Post: #26

His slow carb diet is legit, though. I did it for two months and got really lean, almost had a six pack.

Post: #27

(04-26-2012 04:09 PM)bacan Wrote:  His slow carb diet is legit, though. I did it for two months and got really lean, almost had a six pack.

I believe you. I see the difference in my body when I eat more bread, pasta etc. versus when I stick to just beans and lentils for my carb sources.

If a Stanford MD is saying that white bread and beans have the same effect on the body, while milk is fine, then I question his agenda, or maybe he needs to return his MD, because he doesn't sound very smart.

Post: #28

(04-26-2012 04:21 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

(04-26-2012 04:09 PM)bacan Wrote:  His slow carb diet is legit, though. I did it for two months and got really lean, almost had a six pack.

I believe you. I see the difference in my body when I eat more bread, pasta etc. versus when I stick to just beans and lentils for my carb sources.

If a Stanford MD is saying that white bread and beans have the same effect on the body, while milk is fine, then I question his agenda, or maybe he needs to return his MD, because he doesn't sound very smart.

MDs don't learn nutrition in medical school.

Doctors are the last people to talk about diet, exercise, and steroids with.

Post: #29

(04-26-2012 04:47 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(04-26-2012 04:21 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

(04-26-2012 04:09 PM)bacan Wrote:  His slow carb diet is legit, though. I did it for two months and got really lean, almost had a six pack.

I believe you. I see the difference in my body when I eat more bread, pasta etc. versus when I stick to just beans and lentils for my carb sources.

If a Stanford MD is saying that white bread and beans have the same effect on the body, while milk is fine, then I question his agenda, or maybe he needs to return his MD, because he doesn't sound very smart.

MDs don't learn nutrition in medical school.

Doctors are the last people to talk about diet, exercise, and steroids with.

I agree, but the OP was waving the guy's Stanford MD credentials in my face as a reason why he was going to believe his version. I was just reiterating the point, like you said, that this Stanford MD is full of crap.

Post: #30

(04-26-2012 04:09 PM)bacan Wrote:  His slow carb diet is legit, though. I did it for two months and got really lean, almost had a six pack.

That's because you were eating fewer calories. Bread and pasta are dense calorie sources, which is great if you are doing physical work all day. If you are a cubicle jockey, you're better off cutting back on them.

Potatoes, rice and pulses are also carb sources, there are just fewer calories in them pound for pound.

Post: #31

(04-26-2012 04:47 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  MDs don't learn nutrition in medical school.

More of the health and fitness "red pill" !

Post: #32

(04-26-2012 11:36 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(04-26-2012 05:55 AM)finton_the_toole Wrote:  skinless chicken breast (yes I do eat it about once a week), is a travesty of food. It so easily ends up dry and disgusting.

Yes, chicken breasts can be tough to cook if you want to keep it a juicy, flavorful.

I think the best thing to do is to slice it thin. This was it cooks up very fast and maintains most of the moisture. Cooking a full size chicken breast properly can be tough for an inexperienced chef.

Here is a great way to do it:

A good trick I do is to pound the breast thin in a ziploc bad with a rolling pin or a meat hammer if you have one. This keeps the chickens "natural" skin and will hold in the juices better versus slicing it thin. You pound it paper thin, season it with salt and pepper and sear it and cook it for a few minutes.

It will explode with juice and you will know when its 100% well done because it will release its juice when the meat fibers all stiffen up. fool proof method to the point people don't even trust my chicken because they have never eating breast so juicy they automatically assume its not cooked through.

Post: #33

(04-26-2012 07:32 PM)kosko Wrote:  

(04-26-2012 11:36 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(04-26-2012 05:55 AM)finton_the_toole Wrote:  skinless chicken breast (yes I do eat it about once a week), is a travesty of food. It so easily ends up dry and disgusting.

Yes, chicken breasts can be tough to cook if you want to keep it a juicy, flavorful.

I think the best thing to do is to slice it thin. This was it cooks up very fast and maintains most of the moisture. Cooking a full size chicken breast properly can be tough for an inexperienced chef.

