Post: #26

(09-29-2013 07:23 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 01:29 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  Either you have to be really sharp so you can save six figures, or figure out some cush thing like owning a hotel so you're not subject to some aging Strong Independent Woman boss.

@ IKE : I agree with everything you said, and I would have liked to have made a lot of the same points that you made.

Nonetheless, I think you underestimated an amount that needs to be saved in order to have some freedom - or maybe it is just me, but I would think that about $500k of savings should be the minimum goal, and that is not going to give anyone any luxury life, but at least about a $2k a month of supplemental income.

The money-vs-free-time argument will never end, and there are only individual answers suited to each person's values. We're both right--with regard to what we each want out of life.

To illustrate with extreme cases--on one end of the spectrum you get guys who go on SS disability at 25 and ride the rails drunk most of the day the next 25-30 years until they die young from that life.

On the other extreme you have the guy who saves and saves and retires at 70, already too exhausted to even fuck willing Filipinas.

I'd rather be the railroad bum out of those two, but of course this is a false dichotomy.

Many people say bust ass and retire at 35-40, and that would be my second choice and a good one for most people I believe, but even that has drawbacks-- I was able to live a musician lifestyle in my 20s, and didn't work a full time job in my life until I was 33. Then I busted ass for about 17 years to get a minimal survival income.

That sits about right with me, there is no way to go back later in life to a lazy, job avoiding, guitar playing 20s-- I'm happy I did it. However, I am jealous of childhood friends who were more conservative, made money, had kids, etc. But I wouldn't do it myself.


You are right mathematically, but for me it boiled down to step down to part-time work at 55 with a barely adequate passive income augmented by intermittent work, or spend the last healthiest years ( 55-60) still working full time.

There's no question from my point of view-- I've never had a job I liked, whenever I was sitting somewhere being told what to do, I was clearly feeling "I wish I was somewhere else" every fucking moment. For me ( and I speak only for myself) a full time job is basically equivalent to suspended animation-- it is not living, it is a worthwhile life only for a specific period after which life will begin again.

If I had to work a full time job my whole life, I would rather not even be born. It is just like being a machine to someone like me.

Most people have far more tolerance of sitting somewhere for several years, sometimes even decades, to avoid any chance of poverty.

I don't know how old you are, but for someone into sex and music, there are always exceptions like weightlifter guy mentioned above, but for most people quality of life declines quite a lot after 50, and I've noticed it's even worse at 55. Casanova planned on ending his biography at 50, because he felt that his likfe was not enjoyable after that.

Most people don't tell you this stuff because they are ashamed in some way about getting old, or feel it's not worth it to tell you something depressing when there's little to be done about it except the obvious "live healthy" advice.

It would be insane to give the CombineMatrixFacewhore a single month I don't have to after 55.

Post: #27

(09-28-2013 06:27 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  How many of you older guys have looked into TRT and such, or are currently on it? Did you notice a big difference before and after?

I got tested when I was in the hideous, draining job I described above. Doc told me my levels were like an 80-year-old's at 50.

I got the drops that you rub into your inner forearm, and it seems I feel better , but it's hard to be objective because you don't really know how you'd feel without it.

I want to keep taking it because I seem to be better off than others my age. I have been FORCED to lower carbs a lot too due to slower metabolism. I eat about 1.5 lbs of protein powder ( casein/whey) a week hahha.

I don't like meat, if I didn't eat all that protein I could not do athletics-- I'd crave carbs so bad I'd stuff myself and again weight.

It's far easier to get on TRT than it was 5-10 years ago, it's pretty legit now, there's the Academy of Anti_Aging Medicine made up of legit MDs that don't see aging as some holy thing, but a shitty thing to be fought.

After all, natural again often means ending up as an incontinent prune-- what wants THAT?

Post: #28

(09-29-2013 10:03 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  I believe us in our 30's and 40's are in a unique position. We are the meat in a shit sanwich. On either side are useless generations.


