Post: #26

The good thing to be in deep shit (health, money, some dangerous situation) is that it's a test for the solidity of your relationships with friends and family.

Life is full of incertitudes.

You don't really know how this friend or that friend is going to act in your lowest moment. Even with family. It's easy to find excuses and let someone sinks.

Also as a man it can be difficult to ask for help because of your pride (it depends of the circumstance).

Quote:Conan's Father: The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle, Conan. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts.

Post: #27

(03-07-2017 08:32 PM)armenia4ever Wrote:  Really depends on the wife. Now if a girl is merely a plate or a casual girlfriend, I wouldn't expect much. Telling them about your problems will usually just dry up their panties.

However, exceptions exist and depend on the girl and/or situation.

fair point, but even if they pull you out of your hole, and provide value to you someway, ultimately they will lose respect for you. that is really the key. they may still love you, but you have sewn the seed of the end of that love by showing your weakness.

Post: #28

I think women can support you partly in an unconditional sense. By offering support for the small things that can make your life easier. But I do agree with the original statement, this is probably more difficult for the men who had positive relationships with their mothers and female relatives while growing up.

Post: #29

Agree completely.. Forget women.. even men today walk away..

Only exception is someone who had been through dark times and have achieved higher spiritual space.. Life Experience and Wisdom.

Had a few older men & rare spiritual women (not related) who helped me.. But they were very very spiritual.

Post: #30

I learned this lesson really hard. I had to move out after my girlfriend cheated on me. I didn't want anything, I just texted my female friend, who I thought was close to me, for advice because she had to move out of her boyfriend's house in a similar situation. She straight up ghosted me. This bitch texts me back a month later asking me if I've seen any good memes lately.

Post: #31

(03-08-2017 01:16 AM)kazz Wrote:  If the world goes to shit, men will be the ones standing on the front lines, though most clueless western women may like to think they will be their too wielding a samurai sword like on The Walking Dead. Fact is they will be the ones who do nurture and take care of the sick.

If the world goes to shit? Check out hurricane Harvey pictures.

After the hurricane, I see these women and pudgy men posting pictures of themselves fucking volunteering. It is revolting.

Post: #32

Yep. This has happened to me a lot of times before I finally learnt this lesson.

Now I'm realising that women don't even know how to handle you when you're in a bad mood about something, even if it's something small.

For example, I was with a friend who was being sent some money via moneygram for work that he did. They fucked it up and he didn't recieve the money. He was pissed off and annoyed. He was talking about his own brother got his name wrong and that's why he couldn't recieve the payment.

I just stayed silent and listened to him. I could tell he was angry and acting a little irrationally so I just let him cool down for a couple minutes.

A woman would never do that. They would get pissed off that you're pissed off and start yelling at you or criticising you and make the situation worse.

Then you can easily lose your temper and end up fighting with them. That's the worst thing to do, start picking a fight with a man who's already annoyed and then raising his stress and anger levels to the point where he could lose his temper.

They actually lack empathy and don't know how to deal with a pissed off man. They take his anger at something else personally and make the situation about them.

The correct thing to do is to just let him be pissed off for a couple minutes and move on!

Post: #33

(03-07-2017 08:32 PM)armenia4ever Wrote:  When I have real serious shit that's happening - I turn to my dad. I trust his knowledge and wisdom to tell me like it is.

This resonates hard with me..

A few years ago, when I found out my (now ex) wife was getting dicked on the side, I went to talk to my parents about what my next move should be.

I was afraid I was going to get destroyed if we went to court, being male and figuring the 'pussy pass' was going to be in effect when the court day came (infidelity doesn't hold the weight that it used to. The rules in my state were changed in 2010). I was scared that I would be regulated to an EOW dad, simply based on the fact that I WAS a dad.

Gif of how I felt when I went over to my parents..


While my father's parents were married until my grandfather passed away, my mother's parents were divorced.

During the beginning of my visit, my father spoke mostly of making sure that I cemented myself in the children's lives, whatever the final outcome was going to be. And then he let my mother talk.

