Post: #1

I couldn't find that thread we made a few months ago about our three biggest problems, so please excuse the dupe-ness here (or, is there a way to merge the two?)

I think my current, biggest sticking point is that, even though I'm constantly immersing myself in manosphere writing, I still treat women as if they are men.

Last night, I got this girl back to my house and we were playing Texas Hold 'em.

I kicked her butt in the game, which we bet $20 on. We made out a little, but something went awry and she wanted to leave. She didn't have $20, so she waited outside as I put my shoes on to walk her to an ATM.

We get to the ATM and she essentially starts telling me that I'm creeping her out, and how she's not going to pay the $20 because she doesn't feel like it.

I called her out, of course. She walked off.

People get down on us for pointing out the differences between men and women, but there really is a huge inequity in how the genders function/think.

Nobody wants to admit it. Calling girls out doesn't do anything, because you can't really call a girl out at all. That would be like trying to call out a dog; they have a totally different logic or way of working.

Post: #2

Heh dude..
why did you make her go to the ATM.. I see how that can qualify as creepy.

I'd have told her that it's fine, but next time you meet drinks are on her. And continue having fun.

Post: #3

It's creepy to ask someone to pay up on a bet? It's not like I forced her at gunpoint to go to the ATM.

Post: #4

(07-15-2012 11:17 AM)soup Wrote:  It's creepy to ask someone to pay up on a bet? It's not like I forced her at gunpoint to go to the ATM.

Ha, that's pretty funny.

I know western girls can act masculine. But at some point, if they're not a raging dyke, they all have moments, a little glimpse where they become feminine and vulnerable. It's like a little window, maybe it's 15 seconds or 15 minutes. That's where the seduction's gotta come in. You can't go from telling her to pony up her wager to getting her to spread her legs or get on her knees. I mean, you might be able to with some girls, some real down and dirty hoes. But apparently not this chick.

Honestly, if it was me, I'd say something like, "No cash? I guess we'll have to figure something else out" with a huge smirk on my face. Even shit like that you gotta be careful with your delivery so it's not too "creepy".

Post: #5

That's a hilarious situation mate, especially the way you played it out. I'm not saying what you did was wrong or right, i do however think you are right to demand equality in everything, as simple as a gambling debt, however there's a missing link in your story.

What do you mean by "something went awry and she wanted to leave"? was she like pissed off or just fucked in the head, got up and wanted to leave?

Post: #6

I am laughing at the vision of Soup marching this girl to the ATM to collect $20

Post: #7

I can't say you were wrong for wanting to collect a debt. You were working on honor, but that's something women lack. You held her to her word, but what a woman says is worthless. I find it hard to believe that she didn't have $20 on her. She pulled the whole "let's walk to the ATM" bit to stall until she could figure out a way not to pay you. She played the victim, the "you're creeping me out" card to get out of it. You could have said something like thedude3737 suggested, but no matter how you tried to phrase "let's work something out," she would have taken it as creepy probably. She's just a flake - there's probably no way you could have salvaged this one.

Post: #8

Try fucking her during the game, unless there are other people there. Hold 'em is so fucking boring unless you're playing for real money with real people(not some girl you're trying to bang). Give her the good dick and she will magically find that 20$ she didn't have, or maybe in the morning you can make her buy you breakfast or pay you the money.

Post: #9

(07-15-2012 08:51 PM)Perseus Wrote:  That's a hilarious situation mate, especially the way you played it out. I'm not saying what you did was wrong or right, i do however think you are right to demand equality in everything, as simple as a gambling debt, however there's a missing link in your story.

What do you mean by "something went awry and she wanted to leave"? was she like pissed off or just fucked in the head, got up and wanted to leave?

I fucked the date up early on by drinking too much (or more than her). We had met up in a wine bar, and she suggested we go back to my place and play hold-em and have some wine. So, I thought this was on for sure.

We get back and start playing. I made her deal the cards (she told me she used to deal in an illegal gambling parlor downtown).

At one point in the game she dealt me some cards, and asked me what I wanted to do.

I leaned over and kissed her.

It worked for a second but she pulled away. I should have pulled away before her, but I was getting drunk. It's these little important subtleties that drinking can fuck up.

