(01-19-2015 06:04 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  I know I've been writing a lot about it already, but I think maidsafecoin could be Bitcoin 2.0, the one that the general public starts to use. Here is why:
Safecoin doesn't waste energy like bitcoin do. Energy is used to store data.
Safecoin transfers are instant.
Safecoin is anonymous, you can't track the coins in the blockchain.
Safecoin doesn't run the risk of a 51% attack.
Safecoin doesn't need a 27GB blockchain to be used.

Advantages with bitcoin:
Bitcoin is more well disturbed (but it wasn't in the beginning)
Bitcoin is already up and running (but they seem to be working hard)

What do you guys think? If anyone is taking a look at it, please tell me your honest opinion.

Surely other guys can chime in because I don't know very much about specifics about many of the altcoins because I remain of the belief that there remains a considerable first mover (and relative size) advantage with bitcoin, and therefore it remains far too early and speculative to project any coin as a potential bitcoin 2.0.


When any coin reaches 1/4 or 1/5 of bitcoin's market cap, then maybe we can contemplate whether we should give them serious considerations in potentially naming them as potential bitcoin 2.0. None of the coins, except Ripple, are in the 1/5 range of bitcoin's market cap, and surely, we should NOT give too much airplay or consideration to Ripple because of its centralized nature and pre-mining and just potential for manipulation (due mostly to the centralization of the control of its supply and its various applications).

I did not read pages 2-80 of this thread, but I don't get bitcoin. It seems to me to be one step past fiat money in the WRONG direction. It exists only as blips on an electronic screen. Call me a Luddite, but I would invest in gold or silver before I would put money into bitcoin.

(01-20-2015 02:16 PM)1818Steve Wrote:  I did not read pages 2-80 of this thread, but I don't get bitcoin. It seems to me to be one step past fiat money in the WRONG direction. It exists only as blips on an electronic screen. Call me a Luddite, but I would invest in gold or silver before I would put money into bitcoin.

Pages 2-80 are pretty much JJG saying he has a feeling that it's going up whilst all the time it's been going down.

(01-20-2015 02:16 PM)1818Steve Wrote:  I did not read pages 2-80 of this thread, but I don't get bitcoin. It seems to me to be one step past fiat money in the WRONG direction. It exists only as blips on an electronic screen. Call me a Luddite, but I would invest in gold or silver before I would put money into bitcoin.

Surely, you have a right to express your opinion about bitcoin; however it sounds as if you are quite admittedly self-imposed ignorant about the topic of bitcoin, especially if you chosen NOT to read more than two pages of this thread. Additionally, you have not cited other sources for your knowledge.

In case you happen to be interested in becoming more informed about bitcion from RVF member contributions, there is another more basic and shorter RVF thread that describes some basic bitcoin aspects, which may be useful.

Hopefully, you will be able to read a little more on the topic or at least cite us some sources for the basis of your input in this thread.

(01-20-2015 02:31 PM)EuroSlumming Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 02:16 PM)1818Steve Wrote:  I did not read pages 2-80 of this thread, but I don't get bitcoin. It seems to me to be one step past fiat money in the WRONG direction. It exists only as blips on an electronic screen. Call me a Luddite, but I would invest in gold or silver before I would put money into bitcoin.

Pages 2-80 are pretty much JJG saying he has a feeling that it's going up whilst all the time it's been going down.

hahahaha...

Refer to my above post, yet Euroslumming, I think that your rendition of this thread is a bit exaggerated and does NOT reflect the content of those pages (2-80) very accurately (even though I began participating quite a bit in this thread beginning on page 18 and probably suggesting the price of bitcoin is going to go up somewhere later in the thread - and at several various points thereafter).

Yes it is true and no mystery that BTC prices have been going down, pretty much since about page 18 (with some ups and downs along the way, but mostly down). In any event there is more to bitcoin than my posts, or this thread or even the price performance of bitcoin since page 18 of this thread.

