.7%

Quick google search. Check for accuracy.....

So, there is complete gun control - but they are still extremely easy to get. No surprises there. Look at that Virginia Tech shooter, guy was in & out of mental wards, yet orders guns easily.

(07-24-2012 12:44 AM)The Internationalist Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 12:34 AM)kosko Wrote:  Agian its not as simple as Poverty and Demographics.

Try agian.

Its much deeper than Poor folks and Blacks and Latinos.


Is Culture the problem?

Is Society the problem?

Or is the System the problem?

Pick your choice and elaborate please.

Windsor Ontario

White - 77%
Black - 3.9%

Detroit Michigan

White - 10.6%
Black - 82.7%

Quick google search. Check for accuracy.....

So Americas issues is that Blacks kill to many people?

Even though the majority of mass shooters have not been black?

Aside from the DMV Beltway highway shooter(s) the majority of mass shootings/killings in the USA have been carried out by White folks or other races.

- Columbine

- V-tech

- OKC Bombings

- WTC Bombing #1

- Waco

Race is not the issue.

Try again.

(07-24-2012 12:04 AM)kosko Wrote:  Pro-gun folks IMO win the argument on the fact that bans or laws won't help shit as you remove guns from responsible hands but I need help on prying open why this stuff happens in the first place.

Why do people in Detroit kill each other at a rate of 1000% times more than Windsor, Ontario?

That's a complicated issue and probably deserves its own thread.

Drugs play a large role here. Without knowing the numbers off the top of my head, I'd speculate a large % of homicides in the US are gang/drug related. Legalize drugs and you eliminate the major income stream that gangs are killing each other to control. But that will never happen as too many people profit from our so-called war on drugs.

Now, why are Americans consuming such large amounts of mind altering drugs, both legal and illegal? That is another can of worms.

(07-24-2012 12:52 AM)kosko Wrote:  So Americas issues is that Blacks kill to many people?

Even though the majority of mass shooters have not been black?

Aside from the DMV Beltway highway shooter(s) the majority of mass shootings in the USA have been carried out by White folks.

Race is not the issue.

Try again.

I see you don't let the numbers & facts get in the way of your reasoning.

The issue is poverty.

What does mass shooters have to do with crime rates of a city?

Take the top 5 cities in America with the highest homicide and you will find 1 thing in common.

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...erica?lite

Then take the 5 most safest cities in America and see what they have in common.

The numbers don't lie my friend.

Gang violence is usually associated with blacks. Most of the inner-city homicides occur with the black community. Not sure why it is that way, but it is.

These mass killing sprees are rarely black. Nerds and recluses in their own way are more of a threat to society at large.

(07-24-2012 12:57 AM)The Internationalist Wrote:  

(07-24-2012 12:52 AM)kosko Wrote:  So Americas issues is that Blacks kill to many people?

Even though the majority of mass shooters have not been black?

Aside from the DMV Beltway highway shooter(s) the majority of mass shootings in the USA have been carried out by White folks.

Race is not the issue.

Try again.

I see you don't let the numbers & facts get in the way of your reasoning.

The issue is poverty.

What does mass shooters have to do with crime rates of a city?

Take the top 5 cities in America with the highest homicide and you will find 1 thing in common.

Then take the 5 most safest cities in America and see what they have in common.

The numbers don't lie my friend.

Agian as I have noted in Canada we have Aboriginal communities that live in third world conditions. With guns a plenty and more social problems then you could ever imagine. And still thier levels of extreme violence is tame in comparison. An Aboriginal Canadian has easy access to hunting rifles, guns and knives are evreyware on these reserves.

Nobody is starving to death and suffering extreme malunitrition in America in the hood. These Aborginals peoples have kids whom have swollen bellies and can't even drink clean water in some parts.

Is this Chicago?







And your telling me poverty is the main issue? If so Aboriginal murder rates would be on the same levels per capita as in America. They are tops in Canada but far from the same levels per person as America.

Try again.

Kosko,

So the cities with the highest homicide rates all being dominated by minorities is just a coincidence huh?