Because of these two groups of brainiacs, we'll want to retire but be lingering around like Jesse Helms keeping the ship afloat.

So when you get up this morning gents take your vitamins, drink h2o, and hit the gym. Then go for a walk, and when passing by a Starbucks, flip off and mean mug the leeches of society sitting in there typing feminist, gay, hipster, democrat, yolo, and victim blogs on their Macs.

Yeah, you're a special group of snowflakes, so different from the 2000 generations of humans in the last 50k years.

Post: #29

(09-29-2013 01:44 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 05:28 AM)RawGod Wrote:  The testosterone decline due to age is not as steep as people think.

It averages about 1% per year from your baseline as a 30 year old, so a 30% drop by age 60. Individual youthful testosterone baselines vary by 400% or more, so that's a larger factor than the age-related decline. And don't forget that levels spike and drop by 20-50% during a normal day. There was a TED talk that showed a 20% spike by assuming body language "power positions" for 2 minutes. So do that before your date and you just reversed 20 years of decline.

It's not just possible but quite easy to maintain your youthful levels into late middle age with just natural lifestyle improvements. In fact, I had a study somewhere which showed that round 20% of people maintained or even increased their levels as they aged, and that was in the general population, not a group of lifestyle hackers or athletes.

So there may be some losses in vitality with age, but don't put it down to an inevitable and dramatic lowering of testosterone.

I am sorry but this is pure utter crap.

I don't care what this report claims because the truth is alot different. Most men will notice a fall off in their sex drive as they get older, your T levels will drop no matter how much you live a clean lifestyle. Saying that it is only 1% per year is trying to make it seem not so bad, but there is a more noticeable drop off than 1 %.

There are too many things in our "modern" world that are working against our Testosterone, bad food, technology, estrogen in the water, ugly women etc. If I were living in a tropical climate I am sure the 1% rule might apply, I know men in their 70's who are still fathering kids.

Although I am pretty fortunate to look youthful in my mid 40's, I need to be stimulated mentally/physically to achieve a raging hard-on. In my 20's it would take a small breeze and the bloody thing would not go down.

Yeah, there's no way I could fuck like I could in 20s or 30s in my 50s. it's totally different. The decline in Test might not be too bad, but there's a whole lot of systems that interact in vigor, which clearly declined for me.

Post: #30

Again, RawGod's post about average levels of test declines with age is completely correct. The declines purely as a function of age are not that big of a deal.

Is it true that for many men their libido and sexual avidity declines with age? Of course. The point is simply that this decline is far from inevitable, and is often fully or at least partly reversible with some lifestyle changes. Those changes are usually not made, so the decline continues and is taken for granted.

A funny thing about libido is that when it's not really there for a while one can feel like it could never come back in the same way. Then when it comes back it's like a light switch is turned on and one can't remember any other state. It's like certain kinds of pain, hard to imagine they could ever go away when present and hard to imagine they could ever be present when gone.

I've known older dudes who've stopped drinking and overeating and started lifting hard and spending time in the sun, and all of a sudden all they ever do is talk about pussy. This is reality. It's just that most people don't believe things could ever change for the better once they reach a certain age so they never bother to change their habits and find out.

Post: #31

(09-29-2013 05:09 PM)Steve9 Wrote:  What about the mental aspects? How much cognitive decline do you perceive? Do you still have the same mental quickness? Can you still do complex math, and computer coding?

Now I think you're trolling us. I like to break out some algorithms at bars to make the panties wet.

Post: #32

(09-29-2013 06:50 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 05:09 PM)Steve9 Wrote:  What about the mental aspects? How much cognitive decline do you perceive? Do you still have the same mental quickness? Can you still do complex math, and computer coding?

Now I think you're trolling us. I like to break out some algorithms at bars to make the panties wet.

I think this is a reasonable question. I believe math is one of the first things to decline, but it's early-- in your thirties. There's a quote from Einstein to that effect-- basically if you haven't made a contribution to math by (certain age) you won't be doing it.

