(04-20-2014 10:27 PM)shanked Wrote:  Here is what one of their representatives said to my email.

Quote:Hi shanked,

MaidSafeCoin is an intermediate coin but is not intended to keep your coins safe. The reason for the intermediate coin is that MaidSafe will be running a test net initially and will potentially need to bring the network up and down during testing. An intermediate
coin is required as coins may be destroyed from time to time as the network is restarted. Once testing is complete and the full SAFE network is launched (with POR resource in place) all holders of MaidSafeCoin will exchange these for safecoin on a 1:1 ratio.
There is nothing to stop people speculating on the price of MaidSafeCoins, buying them at the start then selling them later, users will be able to trade these coins on the master xchange.

There are a few differences from other alt coins. The MaidSafe currency is backed entirely by data so that as more information is added to the network more coins are generated. This provides an incentivisation for users to provide their computing resources to the network, we can these people farmers (as opposed to miners). The currency is also different in that, when the full network is launched, it will be used on the SAFE network’s transaction mechanism (our version of the block chain) that enables immediate transaction confirmation and the ability to process millions of transcations per second. Our transaction mechanism is not chained and this means that users can only see the current and previous coin owners addresses rather than the fully available public ledger of bitcoin. In this way safecoins can be thought of as digital cash.

No problem answering your questions, that’s what we’re here for. Just let us know if you need anything else.

They've been working on this project for 8 years (before bitcoin was created), their career hiring looks to be very thorough and extensive and the idea behind it is quite amazing. The coin is used sort of like an IPO for shares to help them get this network online. Maidsafecoin will be an intermediate coin until safecoin is created and can be traded in the mean time. Decentralizing the internet should remove any middlemen from handling private information and keep your information safe by breaking it up with complex algorithms and storing it in different locations all over the world. That is how I understood it anyone is free to correct me.

The response really does NOT provide any assurance that the investment has potential to appreciate in value in any greater quantity or speed other than investing directly into bitcoins.

We could speculate on more than 200 other alt coins or various bitcoin related ventures, and some may go up way greater than bitcoin for the short term. From this cursory, information this maidsafecoin does NOT seem unique in the either its short term or long term offerings.

I will most likely be investing into this but that's just me I am a risk taker, I am young and I love it. There is a specific term for this type of mindset but I cannot remember it. The theory behind it is that you should take more risks when you are younger as they are more likely to pay off at some point and if they do your end money before you retire has the potential to be exponentially larger than if you were to just keep your money in a bank. As you get older it is better to take less and less risks as your life span is coming to a close.

Then again this could just be some massive scam where you send your bitcoins to the address and the guy that made the website gets super rich lol.

If the Safecoin is not pegged to the Bitcoin blockchain, it is not secure.

If it is not secure it cannot succeed.

Sidechains will render all these altcoins irrelevant.

Hell, they already are

this right here is an excellent article on Bitcoin and money/currencies in general

http://blog.oleganza.com/post/5412151641...-one-money

(04-21-2014 07:13 AM)shanked Wrote:  I will most likely be investing into this but that's just me I am a risk taker, I am young and I love it. There is a specific term for this type of mindset but I cannot remember it. The theory behind it is that you should take more risks when you are younger as they are more likely to pay off at some point and if they do your end money before you retire has the potential to be exponentially larger than if you were to just keep your money in a bank. As you get older it is better to take less and less risks as your life span is coming to a close.

Then again this could just be some massive scam where you send your bitcoins to the address and the guy that made the website gets super rich lol.

There is NOTHING wrong with taking additional risks when you are younger, and i think you described it correctly. The terms that are used are risk loving, risk averse and risk neutral.

I assure you that just investing in bitcoin is risky, and you can find plenty of risks by merely investing in bitcoin in a risky style by overallocating your "safe" percentages, or by investing in various aspects of the bitcoin infrastructure... including the maidensafe project.

Taking risk for the mere sake of taking risk, however, could potentially leave you in a very bad spot.. whether you are young or NOT.. and whether you are risk loving or NOT ... taking stupid risks and with out a vision is NOT a good thing at any age (and i am NOT saying that maidensafe is necessarily a stupid risk, but I still have NOT seen any real potential payout avenue - beyond mere speculation such as playing roulette - and the house wins if you play enough roulette - whether you are young or old).