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...erica?lite

Let me guess, you think Mexico's high homicide rate has nothing to do with poverty & crime as well?

smh....

In Canada the two Cites and Province with the highest murder rates in 2011 also had the largest GDP growth, and lowest unemployment rates in Canada in 2011.

?

The poverty and race argument is too weak. If these factors clearly led to more extreme gun violence then it would be the same in Canada also.

Try again.

Hey Kosko

Here is an experiment. Which cities in Canada have the highest percentage of aboriginals? See if those cities have the most violent crime. I can already tell you Winnipeg, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Regina and Prince George have some of the highest aboriginal populations are are all in the top 5 for violent crime.

(07-23-2012 11:05 PM)assman Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 10:20 PM)Brian Wrote:  you see, here's the thing about people who shoot people - they usually go out of their way to shoot people who cant shoot back.

The gun control crowd cannot connect the dots to save their lives. They refuse to see that all these psychopath on a rampage shootings follow a similar pattern: psychopath targets gun-free zone, slaughters unarmed people, and as soon as someone who is capable of shooting back shows up, they surrender or shoot themselves.

None of these guys has the balls to shoot it out on a 2 way range. They just look for sheep, and with gun control, we keep serving up lambs for the slaughter.

Stupid cartoon.

Solipsistic fem thinking: "They are just like us."

They aren't.

They are crazy.

I own about a half dozen guns including an AR-15, a Glock pistol, and a Beretta Elite I (which is the predecessor to the Elite II in gmanifesto's avatar. What the news article failed to mention about ordering firearms online is that THEY MUST be shipped to someone with a FFL (Federal Firearms License) in your state of residence. You must then fill out the appropriate paperwork for purchasing a firearm, and pay a transfer fee. You can take possession of your online gun once the paperwork checks out.

As for buying ammo online, who cares? You think he couldn't have easily bought a similar quantity in person at retail venues? He'd have to visit several of them, but he could do it. The reason people buy it online is cost. Everybody who owns an AR-15 gets Rambo on that shit from time to time and empties and sprays down a target with 50-100 rounds of ammo, just to see what it's like. That shit gets expensive.

As for that BS article someone posted about how you can buy "assault rifles" online I already answered the first part above. The article also said that his 100 round drum magazine would have been illegal 10 years ago. This is utter bullshit. What was illegal 10 years ago was the new manufacture of high capacity magazines. The market for slightly used high capacity AR-15 mags 10 years ago was saturated to the point that you could get a military surplus 30 round magazine for about $25. And that's after the ban had been around for 7 or 8 years.

Go over to Bestgore.com watch any number of Mexican drug cartel beheading videos, and tell me that banning guns will make things better.

How many mother fuckers died from alcohol related car accidents in the 24 hour period surrounding that shooting? Shouldn't we ban alcohol? After all, if you've ever held a driver's license, you are well aware of the risks of driving drunk and we can easily argue that to drive drunk, you've made a premeditated choice to kill someone.

Any society with strict gun laws will never want to become a guns-are-free-for-grabs-society. One click away.

The problem is deeply rooted in US history and culture, and the hardest thing to change is people's mentality. The freedom to have guns is perceived as natural as putting peanut butter on your morning sandwich.

The problem is people think this is still the 18th century where you need a gun to cover the ass of your wife and kids as responsible Father. Nowadays, a gun at home can cause more harm to daddy-in-a-bad-mood than anything else. Again, stats enough support this fact.

A Mass killing is only one click away for any Beta out there. And he even ain't gotta be in a bad mood!

Still this is very hard to accept to people who haven't lived outside the US. Things will change, but very slowly. in the meanwhile, too many innocent victims will pay this stubbornness to have guns everywhere with their lives. All because of the lack of change due to the lack of willingness to change.

I've been looking for about 30 minutes now and I can't find the cases. It happened in Charles County. I think the judge was Robert Nalley. The problem is that Nalley is now a disgraced former judge so google searches regarding him, tend to focus on his disgrace and removal rather than his overturned conviction(s).