Post: #26

(03-06-2012 12:34 AM)velkrum Wrote:  The easiest way to ensure optimal form on squats should be squatting in your socks (take your shoes off) or barefoot.

What I personally do is 100 body weight squats a day. The repetition will help you develop the proper movement patterns.

and once again always squat barefoot or in socks ! it is an INSTANT fix to most technique issues.

These statements are false.

Unweighted squats aka bodyweight squats will necessarily have a different movement patter than barbell squats, due to the loading. If you're used to barbell squatting, try squatting an empty bar, and it will feel a little weird.

Plus there are a variety of squat forms, influenced by depth, foot stance, hand grip, heel height, and bar placement. There may be an optimal form given those dimensions, but without those variables addressed, there is no one form to rule them all. Nor is lifting barefoot and without a belt necessarily optimal.

The idea that 'natural' lifting is superior, without the use of aids like belts or shoes, is unproven dogma. You know what else is not natural? Barbells. And anything else in a gym. Doesn't mean it's not optimal.

Post: #27

basil What exactly is the point of your little rant ?

I'm giving moma advice to help him progress in the right direction when it comes to squatting. to PROVE what im saying is true all you have to do is squat with your shoes on and squat with your shoes off. Make a decision about which option felt better.

and yes squatting with a barbbell is different than squatting with bodyweight but body weight squats can safely teach someone the general idea of how their body should be moving. What is the point of learning to squat with a barbbell if you can't squat properly (without a barbell) ?

also..NONE of my fitness advice is based on theory. It is based off proven techniques I've used on myself and other people for years.

Quote:Do you do your 100bw squats in one set or spread out throughout the day?

@ westerncancer

Spread out.

I use to do to progressions. Aim for 20 squats in one shot..then 30 then 50 etc...

the intensity is not what is important. learning how to comfortably squat due to constant repetition is.

Post: #28

Velkrum - Can I do it in socks in the gym or does it have to be barefoot on the ground?

Post: #29

(03-06-2012 05:50 PM)velkrum Wrote:  I'm giving moma advice to help him progress in the right direction when it comes to squatting. to PROVE what im saying is true all you have to do is squat with your shoes on and squat with your shoes off. Make a decision about which option felt better.

and yes squatting with a barbbell is different than squatting with bodyweight but body weight squats can safely teach someone the general idea of how their body should be moving. What is the point of learning to squat with a barbbell if you can't squat properly (without a barbell) ?

also..NONE of my fitness advice is based on theory. It is based off proven techniques I've used on myself and other people for years.

Quote:Do you do your 100bw squats in one set or spread out throughout the day?

Many people prefer squatting with some elevation to their heels. That requires certain shoes, or putting a plate underneath your heels.

Mark Rippetoe for instance recommends not training the air squat too much if you want to get good at barbell squats, because the movement pattern is different. The air squat is a good calisthenic exercise, but it's not always the best way to train the back squat.

Post: #30

Quote: Many people prefer squatting with some elevation to their heels. That requires certain shoes, or putting a plate underneath your heels.

apparently it is very risky to deadlift with platform heels (stuart mcrobert).

I'm a tall guy (6'3), and I messed up my lower back pretty bad doing 5 reps of 235lbs (i.e. starting strength) several times during the last month...I'm taking 2 weeks off from the gym and going swimming instead just to rehabilitate.

Deadlift is a pretty risky exercises specially at high poundage and it is difficult to maintain good form... I might try it again with less weight i.e. 135lbs with the plates on platform (given my height) but that's it.

the thing is that lower back pain is a serious injury and it can affect the performance of other exercises that involve a barbell i.e. squats, military press, rows, etc.

even squats at a high poundage put tremendous pressure on the lower back...perhaps front squats are less risky.

Post: #31

(03-06-2012 04:11 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 04:25 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  I had lower back problems my whole life and i was always scared to death of dead lifting. i started doing them since last week but very low weight, just 50 pounds. So far so good.

I have fallen arches, which has always caused issues with my back, dead lifting actually helped my back pain

This is true. A lot of times are tweaks are simply the muscle not getting worked in properly. I have bad knees, if I use leg press machines I pay dearly for it as it puts so much pressure on my knee joints. Switching to regular squats, I feel much less pain. In the back of my mind I freak that I will snap shit up since I do have strong legs and never have maxed out but regardless even with like 250 I am fine.