Surely, you have to make these kinds of decisions for yourself, concerning probabilities of success, how to spend you financial and your time resources b/c there are a lot of competing entities that will be glad to potentially profit from your money.. and they may or may NOT have any kind of future meaningful pay out mechanism for their investors.... so they would be glad to take your money... without telling you that their plan is merely to take your money.

(04-21-2014 07:45 AM)brg444 Wrote:  If the Safecoin is not pegged to the Bitcoin blockchain, it is not secure.

If it is not secure it cannot succeed.

Sidechains will render all these altcoins irrelevant.

Hell, they already are

I get the sense that, as you, BRG444, indicated above, sidechains are the vehicle upon which all alt coins are irrelevant and will remain irrelevant - including some of the promising alts (such as ethereum) that offer innovative alternatives that bitocin is NOT capable of offering.

The sidechains have NOT been implemented into the bitcoin protocol, so there could be some troubles, here or there, with such implementation(s)... but that is a bridge to cross in the future..

There still may be a variety of profitable alt investments or even bitcoin infrastructure investments - that could be even more profitable than bitcoin. There will also remain a lot of difficulties in trying to pick out which one(s) have more or less payout potential - like daytrading, a large majority of people lose when they attempt such.... but some may get lucky or develop some technical analysis skills that cause them to outperform the vast majority of the pack.

I remain more comfortable with a vast majority of my crypto investment remaining directly in bitcoin... and if a decent payoff comes, I may diversify outside of bitcoin at a later date.. there will continue to be investment opportunities... especially for investors who properly prepare themselves for such later opportunities by recognizing current opportunities - especially that seem to be currently present in bitcoin.

Quote:If LTC was released before BTC and took off, everyone would be using LTC no problem. The only thing that matters here is liquidity, number of holders of money. If people are betting it is BTC with more hands, they send a signal to others about that by holding too. This moves all the “cryptoinvestments” into BTC in long term. If people see that LTC is gaining more hands, then everyone will converge on LTC. LTC and BTC cannot coexist together, it makes no economic sense both for miners (who want to invest 100% in the most valuable currency in long term) and for users (who want money only because it’s widely exchangable for many goods at any later dates).

Right now there’s a lot of excitement about Bitcoin and not many people understand economics. Some folks are lied to and “diversify” into altcoins, which gives them short-term bubble. But in years to come, when they see, that Bitcoin has bigger adoption, they’ll move their savings to BTC and then all altcoins will crash. Or for some mysterious reason BTC will not be viable and people jump to LTC en masse and abandon BTC.

http://blog.oleganza.com/post/6824606275...fraudulent

sums up well my opinion about alt coins

Fiatleak China going nuts. What does it mean?

(04-21-2014 11:03 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  Fiatleak China going nuts. What does it mean?

We have NOT really had any news or FUD for a week or so. Accordingly, I suspect that there could be some of these fairly meaningless attempts to move a little up or a little down within the $460 to $560 price range. I am NOT going to get excited about anything (absent news or FUD) unless BTC prices move outside of this range.... that's my personal stance at the moment.

Personally, I think that the longer BTC prices remain in the $460 to $560 range, the more likely the price is going to break upward, rather than downward - absent some meaningful News or some FUD.

Sometimes we will see market action occurring several hours before a news releases, which is a sign of some kind of insider trading - yet how are we, mere mortals, supposed to figure out these kinds of things?

For the next weeks/months we will probably keep going up imo with occasional smaller drops of course, I think we touched the bottom already. If we hit a bubble soon, then it is scary how closely the future booms and busts follow the past trends. If it happens again, then we can expect it to happen again again and over again. To the moon.

(04-21-2014 01:21 PM)strengthstudent Wrote:  For the next weeks/months we will probably keep going up imo with occasional smaller drops of course, I think we touched the bottom already. If we hit a bubble soon, then it is scary how closely the future booms and busts follow the past trends. If it happens again, then we can expect it to happen again again and over again. To the moon.

I fancy that the next one might just shoot us past da moon

@jayjuan those are not the terms. There are many articles that specifically talk about how age is an important factor in investing. Im not taking risk for the sake of it otherwise I would be using this money in a casino.

E.g. say I invest $5k now and lose it all. I have the rest of my life to recoup those loses. Also not ro mention when you are older earning alot more $5k is worth less than when you are a student.

(04-21-2014 05:55 PM)shanked Wrote:  @jayjuan those are not the terms. There are many articles that specifically talk about how age is an important factor in investing. Im not taking risk for the sake of it otherwise I would be using this money in a casino.