Here is a great way to do it:

A good trick I do is to pound the breast thin in a ziploc bad with a rolling pin or a meat hammer if you have one. This keeps the chickens "natural" skin and will hold in the juices better versus slicing it thin. You pound it paper thin, season it with salt and pepper and sear it and cook it for a few minutes.

It will explode with juice and you will know when its 100% well done because it will release its juice when the meat fibers all stiffen up. fool proof method to the point people don't even trust my chicken because they have never eating breast so juicy they automatically assume its not cooked through.

(04-26-2012 04:47 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(04-26-2012 04:21 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

(04-26-2012 04:09 PM)bacan Wrote:  His slow carb diet is legit, though. I did it for two months and got really lean, almost had a six pack.

I believe you. I see the difference in my body when I eat more bread, pasta etc. versus when I stick to just beans and lentils for my carb sources.

If a Stanford MD is saying that white bread and beans have the same effect on the body, while milk is fine, then I question his agenda, or maybe he needs to return his MD, because he doesn't sound very smart.

MDs don't learn nutrition in medical school.

Doctors are the last people to talk about diet, exercise, and steroids with.

this is true. MDs don't know shit about diet and nutrition. Most doctors eat like crap them selves.

Sports science and nutritional science don't cross paths either.

Humans have complicated something that at its very core is very fuking simple.

Eat clean nutrient dense foods from all energy sources (fats, carbs, protiens). Eat foods plentiful in minerals, vitamins and important elements. Supplement only when its impossible to derive
the needed nutrient from diet. And consume calories at surplus or deficit of whatever your lifestyle demands.

4 simple rules that will solve almost all health issues you may have.

* didn't realized I doubled that post up. Mods clean it up if its possible.

Post: #34

Can't you edit it yourself? It's as simple as highlighting the section and pressing delete.

Post: #35

Let me tell you why that quoted review is stupid.

I will make a bet with anyone here.

Give me one of your fat fuck American friends.

Put him on the Four Hour Body. Make him take "bullshit" supplements and follow a "bullshit" diet.

I guarantee he will lose 20 pounds of fat within two months.

None of you guys hating on the diet would take that bet.

Any book - Zone, Paleo, South Beach, 4 Hour Body - that gets people eating healthier and into the gym is a step in the right direction.

Stop hating.

Post: #36

(04-26-2012 04:21 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  If a Stanford MD is saying that white bread and beans have the same effect on the body, while milk is fine, then I question his agenda, or maybe he needs to return his MD, because he doesn't sound very smart.

That guy must be a complete wack job. Buying and doing everything the book describes, including complex medical equipment?

This would be like growing a beard, using baking soda for everything, going to every single city and bar Roosh mentions in his books, and then complaining that you can't get laid so its all complete bullshit.

And for the record, I never followed any diet advice from the 4HB, but had multiple friends who did and lost a lot of weight. I think one dropped 20+ pounds.

Post: #37

(04-26-2012 08:04 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Let me tell you why that quoted review is stupid.

I will make a bet with anyone here.

Give me one of your fat fuck American friends.

Put him on the Four Hour Body. Make him take "bullshit" supplements and follow a "bullshit" diet.

I guarantee he will lose 20 pounds of fat within two months.

None of you guys hating on the diet would take that bet.

Any book - Zone, Paleo, South Beach, 4 Hour Body - that gets people eating healthier and into the gym is a step in the right direction.

Stop hating.

I don't have any fat friends, but I'll play along and say I do. You can take him and put him on a bullshit Tim Ferriss 4hr gimmick workout.

Now, I want to make a bet with you.
At the same time, you give me one of your fat friends. I will train him according to my own methods.

After two months I promise you my results would be superior.

Also, in the aggregate, avoiding gimmick bs, will lead to stable and consistent workout patterns that maintain a consistent level of health and well being for decades, like Jack LaLanne.