Surely, several of us who participate in this thread remain interested in bitcoin and substantive contributions to take place in this thread - even though BTC prices have been very depressing for a lot of people in the past several months and even worse when the in the past few months, BTC prices dipped into the $200s on more than one occasion and then even down to the mid-to-upper $100s for several days within the past week or so (and seems like we are NOT completely out of risk for BTC prices to continue to dip into the $100s), even though in about the past 5-6 days BTC prices have largely stayed above $200 but remaining in the lower $200s with a lot of BTC trade volume (seems to be record-breaking trade volume or at least near record-breaking volume on several of the exchanges) .

(01-20-2015 02:34 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 02:16 PM)1818Steve Wrote:  I did not read pages 2-80 of this thread, but I don't get bitcoin. It seems to me to be one step past fiat money in the WRONG direction. It exists only as blips on an electronic screen. Call me a Luddite, but I would invest in gold or silver before I would put money into bitcoin.

Surely, you have a right to express your opinion about bitcoin; however it sounds as if you are quite admittedly self-imposed ignorant about the topic of bitcoin, especially if you chosen NOT to read more than two pages of this thread. Additionally, you have not cited other sources for your knowledge.

In case you happen to be interested in becoming more informed about bitcion from RVF member contributions, there is another more basic and shorter RVF thread that describes some basic bitcoin aspects, which may be useful.

Hopefully, you will be able to read a little more on the topic or at least cite us some sources for the basis of your input in this thread.

Feel free to give me a short explanation of why this imaginary thing has any value. I have read a little about bitcoin and I don't get it, at all.

I understand that this imaginary "money" is mined by computers and it takes time to do it. It also takes time to mine gold and silver. I own some silver. I can put it in my hand. It is an industrial metal with many uses. I see how it has intrinsic value. It always has and probably always will.

Now, explain the advantages that bitcoin holds over silver or gold.

And it wasn't really necessary to point out that I have the right to express my opinion about bitcoin. Everyone knows that I have that right.

(01-20-2015 04:51 PM)1818Steve Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 02:34 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 02:16 PM)1818Steve Wrote:  I did not read pages 2-80 of this thread, but I don't get bitcoin. It seems to me to be one step past fiat money in the WRONG direction. It exists only as blips on an electronic screen. Call me a Luddite, but I would invest in gold or silver before I would put money into bitcoin.

Surely, you have a right to express your opinion about bitcoin; however it sounds as if you are quite admittedly self-imposed ignorant about the topic of bitcoin, especially if you chosen NOT to read more than two pages of this thread. Additionally, you have not cited other sources for your knowledge.

In case you happen to be interested in becoming more informed about bitcion from RVF member contributions, there is another more basic and shorter RVF thread that describes some basic bitcoin aspects, which may be useful.

Hopefully, you will be able to read a little more on the topic or at least cite us some sources for the basis of your input in this thread.

Feel free to give me a short explanation of why this imaginary thing has any value. I have read a little about bitcoin and I don't get it, at all.

In essence what you seem to be doing is frequently referred to as trolling. You first of all say that you have NOT read this thread, and then you ask questions to incite and/or put the burden on other members in this thread (and possibly me directly) to rebutt some of your statements, even though you admit that you have NOT read the thread... and in essence these topics have been batted back and forth quite a bit in this thread.

If you read the thread, and you still want to make various points, then at least you would be coming from an informed position and possibly be able to expressed your position in light of a variety of arguments and information that has already been batted about many times in this thread.

Anyone can chime in here.. but I will assert that bitcoin has value for a large variety of reasons, including but NOT limited to a storage of value, a money transfer system, and a public ledger.

(01-20-2015 04:51 PM)1818Steve Wrote:  I understand that this imaginary "money" is mined by computers and it takes time to do it. It also takes time to mine gold and silver. I own some silver. I can put it in my hand. It is an industrial metal with many uses. I see how it has intrinsic value. It always has and probably always will.

