Post: #1

As many of you know, and was previously mentioned in an earlier thread here, Sweden has adopted a questionable stance on foreign policy, implementing a "feminist" foreign policy. While this has been lauded by left wingers as progressive and good for human rights, it already has encountered grave problems which threaten Sweden's import and exports and their diplomatic ties with the Middle East.

Link

Quote:Sweden’s new “feminist” foreign policy is winning the country praise for standing up for human rights. It could also end up costing exporters in the largest Nordic economy billions of kronor in lost sales.

After pledging to make women’s rights the corner-stone of its foreign policy, the new Social Democrat-led government now finds itself in a crisis with Saudi Arabia and the Arab League after canceling a decade-old military cooperation agreement.
While the government is heralded by human and women’s rights activists, and perhaps scoring points at home in the world’s most feminist nation, Swedish businesses are bracing for a downturn. Top executives at Atlas Copco AB, SKF AB, Ericsson AB and Volvo AB have said that scrapping the deal could have “large consequences” for Swedish industry and for the country’s reputation.

...

The new government, which is trying to gain a seat on the United Nations’ Security Council for 2017-2018, has managed to stir up controversy during its short six months in power. Israel in October also recalled its ambassador after the government in its first foreign policy move decided to recognize Palestine as a state.

Their logic here is scary. It shows absolutely no regard for world trade and order. They do this to score brownie points at home and try to win favor with the Security Council, which they are attempting to join in 2017/18. They have absolutely no regard for even their own companies, which are the lifeblood of the Swedish nation. If nations follow Arabia's lead and boycott this open sedition of domestic policy, Sweden will be shit out of luck internationally.

It's great to score brownie points, but when it puts your nation at risk of a great economic downturn then is it really worth it? Interfering with other nations' domestic policy is never a good idea, especially when dealing with Middle Eastern nations. The implications of this continued deadlock regarding "women's rights" will be deadly to the Swedish economy, especially if other nations decide to join Saudi Arabia. "Feminist" foreign policy is already faltering.

Post: #2

Frankly the only people this is likely to hurt are the citizens of Sweden who voted for this bullshit to begin with. I never see a reason to stop someone cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Post: #3

Most logical people, and a fair proportion of liberals too, realise that Capitalism, however imperfect, is the best we've got.
Feminism is still dealing with the childlike assertion that we'll do just fine without Capitalism, thank you very much.
If they can kill Capitalism and be seen to be saving the world too, even better.
Surely though, the corporate might of Sweden's big businesses will win out here.
Money talks and (feminist) bullshit walks.

Post: #4

Sweden likes to dig holes for itself.

Post: #5

Just when you think the U.S. is bad, you look at the stuff going on in Europe and you shake your head. Still, at least the girls are slimmer.

Post: #6

Let them dig their own grave. Overpriced nation of sissies.

Post: #7

Whatever the reason, it's good the Swedes are cutting off weapons flow to those corrupt despots, the Al Sauds. They support the base (al qaeda) of the theology of Islamic extremism, teach the worst kind of things in their schools, and have been funding violent Islamic extremists, including Al Qaeda, ISIS, and Boko Haram.

It's not a coincidence that 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudis. 28 pages of the U.S. 9/11 Investigative Commission Report describing Saudi support for the hijackers is still classified. http://28pages.org/

The Saudis, with the other Gulf Arabs, are the source of the current problems in Islam.

Politics, like life, is about choices. Give me a choice between the Swedish system and the Saudi system, I'll take the Swedish system. Fuck the Saudis.

Post: #8

In a weird way I support this. It's not like they are cancelling deals with Saudi over "Cat-calling street harassment" or a lack of "fat-acceptance" in Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia has legitimate issues as a society for women and others.

Taking a stand against that would actually be an honorable thing. The only reason it isn't honorable in this case is because they probably aren't taking a personal hit themselves, they are throwing their businesses under the bus. It's easy to take a stand with someone else's money. Also, tryna govern how another country handles its business seems somewhat tyrannical an invasive. Save for human rights violations I think it's dangerous to try and tell other countries what to do.

Post: #9

I bet a bunch of their women will run off and join ISIS now that they've adopted a feminist foreign policy.

Post: #10

(03-16-2015 10:10 AM)Sir Vigorous Wrote:  In a weird way I support this. It's not like they are cancelling deals with Saudi over "Cat-calling street harassment" or a lack of "fat-acceptance" in Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia has legitimate issues as a society for women and others.

Taking a stand against that would actually be an honorable thing. The only reason it isn't honorable in this case is because they probably aren't taking a personal hit themselves, they are throwing their businesses under the bus. It's easy to take a stand with someone else's money. Also, tryna govern how another country handles its business seems somewhat tyrannical an invasive. Save for human rights violations I think it's dangerous to try and tell other countries what to do.

Post: #11

I actually support this, but I don't want to give credit when it was done in the name of feminism. The average American - conservative and liberal alike - could just as quickly point out the hypocrisy in our dealings with Saudi Arabia. But for nations of significance on the world stage (Sweden has the GDP of Pennsylvania) taking a moral stand and cutting ties would hurt more people both home and abroad than it would help.