The other day I tried to add a sequence of numbers declining by .5 to calculate a moving average. It was much, much harder than it would have been 20 years ago.

( 10 + 9.5 + 9 + 8.5 etc.)

Another more subtle aspect is that the mental workings ( I wouldn't exactly call them "thoughts") of an 18 or 20 year old girls now seem so primitive and boring that I cannot imagine sitting for a few hours and chatting with one, except with me humoring her. I'm figuring out how to get a Filipina wife and have her available but not around all the time, we'll drive each other insane.

But unless you are a professional front-line coder ( I was but I wasn't very good even in my early 30's) making money with 3D visualization/processing speed, this aspect of mental functioning is not very relevant to happiness at all.

Verbal ability ( not speed, but overall power of expression) keeps going up, for me into my 50s' simply because you have seen so much more in like and know what is eternal and what are fads much better.

I believe you really learn about adult behavior as an adult, let's say starting at 16 when you have to start competing or resources on your own-- so a 50 year old has been an adult for 34 years, and 26 year old for 10. That's why 26 year olds are so much smarter than us old guys.

Overall in artistic creativity which is where I focus my energies, my points of brilliance are not as high, but my ability to assemble larger works is much better because I have a deeper view of the panorama of life.

I didn't write any great songs until I was over 25, my best at maybe 33, and now I can assemble a rock opera that will really bee deeper and more fascinating than anything I could do at a younger age.

It's important to realize-- going just by what you see in front of you with all known material objects--we all disappear, completely and forever.

Post: #33

(09-29-2013 06:31 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  Again, RawGod's post about average levels of test declines with age is completely correct. The declines purely as a function of age are not that big of a deal.

No, it is incorrect and is in fact absolute nonsense.

A simple injection of 100 mg of test cyp/week brings an old man back up into the high-normal range of test levels. That's nor "roided out" range. That's a dose that will bring him up to above average levels or medium-high (but still within normal range).

There has never been a man who started taking test who didn't say, "Holy shit."

Neither of you have any personal experience with test injections and are just parroting ignorant doctors and scientists - who for many years said taking testosterone was dangerous and could kill you. That lie didn't work so now they say, "Oh, your T levels don't decline that much, anyway. Why take test? Grow old gracefully."

If you don't wanna take test, that's a personal choice.

But unless you've actually personally undergone TRT or have good friends who have, you cannot speak with any authority on it and in fact can only parrot the medical establishment's position.

Post: #34

(09-29-2013 07:44 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 06:31 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  Again, RawGod's post about average levels of test declines with age is completely correct. The declines purely as a function of age are not that big of a deal.

No, it is incorrect and is in fact absolute nonsense.

The 1% average decline with age is scientifically established. As I mentioned, this average varies a lot between individuals. There are a lot of 70 year olds with the same levels as when they were 20, or with reasonably youthful levels like 600-800, and as they don't behave like young men, clearly other factors than just total or free test levels play a big role in energy levels and libido.

And yes, I have tried TRT, and found it unnecessary so far. At 39, I have experienced some decline in libido, but so far it's been counteracted by a healthy lifestyle and sex with much younger women. I would regard TRT as a brute force mechanism which lifts testosterone levels in isolation, while age-related libido and health decline is much more complex. Still I would have no hesitation in injecting for life when I get older, if the benefits outweigh the costs.

Post: #35

(09-29-2013 05:47 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  The money-vs-free-time argument will never end, and there are only individual answers suited to each person's values. We're both right--with regard to what we each want out of life.

I agree with you here.

(09-29-2013 05:47 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  Many people say bust ass and retire at 35-40, and that would be my second choice and a good one for most people I believe, but even that has drawbacks-- I was able to live a musician lifestyle in my 20s, and didn't work a full time job in my life until I was 33. Then I busted ass for about 17 years to get a minimal survival income.