This sounds like one of those Peter Schiff type arguments that came up a few times in the thread. In this regard, things can have value by more than merely being tangible, and also based on if people are willing to pay for them, including potentially for some of the reasons I described in my above paragraph: "including but NOT limited to a storage of value, a money transfer system, and a public ledger."

(01-20-2015 04:51 PM)1818Steve Wrote:  Now, explain the advantages that bitcoin holds over silver or gold.

I don't know about all advantages of bitcoin over either silver or gold but portability seems to be one advantage, and the public ledger aspect seems to be another advantage and upside price potential seems to be even another benefit of bitcoin (even though off-set by potential risk)

(01-20-2015 04:51 PM)1818Steve Wrote:  And it wasn't really necessary to point out that I have the right to express my opinion about bitcoin. Everyone knows that I have that right.

I was trying to be courteous, while at the same time suggesting that you should probably read up before you go on stating strong opinions in your posts about something that you do NOT really seem to understand and you are asserting that you did NOT read the thread and you are NOT otherwise stating any sources or providing any meaningful rationale for your asserted positions.

(01-20-2015 09:39 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I was trying to be courteous, while at the same time suggesting that you should probably read up before you go on stating strong opinions in your posts about something that you do NOT really seem to understand and you are asserting that you did NOT read the thread and you are NOT otherwise stating any sources or providing any meaningful rationale for your asserted positions.

Seemed more like passive aggressive to me.

Stating that I don't get it is not a strong opinion. You seem to have a lot of emotion invested in this judging by your defensiveness on the subject.

Anyway, have fun "investing" in bitcoins.

(01-21-2015 01:15 AM)1818Steve Wrote:  

(01-20-2015 09:39 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I was trying to be courteous, while at the same time suggesting that you should probably read up before you go on stating strong opinions in your posts about something that you do NOT really seem to understand and you are asserting that you did NOT read the thread and you are NOT otherwise stating any sources or providing any meaningful rationale for your asserted positions.

Seemed more like passive aggressive to me.

Stating that I don't get it is not a strong opinion. You seem to have a lot of emotion invested in this judging by your defensiveness on the subject.

Anyway, have fun "investing" in bitcoins.

I don't consider my statements to you, 1818Steve, to be emotional - because I am merely suggesting that you back up your statements with more meat and/or read more of this thread in order to strive towards more topically meaningful contribution(s) in your posts..
Otherwise your posts, herein, merely seem to be unnecessarily combative, uninformed and/or bordering on trolling....

That's just my sense of it, and at this point, I feel little to no emotional involvement regarding your posts.

Regarding BTC price, NICE little bump upward today. We will see which way it goes this week? Any guesses? or bets?

I just bought some Bitcoin today so my guess is up. Anything can happen though.

JJG, are you holding for the long haul regardless of what's in the news? I was surprised you didn't sell anything when the Bitstamp news came out. It cost you a bundle I imagine.

(01-23-2015 06:53 PM)Paul B Wrote:  I just bought some Bitcoin today so my guess is up. Anything can happen though.

JJG, are you holding for the long haul regardless of what's in the news? I was surprised you didn't sell anything when the Bitstamp news came out. It cost you a bundle I imagine.

yeah, generally i am continuing to hold and to buy.

I think that sometimes when we hear the news, it is NOT always clear whether the market has already adjusted for the situation... So for me, it is NOT always clear that the price is going to continue to go down, even while it is continuing to go down. Accordingly, i generally do NOT sell.

(01-25-2015 02:22 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  yeah, generally i am continuing to hold and to buy.

I think that sometimes when we hear the news, it is NOT always clear whether the market has already adjusted for the situation... So for me, it is NOT always clear that the price is going to continue to go down, even while it is continuing to go down. Accordingly, i generally do NOT sell.

This coinbase countdown was rather embarrassing in my opinion.

I've been buying some with a portion of each paycheck as the price is being walked down in this bear market.

People who bought in at the November bubble and the upper 100's with dreams of getting rich quick have to capitulate for a bottom to be put in. Market sentiment has to change and this will take its own sweet time, I anticipate that the next major growth spurt could take 5-6 years to build up.