Post: #38

Of course I was eating less calories..... (Duh)

The idea behind the diet is that foods that are processed slowly keep you full for longer and do not trigger the blood sugar response that puts the body in fat storage mode.

Switching white bread and pasta for lentils, beans and lots of veggies was great and being able to pig out on the other days was awesome. I literally ate insanely on those days and still got really cut.

In the end that diet was super strict for me and it made me go crazy in the end (and eat back some of my progress unfortunately). If I do it again, I'll do like a month of the strict four hour body diet, a month of regular healthy maintenance eating, a month of the strict diet. etc.

The general rules of not drinking calories and avoiding simple carbs are diet choices that everyone should apply. No one on this forum should be drinking full-calorie soda for example.

Post: #39

Most people want to believe that the only reason they are not in great shape is because they are not taking the right supplements (magic pills, lol), whereby in all the Russian literature I have looked, even their Olympic athletes never take them. If I had to come up with some hard and fast rules for general lifetime fitness, it would probably look like your list you have already.

And yeah, I can't trust the author because he has a huge mishmash of training techniques and I don't think he has used his system in full, simultaneously. I can pick out where he stole some of his training shit from, in all seriousness, and using it without citing the actual author (for the sake of his 30 minute brevity sessions) is a disservice to people looking for credible authorities on a subject.

Post: #40

I'll chime in since I got the 4HB book when it first came out.

I'm with MikeCF: haters gonna hate. The reviewer's argument is akin to what a normal Beta would say when hearing about game for the first time: no way could you get hotter women more frequently by changing certain things about your personality, how you approach, etc. I'll just go about trying to make it in the rat race, acting like an Herb, hoping that some pussy will throw itself to me and that I won't get fucked by a divorce in the long-run.

Tim Ferriss definitely realizes that medical doctors are against anything that he preaches in his book. And I quote from the beginning of 4HB: "Do doctors normally take advantage of the 50+ years of experience that professional bodybuilders have testing, even synthesizing, esters of testosterone? No. Most doctors view bodybuilders as cavalier amateurs, and bodybuilders view doctors as too risk-averse to do anything innovative".

I'm dating two doctors right now, and each separately (obviously) says I'm wasting my time and money following this book. Or taking any supplements at all for that matter. They won't even listen to my arguments about Vitamin D and iodine supplementation, which is backed up by a lot of recent, successful medical trials. But yet they can't stop saying how I have such an amazing body and look so young for my age (these girls are 6 years younger than me).

About the book:

I haven't been overweight since I was an adolescent (I'm 5'11", 170lbs), but I gave the Slow Carb diet a try with my ex-gf last year (who quit it after a month, which caused me to dump her). I lost about 10lbs, likely all fat as I was still working out a bit and didn't have any strength loss. I had a six-pack for the first time in my life. Almost everybody I knew commented that I looked thinner (naturally they said I looked too thin since they are almost all overweight).

The diet is ridiculously simple to follow and actually rewarding. I've never gotten overweight because I would eschew all the crap out there, like candy bars, donuts, kids' cereal, fried foods, etc. However, I was missing out on enjoying these foods, especially donuts, for which I have an open desire to consume until I die. With this diet you can actually have whatever the hell you want for one day a week, and it's actually necessary to jumpstart your metabolism.

What is so bad about having legumes in lieu of starchy foods? Black beans are one of the highest sources of antioxidants/polyphenols. Lentils are also ridiculously healthy. I still loosely follow the diet by having legumes with most meals, and I have a nice four-pack with well-defined muscles.

With regards to the rest of the chapters in the book:

1) Damage Control/The Glucose Switch should be combined in one chapter. But the two chapters were helpful for me on binge days. I never put on any weight by following a few of his steps. I did try out Cissus Quadrangularis, and while it didn't preserve my abs when I went binge eating for a week in Mexico City, I definitely noticed that I didn't put on any weight.

2) I have never tried the Four Horsemen of Weight Loss;

3) Didn't follow Ice Age, but do pound a cold glass of water first thing in the morning.