E.g. say I invest $5k now and lose it all. I have the rest of my life to recoup those loses. Also not ro mention when you are older earning alot more $5k is worth less than when you are a student.

I don't necessarily disagree with you or any of the points that you were making in your earlier post, and certainly, I have NO intention to put words in your mouth to suggest that you were saying something that you did NOT intend to say.

Ultimately, you need to decide for yourself the level of risk that you want to take regarding any of your investment(s) and the extent to which you believe that it is necessary to diversify the risks of your investment(s) (or to hedge against downside risks). The more you diversify your investments and the more you hedge, the less you will gain on the upside, if there happens to be an upside, and the less you would lose on the downside, if there happens to be a downside.

Certainly these are individual choices and calculations that each of us is living in a world with imperfect information, and some guys will go balls to the walls investing in only one asset, which could pay off in grand ways or lose in grand ways.

I do NOT participate in this RVF thread in order to judge anyone or to compete with any guy regarding investment choices.. or to show that I am right or making better or worse choices than any other guy. but instead to share information and experiences in which guys could profit from such sharing and likely are going to vary in their conclusions about how to proceed.

I was more risk seeking and risk loving in my younger years, and frequently I put myself into risky situations just for the story or just on the spur of the moment. Currently, I am in my 40s, so I have quite a few examples.. financial and/or other ways of engaging in risky behavior. I have experienced that there is some truth to both the ability to recover from decision failures and there is also some truth to inclinations that younger people will have towards willingness to take risks based on incomplete information. The payoffs for taking such risks will vary.

If I were given the opportunity to revisit some of my life activities, some of my decisions would change upon retrospect and some I would keep the same. We all know that the reality of the matter is that when a guy is in the heat of the moment, he only knows what he knows at that particular time and he has to decide based on the information that he has in front of him... and sometimes he needs to experience some matters for himself for the lesson(s) to sink in..

There is some truth that a guy may NOT want to be immobilized by indecision... the paralysis by analysis scenario.

I think that several of guys in this thread have given our assessment that we are of the belief that maidsafecoin does NOT seem to be a good kind of payoff projection that is in any way better than bitcoin. That assessment does NOT seem to be merely a product of differences in age...... or our unwillingness to take risk based on age, but the mere fact that we are wanting to have articulated a value proposition of some sort regarding maidsafecoin.

You may know something about that particular asset that we do NOT know or cannot recognize, or you may get lucky.. that is ultimately your choice to make..... whether its true or NOT, I would like to see some kind of articulation or description of a value proposition that convinces me that something is different from and/or potentially better than bitcoin, which I have NOT seen even any articulation of such potential value proposition concerning maidsafecoin.

(04-21-2014 05:55 PM)shanked Wrote:  @jayjuan those are not the terms. There are many articles that specifically talk about how age is an important factor in investing. Im not taking risk for the sake of it otherwise I would be using this money in a casino.

E.g. say I invest $5k now and lose it all. I have the rest of my life to recoup those loses. Also not ro mention when you are older earning alot more $5k is worth less than when you are a student.

mate,

the question is what is the best bang for your buck

and the answer is bitcoin.

They've almost sold out of MaidSafeCoins already.

(04-22-2014 01:21 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  They've almost sold out of MaidSafeCoins already.

and already there is talk of pump and dump scam

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/maid...2014/04/22

(04-22-2014 01:52 PM)brg444 Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:21 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  They've almost sold out of MaidSafeCoins already.

and already there is talk of pump and dump scam

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/maid...2014/04/22

The reason Mastercoins fall again is because they've sold out all Maidsafecoins....

Quote:Still in fast mode so forgive typo's and grammar

Well what a morning! I cannot think of any other with so much drama and excitement. We started a little late as we had to wait on a certain block appearing on the blockchain to start the whole thing off. That was bad enough. Then we got the block and pushed go on the websites.

We were all in the office ready to get involved and as soon as the site showed up some got in, others were stunned at the immediate influx of bitcoins. It was incredible, I had to go home to transfer mine, but was distracted for ages looking at the screen and wondering how all these people knew and how much belief there was. This seemed to hit home more than all the praise and good comments we get on line. This was peoples total belief and right there in front of me, surreal and very humbling.