I'm mentally prepared for the wait, and also for the possibility for Bitcoin to fail.

My last post here was on page number 50, just checked in bitcoin price at 220$, and wondering who actually is in profit since the beginning of the thread?

Guys, the price is going down and is going to continue going down, I sold at $700. There will be some upswings in the short term but overall the coin is dead. I think buying in around $50-$70 would be a good amount for a short term gain.

But by all means keep burning your money

Nobody can predict the prices come on. Bitcoin is one wild animal. I prefer to just buy in at different prices and have it averaged down. I've bought Bitcoins in the $100s, $400s, $700s, $200s, in that chronological order, but I've also sold Bitcoins in the $300s, $800s, and even some at $1000s when they were up there. My last purchase was in my self-directed Roth IRA LLC where I bought ~20 in the $200s prices. If it goes down the $100's, I'll buy another batch.

If you dont think you or anyone can predict the price then why the are you placing money into it?

You may as well play roulette. You are caught in the hype bro..

I'm saying nobody can predict with 100% accuracy where the price is going. For example, you're shooting for $50-70. If you said something along the lines of "I believe there's a x% probability that the price will go down there," then I would take you more seriously. Unless you got a time machine, you can't say that, i.e., predict prices, with 100% certainty. Bitcoin has been around for 4-5 years, this isn't its first, but fourth bubble. The bubble before this hit $200 prices, before dropping to $60, and then shooting up for the most recent bubble to $1000. Yes, it could die, and I'm prepared for that, but a) I actually don't think that will happen, and b) I didn't put my life savings into it, but came in with a strategy I can work with.

40% chance it will drop to $50-$70 in next two years, 75% it will drop < $180 this year. I go on history/trends, perception of people's mindsets, bullish & bearishness.

I'm not prepared to place my money into something that 'could die' since I have no control over that outcome. Bought in once and made some good money but probably won't buy in again unless price is sweet. But hey that's me, go for it make it rain dollar bills and prove me wrong.

I like that analysis better. Do you believe that all crypto currencies are doomed? Because this invention can't be uninvented, and because Bitcoin is leading in 1st place by a wide margin, I think the probability of it failing completely or being replaced by a superior crypto is slim. If everybody was in it to make a quick buck like yourself then the crypto would have been long dead. But, I believe there are many people out there like myself who believe in the crypto not just to make a quick buck, but to also revolutionize finance as we know it. I'm enjoying the ride, and I'm gonna quote the Winklewi twins when asked if they had ever sold their bitcoins, "no, never. Spartans hold." I'm holding the bitcoin that I have for the long term. I even have some in my retirement portfolio (of which I can cash out at anytime). My point is that in 10-20 years if cryptos exists, they will be worth much much much more than today assuming critical mass adoption. Will Bitcoin be replaced is my only fear, but even if a more "superior","more VISA scalable" crypto emerges, given Bitcoins history, I think it will still remain in circulation, perhaps like a store of value currency with less velocity.

The alt coins suck, they wont replace bitcoin. I would say 80-90% of investors in alts are speculators with 10% of people holding onto the coin losing all their money. I have seen it happen so many times.

But what exactly is going to make the price rise? Why should a business add a new layer of risk and accept btc as payment when they already have a fully working bank account. What other value can btc provide? Answer is not much. Bitcoin is not google or apple, its currency.

As for the btc price going above $1k, that lasted less than two days, so either a whale came into the market at that point and manipulated the price or there was some good news that turned out fake is my guess.

I found the below linked articles to be very interesting in terms of various Bitcoin headlines, including getting a front-page acknowledgement in the wallstreet journal.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-...t-journal/


http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/03/02/wall-s...in-future/

(02-09-2015 06:26 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  My last post here was on page number 50, just checked in bitcoin price at 220$, and wondering who actually is in profit since the beginning of the thread?

Who cares? Are we running some kind of competition or contest to show who's right and who's NOT?

