Post: #1

I have some relatives and friends who have dual citizenship with other countries. I've never pursued it, mostly because I don't feel comfortable traveling on a passport from a country I did not grow up on or live in for an extended period of time. To me, I'd feel like a poseur...I'd rather focus my energies on other things.

Am I wrong on this?

I am wondering if it is something worth pursuing, or just a lot of effort (getting birth certificates, documents, etc) for something that has cosmetic value only.

My question is:

1. Is this something worth doing?

2. If so, what are the ACTUAL, TANGIBLE benefits from getting another passport? I'm not talking about the feel-good value of having another passport. I'm talking about what actual, real benefit can be gained from getting one.

I'd like to hear stories or anecdotes from guys who have experience with this issue....

Post: #2

Well, many countries have a time period where you need to be out of country before you can come back.

If you have two passports, you do a quick border run and come back under the second passport. That is if both passports are good for that country.

We were just talking child support in another thread. In the US, they can take away your passport for back payments. You won't have to worry if you have a second one.

International banking is a nightmare for US citizens nowadays. It would be easier opening an overseas bank account with a second passport.

Post: #3

If you are from a first world country, it's not if you don't feel the need. For people from third world 'shitholes', such as me, it's eventually essential if you want to travel anywhere without 500 visas and hundred of dollars on fees, not to mention the airport harassment(personal top:8 hours for deodorant residue in the miami airport)

Post: #4

WorldWide:

So, you've found it to be worth it? I like the points you're bringing up. It might be a good idea to have it just for backup.

Now, when you travel to a country that requires a visa, you'd need to get visas for both passports, right? Would that mean double the expense?

Post: #5

I don't have to worry about child support, but something tells me that in the years ahead, the gov't is going to get more and more concerned about controlling people's movements.

Post: #6

I own some city apartments in another country that I have citizenship of. Two benefits: 1- I'm allowed to own properties and 2- less business tax (in this particular case).

Quote:Now, when you travel to a country that requires a visa, you'd need to get visas for both passports, right? Would that mean double the expense?

Nope just the visa for the passport you choose to use.

I imagine having a second passport is more useful for Americans with your gov being full of control freaks.

Post: #7

It's not just the actual passport, it's also the additional citizenship that can give other tangible benefits. The biggest benefits off the top of my head:

1) As others mentioned, you can travel visa-free to many countries on one passport but not on another. For example: having a passport from EU country allows you to live,work, or open business in most of the EU countries without a visa. Even American passport holders do not enjoy this privilege in the EU.

2) If you have an emergency situation and one country takes away your passport (for example, Eric Snowden's situation), you can still travel on your other passport.

3) Many countries do not allow extradition of their citizens to some or any other countries. Notable example being that France does not allow extradition of french citizens to the US. This is how Roman Polanski is able to live a playboy lifestyle in France for 3 decades after he has been indicted for some sort of statutory rape crime in California.

There are other benefits as well if you dig deeper.

Post: #8

(01-12-2014 08:12 PM)Technics Wrote:  2) If you have an emergency situation and one country takes away your passport (for example, Eric Snowden's situation), you can still travel on your other passport.

I'm sort of skeptical about how this much would help. Presumably the authorities know about both your passports (assuming you don't lie on visa applications and the like, since they do ask it there). So if you've done something to the point where your right to leave/enter a country is going to be restricted, then I imagine they'd also list your other passports in the same order that places the restriction.

Post: #9

It's a bit difficult to respond to your post because you don't specify which "authorities" you are referring to. Let me explain it this way:

Sovereign A has no authority to revoke your passport form Sovereign B. If you are traveling through Sovereign C and your passport from Sovereign A is revoked (as I mentioned in the Eric Snowden situation), then you can still obstensibly travel on your second travel document (i.e. your passport from Sovereign B).

Now of course, Sovereign A can try to bring pressure to bear on Sovereign B to take some action against a person, much like the U.S. often does with weaker countries, but this is a different issue. One might eventually be screwed by the passport from the weaker country being revoked due to pressure from the stronger sovereign, but before that would happen, at least one would have a prima facie ability to continue to travel internationally on the second travel document.

Another thing: "Authorities" do not necessarily know about all of your passports because many countries have treaties for visa-free travel, so you go in and out of a country without filling out any of the visa applications that you referred to in your post.

Example: Let's say you're a dual US and UAE citizen traveling in Germany. You enter Germany with your US passport as a tourist. There is no visa form to be filled out because Americans travel for up to 3 months in Germany with no visa requirement (only a stamp in the passport only if you are entering from outside the schengen zone). How would they know of your UAE passport that could be sitting in your bag right next to your American passport? The answer is they wouldn't.

Bottom line, it is still a quite valuable to have a second passport and citizenship to use for traveling.

(01-12-2014 10:25 PM)paninaro Wrote:  

(01-12-2014 08:12 PM)Technics Wrote:  2) If you have an emergency situation and one country takes away your passport (for example, Eric Snowden's situation), you can still travel on your other passport.

