(08-16-2014 05:32 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Yes Jay it will stop 5 dollars short of my sell order and never go higher @ 680. I'm so bored with this crap. I might just sell off and buy some shit alt coin.

Maybe you will NOT want to sell your stash once BTC gets back into the upper $600s arena?

I know that all this BTC market manipulation and difficulties to predict price direction(s) is a painful process, especially when you seem to had been more into BTC because of the short-term ups and downs (to make money that way). and yep... we've been quite low for 5 months or more (I think that was when you bought in the mid $600s, which seemed a decent price at the time).

Surely, there are a lot more alt-coins out there now as compared with even 5 months ago that can provide similar kinds of excitement that BTC once had a couple of years ago, in terms of potential ups and downs that cause volatility and even potential for 10x gains.

I still remain skeptical of a lot of those alt coins, and I believe that it remains even more difficult to predict the pumping and dumping of the alts...... and surely bitcoin is likely going to see another price bubble within the next 6-12 months or so (maybe it will only be 2-5X), which after such next price bubble is likely going to cause a whole 'nother level of pumping and dumping opportunities (that are wall street manipulation related - which seem to be part of the cause for the current manipulation) - for you and for others who want to attempt to play the new volatility dynamics of BTC prices.

But Jay when alts move they move fast. We should pump and dump together as I said months ago buying up in small increments like a team of us guys here.

I sold my 1968 charger rt in 1987 do you know what's worth now? I sold about 10 66 to 68 911s and could be banking if I held but I'm bored and want some action or drink and buy on eBay me some vintage dirt bikes.

If you do some research we can pump some alt coins otherwise I'll guess

(08-16-2014 06:03 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  But Jay when alts move they move fast. We should pump and dump together as I said months ago buying up in small increments like a team of us guys here.

I sold my 1968 charger rt in 1987 do you know what's worth now? I sold about 10 66 to 68 911s and could be banking if I held but I'm bored and want some action or drink and buy on eBay me some vintage dirt bikes.

If you do some research we can pump some alt coins otherwise I'll guess

You seem to be trolling me to some extent.

(08-16-2014 06:06 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(08-16-2014 06:03 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  But Jay when alts move they move fast. We should pump and dump together as I said months ago buying up in small increments like a team of us guys here.

I sold my 1968 charger rt in 1987 do you know what's worth now? I sold about 10 66 to 68 911s and could be banking if I held but I'm bored and want some action or drink and buy on eBay me some vintage dirt bikes.

If you do some research we can pump some alt coins otherwise I'll guess

You seem to be trolling me to some extent.

I mean you do NOT seriously believe that we could get a bunch of RVFers together in an investment pool, when we frequently have difficulties agreeing whether the sky is blue?

(08-16-2014 06:06 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(08-16-2014 06:03 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  But Jay when alts move they move fast. We should pump and dump together as I said months ago buying up in small increments like a team of us guys here.

I sold my 1968 charger rt in 1987 do you know what's worth now? I sold about 10 66 to 68 911s and could be banking if I held but I'm bored and want some action or drink and buy on eBay me some vintage dirt bikes.

If you do some research we can pump some alt coins otherwise I'll guess

You seem to be trolling me to some extent.

No Jay my post was 100% honesty.

(08-16-2014 06:07 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(08-16-2014 06:06 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(08-16-2014 06:03 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  But Jay when alts move they move fast. We should pump and dump together as I said months ago buying up in small increments like a team of us guys here.

I sold my 1968 charger rt in 1987 do you know what's worth now? I sold about 10 66 to 68 911s and could be banking if I held but I'm bored and want some action or drink and buy on eBay me some vintage dirt bikes.

If you do some research we can pump some alt coins otherwise I'll guess

You seem to be trolling me to some extent.

No Jay my post was 100% honesty.

Well, it is true that you could make a lot of money if you know how to manipulate and pump and dump because some of those alt coin markets seem to be of a manageable size in that regard.. and some of that pump and dump seems to explain some of the BTC price movements.

Probably in BTC, you need to have $5 to $10 million to be a fairly effective as a BTC price manipulator - however, in the alt coin scene, you could probably get by on a lot less... even $500,000 would be decent in a lot of the crypto markets...