She took a deep breath, closed her eyes and said. "Try again." So we kissed a little, but then stopped to finish the game. I beat her very quickly, she might have been intentionally trying to lose the game fast. So, we put the cards down and sat on the couch.

She had her leg crossed away from me, which is a body language "red light" but being that I was drunk I went in for the kiss anyway. That was the point of no return and she was like "Ok, time for me to go."

It's at that point that I brought up the money.

This was the beginning of a bad night. I went out to make the rounds at my usual bars after that. It was a very aggro night. Some chick got angry that I wouldn't move out of the way to let her and her boyfriend order a drink, and she put ice down my back. I went to another bar and made a remark about some guy being gay, and a horde of people threatened to kick my ass. I don't have anything against gay people. The bartender told me to move to the other side of the bar.

After closing time, I was talking to some chicks outside. They blew me out pretty quickly, but I kept trying to talk to them. These other guys that it looked like they were with attacked me, and one of them ripped/shredded my shirt.

I'm going to try go low on the booze.

Post: #10

(07-15-2012 10:15 PM)soup Wrote:  She suggested we go back to my place and play hold-em and have some wine.

Rather than play against her directly, you could have go on-line and played against other people. Then it would have been the two of you looking at a screen plotting together how to screw over everyone else.

I recommend the horse track waaaaaaay over poker. But that's a very scheduled option.

Post: #11

I swear I read that through several times and I thought you bet her twenty dollars to go ATM sexually.

After I got over that, a few points:

- girls bet you so they can lose and be in your 'debt.' It is a way they show their feminine side. I've had girls who'll continuously bring up the fact that they 'owe me' months after the joke/bet had run its course. If you act nonchalant about it and occasionally say 'remember that time you lost that bet..I think you should (go the store and rob me some biscuits, or whatever) . The key is being nonchalant though, because

- Whenever a girl says the word 'creepy,' it is a sign that you've invested too much and need to back off. Think of it as the 'creepy guy' is the guy who leans in to talk too much. If you've creeped her out, you're metaphorically a guy leaning in. You need to pull away as soon as she says it, and play it cool afterwards. It is 'damage control' though.

Post: #12

(07-15-2012 10:15 PM)soup Wrote:  

(07-15-2012 08:51 PM)Perseus Wrote:  That's a hilarious situation mate, especially the way you played it out. I'm not saying what you did was wrong or right, i do however think you are right to demand equality in everything, as simple as a gambling debt, however there's a missing link in your story.

What do you mean by "something went awry and she wanted to leave"? was she like pissed off or just fucked in the head, got up and wanted to leave?

I fucked the date up early on by drinking too much (or more than her). We had met up in a wine bar, and she suggested we go back to my place and play hold-em and have some wine. So, I thought this was on for sure.

We get back and start playing. I made her deal the cards (she told me she used to deal in an illegal gambling parlor downtown).

At one point in the game she dealt me some cards, and asked me what I wanted to do.

I leaned over and kissed her.

It worked for a second but she pulled away. I should have pulled away before her, but I was getting drunk. It's these little important subtleties that drinking can fuck up.

She took a deep breath, closed her eyes and said. "Try again." So we kissed a little, but then stopped to finish the game. I beat her very quickly, she might have been intentionally trying to lose the game fast. So, we put the cards down and sat on the couch.

She had her leg crossed away from me, which is a body language "red light" but being that I was drunk I went in for the kiss anyway. That was the point of no return and she was like "Ok, time for me to go."

It's at that point that I brought up the money.

This was the beginning of a bad night. I went out to make the rounds at my usual bars after that. It was a very aggro night. Some chick got angry that I wouldn't move out of the way to let her and her boyfriend order a drink, and she put ice down my back. I went to another bar and made a remark about some guy being gay, and a horde of people threatened to kick my ass. I don't have anything against gay people. The bartender told me to move to the other side of the bar.

After closing time, I was talking to some chicks outside. They blew me out pretty quickly, but I kept trying to talk to them. These other guys that it looked like they were with attacked me, and one of them ripped/shredded my shirt.

I'm going to try go low on the booze.

Frankly, if it were me. I'd be mighty pleased after a night like that.