I'm sort of skeptical about how this much would help. Presumably the authorities know about both your passports (assuming you don't lie on visa applications and the like, since they do ask it there). So if you've done something to the point where your right to leave/enter a country is going to be restricted, then I imagine they'd also list your other passports in the same order that places the restriction.

Post: #10

I got this from an immigration law firm website. I hope it's correct. It's a list of countries that DO and DO NOT allow dual citizenship:

Dual Citizenships Allowed:

Australia, Barbados, Belgium, Bangladesh, Canada, Cyprus, United States, United Kingdom, Switzerland, South Korea, South Africa (requires permission) , Egypt(requires prior permission), Greece, France, Finland, Germany (requires prior permission), Iraq, Italy, Israel, Ireland, Hungary, Iceland, Sweden, Slovenia, Syria, Serbia, Armenia, Lebanon, Malta, Spain ( allows only with certain Latin american countries), Tonga, Phillipines, Sierra Leone, Sri Lanka (by retention), Pakistan (accepts only with 16 countries), Portual, Turkey (requires permission)

Dual Citizenships Not Allowed

Andorra, Austria, Azerbaijan ,Burma, Bahrain, Botswana, Japan, China ,Czech Republic, Denmark, Fiji,India,Indonesia, Ecuador, Estonia, Iran, Poland, Papua New Guinea, Brunei, Japan, Peru, Kuwait , Kenya, Kazakhstan, Chile, Kiribati, Poland, Korea, Kuwait, Denmark, Latvia,Singapore, Slovakia, Ecuador, Lithuania, Solomon Islands ,Fiji ,Malaysia, Mauritius, Netherlands, United Arab Emirates (UAE), Romania, Thailand, Mexico, Nepal, Venezuela, Norway, Zimbabwe, Mauritius, Myanmar, Nepal


Pakistan:
Pakistan allows dual citizenship only with the below countries
United Kingdom
Italy
France
Belgium
Iceland
Australia
New Zealand
Sweden
United States
Ireland
Netherlands
Switzerland
Canada
Egypt
Jordan
Syria


Spain
Allows dual citizenship with some Latin-American countries Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Peru and Uruguay, Andorra, Portugal, the Philippines and Equatorial Guinea.


If anyone has a link or links to the up-to-date, specific requirements for the countries that allow dual citizenship, please feel free to post it....

Post: #11

I read a story that always stuck in mind. A guy rented a vehicle in a foreign country. Something happened to the vehicle that resulted in a total loss. The author claimed that it was the fault of the car rental company, but I cannot remember the circumstances.

But this is the important part of the story: the car rental company demanded full payment for the vehicle and arranged for the police to confiscate his passport until he made full restitution for the vehicle. This is more common than you might think.

He simply used his second passport to hop on a bus to a neighboring country, where he then caught a plane home. While he had to replace his primary passport, it sure beat being held hostage until he paid for an automobile.

Post: #12

I'm a natural born citizen of the US and have an EU passport through parentage.

It's somewhat useful - I've used the EU passport to avoid visa requirements or to pay a lower visa fee. I also use it to take the quick line at EU airports. I've also used it in places where the US is not popular and political violence risk is elevated.

It's also a comfort to know I could live and work in EU countries if I wanted to.

In countries where the US influence is strong and there is a chance of being a victim of police corruption, I use the US passport, because I want the power and the presence of the USA behind me, civis romanus sum.

Post: #13

I have both a US and a German passport. Each can be useful in certain circumstances. Looking for an ESL job in Asia makes the former more practical, while traveling anywhere in the EU makes the latter more useful. Since I grew up in both countries, I don't feel like a posseur either way.

Post: #14

(01-12-2014 07:32 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  My question is:

1. Is this something worth doing?

2. If so, what are the ACTUAL, TANGIBLE benefits from getting another passport? I'm not talking about the feel-good value of having another passport. I'm talking about what actual, real benefit can be gained from getting one.

I'd like to hear stories or anecdotes from guys who have experience with this issue....

/thread-6575.h...t=passport

Post: #15

My questions are for (my fellow) Canadians

I'm Australian, and live in Australia, but am also Canadian by birthright and hold a Canadian citizenship.

Does Canadian citizenship give any advantages for someone who wishes to work in the US?

And also, what benefits do yo am I able to claim (scam?) due to my situation? Free dental? Free or heavily subsidised education? Welfare payments? Ok well in seriousness I don't need or want any of these enough to warrant even looking, but I was thinking, to have Saudi or Kuwaiti citizenship (for the citizens pension), whilst living it up elsewhere with a foreign passport in greener pastures would be good. Being paid off the backs of IRT slave labour whilst you sit on a beach somewhere, ahh to dream

Post: #16

(01-13-2014 04:49 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  In countries where the US influence is strong and there is a chance of being a victim of police corruption, I use the US passport, because I want the power and the presence of the USA behind me, civis romanus sum.

Made me think of this clip. Have patience gents, about 5 seconds in it makes sense.

Post: #17

(01-13-2014 10:16 AM)ASOT Wrote:  My questions are for (my fellow) Canadians

I'm Australian, and live in Australia, but am also Canadian by birthright and hold a Canadian citizenship.

Does Canadian citizenship give any advantages for someone who wishes to work in the US?