NONETHELESS, trading is NOT really my scene, even though in the last 8 months or so, I have been watching the BTC market, as if I am a day trader.. and probably, I having been spending more time watching BTC than is good for my own overall health.... or my personality inclinations.

Anyhow, there are likely some RVF guys who would be willing to pool funds with such purposes; however, I kind of think that such a pooling arrangement would need to be worked out with trust, and personally, I believe it is much better to work out such an arrangement with guys who you have met in person and with whom you feel comfortable with making delicate financial decisions.

Look at alt coins like nmc and the buys and sells. 10 k or less will work just fine if timed right

(08-16-2014 06:36 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Look at alt coins like nmc and the buys and sells. 10 k or less will work just fine if timed right

This could be a good idea for another thread... the pump and dump alt coin investment thread.

I personally am inclined to think that generation 2.0 coins would be better than the earlier coins, so such a scheme may take some study and consideration(s) regarding strategies and timing and which variables would be important to consider..

Yet, with mentioning NMC, you may be correct that even picking one or more of the coins that are listed on BTC-e could work for the purpose(s) that you are wanting to achieve (eg... quick profits).

Nice bounce back today.

Encouraging to see.

Quote: eg... quick profits

You have a problem with it?

(08-16-2014 07:11 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote: eg... quick profits

You have a problem with it?

I am just describing that "quick profits" as seeming to be one of the main goals in which you would be putting together such an investment group. That is just my reading. Your group could have any set of goals that you want, no?

I don't really know of anyone who is opposed to the idea of "quick profits" in and of itself, if one can spot various opportunities for such, including myself...

Otherwise, from our various back and forth posts in this thread, you probably already recall that my general philosophy and investment strategy does NOT really follow the pump and dump or timing and trading and all of that.. I have probably repeated this so much that it even makes me tired to say it again... hehehehe I do NOT judge other guys for wanting or attempting to accomplish those kinds of goals or engage in those kinds of investment practices - it's just NOT my style.

As you may recall, I tend to engage in a form of dollar cost averaging investment style and diversification of my investment portfolio.. and BTC happens to be one of many of my investments.. even though I see BTC as different, more risky, more volatile and more in need of monitoring than the other various quasi-liquid asset classes in which I invest.

A cheesy alt coin can X2 in 24 hours. Btc will not.

(08-16-2014 09:14 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  A cheesy alt coin can X2 in 24 hours. Btc will not.

It seems that we may be saying more or less a similar thing, but making our points in slightly different ways.

I agree with you that there can be considerable more short-term upside volatility with a large number of alt-coins, including 2x in a day, as you mentioned. However, there are so many of them that they have become almost a comedy.. 450 alt coins listed on coinmarketcap, and I am sure that there are other coins that are NOT listed on coinmarketcap. So, in essence, lots of ways to get rich or to get poor with those alt-coins, but yes, I understand your point would be to be strategic concerning which ones to hit and how to hit them.

I also agree with your general observation that BTC will NOT likely double in a day - however, as you notice I added the word "likely" because I remain of the point of view that it is NOT impossible for BTC to experience extreme, explosive and exponential growth in a very short period of time. Who knows whether it will happen, but in my current thinking, the developments around BTC creates considerable potential that there could be extreme, explosive and exponential growth in a very short period of time.

Yes, some RVF guys have conceded that they dabble in some alt coins, and even I concede that I hold small amounts of the seven BTC-e listed alt-coins - yet every single one of them have been extreme losers for me - even though there could have been a way to trade and finesse them a little more to make them more profitable.. ???

Anyway, I still consider, for my purposes, that BTC is the main man.

(08-16-2014 05:25 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 07:17 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 07:03 PM)username Wrote:  Bitcoin down to $497.01, I'm getting tempted to pick some up.

YEP.. seems like a pretty good idea to buy some... though you can NEVER really predict for sure about the direction of BTC prices in the short-term.

Currently, I am thinking that BTC prices will stay down through this weekend, and we may explore some lower prices over the weekend (possibly another $10 to $20 lower - but timing????), so you could buy some BTC at the current price and then potentially buy some more if it goes lower.. or you could just wait.. which could mean that you miss this current price, if the market happens to do the opposite... meaning goes UP^^^^^^^^^^^

It is funny how a guy may come to evolving conclusions... maybe based on amatueristic abilities to know what the market is doing?