World reliance on Middle Eastern oil and defense contracts is a form of global welfare. If you think the instability and poverty in the region are bad now, just imagine the consequences of cutting their only source of income and revenue. It's fair to criticize the West for using a heavy hand in the Middle East, but with no arable land, no other resources, and no infrastructure capable of competing internationally in information or services, we're the only thing keeping their heads above water.

Post: #12

On a somewhat related note, apparently Netanyahu is accusing 'Scandinavian governments' of spending millions of dollars on a campaign to remove him from power.

Quote:http://www.thelocal.no/20150313/scandina...srael-vote

In an interview with an Israeli radio station, the head of the right-wing Likud party who faces a tough challenge from the centre and left in the upcoming vote, said he believed that Nordic politicians did not want him to remain in office.

"Scandinavian governments have spent millions of dollars on a campaign to remove me from power," he said on the station Kol Israel.

"Western governments, but mostly Scandinavian...They know perfectly well why they prefer Buji and Livni to me," he added, referring to his opponents.

In a separate interview with Rega Radio he was reported to have said that "foreign governments, specifically Scandinavians, are part of a worldwide campaign to topple me", according to a translation posted on Twitter by Israeli blogger and journalist Tal Schneider.

Sweden in particular has had strained relations with Israel in recent months after becoming the first western European country to formally recognize the state of Palestine.

The decision led to Israel temporarily recalling its ambassador from Stockholm and claims that Sweden's Foreign Minister Margot Wallström had been snubbed by Israeli government officials, after she cancelled a planned visit to Jerusalem.

But Netanyahu's comments about Scandinavian governments have been met with strong criticism from some social media users in Israel.

"What the hell has Scandinavia done to Benjamin Netanyahu?", wrote Jerusalem-based journalist Noga Tarnopolsky.

Israeli historian and writer Gershom Gorenberg posted: "last refuge of the fading strongman: accuse outside agitators, foreign governments".

The Local contacted the Swedish foreign ministry on Friday afternoon and was told that Foreign Minister Margot Wallström had yet to comment on the matter. It remains unclear if she plans to respond to the allegations.

The minister recently met with the Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas in Stockholm and this week held talks with with Palestinian Ambassador Hala Husni Fariz Odeh.

"Our relations with Sweden are deep, long lasting and have been strengthened further by the recognition of Palestine and the historic visit by President Mahmoud Abbas [to Sweden]," Odeh told Swedish news agency TT after their discussions.

Israel's election takes place on March 17th and the vote will decide who becomes the next Prime Minister in the divided Middle Eastern country.

Post: #13

I don't understand how there can be such a massive difference in sanity between Sweden and Norway or Finland. They're supposed to be almost the same people!

Post: #14

In reality feminists don't care if a man is being flogged. What they care about is the fact that Saudi Arabia don't allow women to drive or to have any gay prides. Oh, and the lack of any matriarch might also be a sticking point. The fact that 60 percent that go to university in Saudi Arabia are female seems to be forgotten by the feminists.

After this the feminists will have even less influence over the Arab countries. The feminist politician was about to give a speech in Egypt to the Leauge of Arab states but cancelling the contract meant that she wasn't allowed to speak at all.

Post: #15

(03-16-2015 01:57 PM)Cheetah Wrote:  In reality feminists don't care if a man is being flogged. What they care about is the fact that Saudi Arabia don't allow women to drive or to have any gay prides. Oh, and the lack of any matriarch might also be a sticking point. The fact that 60 percent that go to university in Saudi Arabia are female seems to be forgotten by the feminists.

After this the feminists will have even less influence over the Arab countries. The feminist politician was about to give a speech in Egypt to the Leauge of Arab states but cancelling the contract meant that she wasn't allowed to speak at all.

I think you have the timeline wrong. According to this report, the Saudis blocked the Swedish Foreign Minister from speaking to the Arab League first:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worl...an-rights/

As much as I sympathize with people not wanting to be lectured on human rights by a Swedish woman, the Saudis take it to an extreme. If we are talking about diplomacy, blocking a foreign minister from delivering a previously scheduled address is pretty insulting to a country that sells you weapons.

The Saudis put that blogger, Raif Badawi, in prison for 10 years and are going to give him 1000 lashes (50 already delivered) for writing things that John Locke or Thomas Jefferson could have written.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ja...aif-badawi

Again, fuck the Saudis. It would have been a better use of the US military to have invaded them and installed one of the Hashemites as King than invading Iraq.

Post: #16

On one hand I agree with Sp5, not selling weapons to an Islamic extremist country like Saudi Arabia seems common sense to me. At the same time, in our globalised world everything is interconnected and the consequences could be very negative for the Swedish economy. Saudi Arabia is very influential, it's already taking action:

Quote:Egypt is “incredibly dependent on Saudi Arabia” financially, he said. “If Saudi Arabia manages to get Egypt to reduce its wood imports from Sweden, it would be a huge blow,” he said.