We then seen the Mastercoin blockchain explode and this will initially amazing, then it was very fast. A mastercoin block explorer site showed the sale as sold out and that was then delight into shock.

This was due to the fact MSC holders just send to an issue address and MSAFE are automatically returned. BTC hodler though had to send to a BTC address where they are collected in the background and manually xferred to MSAFE. I was in shock, all those BTC inputs had not been processed, we are all shut out (all in the office to). That was not great.

I then was straight on to the Master protocol guys (also all nighter for them) and said is this all true, have we sold out in a couple of hours? We had not, in fact it was less than 50% (Still a huge amount).

Then I was outside thinking and thinking, what is happening this is too fast, the MSC holders are at great advantage and BTC supporters are going to be disadvantaged a lot. We cannot type quickly enough for this to even out. At this rate no BTC person will get in and they will miss out. We never seen this level of support coming.

I quite quickly decided that we would use all of the MSC loan fund we had been given for the sale and buy all the remaining MSAFE. Rather than manually doing a few steps in the background we would simply transfer the MSAFE to BTC holder on confirmation of any deposit. This removed a few steps.

We debated, is this fair, is everyone included etc. and realised, what about the bonus, the 40% sliding bonus for everyone, we cannot manually calculate that, it would be a nightmare. Then it came together, we buy all remaining MSAFE with the loan fund and everyone gets the bonus, regardless of when they get in. Then we are all in the same boat, the faster MSC people and the BTC people. It means we raise less, but more importantly for us it means the system level out and we are all on the same playing field. People know me and me search for equilibrium the whole time.

This is what we have done, it reduces the back office steps, ensures BTC backers are looked after and not squeezed out. MSC backers got in at almost equal footing as BTC (almost 50% / 50%) and we all win. The BTC goes ahead and the MSC people got in fast and made their purchase.

This is now amazing as BTC is pushing along nicely and people can be assured the panic is over and the sale is as fair as it can be. Many would argue MSC is not 50% of the coin base etc. but I think none of us realised how fast and furious this sale would be. It is unbelievable.

It means SAFE can go on strongly now, we can fund core dev, create Builders (the 10% dev pool part is unlikely to be allocated, instead the network will allocate these safecoin to Builders who produce apps people use etc.). The developer pods across the world who will compete with MaidSafe on core dev can be established and the network seeded. This is a pivotal moment for us all.

I hope all of you were as taken aback as we were, but not as shocked at trying to figure out a mechanism to include everyone.

So please bitcoin backers, take comfort, your orders are being processed and will be fine now. We did panic with the false reporting of a site etc. but it was a good warning, we need to make sure everyone is equally treated and looked after. So now we all get to become involved, we all get the ~40% bonus and many many more people and supporters are part of this project.

Thanks everyone and sorry for the frantic start, I hope it is calmer now and continues on it's strong footing.

We will publish the number of MSAFE remaining on safecoin.io and you will see this one the blockchain in our backers holding account (address to be published) on the blockchain. This will be simpler now and I must say again thanks to the Master Protocol team, they were just amazing and Craig Sellars in particular is a guy you want beside you when things move at this speed.

So BTC all the way now, until we post the sale is over on safecoin.io, at that time any BTC will be refunded back to the sending address.

Thanks again everyone, it's a pleasure to be part of this community, I cannot wait to get back to work though and get the network up and testnet 1 running.

David Irvine

But yeah it's stupid because they pegged Mastercoins to Bitcoins on a 0.2 ratio. However I guess it's the best solution they had since MadeSafeCoins are created through Mastercoins... So the other option would be to only use MSC... And that would create an even bigger pump than that we seen this last days. What that article is about is Mastercoin going from 0.09 to 0.17 and then back to 0.09.. Since people were buying Mastercoins to get a discount on the MaidSafeCoins. Then everyone didn't buy their MaidSafeCoins in time and dumped the Mastercoins again. Right now there been 4,700BTC bought into MaidSafeCoin (and a lot of Mastercoins) If all those 4,700BTC would first have to buy MSC and then MaidSafeCoins the MSC price would go mad... So that article is missing important points.

Will catch up on the last page in this thread tomorrow

(04-22-2014 01:52 PM)brg444 Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:21 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  They've almost sold out of MaidSafeCoins already.

and already there is talk of pump and dump scam

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/maid...2014/04/22

I find it difficult enough to keep up with all of the news, developments and FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) related to bitcoin, and even though several of the developments of various alternative crypto-currencies may be related to bitcoin, sometimes that relationship to bitcoin is a stretch.