Post: #13

(07-15-2012 10:15 PM)soup Wrote:  This was the beginning of a bad night. I went out to make the rounds at my usual bars after that. It was a very aggro night. Some chick got angry that I wouldn't move out of the way to let her and her boyfriend order a drink, and she put ice down my back. I went to another bar and made a remark about some guy being gay, and a horde of people threatened to kick my ass. I don't have anything against gay people. The bartender told me to move to the other side of the bar.

After closing time, I was talking to some chicks outside. They blew me out pretty quickly, but I kept trying to talk to them. These other guys that it looked like they were with attacked me, and one of them ripped/shredded my shirt.

I'm going to try go low on the booze.

Yeah, the bottle will make a fool of you. If you're having that many negative encounters with random people then you're probably at fault.

Post: #14

Ha! This sounds like an awesome experience. The only downside is you let her tell you what to do "try again". Game over. Basically said you should have just said fuck it all from the get go and had sex with her right then and there instead of thinking about $20.

Nothing was lost.

Even if you get 86'd from a place it really doesn't matter man. I haven't yet but if some crazy shit goes down and I get banned from some place well I am going to go find a new venue!

Also what's all this don't pay for shit at all costs mentality I see around here. If the girl wants to have sex and I can feel it no sense in not buying a drink to move you across the line. If you pay for breakfast in the morning after is that also?

Shit I must be "paying for it" I guess and I'll exclude every single time I have had sex and paid for anything for a girl... I'd be a virgin!

Also dont understand the whole calling girls cunts to their face and treating them like dirt? Not me at all!

Post: #15

Dude, this is exactly the shit I wrestle with all the time.

I feel ya man.

WTF do you do? I have no fucking clue. If I did I'd be a millionaire.

Both alcohol & women, can't live with em can't live without em.

Post: #16

(07-15-2012 10:15 PM)soup Wrote:  

(07-15-2012 08:51 PM)Perseus Wrote:  That's a hilarious situation mate, especially the way you played it out. I'm not saying what you did was wrong or right, i do however think you are right to demand equality in everything, as simple as a gambling debt, however there's a missing link in your story.

What do you mean by "something went awry and she wanted to leave"? was she like pissed off or just fucked in the head, got up and wanted to leave?

I fucked the date up early on by drinking too much (or more than her). We had met up in a wine bar, and she suggested we go back to my place and play hold-em and have some wine. So, I thought this was on for sure.

We get back and start playing. I made her deal the cards (she told me she used to deal in an illegal gambling parlor downtown).

At one point in the game she dealt me some cards, and asked me what I wanted to do.

I leaned over and kissed her.

It worked for a second but she pulled away. I should have pulled away before her, but I was getting drunk. It's these little important subtleties that drinking can fuck up.

She took a deep breath, closed her eyes and said. "Try again." So we kissed a little, but then stopped to finish the game. I beat her very quickly, she might have been intentionally trying to lose the game fast. So, we put the cards down and sat on the couch.

She had her leg crossed away from me, which is a body language "red light" but being that I was drunk I went in for the kiss anyway. That was the point of no return and she was like "Ok, time for me to go."

It's at that point that I brought up the money.

This was the beginning of a bad night. I went out to make the rounds at my usual bars after that. It was a very aggro night. Some chick got angry that I wouldn't move out of the way to let her and her boyfriend order a drink, and she put ice down my back. I went to another bar and made a remark about some guy being gay, and a horde of people threatened to kick my ass. I don't have anything against gay people. The bartender told me to move to the other side of the bar.

After closing time, I was talking to some chicks outside. They blew me out pretty quickly, but I kept trying to talk to them. These other guys that it looked like they were with attacked me, and one of them ripped/shredded my shirt.

I'm going to try go low on the booze.

I don't care if you blew you it or not, but mad respect to you for actually plowing through and not giving up, as i have done so in the past but learned to not quit till the bars doors are locked.

As for the girl, i think you did the right thing man, because after the card game, she seemed to have changed her mind about you, so might as well make some cash off of her before ditching her crazy ass on the street.

Post: #17

I don't think this is a girl thing.
I was small-time pro poker player for a few years - I've heard a lot of stories about gamblers making bets with their non-gambler friends who end up welching on them, both guys and girls. It's just smart not to make bets with people and expect to get paid unless you know they have an interest in gambling.

Post: #18

I am extremely disappointed that no one has mentioned strip poker.