Post: #32

(03-06-2012 04:28 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 12:34 AM)velkrum Wrote:  The easiest way to ensure optimal form on squats should be squatting in your socks (take your shoes off) or barefoot.

What I personally do is 100 body weight squats a day. The repetition will help you develop the proper movement patterns.

and once again always squat barefoot or in socks ! it is an INSTANT fix to most technique issues.

These statements are false.

Unweighted squats aka bodyweight squats will necessarily have a different movement patter than barbell squats, due to the loading. If you're used to barbell squatting, try squatting an empty bar, and it will feel a little weird.

Plus there are a variety of squat forms, influenced by depth, foot stance, hand grip, heel height, and bar placement. There may be an optimal form given those dimensions, but without those variables addressed, there is no one form to rule them all. Nor is lifting barefoot and without a belt necessarily optimal.

The idea that 'natural' lifting is superior, without the use of aids like belts or shoes, is unproven dogma. You know what else is not natural? Barbells. And anything else in a gym. Doesn't mean it's not optimal.

Wondering if you could elaborate on the different squat techniques. Any any techniques that may be a bit better for the knees.

I see kats in the gym whom position the barbell infront of them versus the back. They seem to have a more fluid movement when they do their reps.

Post: #33

kosko - please elaborate on these hip thrust exercises you have been speaking about. How to do them, etc.

Post: #34

best way to protect your knees while squatting is to consciously push them out when you descend and to squat ass to grass.

Post: #35

Recently I have been trying to boost my deadlift weight. I think part of it has been the risk of injury to the back. Having read this thread, I might stop at 315 - not there yet. But I can across this article for those who are concerned about technique.

http://stronglifts.com/13-deadlift-mista...ue-stupid/

Proper technique on Deadlifts is crucial to lift big weights, gain muscle and avoid injuries. Yet there are guys who have been Deadlifting for 5 years and who are still making dumb mistakes, waiting for an injury to happen. Worse, these guys pass on bad Deadlift advice to new lifters who don't know the difference.

Here are 13 Deadlift mistakes, including many I made when I began Deadlifting a decade ago, that you better avoid unless you want to look really stupid.


1. Doing Deadlifts Top-Down. By walking the weight back out of the Rack, and doing each rep top-down as it was a Squat or Bench Press. Why do you think it's called a DEADlift? Because you're supposed to start from the floor.


2. Not Hitting The Floor on Each Rep. By doing Deadlifts from the safety pins of your Power Rack (these are Rack Pulls) or by not touching the floor on each rep (Romanian Deadlift-style). Either way, this mistake is like not hitting parallel on Squats or not touching your chest on the Bench Press: you're doing partials.

Some Deadlift bouncing the weight up, others let it rest for a second, but the bar should always touch the floor between reps. Again, it's called DEADlifts.


3. Wearing Gloves. Gloves add inches to the bar which kills your grip strength. Worse, they don't prevent callus formation anyway. What will: Deadlifting with a correct grip - bar NOT in the middle of your hand, but close to your fingers - and using chalk (if your gym doesn't allow it, get an eco ball).


4. Rolling Your Shoulders. Guaranteed way to wreck your shoulders. Never roll them at the top of your Deadlifts. Just pull the weight from the floor, lock your hips & knees, and keep your shoulders back & down. If you want bigger traps, increase your Deadlift and eat more so you actually gain weight.


5. Standing Too Wide. Deadlifts are NOT Squats. If your stance is too wide, your legs will get in the way of your arms on each rep. You could Deadlift with a wider grip, but then you'll have to pull the bar higher which makes the same weight more challenging. Simply narrow your stance to give your arms room.


6. Starting With Your Hips Too Low. You'll keep hitting your shins and the bar will end up too much in front of your body (which is more stressful on your lower back and less effective for strength). Again, Deadlifts are NOT Squats - start with your hips higher so your shoulder-blades are directly over the bar.


7. Hitting Your Knees. If you break your knees too early on the way down, you will hit them (which obviously hurts) and the bar will end up too far in front of your body for your next rep (see #6). Lower the weight by pushing your hips back first and only bend your legs once the bar reaches knee level.


8. Curling The Weight. Starting with flexed elbows and then straightening them right before you pull is useless - there's no way you're ever going to curl what you can Deadlift unless your work weight is too light. Keep your elbows locked by squeezing your triceps so you don't end up ripping your biceps tendon.