Sometimes the pump and dump does blemish bitcoin.

Even though Bitcoin remains a risky investment in a variety of ways (b/c it is heavily manipulated, government regulation boundaries are uncertain and there remain various scandals), Bitcoin is going to be a much safer investment than any of these other cryptos b/c of its market cap size and because of the vast development around bitcoin.

Additionally, there remains considerable upside potential for bitcoin and its prices, so guys should NOT feel like they missed the investment opportunity boat with bitcoin, merely b/c there has already been a considerable amount of bitcoin price appreciation.

It may be better to have another thread concerning the discussion of alternate cryptos b/c we could get so side-tracked from our bitcoin discussions that we miss important bitcoin news and developments b/c we are talking about various thousands of pump and dump alt-cryptos?

(04-20-2014 12:28 AM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  The original title of this thread is kinda funny when your realise that bitcoin when up pretty much that percentage in just 4 days last week.

The original title of this thread and the history of bitcoin is very interesting b/c if a guy were on top of things and lucky and gutsy at the beginning of the thread, he could have made a killing in bitcoin investments.

At the beginning of the thread, 3/8/13, BTC prices were at $40 per BTC; however, the mere fact that BTC had gone up 60% in the previous month would have caused many guys on the forum to question whether BTC prices were then in a bubble - however, one month later, by 4/8/13, BTC prices went up to $266 - approximately 700% more than the price at the beginning of the thread.

Then the summer of 2013 saw BTC prices hovering in the $100 range (for about 5 months), and as we know, thereafter experienced a more than 10x increase between summer 2013 and December 2013 - with prices reaching $1,150.


More or less a decline in BTC prices has ensued since that December 2013 ATH, yet various positive news has also developed and continuing building of the BTC infrastructure and network..

In the last couple months declining BTC prices from early February $700-ish to currently hovering in the $500-ish territories with lows as far down as $339-ish - a couple of weeks ago.

Some of this price decline may have been due to Gox and China - both news and FUD... Yet, others may argue that the price decline was just a natural correction and consolidation that will allow for the next price explosion. In that regard, BTC prices had advanced quite higher than the trend line.

I am NOT sure about how to attribute such declines, yet I continue to expect another price explosion, at some point in the near future.

Even though, currently, I believe the trend line should easily justify having BTC prices between $750 and $850, I would NOT be surprised if we have to suffer some continued downward momentum or even relatively flat momentum for a few months before that seemingly inevitable upswing in prices continues.

Patience may be needed, and i believe that NOW would be a really great moment to be getting started in BTC investment(s), for those guys who happen to be on the fence about it. Part of the reason why NOW seems to be good is b/c of the price trendline, and that prices are below the trendline....

NOTE that opinions will vary as to where is the trendline and whether we are above it or below it...


Actually, if I were just starting out with $10k to invest in BTC, I would invest approximately half of that amount now, and wait and see... over the next weeks what BTC prices are going to do, but I would develop a plan in order that I could act within the bounds of the plan. If the market continues going down then I would continue to invest while the price is going down and to spread out the investment over the next couple of months - hoping to invest most at the lowest possible price.

On the other hand, if the market skyrockets up, then I would be prepared to front load more of my planned investment amount.. and I would consider trigger price amounts for that. Every guy has to come to his own conclusion about how to proceed.

I am sure that others here would treat $10k differently, and a guy doesn't need $10K to get started with his BTC investment(s).... he hehe... He can start with any amount - including $10 a month. Though I would recommend at least a few hundred for the initial starting amount, just to start with something that is somewhat more tangible. Buying a whole BTC would be great; however, I appreciate that sometimes it is NOT feasible to set aside money that you are willing to lose in the event of a total failure in the investment, which remains a real possibility with bitcoin or with any other risky investment.

@JayJuanGee good summary

I want to fuck around with BTC. I have ~10k in fluent assets to invest which is a good start. Where should I buy? Which BTC Exchange?
After the Mt. Gox crash, the reality hit hard that no one will bail out a trading place that has fucked up their business model.
I know I can store my BTC in my own wallet and dont need a exchange for that, but I'd like to have one reliable trading place.