And also, what benefits do yo am I able to claim (scam?) due to my situation? Free dental? Free or heavily subsidised education? Welfare payments? Ok well in seriousness I don't need or want any of these enough to warrant even looking, but I was thinking, to have Saudi or Kuwaiti citizenship (for the citizens pension), whilst living it up elsewhere with a foreign passport in greener pastures would be good. Being paid off the backs of IRT slave labour whilst you sit on a beach somewhere, ahh to dream

Having a Canadian passport doesn't make it easier to work in the USA. There is however, a visa called J1 that allows Canadians to work in the USA under certain conditions.
As for Saudi, they don't give out citizenship. You have to be a Saudi, a friend of mine was born in the country but was not entitled for citizenship. I am sure Kuwait would be similar to Saudi and other countries in that region.

I am also a dual citizen and yes it is very helpful, considering one of the passports allows me to live and work in Europe.

Post: #18

(01-12-2014 11:09 PM)Technics Wrote:  It's a bit difficult to respond to your post because you don't specify which "authorities" you are referring to. Let me explain it this way:

Sovereign A has no authority to revoke your passport form Sovereign B. If you are traveling through Sovereign C and your passport from Sovereign A is revoked (as I mentioned in the Eric Snowden situation), then you can still obstensibly travel on your second travel document (i.e. your passport from Sovereign B).

Yeah I was intentionally vague since the OP didn't mention specific countries.

If a person has citizenship from A and B, then unless they applied for both at the same time, at least one will know about the other. For example, let's say you're a citizen of A and you apply for B citizenship. I assume on B's application form, they'll ask about your current citizenship.

So if later on, B wants to crack down on you, they can easily notify A (since they know about A from your form) about how you're a wanted man. Assuming A and B have a decent relationship, they'll cooperate.

What might be more difficult is the reverse scenario, where A cracks down, as they may not know about B (since you didn't have B when you got A passport).

But I think it all depends on what you did. If you broke the law and they've issued an Interpol warrant for your arrest, then it may not matter which passport you're using. They'll match you at the border exiting/entering based on full name and birthdate (then they can confirm on-site with biometric data).

I also would not be surprised if A and B are sharing information, especially when there is an arrest warrant involved. Or they may even be able to link the two passports based on something as simple as a frequent flyer number, if you've used the same FF # in the past, when traveling with each passport.

I realize the scenarios above are unlikely for most people -- you'd have to do something fairly serious to get an Interpol warrant issued. But I also don't think having a second passport makes it smooth sailing to flee authorities if you've broken the law. It's certainly going to be easier than if you have one passport, but I don't think it's worth the hassle to go through obtaining a second passport (assuming it's a hassle) just for that purpose. Keep in mind having a second citizenship may encompass certain responsibilities, like paying taxes to that country or serving in the military.

Post: #19

Too bad Baltic states do not allow.

I'm thinking US + Estonian could be useful. All access pass to US, the EU, and the FSU? I'd be all about that.

Do ukraine or Russia allow dual? I'd guess no...

Post: #20

(01-13-2014 01:05 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  Too bad Baltic states do not allow.

I'm thinking US + Estonian could be useful. All access pass to US, the EU, and the FSU? I'd be all about that.

Do ukraine or Russia allow dual? I'd guess no...

From what I know, Russia does not. The German-Russians I've met all had to decide when they came of age. Switzerland, on the other hand, does alllow for DC.

Post: #21

this reminds me of recent news of Malta offering citizenship for sale.
Getting passport of any EU country entitles passport holder to move, work and settle anywhere in EU bloc.

Post: #22

I'm aware that if you are young and have dual-citizenship in certain East Asian countries, if you go to the country, they will grab you and force you to do your mandatory military service.

lowbudgetballer

Post: #23

(01-13-2014 01:57 PM)KoolChampion Wrote:  this reminds me of recent news of Malta offering citizenship for sale.
Getting passport of any EU country entitles passport holder to move, work and settle anywhere in EU bloc.

If I only had 880K sitting around doing nothing

Post: #24

(01-13-2014 01:14 PM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  Switzerland, on the other hand, does allow for DC.

Switzerland is also one of the few nations that does not list "place of birth" on its passports, which can expose the fact of dual citizenship.

St. Kitts & Nevis is another one, if you have about $350,000 available for an economic citizenship.

Post: #25

(01-13-2014 02:04 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  I read a story that always stuck in mind. A guy rented a vehicle in a foreign country. Something happened to the vehicle that resulted in a total loss. The author claimed that it was the fault of the car rental company, but I cannot remember the circumstances.

But this is the important part of the story: the car rental company demanded full payment for the vehicle and arranged for the police to confiscate his passport until he made full restitution for the vehicle. This is more common than you might think.

He simply used his second passport to hop on a bus to a neighboring country, where he then caught a plane home. While he had to replace his primary passport, it sure beat being held hostage until he paid for an automobile.

This could only have been in the EU, because otherwise he'd have no stamp or record showing entry into the country on his other passport. That is a big no go in almost all countries. If you can't prove you entered the country legally - as in a stamp in your passport - then you are essentially an illegal alien in that country and would likely be detained.