I have been watching the BTC news and the markets fairly closely and regularly over the past several months... and...

Based on the current trade volume level.... Unless these dumps are based on imitation (fake) BTC, there do NOT seem to be enough coins out there to cause another revisit to the sub $500 arena in the near future (such as over the weekend), absent some further passage of time or some major FUD spreading (and credible FUD spreading seems unlikely at the moment).


And, I am saying this as the price seems to be falling at the moment...

So last night, we had prices go into the upper $480s, and then this morning (the last 9 hours or so), prices moving upwards to nearly $530, and currently, price has rushed back down to $517, as I type. Nonetheless, I am thinking that there is a pretty decent chance (maybe greater than 75%? Nothing seems certain in the BTC price-predicting world) that the price trajectory is upward...

By the way, this pisses me off a little bit about Coinbase running out of BTC at around midnight or so.. maybe when the price was fluctuating between $510 and $520, but we could see that it appeared that BTC prices would continue to go down in the short-term.

So about 5 hours have passed, and yep, BTC prices have plummeted to $490, at least short-term after about a 2,000BTC dump on Bitstamp.. and some other related dumps on other exchanges. Well, I was considering buying some more BTC again if the price went into the $400s, and that $490 would have been a pretty decent buy price.. anywhooooo, no such luck.

Accordingly, who know how long Coinbase will be without coins.. I am thinking worst case scenario would be Monday, but we may be out of these low points by then. Hopefully, you were able to buy some BTC on either Friday or Saturday, Username? Do you buy through Coinbase or do you use some other service?

This Rainbow Graph is very pretty to look at and to read, even though I get the sense that it is fairly selectively drawn... and I also get the sense that BTC prices are probably lower than the blue on the rainbow (in other words the rainbow colors should be shifted upward slightly or possibly the angle changed or even possibly that it should NOT be a completely straight line and curved somewhat... but I really do NOT know how to draw these kinds of graphs to make meaningful predictions....

In any event, some guys here may appreciate this depiction of the BTC price trendline.

http://i.imgur.com/cU6q7IT.png

I definitely see a pattern in that rainbow chart

Apparently, a quantity of Bitcoin, still to be determined, is projected to go to 70,000 residence of a whole country by text message with the cooperation of the government of Dominica on March 14, 2015 - with a Bitdrop party.

http://www.coindesk.com/70000-caribbean-...coin-2015/


This should be good for bitcoin, as long as they do NOT suffer from any technological or security glitches and people get the bitcoin.

The amount depends upon the amount of the fund raiser, and hopefully it can be a meaningful amount of at least .01BTC per person... the more the better. At today's prices .01 BTC is only $5, and I am just pulling this number out of my ass while considering that the amount per person will be a larger, still to be determined quantity.

(03-01-2014 12:01 AM)Generation21stCentury Wrote:  

(02-28-2014 08:11 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  So now that this Bitcoin fad is over, how much have you guys lost in all this fiasco? I was tempted at one point to get in on the action, but my gut feeling me told me this wouldn't last as it was just a fad. Sad to see it materializing.

This is the least informed opinion in this thread, and is ironically appended by a statement that gut feeling rather than solid research prompted a hesitancy to invest.

Bitcoin is showing exactly why it is an unstoppable force at this very moment. A large, established institution has failed about as badly as possible, and the price has taken a beating as a result. However, the technology itself is unaffected, the network is stronger than ever and it is still used for thousands or millions of transactions a day. There was no bail outs, no bail ins, no government to intervene, and a lot of depositors lost money. That's the pinnacle of free market capitalism, short term pain by loss of incompetent businesses to more capable alternatives. If only we could see the same thing sensibly permitted by a government.

Bitcoin was proclaimed dead in 2011 (see link), and yet look where we are today. The price fluctuates up and down, but awareness, adoption, infrastructure, mining and use never stop growing. As long as Bitcoin is not at 0 (which requires either a technical bug of catastrophic proportions, or the emergence of a far superior alternative) it is on track to be a world conqueror.