That sits about right with me, there is no way to go back later in life to a lazy, job avoiding, guitar playing 20s-- I'm happy I did it. However, I am jealous of childhood friends who were more conservative, made money, had kids, etc. But I wouldn't do it myself.

Sure these are life choices that may be informed by our circumstances and ambitions, and if you do not come from wealth, it may cause you to take a chance that does not pay off financially, but it was still the choice that you wanted to make and to live with based on the information that you then had available. There is nothing wrong with that, and we are each molded by our various kinds of life choices in the persons we are or become.

(09-29-2013 05:47 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  There's no question from my point of view-- I've never had a job I liked, whenever I was sitting somewhere being told what to do, I was clearly feeling "I wish I was somewhere else" every fucking moment. For me ( and I speak only for myself) a full time job is basically equivalent to suspended animation-- it is not living, it is a worthwhile life only for a specific period after which life will begin again.

If I had to work a full time job my whole life, I would rather not even be born. It is just like being a machine to someone like me.

Most people have far more tolerance of sitting somewhere for several years, sometimes even decades, to avoid any chance of poverty.

We each have different tolerance levels regarding this, and the dynamics of the workplace changes from generation to generation, and may also depend on your starting points. Sometimes we can learn toleration for something that we did not previously do and even appreciate some of these kinds of changes in our activities. To each his own, I suppose because sometimes some people will not find any appreciable value in adapting. I grew up in rural living and thought that I wanted outdoors and no desk-ridden type jobs, but it ended up that my thoughts changed as I entered the work force and as I looked at my options. I spent more than 20 years in student and office jobs.. which resulted in a lot of desk work, which I grew to like, which may not occur for other guys – and surely these kinds of changes in me have had benefits and costs… which ultimately I learned to appreciate and even to enjoy what positives I could find in the situation that I was in.

In no way would I consider such to be death… that seems to be a mental framework more than anything, and ultimately, I believe it is valuable to be able to adapt to our surroundings – however, yes, we have less need to do these kinds of adapting as we become older… and maybe even if we become financially independent – another reason to attempt to become financially independent (meaning having a passive income that is great enough to cover all costs in order you do not have to work if you do not want to).

(09-29-2013 05:47 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I don't know how old you are, but for someone into sex and music, there are always exceptions like weightlifter guy mentioned above, but for most people quality of life declines quite a lot after 50, and I've noticed it's even worse at 55. Casanova planned on ending his biography at 50, because he felt that his likfe was not enjoyable after that.

I’m in my early 40s; however, I had already noticed some slight declines in energy and sex drive since my mid-30s (let’s say about 10 years of declines and some did not become noticeable til later), and I try to stay positive in my thinking because I expect the declines will only get worse – even though I strive to maintain certain activities in my weekly-life to attempt to address energy and libido issues, including tweaking my activities related to stress, diet, exercise and sleep.

(09-29-2013 05:47 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  Most people don't tell you this stuff because they are ashamed in some way about getting old, or feel it's not worth it to tell you something depressing when there's little to be done about it except the obvious "live healthy" advice.

It surely is good to hear various perspectives about the aging effects on different people, and certainly, we know that all 60 year olds are not alike, and that is due to a variety of factors including some things that may not be completely controllable or even knowable.

(09-29-2013 07:44 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Neither of you have any personal experience with test injections and are just parroting ignorant doctors and scientists - who for many years said taking testosterone was dangerous and could kill you. That lie didn't work so now they say, "Oh, your T levels don't decline that much, anyway. Why take test? Grow old gracefully."

Also, personally, I am getting the sense that RawGod and LizOz are talking hypothetically rather than from experience – or at least any explanation of experience about the aging process is not very extrapolateable (word?) to the general public of RVF forum readers. Kind of pie in the sky about decline is no big deal and manageable etc. etc.