9. Deadlifting In Running Shoes. Any shoe with air or gel filling doesn't work for Deadlifts because its sole is compressible - it's unstable, causes power loss, and messes with your technique. Get shoes with hard soles like Chuck Taylor's or Deadlift barefoot like I do (closer to the ground = more weight).


10. Looking Up. Usually to check your Deadlift technique in the front mirror. Problems: your hips will end up too low (see #6), you can twist your neck, and the mirror only gives info about the front plane. Stop looking in the mirror, keep your head inline with your torso and check your technique by taping yourself.


11. Pulling Instead of Pushing. Deadlifts are a pull, but since you have to use your hip muscles it's better to think of them as a push. So instead of pulling all the weight with your back, push through your heels, force your hips forward once the bar reaches knee level, and squeeze your glutes at the top.


12. Hyperextending Your Back. Repeatedly leaning back at the top is as bad as Deadlifting with a round lower back - you will get a hernia. And unless you're competing and want to make sure that the judges see you locked the weights, there's no need to lean back. Just stand tall with locked hips and knees, done.


13. Stiff-legging The Weight. Starting with your hips sky-high, the opposite of mistake #6. This, a Stiff-legged Deadlift, is more stressful on your lower back and less effective for strength because you're not using your legs. Deadlift with your hips lower so your shoulder-blades end up over the bar.

Finally, do not waste your energy worrying about what other guys in your gym are doing. If they ask you for advice, give it. If not, mind your own business and lead by example by making sure that you're Deadlifting with proper technique.

Post: #36

Thanks for posting that. It's a good reminder to me to check my form.

Post: #37

God I need to proof read better.

But glad it was helpful.

Post: #38

I recently had a couple of sessions with a powerlifting coach to improve my form. Got some useful extra tips on my deadlifts:

- Consciously use the muscles in your backside (no homo) to help with the pull. This gives you extra power and stability. Definitely noticed a difference doing this. Try it out.
- Don't look straight down. It's not a squat. Keep your neck in a neutral position. Looking ahead works.
- Take a deep breath before the pull AND at lockout before descending.
- Use chalk and limit the alternating grip to heavy sets only. Do lighter sets with the overhand grip.

Post: #39

Use hook grips, it's safer for your biceps, activates lats on both sides equally (powerlifters with mixed grips have a slightly twisted spine in X-rays / MRI scans), has better ROM and has minimal callouses (mostly around the thumbs). Takes about 4-6 weeks to adapt then you're good for life.

Post: #40

(10-29-2013 10:27 PM)Doctore Wrote:  Use hook grips, it's safer for your biceps, activates lats on both sides equally (powerlifters with mixed grips have a slightly twisted spine in X-rays / MRI scans), has better ROM and has minimal callouses (mostly around the thumbs). Takes about 4-6 weeks to adapt then you're good for life.

Seen a video on them and I'm really thinking about them. I seen them work well for front squats also since I have poor ROM in my wrists.

The twisted spin stuff sounds fucked up but you do feel it. When you bust out a heavy set with a mixed grip so much is happening and at the end one side is always a but more worked/sore then the other.

I love DLs now, nothing else in the gym gives me a raging boner aside from the hot Asian and blonde chics that roll through.

Post: #41

I like deadlifts but tend to get burned out by the 4th-5th rep of a heavy set. I am often literally gasping for breath with legs feeling like jelly at the setup. Squats on the same day don't help. Maybe I just need to stop being a pussy lol.

Post: #42

Just alternate your mixed grip - grip and rip, set back down, change hands, repeat. I'm not a fan of the hook grip for extended lifting sessions.

Most of the time I stick to double overhand (straight up beast mode) but if I'm doing a lot of oly lifts and deadlifts on the same day it can get too strenuous for the forearms.

Straps are actually a good investment and defensible if you lift enough to merit their use. Make sure to lift with and without straps, but it is smart to start lifting with straps, then do a death set or two of deadlifts without them. Plenty of lifters will only do two or three sets of deadlifts then pussy out of more sets because they couldn't heave the weight off the ground - problem is usually a grip that's been exhausted. My guess is that the CNS does not fire all the way if it believes that you can't grab what you're trying to heave off the ground.

Post: #43

Deadlifts single-handedly healed my lower back pain (used to suffer from sciatica), as well as wrist pain from boxing. Should be part of every serious lifter's workout regime.

Post: #44

I'm 6ft tall and 180lbs. I used to dead lift about 205 lbs before I took a break. Currently i'm at 185, I can probably go a lot heavier but I want to keep the steady routine I have going.