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/11/mf_bitcoin/

I hope VP does some more reading about Bitcoin and perhaps seizes the opportunity to invest, or if not is humble enough to admit his fault when history has run its course and shown him to be in error. I don't expect any longer than 6 months will be necessary to have observed a conclusive rebuttal. If Bitcoin goes to 0 instead, I will gladly admit my fault, but Bitcoin so far has a 100% success rate at defying disruption, dismissal or criticism, and it certainly isn't going to stop now.

Update pending: September 1st 2014.

Edit: For posterity, Bitcoin currently $543 USD on BTC-e, $562 on Bitstamp and $561 on Huobi.

I forgot about this, and have missed my self-imposed update by a couple of days so this will have to do.

Bitcoin
Heartbeat: Fine. Blockchain has been processing transactions non-stop for the last 6 months.
Price: Currently $474 USD on BTC-e. While down on the 'obituary' post, it's a long way from gone to nothing.
Adoption: Getting better every day. Six months ago there was no Newegg, Dish or Dell accepting Bitcoin. Australia has released official tax guidance on Bitcoin, and US has released some rather draconian 'draft' materials. What's for certain is that the legitimacy of Bitcoin in the eyes of the general public is growing very, very rapidly.

If nothing else, I hope that Vacancier Permanent decides he might have been a bit rash about calling Bitcoin's death, and perhaps even go beyond acknowledging his ignorance to correcting it.

Also, shoutout to Runson Magic for becoming the second ROK poster with a Bitcoin article!
http://www.returnofkings.com/41457/11-re...se-bitcoin

(09-03-2014 01:11 AM)Generation21stCentury Wrote:  

(03-01-2014 12:01 AM)Generation21stCentury Wrote:  

(02-28-2014 08:11 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  So now that this Bitcoin fad is over, how much have you guys lost in all this fiasco? I was tempted at one point to get in on the action, but my gut feeling me told me this wouldn't last as it was just a fad. Sad to see it materializing.

This is the least informed opinion in this thread, and is ironically appended by a statement that gut feeling rather than solid research prompted a hesitancy to invest.

Bitcoin is showing exactly why it is an unstoppable force at this very moment. A large, established institution has failed about as badly as possible, and the price has taken a beating as a result. However, the technology itself is unaffected, the network is stronger than ever and it is still used for thousands or millions of transactions a day. There was no bail outs, no bail ins, no government to intervene, and a lot of depositors lost money. That's the pinnacle of free market capitalism, short term pain by loss of incompetent businesses to more capable alternatives. If only we could see the same thing sensibly permitted by a government.

Bitcoin was proclaimed dead in 2011 (see link), and yet look where we are today. The price fluctuates up and down, but awareness, adoption, infrastructure, mining and use never stop growing. As long as Bitcoin is not at 0 (which requires either a technical bug of catastrophic proportions, or the emergence of a far superior alternative) it is on track to be a world conqueror.

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/11/mf_bitcoin/

I hope VP does some more reading about Bitcoin and perhaps seizes the opportunity to invest, or if not is humble enough to admit his fault when history has run its course and shown him to be in error. I don't expect any longer than 6 months will be necessary to have observed a conclusive rebuttal. If Bitcoin goes to 0 instead, I will gladly admit my fault, but Bitcoin so far has a 100% success rate at defying disruption, dismissal or criticism, and it certainly isn't going to stop now.

Update pending: September 1st 2014.

Edit: For posterity, Bitcoin currently $543 USD on BTC-e, $562 on Bitstamp and $561 on Huobi.

I forgot about this, and have missed my self-imposed update by a couple of days so this will have to do.

Bitcoin
Heartbeat: Fine. Blockchain has been processing transactions non-stop for the last 6 months.
Price: Currently $474 USD on BTC-e. While down on the 'obituary' post, it's a long way from gone to nothing.
Adoption: Getting better every day. Six months ago there was no Newegg, Dish or Dell accepting Bitcoin. Australia has released official tax guidance on Bitcoin, and US has released some rather draconian 'draft' materials. What's for certain is that the legitimacy of Bitcoin in the eyes of the general public is growing very, very rapidly.