My mother went on about the how and the why, meaning what 'drove' my ex to screw around.. maybe it was something I did or didn't do. Not in the 'I pushed her away' sense, and not that my mother was blaming me per say, but that some of my behavior could have pushed the ex to seek out other avenues (aka new dick). Maybe we (the ex and I) should seek out marriage counseling, to find out what the issues were. Maybe things could go back to the way they were, with enough counseling. My mother even offered to pay for any visits if necessary.

With that, my mother headed out to do some grocery shopping, gave my father a kiss goodbye (as always), then gave me a hug and told me she loved me.

Shortly after my mother pulled out of the driveway, my father and I were sitting watching a baseball game, and I asked him what he thought I should do..

Dad: (with a bit of inflection in his voice): "You really want to know what I think ?"

I knew the real was coming, and it was coming hard. And I knew it was going to be what I needed to hear.

So I braced myself..

Me: "Yeah."

Dad: "I think therapy would be a waste of time."
Me: "Why do you say that ?"
Dad: "Lemme ask you this.. if, after all the therapy, this 'works out', and you guys decide to stay married.. are you going to be able to trust her again ?"
Me: "I don't know. Probably not."
Dad: "Do you think you should get divorced ?"
Me: (long pause): "Yeah"
Dad: "There's your answer."
Me: "What about the stuff Mom was talking about ? You think that's a viable option ?"

For the next hour, we talked about a few other family members and their divorce situations (things he swore me to secrecy about), things I needed to do from that point (including "Whatever you do, don't you dare move out of that house !!"), and to not tell anyone, not even him, what my plan of attack was ("You tell your attorney what you want to do, when you want to do it.").
On a side note, knowing what I know now about certain relatives regarding the above, a lot more things make sense with their respective situations.

When we were done talking about it for the most part, I asked him why he didn't bring all this up in front of my mother.

Dad: "I know your mother means well, and she doesn't want to see the same kind of thing happen with the kids as she had to deal with, but I think you're doing the right thing."

The bold was especially powerful.

The climate of the times then, in TV and the movies, was a barrage of women screwing around on their men, and their men taking them back. Men succumbing to the 'peer pressure' that they were the ones that must have done something wrong to push her away, and taking her back is some sort of atonement for doing it..

When I left my parents that afternoon, I was in a completely different state of mind. A far cry from the gif above..


In the end, I kept the house, I'm Custodial Parent, and the ex pays ME child support.

Truth be told, I don't know if I would have had the strength to fight the way I did without that conversation my father and I had. The takeaway from that conversation was that I knew I had him in my corner, not because of what he wanted, or what my mother wanted, or even what my ex wanted.

He was in my corner because my decision to divorce was what I wanted.

Sure, in a perfect world, he would have liked to have seen the ex and I stay married.

But he was a realist, and was that way with me.

And I can never thank him enough for that.

Post: #34

^ Bro that was deep stuff. Thanks for putting it out there.

+1 from me.

Post: #35

(03-07-2017 05:32 PM)nmmoooreland20 Wrote:  Disagree with he assertion of this thread and surprised by the consensus comments.

I've seem plenty of circumstances of wives being there for their husbands in times of need. Spend some time in the ICU.

Thank you for this post! Reading through all the preceding ones, I was wondering whether we live on the same planet: so black and white (except without white). My wife and I went through low periods due to things that happened to me, and the relationship only grew stronger. It may have helped that she was born privileged and then met hardship in her own life, just a couple of years before we met. As to male friends, half of them showed their true colors when I had those difficulties. I learned to appreciate the other half, not because I turned to them for help which they provided--I didn't--but because at least they did not suddenly forget I existed. I think that when you are down you cannot really turn to anyone, the question is whether there will be anybody there to help without being asked.

Having said all that, I am not surprised that your effort to question the "consensus" here was poo-pooed by subsequent posters (although I have not read each and every subsequent comment, so apologies if I missed an endorsement).

If I recall correctly (but right now I can't find anything about it), there is a story about William C Durant, who made GM into the largest automobile company in the world (at the time). At one executive meeting he made a suggestion that was enthusiastically endorsed by all participants. He then commented that he did not like the fact there was no dissenting opinion at all, tabled the motion and asked the group to reflect on it before making a final decision. The next time, the idea was turned down. The issue is with groupthink. Groupthink and consensus are closely related, of course.