(04-22-2014 04:59 PM)void Wrote:  I want to fuck around with BTC. I have ~10k in fluent assets to invest which is a good start. Where should I buy? Which BTC Exchange?
After the Mt. Gox crash, the reality hit hard that no one will bail out a trading place that has fucked up their business model.
I know I can store my BTC in my own wallet and dont need a exchange for that, but I'd like to have one reliable trading place.

$10k is a pretty decent amount to start with.

If you are in the USA, then a lot of people use Coinbase. It takes a little while to get your Coinbase account verified and everything in order that your buying limitations will be raised. I think that it takes a month to get to level 2 verification.

Some people do NOT want to use Coinbase b/c they do NOT want to verify and/or connect any of their BTC transactions with a bank account.

Otherwise you could go through Localbitcoin.com; however, it usually costs a bit more to buy BTC through Localbitcoin.com or there may be some inconvenience factors of setting up meetings with sellers to buy your BTC... but you could check out whether any of the sellers in your area are of interest to you. and compare prices.. some sellers will appear and disappear from the site, so the offerings may vary on any given day.

Also, if you meet a BTC seller through localbitcoins, the seller may be willing to give you a quantity discount.. possibly.. depending on which way the price is moving at the time of the transaction.

Personally, I would start out with a few small transactions to get used to the process; however, if you are afraid that the bitcoin spaceship is going to leave without you, then you may NOT want to fuck around with a bunch of small transactions.

That is up to you; however, there is some advantage to going through the buying process and getting the feel for shopping for bitcoins and safely moving bitcoins around. With bitcoins you have to be really careful that you do NOT send the bitcoins to the wrong address b/c the transaction is irreversible, so it would NOT be a good thing to learn any negative lessons with $10K worth of BTC, in my humble opinion.


Other guys here may have other suggestions...

(04-21-2014 07:13 AM)shanked Wrote:  I will most likely be investing into this but that's just me I am a risk taker, I am young and I love it. There is a specific term for this type of mindset but I cannot remember it. The theory behind it is that you should take more risks when you are younger as they are more likely to pay off at some point and if they do your end money before you retire has the potential to be exponentially larger than if you were to just keep your money in a bank. As you get older it is better to take less and less risks as your life span is coming to a close.

Then again this could just be some massive scam where you send your bitcoins to the address and the guy that made the website gets super rich lol.

Yepp I feel the same as you. I'm not playing with my lifesaving's, in the same way that I saw the chances of Bitcoin growing and becoming more valuable when I bought over a year ago I see the SAFE network's chances and potential today.

(04-21-2014 07:45 AM)brg444 Wrote:  If the Safecoin is not pegged to the Bitcoin blockchain, it is not secure.

If it is not secure it cannot succeed.

Sidechains will render all these altcoins irrelevant.

Hell, they already are

That's just bullshit. You don't know what you are talking about.

(04-21-2014 11:03 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  Fiatleak China going nuts. What does it mean?

As I understand it Fiatleak is just a site to see trading volume and that seems to make sens since the volume on Houbi was pretty high at the time you posted yesturday, according to bitcoinwisdom. Please correct me if I'm wrong and it's working in another way.

(04-21-2014 01:21 PM)strengthstudent Wrote:  For the next weeks/months we will probably keep going up imo with occasional smaller drops of course, I think we touched the bottom already. If we hit a bubble soon, then it is scary how closely the future booms and busts follow the past trends. If it happens again, then we can expect it to happen again again and over again. To the moon.

Yeah that drop down to $339 was so quick it's pretty clear we don't belong there.

(04-21-2014 08:15 PM)brg444 Wrote:  mate,

the question is what is the best bang for your buck

and the answer is bitcoin.

That might not at all be true. Bitcoin has been around for over five years now and already increased in price massively. We can go $500 - $5.000 - $50.000 - $500.000 but at some point those $ will be useless, and we will probably see other technology's increase faster that Bitcoin, ex from $0.000001 - $500. However the most risk free investment right now would be Bitcoin.

(04-22-2014 02:56 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I find it difficult enough to keep up with all of the news, developments and FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) related to bitcoin, and even though several of the developments of various alternative crypto-currencies may be related to bitcoin, sometimes that relationship to bitcoin is a stretch.

Sometimes the pump and dump does blemish bitcoin.

Even though Bitcoin remains a risky investment in a variety of ways (b/c it is heavily manipulated, government regulation boundaries are uncertain and there remain various scandals), Bitcoin is going to be a much safer investment than any of these other cryptos b/c of its market cap size and because of the vast development around bitcoin.