If nothing else, I hope that Vacancier Permanent decides he might have been a bit rash about calling Bitcoin's death, and perhaps even go beyond acknowledging his ignorance to correcting it.

Also, shoutout to Runson Magic for becoming the second ROK poster with a Bitcoin article!
http://www.returnofkings.com/41457/11-re...se-bitcoin

Thanks for remembering to follow through with your February post. Six months seems to be a pretty long time in bitcoin land, even though BTC prices have been going through a pretty decent and lengthy stagnation period.

Likely NO one would have noticed whether you posted a day late or a week late or a month late or NOT at all, so long as BTC prices do NOT go shooting back up. ONCE the prices start shooting back up, attention will come back to BTC.

In other words, I am getting the sense that bitcoin is NOT going to be getting too much attention until prices go beyond $800 or so... and my working theory remains that once prices go past $850 we are inevitably inbound for another exponential growth period that will shoot the price up to the $3k to $5k arena, and it could overshoot those estimates - especially given the length of the stagnation.

Anyhow, a question remains regarding how long will it take BTC to return to $850? and then to thereafter shoot past the previous all time high (which is the current all time high at $1163-ish). In my current thinking, it could take at minimum a couple of weeks to get to the $850 region and at the outside of the expectations about 9 months. Sure, there even exists potential for such a price burst outside of my anticipated timeline expectations.

I continue to watch BTC prices and to accumulate BTC, and from time to time, I have run out of fiat when I wished that I was able to buy more BTC because the then price was lower than the price that i had recently bought.

Surely, one problem with a down trending market remains uncertainty regarding how far down BTC prices will go and for how long will they remain down.. and accordingly how long to wait in order to make the next purchase. Many of us who are holders and buyers of BTC, I believe, had formulated an opinion in June-ish or July-ish that it appeared that the downward BTC price trend had reversed.. and we were on our way back up.. especially since prices had gone all the way down to $350-ish but had stagnated in various places in the $400s and the $500s and it took some time to get back to the $680s - yet, it seems that we were wrong about the trend getting back into the bullish direction.

Being wrong about the direction of the BTC prices does NOT remove the facts that the BTC fundamentals remaining considerably solid with increased liquidation and adoption that seems to be increasing from such.. and quite a bit positive press and various larger ways for wallstreet types to incorporate large bitcoin trading.

Accordingly, accumulation seems to also be the thing that big (wallstreet type) players are doing while they are manipulating BTC prices downward. It does NOT seem to be in their interest to downwardly manipulate BTC into oblivion, as some of the most pessimistic regarding BTC seem to be asserting.. but even a lot of those who are making bearish comments about BTC are engaged in such comments because they also want to accumulate more BTC at lower prices and to increase their holdings.

I remain of the opinion that if you cannot beat them, join them and accumulate BTC while you still can because likely soon prices are going to go up and even the large whale manipulators are NOT going to be able to hold back the return of the upward BTC price trend, when (NOT if) it comes.

How does that saying go?

Once Is Chance, Twice is Coincidence, Third Time Is A Pattern

I think Bitcoin has already had 4 bubbles, once when it hit $3, second time it hit $30-$40, third time it hit $200+, and fourth time it hit $1100. Why not a 5th time or 6th or 7th? Only thing stopping BTC is a nasty bug discovered in the protocol or a miner takeover, no amount of government action can stop it, the animal has been let loose.

(09-04-2014 11:23 AM)yolo Wrote:  How does that saying go?

Once Is Chance, Twice is Coincidence, Third Time Is A Pattern

I think Bitcoin has already had 4 bubbles, once when it hit $3, second time it hit $30-$40, third time it hit $200+, and fourth time it hit $1100. Why not a 5th time or 6th or 7th? Only thing stopping BTC is a nasty bug discovered in the protocol or a miner takeover, no amount of government action can stop it, the animal has been let loose.

There are a few competing ideas, here, which seems to be part of the reasons why there is debate about whether BTC prices are going to continue to rise, and if they do what is going to be the intensity or likelihood for repetition of the previous intensity.