Nonetheless, I really do not believe that testosterone supplementation is a solution for all guys in their 40s and 50s and later or even a wide majority of guys in these age groups. Surely, there may be instances in which testosterone supplementation is good for some guys, and there may be some science to support that supplementation is good for some guys.. I have read some of these, and I remain unconvinced that testosterone supplements is a good solution or even that it should be amongst the first choices of solutions for lowering energy and/or lowering libido until maybe some more natural attempts have been attempted first. My sense is to go natural to the extent feasible with attempting to increase energy and sex drive to the extent possible with natural methods, and that is why sometimes it is discovered that the isolating of a supplement from its original source loses some of its measurable benefits. For example, if possible, it probably would be better to obtain omega 3s from eating fish rather than supplementing with oils or pills.. getting the good thing from the natural source is better for the body and to leave the body to do its own thing… the body is a complicated mechanism that can frequently adjust itself with natural solutions.

Also, I may be contradicting myself ; however, I am actually thinking that when I go to SEA in February, I am going to start to try out Cialis – and in that regard, I do not know if I am contradicting myself too much here… and some may say that a testosterone supplementation would be better than taking a drug. I may need to look into researching more into these possibilities in the coming months (or even the coming year), so maybe MikeCF, I will be coming around to your way of thinking.. not sure, yet…

(09-29-2013 09:49 PM)RawGod Wrote:  I would regard TRT as a brute force mechanism which lifts testosterone levels in isolation, while age-related libido and health decline is much more complex. Still I would have no hesitation in injecting for life when I get older, if the benefits outweigh the costs.

RawGod: I agree with this part of what you are saying – that declines in energy and sex drive is complex, and we should not necessarily rule out supplements and/or medications. However, I hear some of your characterizations of your own experience to be a bit too pie in the sky for my thinking and your depictions do not really account for some additional declines in energy and sex drive that may vary for guys in their 30s and beyond (and may or may not be perceptible to the guy experiencing some declines that are coming about slowly).

Post: #36

One good thing is, at 57, I can think: I'll be dead soon, who gives a fuck?

Things slow down for a man at my age, but I'm not unhappy that there are all kinds of women in their 40s and 50s, even late 30s who are available.

Post: #37

(09-29-2013 07:44 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 06:31 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  Again, RawGod's post about average levels of test declines with age is completely correct. The declines purely as a function of age are not that big of a deal.

No, it is incorrect and is in fact absolute nonsense.

A simple injection of 100 mg of test cyp/week brings an old man back up into the high-normal range of test levels. That's nor "roided out" range. That's a dose that will bring him up to above average levels or medium-high (but still within normal range).

I dont' understand the difference, if there is any, between the "bio-identical" ( That's what the sellers like to call it) testosterone drops I rub into my arm and the test "cyprionate" (sp?) you mention.

Is that different, or just the complete name for the prescription stuff I get? Will legit doctors prescribe that for anti-aging?

I am able to get the drops RX from regular GPs even in small towns now, there's lot's of 50-something guys on it now and I just bring the old bottle in and they refill it, but I have to get it from a "compounding pharmacy".

Post: #38

(09-29-2013 09:49 PM)RawGod Wrote:  And yes, I have tried TRT, and found it unnecessary so far

You "tried TRT," you say.

Gel or injection?

Dose?

Did you go through a doctor and self-adminisotry? If you went through a doctor, what were your blood levels measured at?

Most family physicians will only give our a test prescription when levels are below 300. Was your doctor more open-minded?

How long did you "try" it?

Was your natural levels shut down after "trying" TRT? If so, how did you restore your levels?

Methinks you're "exaggerating," but hey, maybe you're the 1 guy who took test, felt like he was 25 again, and said, "Nah, this shit ain't for me.."

Post: #39

(09-30-2013 01:13 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 09:49 PM)RawGod Wrote:  And yes, I have tried TRT, and found it unnecessary so far

Methinks you're "exaggerating," but hey, maybe you're the 1 guy who took test, felt like he was 25 again, and said, "Nah, this shit ain't for me.."