4) Haven't tried out the Last Mile;

5) Building the Perfect Posterior rocks, especially for women. My ex-gf, the one I dumped, did follow the kettlebell routine, and her ass improved noticeably within a month. I never knew about kettlebells before this chapter, and now I'm a big believer. I've had to stop doing them as I'm currently getting physical therapy for a shoulder injury from a long time ago, and as a result my butt has shrunk a lot. I also use the T-handle that he described at the end;

6) I do follow Six-Minute Abs and really like it. The myotatic crunch is killer, but also simple to do.

7) Have not tried from Geek to Freak;

8) I did follow Occam's Protocol. I put on 20lbs in a month, the majority of which was muscle. I more or less doubled my strength in all the exercises after six weeks. You really only work out about 30 minutes a week.

The effect on my body was incredible and noticed by a lot of people. Looking back I would combine what I learned in the Glucose Switch with Occam's to ensure when the crap calories would go to feed my muscles so that I still maintain a four-pack.

9) The 15-Minute Female Orgasm is a misleading title in that it deals with women who have trouble having an orgasm (and how if you work on it 15 minutes a day, you can get better at organisms).

10) I follow the Sex Machine protocol #1 for the most part, and it works: I definitely noticed heightened libido, and still try to maintain it for the most part (I don't do cold showers). I also tried Protocol #2 on two separate occasions but didn't notice anything. I do notice, however, if that I consume a fatty steak, e.g., rib eye, the night before, I have a supercharged libido the following evening, so I think there is truth to his Protocol #2. Also, eating 20 almonds the afternoon leading up to sex generally supercharges my libido when I'm not feeling horny.

11) Perfect Night's Sleep is a great chapter. I bought the Air-O Swiss Travel Ultrasonic Humidifier and notice I sleep more deeply every time I use it. Great product. It also didn't crystallize in my head that consuming more than two glasses of red wine within four hours of falling asleep makes me feel awful the next morning. So now I just consume two, and I sleep great.

I'm also planning on experimenting with California poppy seed and huperzine-A, the latter more for lucid dreaming.

12) I don't follow Becoming Ueberman except for taking a small catnap in the afternoon, which improves my mental performance overall.

13) Reversing Permanent Injuries is the one that I think is most controversial. I have Vibram barefoot shoes and they have helped immensely with any back pain that I did have, so no beef there. And the Egoscue exercises he recommends make my shoulder/cervical pain completely disappear (temporarily however), which is worth the price of the book alone.

However, I did go get Active-Release Therapy (ART) for my shoulder issues, and it didn't do shit. But frankly, I'm getting normal PT now, and it's not really helping either. I'm thinking of maybe flying out to see "Dr. Two Fingers" in Utah to get my shoulder fixed once in for all.

14) I haven't tried flying abroad for surgery

15) I'm going to start the Pre Hab section next week, as I've injured myself twice in the last two years from surfing and feel that my body has to be misaligned. I'm 33 and not getting any younger, so if this prevents any further injuries and still allows me to surf/ski/play softball and raquetball without worrying about my body, then I will be thankful to Tim forever.

16) Have not tried Hacking the Combine.

17) I just began doing the stretching exercises in the Ultra-Endurance chapter to get my body race ready. I have a 5K coming up in June that I ran in 29 minutes last year. I will be performing the stretch exercises while running barefoot and utilizing the Pose method. My goal is to avoid any injury and get myself down to a 24-minute 5K. If it works, then I'll follow the cross-training program in Ultra Endurance II and sign up for a longer Triathlon.

18) I have done none of the strength-building exercises.

19) If I sign up for a Triathlon, then I will be following his "Swim effortlessly" chapter to the T and will report back with the results.

20) I'm starting softball next week and will be working on my swing this weekend based on the chapter "Architecture of Babe Ruth".

21) Holding Your Breath I don't care about.

22) The Living Forever chapter is short but sweet. I try to donate blood bimonthly to reduce my iron load. I've been reading for years now that not being able to shed iron like women can with menstruation is the likely cause of why women outlive men by so much. Regardless of the effects, I feel good donating to a worthy cause.