I personally get the sense that we are going to have at least one more 8x to 12x upward explosion (measuring from a $450 price point), and I believe that adoption potential of BTC could fairly easily allow for 3 more of similar kinds of explosive growths, and 5 or more explosive growths is NOT out of the question to transition into the best case scenario.

3 more explosive growths of approximately would bring BTC prices in line with world-wide gold market cap of approximately 6.5 trillion.

There are various proposals concerning the direction of the growth curve, concerning whether the curve begins to level off or if the curve continues in an exponentially upward direction. The exponential upward direction works under Metclaf's law for approximately the first half of the adoption rate of a networking technology.. then the question remains where is half way and who all is going to adopt BTC. Surely if it becomes like the mobile phone or the refrigerator or the microwave or the internet, then our measurement could be world-wide adoption.... and then another question would remain for which purposes would people use BTC ? As storage of value, as transmittal of value, as public ledger, as a form of currency, as a speculation instrument, and/or in some other potential capacities.

The upside potential remains very great, even though, as Yolo mentioned, there are a few potential threats that could cause severe and potentially irreversible damage to BTC...

One other possibility, that seems less likely, in my current thinking would be that bitcoin's growth becomes much less volatile and less manipulated with slow (rather than explosive) uptrends. I remain of the belief that BTC will remain volatile over the coming uptrends but less so as BTC increases in market cap. There will likely be a lot lower levels of volatility if BTC were to approach a market cap in the several trillion dollar arena.

^ And Jayjuan still will hold.

(09-04-2014 03:28 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  ^ And Jayjuan still will hold.

At this time, I don't recognize any reason NOT to hold..

Actually, I have been holding mostly since I started investing in BTC in November 2013; however, more accurately, I would describe my current BTC investment strategy as a form of buy and hold, and you?

In a fairly recent post, you mentioned that you were considering a plan to go into Alt cryptos, did you implement a variation of such a plan? or did you follow through?nnDid you find some guys to pool some money and to employ various alt coin pumps and dumps? If so, how is it working?

My various investment plans which include BTC as part of the overall portfolio are NOT only long term, but the BTC portion of my investment remains under ongoing monitoring by me.

Accordingly, if BTC fundamentals become negative, I will reconsider my short, medium and/or long term strategical involvement of BTC. At this point, the overwhelming fundamentals of BTC seem to be evolving much better than I had expected - therefore, I consider the current price to be a considerable value, and at the moment, even buying under $800 per BTC seems to be a fairly decent price to pay.

Yes, it seems that we will find out what you (El Mech) are going to do when BTC prices go above $680... and then maybe you can exit BTC at that time, especially, since currently you seem to be so bearish on BTC and BTC investments seem to make you nervous. Although, you seem to have been like that bearish for most, if NOT all, of 2014, yet I expect that you are NOT going to completely disappear from the BTC scene or this thread... because BTC seems to have stoked some kind of kindle within you. We will see?

No man I said you will hold no matter how high it goes. I got some physical coins sent to me by the mods at btc-e they make me want to but will sell off fast.

(09-04-2014 06:40 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  No man I said you will hold no matter how high it goes. I got some physical coins sent to me by the mods at btc-e they make me want to but will sell off fast.

At this point, I have a few prices in mind in which I will sell off some BTC, in order to begin to trade... so for example, I may sell 1% of my holdings if BTC prices rise 20% above my average buy price and I may sell an additional 3% if BTC prices rise 50% above my average BTC buy price. So far none of these sell (or trade) prices have triggered for me, because mostly my BTC portfolio has remained in the red for a large majority of the time that I have been investing. My plan forward with dollar cost averaging had allowed for these decreasing prices.

Anyhow, I may make certain adjustments to my selling plans depending upon my continued buying behavior (and averages) and the time horizon in which future BTC price changes take place.

In other words, I am NOT totally disinclined from selling parts or even all of my BTC portfolio - and my personality, so far, does NOT seem to fit very well with nearly all of the alt-coins (I am too suspicious); however, if I feel that there is some good potential in one or more of the alt currencies, I may consider moving some of my money in that direction.


By the way, I remain a little unclear about what sort of gifts BTC-e mods are bestowing upon you, and how those gifts would affect your BTC or alt-coin holding considerations.