My bench is a paltry 105. I want to get that up higher.

Deadlifts though are my favorite exercise. I feel the burn all over. I always do deadlifts on my last gym day and that extends some "feel" good feelings into my weekend. They're brutal as hell, but I love them.

I prefer to deadlift using the hexagon bar for deadlifting. It's easier on my arms and legs.

Post: #45

(10-30-2013 02:34 AM)Hades Wrote:  Just alternate your mixed grip - grip and rip, set back down, change hands, repeat. I'm not a fan of the hook grip for extended lifting sessions.

Most of the time I stick to double overhand (straight up beast mode) but if I'm doing a lot of oly lifts and deadlifts on the same day it can get too strenuous for the forearms.

Straps are actually a good investment and defensible if you lift enough to merit their use. Make sure to lift with and without straps, but it is smart to start lifting with straps, then do a death set or two of deadlifts without them. Plenty of lifters will only do two or three sets of deadlifts then pussy out of more sets because they couldn't heave the weight off the ground - problem is usually a grip that's been exhausted. My guess is that the CNS does not fire all the way if it believes that you can't grab what you're trying to heave off the ground.

I DL over 500. consistently do reps in the 430-480 range. no straps.

you don't need them. get stronger!

take two 25 Kg lbs kettlebells and try to run/jog/walk 800 meters with them, only moving while you're able carry them at full extension.

that'll do it!

Post: #46

(10-30-2013 01:10 PM)frenchie Wrote:  I'm 6ft tall and 180lbs. I used to dead lift about 205 lbs before I took a break. Currently i'm at 185, I can probably go a lot heavier but I want to keep the steady routine I have going.

My bench is a paltry 105. I want to get that up higher.

Deadlifts though are my favorite exercise. I feel the burn all over. I always do deadlifts on my last gym day and that extends some "feel" good feelings into my weekend. They're brutal as hell, but I love them.

I prefer to deadlift using the hexagon bar for deadlifting. It's easier on my arms and legs.

I've got really long arms and the Hex Bar feels weird when I use it. I use it mostly for explosive type movements and try to focus on areas like my traps and legs.

Post: #47

(10-30-2013 02:38 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

(10-30-2013 02:34 AM)Hades Wrote:  Just alternate your mixed grip - grip and rip, set back down, change hands, repeat. I'm not a fan of the hook grip for extended lifting sessions.

Most of the time I stick to double overhand (straight up beast mode) but if I'm doing a lot of oly lifts and deadlifts on the same day it can get too strenuous for the forearms.

Straps are actually a good investment and defensible if you lift enough to merit their use. Make sure to lift with and without straps, but it is smart to start lifting with straps, then do a death set or two of deadlifts without them. Plenty of lifters will only do two or three sets of deadlifts then pussy out of more sets because they couldn't heave the weight off the ground - problem is usually a grip that's been exhausted. My guess is that the CNS does not fire all the way if it believes that you can't grab what you're trying to heave off the ground.

I DL over 500. consistently do reps in the 430-480 range. no straps.

you don't need them. get stronger!

take two 25 Kg lbs kettlebells and try to run/jog/walk 800 meters with them, only moving while you're able carry them at full extension.

that'll do it!

Yeah I turned 17 a few weeks ago and am training on 340lbs, but have never used straps. Its better to have great grip strength and just train that as well then use them. Another good exercise to increase grip strength is towel chin-ups. Just put a barbell on top of the squat rack and do them on there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UytoYzngN2Q

Post: #48

Just a reminder it's not a "dead lift" if you don't reset on every rep and set the loaded bar back on the ground for a second, hence lifting dead weight. I used to "touch and go" on every rep, in other words I'd do a true dead lift on the first rep and then tap the weights on the floor and bounce right up on my next subsequent reps. "Touch and go" makes it that much easier and will allow a guy to lift a lot more weight, but while it's easier, it's less challenging and thus less effective for building muscle. My 5 rep max on "touch and go" was 285, but now that I've since changed to doing true "dead lifts" my max went to 265 on a set of 3 reps.

Post: #49

(10-30-2013 02:38 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  I DL over 500. consistently do reps in the 430-480 range. no straps.

Wow. Badass

Post: #50

(10-30-2013 03:38 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

(10-30-2013 02:38 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  I DL over 500. consistently do reps in the 430-480 range. no straps.

Wow. Badass

Eh.

I've been doing it for a while. and i'm a big dude.

it should be higher.

but thanks