Additionally, there remains considerable upside potential for bitcoin and its prices, so guys should NOT feel like they missed the investment opportunity boat with bitcoin, merely b/c there has already been a considerable amount of bitcoin price appreciation.

It may be better to have another thread concerning the discussion of alternate cryptos b/c we could get so side-tracked from our bitcoin discussions that we miss important bitcoin news and developments b/c we are talking about various thousands of pump and dump alt-cryptos?

This is not a pump and dump, ignore brg444 and his FUD article.

Here is the official press release:
http://launch.it/launch/maidsafe-sells-6...five-hours
They've been working on this for EIGHT years and already got lot's funding already. If you try to understand what it's about you will see that it's not another bitcoin or litecoin clone but something completely new and innovative... Similar to what Bitcoin were five years ago. From the press release:

Quote:Upon the completion of this crowd-sale, the value of existing safecoins will be approximately $24 million, with the remaining 70 percent of a capped number (like Bitcoin) of safecoins to be “farmed” (analogous to mining, but created by contributing resources, such as storage space) by anyone who wishes to add value to the network.

$24 milion market cap would MaidSafeCoin on sixth place on the coinmarketcap right now. After forexample dogecoin witch isn't more than a joke. Undervalued IMO. Hoping to get my hands on a few more using Mastercoin, and I think it's possible too...

Also the Mastercoin guys is doing a "formal retrospective" on the problem that the article brg444 posted:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Oo8b...z6ahM/edit
Enough on that now.

IMO Bitcoin is one of the safest investments there is right now, what else to put the money in? Some stock stable stock that might give a small steady return every year. Or some risky stock that might fail. Or keep the money in fiat witch every day loses it's value since the paper prints just keep going. The only better investment I might see is metals as gold and silver. Now I'm not an economical expert or anything, but that's just my opinion.

(04-22-2014 04:59 PM)void Wrote:  I want to fuck around with BTC. I have ~10k in fluent assets to invest which is a good start. Where should I buy? Which BTC Exchange?
After the Mt. Gox crash, the reality hit hard that no one will bail out a trading place that has fucked up their business model.
I know I can store my BTC in my own wallet and dont need a exchange for that, but I'd like to have one reliable trading place.

If you are in Europe kraken.com is a safe option. They've had themself investigated and been reliable since day one with great costumer support and quick deposits and withdrawals, usually one day for me when using SEPA transfer.. Witch seems to be the best option to transfer money between EU-banks.
http://www.coindesk.com/krakens-audit-pr...s-reserve/

Another option is https://safello.com/ which got contracts whit lot's of European banks.

Bitstamp.com is another option which has been around since 2011. There might also be some local options for you, depending on where you are. It's much easier to trade Bitcoins today than it were a year or three years ago. MtGox failed but anyone who been following knew that them were risky and unreliable long long time ago.

So I bought in early 1hr30min after launch but not sure how to view the coins yet. Do I need to know my private key? :/

I am confident this is not a scam even though they really fucked up with the mastercoins causing them to be pumped and dumped within a few hours when they changed the rules and wouldn't receive them anymore. Either this was planned and they made a shitload of money of this or they are stupid for overlooking the discount you get when you buy with mastercoin.

(04-22-2014 07:02 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 02:56 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I find it difficult enough to keep up with all of the news, developments and FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) related to bitcoin, and even though several of the developments of various alternative crypto-currencies may be related to bitcoin, sometimes that relationship to bitcoin is a stretch.

Sometimes the pump and dump does blemish bitcoin.

Even though Bitcoin remains a risky investment in a variety of ways (b/c it is heavily manipulated, government regulation boundaries are uncertain and there remain various scandals), Bitcoin is going to be a much safer investment than any of these other cryptos b/c of its market cap size and because of the vast development around bitcoin.

Additionally, there remains considerable upside potential for bitcoin and its prices, so guys should NOT feel like they missed the investment opportunity boat with bitcoin, merely b/c there has already been a considerable amount of bitcoin price appreciation.

It may be better to have another thread concerning the discussion of alternate cryptos b/c we could get so side-tracked from our bitcoin discussions that we miss important bitcoin news and developments b/c we are talking about various thousands of pump and dump alt-cryptos?

This is not a pump and dump, ignore brg444 and his FUD article.