I also downloaded for free the Protein-Cycling Diet book and tried it for the first time yesterday. I basically fasted from protein for 24 hours, and it was ridiculously simple to do. The author, Dr. Ron Mignery, makes some compelling arguments for inducing autophagy at least once a week and backs it up with a plethora of primary sources. I never would've heard about this if I hadn't pick up Ferriss's book.

When you criticize something, you need to have attempted it first. Keyser, it's obviously good to be skeptical of the book, but it doesn't really sound like you tried out the chapters in the book at all, hence your diatribe against 4HB is baseless at best, and destructive at worst. I've improved myself physically in the last year primarily because of this book.

For those out there on the fence, buy the book, and give one of the chapters a try. Post any questions and/or feedback, and I'll try to respond right away.

Post: #41

I hold a dim view of doctors. They're supposed to be smart, but who would seriously say that becoming a doctor is a smart decision?

You have to go to college for like a hundred years, then you work shitty hours in a fucking hospital all day and night surrounded by people shitting on themselves. The pay isn't even that great when you take all that into account.

Thanks but no thanks, I'd rather not make a habit of having to tell people their grandma's not gona make it three times a week.

{Edited for grammar}

Post: #42

(04-27-2012 08:25 AM)Walnuts Wrote:  I hold a dim view of doctors. They're supposed to be smart, but who would seriously say that becoming a doctor is a smart decision?

You have to go to college for like a hundred years, then you work shitty hours in a fucking hospital all day and night surrounded by people shitting on themselves. The pay isn't even that great when you take all that into account.

Thanks but no thanks, I'd rather not make a habit of having to tell people their grandma's not gona make it three times a week.

{Edited for grammar}

There is a HUGE difference between the average medical school graduate who gets stuck doing family medicine and ones who get their pick of residencies and have other skills. A couple of my smartest friends, who came from well off families chose to become doctors because they really like the real world application of science and because they are multilingual and do some pretty cool mission work for at least a few weeks a year, even though it is true the training period is intense no matter what specialty you do.

Anyhow, if there are people who truly believe that by reading a few blogs that happen to be written by people with a financial stake in nutrition products, and then doing some google research and cherry picking bits and pieces of second rate non randomized studies, that they understand how something effects the body better than an MD, then have at it and enjoy the consequences. Evolution has a way of eliminating such imprudence.

Post: #43

Haha
Just to clarify; I never said I have more medical knowledge than a doctor. I hope that's not what was inferred from my post. I just disagree with the choice to become a doctor.

Post: #44

(04-27-2012 08:54 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:  Anyhow, if there are people who truly believe that by reading a few blogs that happen to be written by people with a financial stake in nutrition products, and then doing some google research and cherry picking bits and pieces of second rate non randomized studies, that they understand how something effects the body better than an MD, then have at it and enjoy the consequences.

You seem to have a real hard on for this Stanford MD guy who posted a review don't you? Many of the comments on here have been guys who are relating their own personal experience, not information gathered from randon online blogs. Yet, you discount their experiences and choose to believe the comments of an anonymous reviewer who may or not be a Stanford MD any may have some other agenda.

But, you are right about one thing, trying to gather information from so called "expert blogs" online is not a good idea. After all, as a guy who is trying to sell "Success in Real Estate" DVDs online without having made a single penny in real estate, you should know all about such things.

Quote:Evolution has a way of eliminating such imprudence.

Speak for yourself.

Post: #45

(04-27-2012 01:49 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

(04-27-2012 08:54 AM)Keyser Söze Wrote:  Anyhow, if there are people who truly believe that by reading a few blogs that happen to be written by people with a financial stake in nutrition products, and then doing some google research and cherry picking bits and pieces of second rate non randomized studies, that they understand how something effects the body better than an MD, then have at it and enjoy the consequences.