(02-10-2015 01:30 AM)Alche Wrote:  Guys, the price is going down and is going to continue going down, I sold at $700. There will be some upswings in the short term but overall the coin is dead. I think buying in around $50-$70 would be a good amount for a short term gain.

But by all means keep burning your money

Thanks for the friendly "advice," yet I believe Yolo largely responded to your nonsense with his comments regarding the difficulties that exist regarding predicting exact BTC price directions, unless someone happens to be some kind of whale (and even then such a whale may have some difficulties to sustain BTC price movements).

(02-10-2015 08:42 PM)Alche Wrote:  40% chance it will drop to $50-$70 in next two years, 75% it will drop < $180 this year. I go on history/trends, perception of people's mindsets, bullish & bearishness.

I'm not prepared to place my money into something that 'could die' since I have no control over that outcome. Bought in once and made some good money but probably won't buy in again unless price is sweet. But hey that's me, go for it make it rain dollar bills and prove me wrong.

It appears that these probability predictions are pulled out of the sky, even though there is some claims to understanding the BTC "history" and/or "trends." There is too much going on in bitcoin behind the scenes to base a prediction on some kind of history and/or trends without some deeper analysis. Additionally, bitcoin is quite different from a lot of different innovations, and accordingly, bitcoin is a paradigm shifter with considerable upside potential. Whether that considerable upside potential is realized or NOT has a lot to do with a variety of factors that are including but not limited to political, economic and technical as well as trends and history.

Regarding the perceptions of people and the market, those can change on a dime and it is NOT easy to measure perceptions because bitcoin is world-wide and there is a large amount of learning about bitcoin and new exposure. So, for example, some rinky-dink country or company or group of people could become extremely excited about bitcoin and begin to put a large portion of their assets into bitcoin, and if such a movement were to happen, then such a movement would have rippling effects throughout the bitcoin space and throughout the crypto-currency markets. Those kinds of movements are NOT easy to predict, and they could happen today or tomorrow or they may NOT happen for several years, if at all.


Regarding "proving you wrong," who cares. We do NOT need to compare our dick sizes or our predictive powers in regard to bitcoin because NONE of that is really that important. Hopefully, in the end, guys are able to participate in this thread in such a way in order to become better informed about bitcoin and the various bitcoin dynamics in order to make various choices regarding investing or NOT... or even choosing to short bitcoin at some point (since in the last year or so there have been added various vehicles to "short" BTC).

(02-10-2015 09:59 PM)yolo Wrote:  I like that analysis better.

hahahahahahaha, Yolo. You seem to be giving Alche too much benefit of the doubt to suggest that he is engaging in some kind of genuine analysis rather than just throwing out a bunch of random opinions that seem to border on trolling. Anyhow, there is NOTHING really wrong with being polite to guys, even if they seem to be somewhat out of touch with their commentary (referring to aspects of Alche's posts).

(02-11-2015 03:11 PM)Alche Wrote:  The alt coins suck, they wont replace bitcoin. I would say 80-90% of investors in alts are speculators with 10% of people holding onto the coin losing all their money. I have seen it happen so many times.

But what exactly is going to make the price rise? Why should a business add a new layer of risk and accept btc as payment when they already have a fully working bank account. What other value can btc provide? Answer is not much. Bitcoin is not google or apple, its currency.

As for the btc price going above $1k, that lasted less than two days, so either a whale came into the market at that point and manipulated the price or there was some good news that turned out fake is my guess.

From the above bolded comment "What other value can btc provide?," it appears that you have NOT read through this thread or other RVF bitcoin threads or otherwise become very informed about the various value aspects that BTC can provide. You are right that BTC is NOT Google or Apple; however, bitcoin is more than merely a "currency," also.

Been slowly selling .25btc weekly, at a profit

Exiting half my original stake (btc earned for goods/services being kept)

The reason why I'm selling is due to currency, my btc holdings have actually gone up due to the fact that the USD (which i sell my btc for) has been crazy strong past few months. Planning on a road trip thus building up the USD funds


Still bull/long on btc overall !