I wonder how feminists and lefties pretend to maintain their nanny state with their companies running out of business.

Post: #17

Sigh...

Sweden, your ancestors must be proud.



I think war shapes you right up. Finland fought the Soviets and the Norwegians the Germans in WII. Sweden was appeasing Hitler with gold, iron and financial support. When was the last time you heard of a war involving Sweden?

Post: #18

(03-16-2015 02:26 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 01:57 PM)Cheetah Wrote:  In reality feminists don't care if a man is being flogged. What they care about is the fact that Saudi Arabia don't allow women to drive or to have any gay prides. Oh, and the lack of any matriarch might also be a sticking point. The fact that 60 percent that go to university in Saudi Arabia are female seems to be forgotten by the feminists.

After this the feminists will have even less influence over the Arab countries. The feminist politician was about to give a speech in Egypt to the Leauge of Arab states but cancelling the contract meant that she wasn't allowed to speak at all.

I think you have the timeline wrong. According to this report, the Saudis blocked the Swedish Foreign Minister from speaking to the Arab League first:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worl...an-rights/

As much as I sympathize with people not wanting to be lectured on human rights by a Swedish woman, the Saudis take it to an extreme. If we are talking about diplomacy, blocking a foreign minister from delivering a previously scheduled address is pretty insulting to a country that sells you weapons.

The Saudis put that blogger, Raif Badawi, in prison for 10 years and are going to give him 1000 lashes (50 already delivered) for writing things that John Locke or Thomas Jefferson could have written.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ja...aif-badawi

Again, fuck the Saudis. It would have been a better use of the US military to have invaded them and installed one of the Hashemites as King than invading Iraq.

I read other reports that said that it later emerged that the notification/intention of the cancellation of the agreement had already been made before the speech was about to be delivered. It took a few days until they went official and it made the news.

China has capital punishment for more than 50 crimes, some of them non violent. Israel is said to shoot palestinian fishermen to death and the U.S. is sometimes torturing its prisoners when some executions go wrong. And in California an 18 year old having consensual sex with his/her 17 year old partner could go to jail for I don't know how long. And we haven't even got to the war by IS and in Ukraine. And what does Sweden care about? Womens' right to drive in Saudi Arabia! The part about the guy getting lashed is unfortunately just something that they mention because they understand that no one would take them seriously if they only mentioned womens' rights.

Saudi Arabia might not have free speech and I don't agree with the punishment that the guy received but Sweden is not a country famous for free speech even though corporal/capital punishment isn't used there.

Post: #19

Some business was lost, mot the downfall of Western civilization.

Post: #20

I don't understand the logic of their foreign policy here. They hope to be a member state of the Security Council, yet what they don't realize is that they're shooting themselves in the foot by straining diplomatic relations and hampering economic growth. While they are a "scion of human rights", what they don't realize is that the SC requires economic and military clout also. Human rights may be a part of it, but look at Russia and China's spotty record in Chechnya and Xinjiang. Yet they're still a part of the 5 member states of the Security Council.

Honestly, the security council was meant to be for the global powerhouses who project real influence on the rest of the world. The only thing the Swedish government is projecting is how to strain diplomatic ties over foreign countries' domestic policy. It's not a good look, let the U.N. do that under the guise of global policing.

Remember, I'm not insulting the Swedish people. Just commenting on their extreme leftist political policies.

Post: #21

Draw your own conclusions.
   

Post: #22

There is a lot of irony in the disconnect between sweden standing up to the Saudis and how in every other sphere of their politics they subscribe to lunatic relativism and equivocation.

I think I used irony correctly.

Post: #23

Meh, conflict between two different groups of lunatics. Moving on.

Post: #24

It might be better to ask why the USA and other countries kow-tow to the Saudis. We know why, of course. Oil and the money it brings.

But we give them the money and sell them the rope - to hang us. Aggressive Islamic extremism around the world is paid for by the Saudis. The extremist preachers in places like Germany, Kenya, Uganda, France and the USA are paid for by the Saudis. Saudi money has changed Islam for the worse in a couple of generations - I have seen it in East Africa. The visual cue is women going from western dress to hijabs to niqabs within the last 30 years.

US policy towards the Saudis is the prime example of hypocrisy and institutional corruption. American bleating about "human rights" in Syria, Iran, or Russia sounds pretty empty when Saudi Arabia is worse by measures and we suck up to them.

I say bring them down. The shit's going to hit the fan there eventually and American troops will be in Dhahran some day. If ISIS made a run south to Mecca and knocked over that house of cards, I can't say I'd be sorry. At least they'd get a taste of what they've been paying for in Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria, and Iraq. Bring the boil to a head so it can be drained.

Post: #25

^^^^

Is there anyone cheering the Swedish feminist? No, apart from some of her colleagues telling her 'you go grrrl'.

This forum is everyday writing thread after thread about the decline of western women. What country is the opposite to this? Don't tell me that Saudi arabia hasn't done anything right.