Post: #36

I think men far too often pass the buck on this one. In my own experience, women will put up with pretty much any hardship that comes your way, no matter how low it drags her with you.

But here's the thing. The moment you start to feel like a loser instead of like a guy who's momentarily losing, you send out those vibes that absolutely disgust them, and I don't think their reaction is something they're conscious of. It's too primal for that. But women want winners.

And if you start showing signs of self pity and talking and acting like a victim, that's not something they can stomach. First, they'll quickly make their disapproval known in some way or another, whether they're your chick or your mom, but you can actually think of this as a woman's form of tough love - she's trying to encourage and motivate you to man up. This makes sense if you consider the traditional role of a woman.

And if you don't recover, internally, that is, yes they'll start to distance themselves and eventually leave. Since women biologically seek out men for security and protection, why would you be surprised if you find yourself alone after hardship makes your entire frame fall apart?

Of course, there are some very cold ones out there who are ruthless in their mating strategies, as we all know, but they're generally the exception to the rule and should be screened out from the beginning anyhow. In most cases, the problem wasn't that you struggled, though; it was that you let whatever it is completely defeat you.

Also, keep in mind that when you see a woman abandon your destitute buddy, you have no real idea of the hell they're living at home. Just because he puts on a courageous face for you doesn't mean he isn't falling apart when he's alone with her.

As for when shit really hits the fan for a guy who has no possible way to get back on his feet, such as with disability or illness, I think it's a stretch to say woman don't carry their weight. I'd wager there are far more women out there than men changing diapers, wiping asses, and dressing the hideous wounds of adult people they love, even if they do still have to give them some of that disgusted tough love to keep them on their feet sometimes.

Women are biologically disposed to care for the invalid and destitute. If you want them to remain sexually attracted to you and see you as a provider, however, yeah, you'll have to maintain your frame to a certain equilibrium no matter how bad it gets.

Think back on that woman who acted cold when you were against the fence. Did you somewhat deserve it? Were you acting like a victim and hoping for pity?

Like it or not, this is not manly and will always subconsciously destroy her attraction and respect for you, something she rarely even realizes herself. All she knows is that suddenly she's riding rock bottom with a man she doesn't feel anything for anymore, and that hardly seems worth her sacrifice - that's what she tells herself because that's how it FEELS.

If you maintain the attraction by maintaining your self confidence, hope, and self respect - on the other hand - a lot of women will pretty much ride out anything with you. Hell, just look at all the natural players in the world whose women carry their deadbeat asses through life when they don't have a job or car or any of the other basic markers of success...because their frame is still intact.

Some men I know from hard backgrounds learned this lesson so well at a young age they go through life with multiple broads buying them shit and paying their bills on a regular basis. The caliber of women who get caught up supporting these kinds of guys range all the way across the spectrum, too.

I've had multiple times where I reached the top very quickly, and I've had times where I lost it all even faster, and come to think of it, the men I associated with were often the ones who changed their behavior. Some men would shun me when I was doing well out of jealousy and because I reminded them of their own inadequacy and then were suddenly their same old selves again when I fell - even going as far as to almost seem to derive some kind of secret satisfaction from seeing the wind get knocked out of my sails. Other men would be a best friend while I was at the top and then suddenly turn a cold shoulder when "fortune" reversed.

I only wish I could assure you it was easy to determine which men in your life will act like this ahead of time, but unfortunately it's not. Obviously some men are solid through and through as well, but you might be surprised at which ones they turn out to be in the end.

The women in my life, on the other hand, have mostly been consistent in their support and attention, only seemingly adjusting these things to the extent of, or lack thereof, my own self-pity. Whether at top or bottom, you can't ever stop playing the game.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #37

^^ This is the correct answer.

Reading this thread made me sad. There are women out there can and will be supportive of you through hard times.

What they will NOT do is be supportive of you if you are playing the victim. Women are disgusted by that and rightly so. You can be struggling and as long as you still have the fight in you a good woman will be there for you.

My mum would support me through absolutely anything and I've had a girlfriend who did the same for me. But I never acted like a victim, even when I had nothing and it was an uphill struggle I had my eye on the prize and never gave up.

If you're expecting sympathy from a woman you don't deserve it, but if you attack your struggles like a man, a good woman will support you through that.