That's pretty close to the truth. I took a cream, felt some fairly strong effects, but in the end was more comfortable being natural and not in danger of shutting off my natural production. Keep in mind I'm in my late 30s and don't rule out using TRT at a later stage.

Anyway, a couple of guys have misread what I've written. I merely pointed out the scientific data on age-related T decline. It doesn't decline that much in healthy individuals. That's not to say that these same individuals don't experience decline in libido, sexual performance etc. I'm just talking about the testosterone numbers.

As I'm repeating myself, I won't do so again. Some of you guys have pretty poor reading comprehension. Maybe all the 'roids.

Post: #40

To every poster who contributed to this thread I want to say thank you. I am only in my late 20´s but hearing this shit is vital for my progression.

Post: #41

(09-30-2013 01:42 AM)RawGod Wrote:  As I'm repeating myself, I won't do so again. Some of you guys have pretty poor reading comprehension. Maybe all the 'roids.

I gotta like your evasiveness in NOT answering the question, so I really enjoyed that, even though you still did not really answer.

Certainly, sometimes it would be a lot easier to kick the shit around with guys in person and over a few beers, rather than writing it all out and not really knowing all of the audience b/c sometimes writing it out can cause misunderstandings.

I do appreciate reading about different experiences, and I am thinking about the right questions to ask and when to take various supplements and/or drugs... b/c of my own personal decline (which is feeling significant but not major at this time).

If a guy is in his 40s and getting girlfriends in her 20s, those girls may have way more sex drive and ability to perform on a repeated basis, and in those instances I would like to keep up with those young girls. I already experienced some large age differences like that with girls and perceptions that the girl has a lot of energy, and I am not quite wearing her out, as I had done in the past, and i can imagine when I travel to SEA I am going to be experiencing more of these kinds of large age gaps.. and I am going to want to perform in those situations... so I am going to be looking into what exactly to do about that.... and in that regard, it is good to hear about guys who have experienced such age differences and maybe on a repeated basis, rather than hypotheses about experiencing such or hypothesis about there not being any or much of a decline.

And, we are also luck on this RVF forum to be able to bat around such ideas, whereby many travel forums will not really go into those kinds of discussions.

Post: #42

(09-30-2013 04:01 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(09-30-2013 01:42 AM)RawGod Wrote:  As I'm repeating myself, I won't do so again. Some of you guys have pretty poor reading comprehension. Maybe all the 'roids.

I gotta like your evasiveness in NOT answering the question, so I really enjoyed that, even though you still did not really answer.

Certainly, sometimes it would be a lot easier to kick the shit around with guys in person and over a few beers, rather than writing it all out and not really knowing all of the audience b/c sometimes writing it out can cause misunderstandings.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, as I'm sure it would indeed be different if we were having a beer together.

But you've offered me only snark ("I really enjoyed that" bullshit) and accused me of pie in the sky and evasiveness. I'm genuinely unclear on which if your questions I have failed to answer, and what this pie in the sky might be.

Post: #43

Raw God - MikeCF asked you some questions, which you did not reply too. Now you are becomng defensive and you choose to insult people because you simply don't know what you are talking about. Scientific data is what you are basing your opinion on where others like myself are speaking from "real" life experience.

I take Testosterone because it makes me feel better, the side effects are body fat reduction, better well being, strength and muscle mass increase, more energy, motivation, confidence and most importantly sex drive/libido (including recovery time). Doesn't seem like bad side effects when you compare that to Cialis/Viagra which I have never taken!

There is no way that a man in his 40's will have the sex drive of a 20 year old, nature doesn't work that way. If you choose to stay natural all the power to you but I will tell you getting old sucks. I don't want to get old gracefully, I want to fight it to the very end.

This weekend I went out on the town, inside the bar some chick grabbed my ass. At the end of the night another chick grabbed my chest and said my "boobs" were bigger than hers. I am sure this was no coincidence since I am halfway through a "cycle" now, that stuff doesn't happen to me on a regular basis. Pure and simple - women like muscles.