You seem to have a real hard on for this Stanford MD guy who posted a review don't you? Many of the comments on here have been guys who are relating their own personal experience, not information gathered from randon online blogs. Yet, you discount their experiences and choose to believe the comments of an anonymous reviewer who may or not be a Stanford MD any may have some other agenda.

But, you are right about one thing, trying to gather information from so called "expert blogs" online is not a good idea. After all, as a guy who is trying to sell "Success in Real Estate" DVDs online without having made a single penny in real estate, you should know all about such things.

Quote:Evolution has a way of eliminating such imprudence.

Speak for yourself.

Like I said, I strongly encourage you to follow whatever routine you happen to believe best. People whose opinions are easily swayed by unverified information are crucial to the profit base of any business, including my own in the future.

Post: #46

(04-26-2012 08:04 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Let me tell you why that quoted review is stupid.

I will make a bet with anyone here.

Give me one of your fat fuck American friends.

Put him on the Four Hour Body. Make him take "bullshit" supplements and follow a "bullshit" diet.

I guarantee he will lose 20 pounds of fat within two months.

None of you guys hating on the diet would take that bet.

Any book - Zone, Paleo, South Beach, 4 Hour Body - that gets people eating healthier and into the gym is a step in the right direction.

Stop hating.

Of course they would lose weight. They would be eating a lot less calories following 4 hour body than their normal diet.

Nothing groundbreaking at all, really.

What the OP and the MD reviewer are commenting on is this notion that there is some kind of weird secret behind the 4 hour body. There's not. You eat less calories you lose weight/body fat. Everything else is rubbish.

I've been immersed in the fitness/bodybuilding/health culture for 10 years now. I've tried every conceivable diet and training regimen known to mankind. Nothing beats a basic diet based around whole foods and a training regimen suited to your physique goals.

People are always looking for a shortcut to hard work. It's the same thing with "game". Everyone is looking for angle or gimmick. When in reality it comes down to basic shit like having confidence, taking care of oneself (physically, mentally, financially), and going out there and putting in your bid. All these things are simple and basic, but hard for guys to do because it takes work.

Post: #47

(04-27-2012 08:25 AM)Walnuts Wrote:  I hold a dim view of doctors. They're supposed to be smart, but who would seriously say that becoming a doctor is a smart decision?

You have to go to college for like a hundred years, then you work shitty hours in a fucking hospital all day and night surrounded by people shitting on themselves. The pay isn't even that great when you take all that into account.

Thanks but no thanks, I'd rather not make a habit of having to tell people their grandma's not gona make it three times a week.

{Edited for grammar}

Are you talking about in the UK? Cos it's a shyt profession in the UK. However, in US, you can make coin from that. I heard that in Florida (not sure if it's still true) but you can practice plastic surgery by just having a medical degree and it doesn't matter what position in the class you graduated.

Plastic surgeons make obscene P's. At certain levels, you can delegate the grunt work to noobs and just show up for PR purposes.

Post: #48

I was talking about the uk since I live here.
Maybe stateside its better due to being all privatised. But still, who wants to stay in school for that long? And then be dealing with sick people day in, day out for your whole career.

Post: #49

(04-26-2012 04:47 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  MDs don't learn nutrition in medical school.

Doctors are the last people to talk about diet, exercise, and steroids with.

The problem with nutrition is that there are many theories floating around on how to diet best and in the end it no weight loss diet is really better than the other.

It all boils down to reducing calories intake and chosing foods that are satiating so you don't need to snack between meals.

Avoid extreme diets such as Atkinson's diet and use your head.

Most slim people eat completely normal stuff , no one in France or Russia, Ukraine gives a fuck about low carb, slow carb, paleo, Atkinson yada yada.

They eat what they want to eat....sweats, fatty chease, red wine etc.... always eating normal quantities though. That's why they are thin. Not because they are doing the latest diet based on Nasa science which comprises some super expensive supplements you can directly order from the book and rare organic herbs and vegetables harvested at full moon or whatever...

Even if some diets make sense, they are usually too one sided and after a while you go crazy and pig out...

Post: #50

double post