Here is the official press release:
http://launch.it/launch/maidsafe-sells-6...five-hours
They've been working on this for EIGHT years and already got lot's funding already. If you try to understand what it's about you will see that it's not another bitcoin or litecoin clone but something completely new and innovative... Similar to what Bitcoin were five years ago.

I realize that in earlier posts you had already described both maidensafe and mastercoin regarding how they relate to bitcoin and in some ways these ventures build upon the bitcoin protocol.

There may be various ways in which they are pegged to the success of bitcoin, and those factors can change over time or can affect whether and/or how much a guy chooses to invest in these technologies.

I keep making the mistake of lumping together various alt coins and bitcoin related investments, and I am NOT doing that on purpose. It just gets a little bit confusing for me to keep up with all the various ways to invest in crypto currency projects.. and some of them overlap with others and some relate to bitcoin more than others, that is for sure.

I doubt that BRG444 is being disingenuous in his having had shared the link to the article b/c there is a lot of conflicting information out there in the press. We know the same is true for bitcoin. It can take quite a long time to sort through the FUD and the NON-FUD to uncover the various sources that are more or less trustworthy.

So thanks for providing the link to the other article that you believe is more descriptive of the project, and surely guys here can come to their own determinations regarding when, if and/or how much to invest in any given project and the extent to which they feel that it is necessary to diversify the allocation(s) of their investments.

Each of us is probably aware that very good and potentially profitable crypto-currency investments could be overlooked, and getting into those investments on the ground floor could cause a guy to receive absolutely astronomical returns on his investment.

And, also guys can profit considerably from pump and dump or ponzi schemes, if he can time his investment in either a lucky or informed way.

Likely very profitable investments may be ones in which others do NOT recognize the value until later or ones in which you get very lucky with your timing.

(04-22-2014 07:02 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  IMO Bitcoin is one of the safest investments there is right now, what else to put the money in? Some stock stable stock that might give a small steady return every year. Or some risky stock that might fail. Or keep the money in fiat witch every day loses it's value since the paper prints just keep going. The only better investment I might see is metals as gold and silver. Now I'm not an economical expert or anything, but that's just my opinion.

It seems that we agree here.

Your above description goes to the question of diversification of resources, and to me, at this moment, bitcoin has much more potential than any of the precious metals or stocks that I know about, but any investment can have its potentials in different ways. Each of us will decide differently how to allocate our investments, and the extent to which we may choose various stocks or precious metals.

Some investment portfolios are going to do better than others, and there is NOTHING wrong with that. I applaud any guy who profits from making the right investments and times his investments well.

I repeat that it is my belief that, here in this thread, we should NOT feel compelled to try to compete with each other concerning the payoff, or lack thereof, that we may receive with any of our crypto currency related investment choices b/c it can become fairly stressful choosing how to allocate our resources and even more stressful when certain bets do NOT pay off.

Actually, nearly any investment in the crypto-currency sphere is going to receive a certain amount of manipulation, and some of that manipulation is going to cause erratic outcomes that may cause guys to lose considerably or to gain considerably, depending on the direction of the manipulation... Also, whether there is manipulation or NOT, some investments will pay off b/c the fundamentals of that investment are strong... and some of us are going to disagree about how much weight, if any, to give to various fundamentals.

(04-22-2014 07:02 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 07:45 AM)brg444 Wrote:  If the Safecoin is not pegged to the Bitcoin blockchain, it is not secure.

If it is not secure it cannot succeed.

Sidechains will render all these altcoins irrelevant.

Hell, they already are

That's just bullshit. You don't know what you are talking about.

lemme apologize for that. you are right that I didn't study Maidsafe enough and shouldn't have made that statement

I hated people doing that when discussing bitcoin too

(04-22-2014 07:40 PM)shanked Wrote:  So I bought in early 1hr30min after launch but not sure how to view the coins yet. Do I need to know my private key? :/

I am confident this is not a scam even though they really fucked up with the mastercoins causing them to be pumped and dumped within a few hours when they changed the rules and wouldn't receive them anymore. Either this was planned and they made a shitload of money of this or they are stupid for overlooking the discount you get when you buy with mastercoin.

I understand that you are going to be paying more attention to any investment that you actually made, so there may NOT be too many guys in this thread that are choosing to invest in maidsafecoin - however, do you know whether at some point the maidsafecoin will be listed on the coinmarket cap website? Mastercoin has been listed on that website for several months.