Post: #44

(09-30-2013 09:44 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Raw God - MikeCF asked you some questions, which you did not reply too. Now you are becomng defensive and you choose to insult people because you simply don't know what you are talking about. Scientific data is what you are basing your opinion on where others like myself are speaking from "real" life experience.

I take Testosterone because it makes me feel better, the side effects are body fat reduction, better well being, strength and muscle mass increase, more energy, motivation, confidence and most importantly sex drive/libido (including recovery time). Doesn't seem like bad side effects when you compare that to Cialis/Viagra which I have never taken!

There is no way that a man in his 40's will have the sex drive of a 20 year old, nature doesn't work that way. If you choose to stay natural all the power to you but I will tell you getting old sucks. I don't want to get old gracefully, I want to fight it to the very end.

This weekend I went out on the town, inside the bar some chick grabbed my ass. At the end of the night another chick grabbed my chest and said my "boobs" were bigger than hers. I am sure this was no coincidence since I am halfway through a "cycle" now, that stuff doesn't happen to me on a regular basis. Pure and simple - women like muscles.

again:

(09-30-2013 01:42 AM)RawGod Wrote:  a couple of guys have misread what I've written. I merely pointed out the scientific data on age-related T decline. It doesn't decline that much in healthy individuals. That's not to say that these same individuals don't experience decline in libido, sexual performance etc. I'm just talking about the testosterone numbers.

Post: #45

I always laugh when people say, "Science says."

That's sheep thinking.

I'm far more interested in what people have actually experienced.

Geeks in lab coats say a lot of stupid things.

Hell, they said for years that, "Steroids don't work." Look it up.

Then they said that, "Testosterone is dangerous." Look that up, too.

They also say, "Growing old is natural." As if we shouldn't fight it.

Meanwhile guys have been living better through chemistry.

Post: #46

The only thing that concerns me is the lifetime requirement once you go on. And the balls shrinking. Maybe you can cycle TRT as well?

Post: #47

(09-30-2013 12:34 PM)Menace Wrote:  The only thing that concerns me is the lifetime requirement once you go on. And the balls shrinking. Maybe you can cycle TRT as well?

Then don't go on. I'm just here to address misconceptions that harm men.

Like I told a guy on the forum who is a friend in real life, "Bro, I don't sell this stuff. Do what you want. Feel like shit if you want. It's your life."

You can take hcg for ball volume.

But honestly, I don't get the balls thing. My balls are huge. Know what that gets me?

It gets me a scrotum that is starting to hang down to my knees.

Just like a woman's breasts start to sag from gravity, so does a man's nut sack. It's gross and also makes sitting on the exercise bike a bit of a challenge.

And the balls only shrink by about 25% anyway.

Post: #48

(09-30-2013 01:42 AM)RawGod Wrote:  As I'm repeating myself, I won't do so again. Some of you guys have pretty poor reading comprehension. Maybe all the 'roids.

My reading comprehension was good enough to know the right questions to ask you to see if you had really run TRT.

You didn't answer my questions because they were a "check mate" and you knew it.

No need to start raging. You got caught making up something on the Internet.

We've all "exaggerated." Even me. I try really hard not to and have gotten far better with age, but the ego often forces us to engage in dishonesty to bolster a point.

It's a flaw all of us men share and we should work on ridding ourselves of it.

Post: #49

Do you guys take T even though your levels aren't that low? I've never had mine tested but my cock is hard every morning for at least an hour or two my entire life but I am more tired these days a little..

Post: #50

(09-30-2013 12:53 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Do you guys take T even though your levels aren't that low? I've never had mine tested but my cock is hard every morning for at least an hour or two my entire life but I am more tired these days a little..

Testosterone should not be a solution looking for a problem.

If everything is good, it's good. No need to mess with test.